Switching from spear tip to power-head?

[Glenn]

I'm planning to get a power-head this year, and I wanted to know what your procedure is when switching from spear tip to power-head. I normally Lok-Tite my spear tip to the shaft, but if you need to take it off under water and put a power-head in its place, that doesn't seem like a good idea. What's a guy to do when an 8 ft Bull wants your grouper?

[dothanfrogman]

I use a broke off shaft mounted to gun as a bang tip. I use a break away tip so I still have control of the gun.

[blue gun]

Big fish=powerhead..like winter and spring or whatever.
Small fish=spear..

I feel just as safe shooting a shark in the gills with a free shaft as I would a powerhead. at least you won't dud at a bad time.

Some guys on the board have sharks follow them all the time. don't dive with these guys:D

[Spear One]

Use a spinner tip that has a 5/16" thread instead of a rock point or tri cut. Then you can screw on your powerhead without having to remove the tip. You can use the "spinner" capability of the tip to assist in screwing on the powerhead instead of having to rotate the PH it's self. You can get a powerhead with a 5/16" thread instead of 6mm so you won't have to use an adaptor.

This should solve the problem for you!

[slipknot]

When I dive,I always go down with my powerhead first,but i keep a point in my armband where I keep my bullets. If I don't find anything big I will thread on the point and kill what I can.If you don't bring back some fish on the MORNINGWOOD ,you catch a rash of shit from the gallery.
THE ONLY GOOD FISH BOX,IS A FULL FISH BOX !

[greyface]

Right after Spear One's seminar last Sat., he fixed me up with the spear tip he just described. It takes much less time to switch between the tip/ph, than to switch shafts, like my old set up. Now, I'm wondering where I should store the ph, (armband or bc pocket) & should it be loaded (w/ the safety pin in) beforehand. I'm kinda leery of having a loaded ph in a bc pocket. :eek:

[slipknot]

I take the bullet out before storage. HELLO

[Spear One]

Tha problem with going down with the PH on and the speartip at the ready is, you run the risk of losing the tip somewhere in the transition. Assuming you don't lose it, when you screw it on, you cannot tighten it well enough to ensure that it will not come unscrewed during the dive. Therefore, opening up the opportunity to lose the tip.

If you must remove your tip in order to screw on your powerhead, you are wasting valuable time and you will probably miss your opportunity, or "need" to use the PH because it simply took too long to make the transition.

If you decide you need to defend yourself from a shark that is already exhibiting "predatory bahavior", every second becomes precious. I don't want to have to take the time to remove a tip which I am likely to drop in my haste and nervousness, stow the tip, locate my PH, screw it on, possibly load it, well you get the picture!

By the time I do all that, one of my appendages may already be getting turned into "Shark Poop".

The ready made shafts we make like the Hybrid, Stinger, and Freeshaft, all have the 5/16" thread on the tip. We also have high quality spinner tips with the same thread. If you are going to rely on a PH as a common weapon in you arsenal, you need to make the transition as simple as possible!

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

[slipknot]

I'm really not worried about sharks,I rarely see them and hey,if it's your time,its your time.You are right spearone,but I don't enter the water worried about sharks.If the situation arises I can switch from point to loaded powerhead in 20 to 30 sec. if things go bad in between then I can always dry shaft him in the gills.I'm no expert,but shark attacks on divers are rare.Can anyone remember the last time they heard about a diver being attacked by a shark?I can't. Anyway,hunt 1st,fear later.

[Spear One]

I was just using the shark thing as an example! The same problems are created regardless of the prey.

If you can shoulder your gun, remove the speartip, stow that tip, locate and screw on your PH, load the PH, and reload the bands in 20 to 30 seconds..."You Are Da Man" in my book.

[slipknot]

I'm not arguing by any means,but I do switch from point to PH depending on fish availability.Just my 2cents,whatever that's worth?

[Spear One]

Slipknot, I am not busting your stones on this issue. If I have come across that, way I apologize! I view this more as a friendly exchange of ideas and equipment options.

Your views and opinions on this subject are just as valuable and respected as mine or any other member of Spearboard. That is what makes this place so great. There is no right or wrong way here. It is up to Glen, (the guy who started this topic) or any other member reading this thread, to glean whatever information he feels will benefit him personally.

I think the greatest benefit Spearboard offers is....
It makes us all better spearfisherman and brothers!

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by Spear One
I think the greatest benefit Spearboard offers is....
It makes us all better spearfisherman and brothers! You got that right, Kevin. That's what it's all about.

Now, you're being summoned to the "Working the Ledge" thread. :D

[kitefisherman]

I hesitate to get involved, but if you are carrying a powerhead primarily as a means of personal protection (not to shoot fish), isn't it just easier to carry a slip on PH and let it fly when the shark gets too close?

[Spear One]

My point exactly... KISS

The only downside to most "slip on" type PH's I have seen is, they don't fire reliably unless you strike the fish at, or very close to 90 degrees. Highly machined PH's will fire at angles as acute as 45 degrees.

PS,
Kitefisherman, never hesitate to get involved. In fact, if you don't get involved, this forum doesn't work!

[kitefisherman]

I once asked a similar question on a personal protection thread. Screen Name replied that I should do a "powerhead" search because the issue had been discussed at length before. I did the search and learned quite a lot about powerheads and inletsurf's unique sense of humor :D . Anyway, I recall a post (perhaps yours or Fret T's) explaining the reliability of a slip-on PH to be tied to the relationship of the width of the spearpoint shaft as it compared to the length of the shaft that inserted into the PH.

I primarily shoot a Hawaiian flopper so I have a lot of shaft in front of my barb. From what I could gather, I think that I shouldn't have much of a problem with the spear point impacting the primer of the .223 shell in my PH. Nevertheless, I look forward to discussing this in more depth with you when you come down this way for one of your seminars.

[Spear One]

Rogers on that!

[Hogwild]

The one thing that has not been mentioned that I have found to be the easiest is to have the PH cranked down on my spare shaft and the spear point on the main spear.

Since I use the SS spare shaft holder and primarily free shaft, it is just a few seconds to switch shafts and let the PH fly. The only downside is that if you lose your main spear at the beginning of your dive, you have to PH everything that swims by. :rolleyes:

[Spear One]

Damm I hate those MURPHY dives!

[greyface]

Hogwild, the system you describe, is the one I abandoned. Swapping shafts takes too much time, for me. Since I don't free shaft yet, unclipping/reclipping the line only added more precious time. To me, fiddling around with shaft holders, line clips, & bands, all the while trying to keep an eye (in my case, literally:p ) on the "prey" is nothing short of a nightmare! Just my 2 pennies

[Hogwild]

Greyface,

So what system do you use? :confused:

[Divin' fool]

I use the B&B stinger shaft with the 5/16 threads...simple to screw on the PH.
As far as putting on the PH before you go down.... seems like the biggest fish are seen in the first few minutes of the dive. I say go down with the PH on and unscrew if you are shooting at smaller fish. It's easier to unscrew when looking at smaller fish than trying to screw on in a hurry with a big fish watching your every move.

[Grande]

has anyone used a slip on PH, specifically a PPD made by Ray O. with a B&B 5/16 shaft. if so did you think it was reliable. I have one and havent shot it yet. it seems like you really need to jam it on the shaft to get the spear tip close to the primer. i also slipped it on a biller shaft which has a longer/more gradually sloping spear tip and it seemed like it would work better on that because the point was closer to the primer. hope you understood that. anyway, any thoughts, feelings, opinions?

[Marcus]

I've been spearfishing for a long time in the Tampa Bay waters and have never seen any other sharks besides nurse and 1 sand shark. I've had an 8' & 6' nurse rip the stringer of grouper and hogs from my weight belt while I was swimming along the bottom looking under the ledge, but that's about the closet encounter I've had. I'm new to this board and you guys have got me thinking a lot more about the man in the grey suit.:( Although it makes me wonder how many of you initally came here just because you wanted a forum to tell your shark story.
Nevertheless, I'm now in the market to buy a PH. I don't have any experience with them, but at first impressions the slip on seems to be the best solution to me, using a compatible spear tip on both my main spear and my spare. But, I was wondering if I've got a fish on my main shaft fighting, attracting a big aggresive shark that I don't notice until he has scoped out the scene and is ready to attack something, can I slip the PH onto my spare shaft, still in it's holder, and punch him with it, in order to set it off?



Intend to live forever - so far, so good...

[fizisition]

I gots me two of dem,both.223 I love them but the casing sticks
the advantage i noticed was weight they are so light it doesnt change the flight for a longer range shot, also they are so quick
to slip on I keep two of rays ph loaded in my bc pocket I dont worry to much about how far the tip is from the primer unless it would be a really off angle shot.but I have two on me at all times just in case I cant get the casing out,lost the other ph ,missed,or buddy needs a ph and you really dont want to give up yours.also they CAN NOT go off rolling around on the deck of a boat. My opinion is that they are safer then the mechanical style ph's

[Glenn]

Thanks all the suggestions. I'm shooting a Riffe, so free-shaft is not really an option. I like Spear One's idea of the threaded spinner tip and I'm going to check into that for sure. Thanks againg for the info.

[greyface]

Hogwild, sorry 'bout the confusion. My bad!:D I"ll be using Spearfishing Specialties spinner tip with the 5/16 threads. Easy on, easy off. My ph has 6mm threads, so I had to use the adapter they sell. Hope this clarifies things!

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by fizisition
I gots me two of dem,both.223 I love them but the casing sticks
the advantage i noticed was weight they are so light it doesnt change the flight for a longer range shot, also they are so quick
to slip on I keep two of rays ph loaded in my bc pocket I dont worry to much about how far the tip is from the primer unless it would be a really off angle shot.but I have two on me at all times just in case I cant get the casing out,lost the other ph ,missed,or buddy needs a ph and you really dont want to give up yours.also they CAN NOT go off rolling around on the deck of a boat. My opinion is that they are safer then the mechanical style ph's fizition, have you used them yet? Have they always gone off? I'm going to pick-up a couple and let loose on an amberjack or two, just to make sure I'm confident in them. Right now, I have the B&B.

By the way, the issue was touched on earlier, but not really discussed. When do you guys load your powerhead? When do you unload? Some guys pass loaded powerheads up to the boat, declaring "HOT!"

[Grande]

i would like to know the answer to marcus' question too. what if you put the PH on the spare shaft and jammed it into the shark.

[fizisition]

Originally posted by Scott
fizition, have you used them yet? Have they always gone off? I'm going to pick-up a couple and let loose on an amberjack or two, just to make sure I'm confident in them. Right now, I have the B&B.

By the way, the issue was touched on earlier, but not really discussed. When do you guys load your powerhead? When do you unload? Some guys pass loaded powerheads up to the boat, declaring "HOT!"

yes I have used them but have not shot any large fish with them but I am positive ray would not sell something that would not live up to our expectations there are some draw backs that Iv'e thought of, they are made of alum which will cause the casing to get stuck far more often I know it sounds stupid but heres my view the al stretches a little when fired so the casing tends to take the shape of the chamber thus is harder to remove.another thing it is a pro and a con is that the ph can separate from the shaft upon impact example if your mid water aj hunting it could fall
off then you would have to decend to retrieve it but if you are recreational hunting you will only need to shoot one aj anyway
the pro is that it's non mechanical,it's safer,it,s 1/5 the price,it never needs unloading just removed from your spear.a b&b would be best for comm applications but for the average rec guy like me ray's will work just fine.but I still need a little more testing
before I would say that it could be superior to the mechanical style ph's .

[fizisition]

Originally posted by Grande
i would like to know the answer to marcus' question too. what if you put the PH on the spare shaft and jammed it into the shark.

I would guess it would. The mech style ( I think)has a pressure threshold measured in pounds of force it needs to work.I think it's got to be pretty low so If you could match that same force manually it should work. just a guess though ,if any one has heard of a certain amount(in lbs.) that the ph's need please post
I'd really like to figure this scenario out before I piss the hell out of a shark.

[kitefisherman]

I have one of Ray's .223s. At the time I bought it, he told me to put a little silicon grease on the shell so that it would come out easier. I've never fired mine so I can't say that this will solve the problem for sure.

From what I've read on other threads here, you do not want to put a petroleum based lubricant on the shell because it will destroy the manufacturer's seal and water will be more likely to leak in.

[Grande]

what is the recoil like on a powerhead? For example, if i put my hand on the back of a spear and slammed it into a fish would it blow back through my hand?

[fishhunta]

that would certainly make you a darwin award candidate. please do not shoot a powerhead into a rock, into a wreck, or discharge it while your spear is still on your gun, unless you want to loose your hearing and possibly weed out the gene pool.

[Grande]

so the recoil is pretty strong? dont they some times go off when you fire the gun? before hitting anything i mean. what happens then?

[slipknot]

Scott, on your question about when to load a powerhead,when I get in the water, as I like to be a little negative,as I descend I will load my PH and then load my bands so when I hit bottom I am ready to shoot. Then after surface I will take the bullet out and stow in armband.No loaded powerheads come aboard the MORNINGWOOD. Too many things can go wrong on a boat,the last thing you need is a loaded PH.
Would'nt you agree FINANCIALADVISOR?;)

[blue gun]

Grande, i have had them go off before hitting anything and it just made the same old loud noise. the reason it went off was the spring was too weak to take the water pressure on the head. i now use beco medium spring. I have had dives where I shot everything but fish in the summer trying to get some fast fish. wrecks,rock,reef,concrete,sand. I even missed a shot in the sand and the spear landed on a ray i didn't even see burried in the sand. BOOOOOOOOM!!!!! OOPS!:D

[snook295]

I noticed when looking at the biller PHs that they recommend using blanks in 38/44/357 saying that it is the concussion that kills the fish not the bullet. I would think that might just piss off Mr. Grey suit. I've never been one to shoot blanks in the past not so sure I would even consider starting that now.:confused:

[kitefisherman]

Glad to see some more locals on the board

Check out last month's thread on the subject: http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=866&highlight=blanks

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by slipknot
Scott, on your question about when to load a powerhead,when I get in the water, as I like to be a little negative,as I descend I will load my PH and then load my bands so when I hit bottom I am ready to shoot. Then after surface I will take the bullet out and stow in armband.No loaded powerheads come aboard the MORNINGWOOD. Too many things can go wrong on a boat,the last thing you need is a loaded PH.
Would'nt you agree FINANCIALADVISOR?;) That sounds like about the safest way to handle things. I don't like hot powerheads coming up, and we don't allow it. Now if someone was followed to the boat by a shark, I could understand, and would expect to be told that it's hot.

[Marcus]

that would certainly make you a darwin award candidate. please do not shoot a powerhead into a rock, into a wreck, or discharge it while your spear is still on your gun, unless you want to loose your hearing and possibly weed out the gene pool.

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't a bangstick a PH mounted on the end of a non-powered steel shaft, meant to be jammed against something? If so, what would be the difference in using a PH in the manner I described? Not that using it in that way is my preferred method, but may be my only choice when trying to stay atop the food chain.


I intend to live forever - so far, so good...

[subdude]

This is a pic of the PH I use. It simply slips over the existing tip and the point of the tip becomes the firing pin. I keep it on the topside butt of my JBL Woody Magnum with a piece of inner tube. When I tore this one down I saw I forgot to seal it with nail polish and it corroded. I am also going to start keeping them in a zip lock or seal a meal type bag, I don’t think that will affect their use.

subdude

[dothanfrogman]

As for the bang stick I leave mine attached to the gun at all times. Thus being able to control recoil over the full length of the gun. Just my .02.

[Marcus]

As for the bang stick I leave mine attached to the gun at all times. Thus being able to control recoil over the full length of the gun. Just my .02.

Are you saying that you have used your PH while being attached to your spare spear shaft, while in spare shaft holder? Or, are you saying that you have a bangstick mounted to your gun?

[slipknot]

To me,there is really no reason to mess around with those homemade,or non reloadable powerheads.Just spend the 100$ and buy a BECO. A very simple and reliable design.They have 2 safetys,one threads on the firearm to prevent movement of the action,two is a safety pin which I don't even use because the thread on ring is more than sufficient.As I have been around firearms my whole life I am always conscious of a loaded weapon.Does anyone else use BECO? I don't remember anyone mentioning them before.

[CJENKINS867]

TO SlipKnot, I have two 12 beco bangsticks (one is on a 4.5 pole and the other one is on a 4 ft collasible pole along with the 444 bangstick. I have used a 12 ga bangstick while diving in Okinawa/1977. I was stationed at Kadena AFB. The 12 ga 3" magnum is very effective. I,m planning several dives in the area of the Pensacola, Fl area. I will advise anyone interested of the effects of the 444 bangstick. I have loaded the 444 shells with a 200 jhp at 2500 fps.

[slipknot]

Does that 444 kick some serious ass or what ? And what about the 12 gauge, how do you seal the shell ?I bet there would'nt be much range if shooting it. What did you shoot with the 444, and what kinda damage was inflicted? Details please:D