Our informed electorate

[Bill McIntyre]

Maybe we are doomed.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/19/poll-less-than-half-know-gop-won-the-house/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_politicalticker+(Blog:+Political+Ticker

[Marcus]

Maybe we are doomed.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/19/poll-less-than-half-know-gop-won-the-house/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rss/cnn_politicalticker+(Blog:+Political+Ticker

It is pretty sad, isn't it. I believe that schooling has to do with it mostly. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think the DOE wanted it that way. An ignorant populace is more easily herded.

[Bill McIntyre]

It is pretty sad, isn't it. I believe that schooling has to do with it mostly. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think the DOE wanted it that way. An ignorant populace is more easily herded.

And I'd be lying if I didn't say that you were full of shit. The Department of Education wasn't even established until 1979. It didn't have much control over the quality of education then, and it doesn't have much more now. If you want to say that the dumb population is intentional, then you have to blame it on collusion by 50 states and a lot more school districts.

But I agree that the level of ignorance is sad, whoever is to blame.

I ran into an example recently. I don't think the guy has time or inclination to read this Politics crap, and I hope he doesn't since I'm not out to embarrass him. But he is a very bright guy, hardworking and successful in his field, and one of the guys I most want on my boat. But when asked what movie I had seen, I told him it was "Fair Game" the Valerie Plame movie. That didn't ring a bell.

So I said that she was the covert CIA operative that the Bush administration outed. That didn't ring a bell.

So I said that the CIA sent her husband, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, to Niger to investigate rumors that Niger was selling yellowcake uranium to Saddam. He came back and reported that there was no way it could have happened. Then Bush, in the State of the Union message, said that we had good intelligence that an African country was selling yellowcake to Saddam, and this was a large part of his justification for invading Iraq. This pissed off Wilson so much that he went public and said that he was the source, and Bush was FOS. Still no glimmer of recognition of the story.

Then I said that the Administration outed Plame, saying she was "Fair Game" to get revenge on her husband and shut him up.

And then I told him that Cheney's Chief of Staff, Scooter Libby, was convicted of leaking information about Plame to the press and sentenced to prison, but had his conviction commuted by Bush. And that Cheney was pissed that Bush ddin't pardon him rather than just commute the sentence. My buddy had never heard of Scooter Libby.

I don't want to get into an argument here with someone who differs on the facts or Scooter's involvement. The point is that I thought this was a big deal. Whatever you opinion, I thought it was common knowledge that it happened, and was a central issue in our going to war with Iraq.

But my buddy has a young child, works hard at his job, and hasn't had the time to hear about this stuff. I can't really blame him, but on the other hand, if voters don't even follow this stuff, how do they decide their votes? Isn't it important to know whether we invaded Iraq on false pretenses?

[ocean_314]

And I'd be lying if I didn't say that you were full of shit. The Department of Education wasn't even established until 1979. It didn't have much control over the quality of education then, and it doesn't have much more now. If you want to say that the dumb population is intentional, then you have to blame it on collusion by 50 states and a lot more school districts.

But I agree that the level of ignorance is sad, whoever is to blame.

I ran into an example last Monday. I don't think the guy has time or inclination to read this Politics crap, and I hope he doesn't since I'm not out to embarrass him. But he is a very bright guy, hardworking and successful in his field, and one of the guys I most want on my boat. But while heading to the spot, he asked what movie I has been watching when his call went to voice mail on the previous day. I told it was "Fair Game" the Valerie Plame movie. That didn't ring a bell.

So I said that she was the covert CIA operative that the Bush administration outed. That didn't ring a bell.

So I said that the CIA sent her husband, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, to Niger to investigate rumors that Niger was selling yellowcake uranium to Saddam. He came back and reported that there was no way it could have happened. Then Bush, in the State of the Union message, said that we had good intelligence that an African country was selling yellowcake to Saddam, and this was a large part of his justification for invading Iraq. This pissed off Wilson so much that he went public and said that he was the source, and Bush was FOS. Still no glimmer of recognition of the story.

Then I said that the Administration outed Plame, saying she was "Fair Game" to get revenge on her husband and shut him up.

And then I told him that Cheney's Chief of Staff, Scooter Libby, was convicted of leaking information about Plame to the press and sentenced to prison, but had his conviction commuted by Bush. And that Cheney was pissed that Bush ddin't pardon him rather than just commute the sentence. My buddy had never heard of Scooter Libby.

I don't want to get into an argument here with someone who differs on the facts or Scooter's involvement. The point is that I thought this was a big deal. Whatever you opinion, I thought it was common knowledge that it happened, and was a central issue in our going to war with Iraq.

But my buddy has a young child, works hard at his job, and hasn't had the time to hear about this stuff. I can't really blame him, but on the other hand, if voters don't even follow this stuff, how do they decide their votes? Isn't it important to know whether we invaded Iraq on false pretenses?

More and more people are not deciding to vote because of the flat out lies of the left wing media.

Thank god there is now a source of honest news.

The NYT time reporter got busted for making up the whole story. It was a state department guy that accidently leaked the Plame story to a reporter; I forgot his name and then instantly realized what he had done and told his boss.

The flat out lies of the Democrats and the left wing media is what is turning off voters.

And the teachers unions are dumbing down our kids. They refuse to get rid of bad teachers and instead insist that our children are exposed to more and more crappy teachers that ruin a child's education.

[Bill McIntyre]

Depend on ocean for a spin to justify one of his few constant story lines- its the left wing media's fault.

Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State, is the name he can't think of. I'm not sure what story the NYT reporter made up, but Valerie Plame was indeed a CIA officer, her husband Ambassador Joe Wilson did indeed go to Niger and came back saying that there was nothing to the yellowcake story, Scooter Libby did say she was "fair game" in the attempt to silent Wilson, and she testified before a Congressional committee. Armitage admitted he was one source of the leak, but apparently there was enough evidence to convict Libby for his part.

But however ocean wants to spin it, the point is that it was big news-something important enough for voters to have heard about.

[Wayward Son]

it's hardly new. been like this longer than I've been alive.

hell, in 2008 the majority of democrats polled did not know that their party controlled the house & senate.

[ocean_314]

Depend on ocean for a spin to justify one of his few constant story lines- its the left wing media's fault.

Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State, is the name he can't think of. I'm not sure what story the NYT reporter made up, but Valerie Plame was indeed a CIA officer, her husband Ambassador Joe Wilson did indeed go to Niger and came back saying that there was nothing to the yellowcake story, Scooter Libby did say she was "fair game" in the attempt to silent Wilson, and she testified before a Congressional committee. Armitage admitted he was one source of the leak, but apparently there was enough evidence to convict Libby for his part.

But however ocean wants to spin it, the point is that it was big news-something important enough for voters to have heard about.

Bill you want to know why people don’t vote and used the Plame propaganda as an example.

I am telling why people don’t vote using Plame as an example. The lying press tells everyone one thing about the politicians only to be proved time and again to be lying about it.

This constant lying by the press is what is turning people off to voting and the political process.

To these people its all one big lie, they don’t know who to believe and trust and the results is that they withdraw from the entire political system.

Obama is a perfect example the left wing press made him look like god the savior and he turns out to be a useless empty suit that is destroying this country.

Another example of a big lie by the press and the Democrats is global warming. Its one lie after another and people are withdrawing from voting because of the lies.

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill you want to know why people don’t vote and used the Plame propaganda as an example.

Well actually, I didn't express any wonder about people not voting, but this isn't the first time you don't bother to read before spouting off. I expressed dismay at the lack of knowledge. Get the difference? I'm worried about people voting when they don't even know that the Republicans control the house now, or haven't heard of the yellowcake affair, no matter whether they believe Bush or Wilson.


Another example of a big lie by the press and the Democrats is global warming. Its one lie after another and people are withdrawing from voting because of the lies.

Good job. You didn't miss another chance to work global warming into an unrelated thread.

[ocean_314]

Well actually, I didn't express any wonder about people not voting, but this isn't the first time you don't bother to read before spouting off. I expressed dismay at the lack of knowledge. Get the difference? I'm worried about people voting when they don't even know that the Republicans control the house now, or haven't heard of the yellowcake affair, no matter whether they believe Bush or Wilson.




Good job. You didn't miss another chance to work global warming into an unrelated thread.

Bill the people are sick of the lies and don’t care or believe in what the media or government tells them. They don’t care anymore.

Those uniformed people who do vote do so because of their pocket book or religion is affected.

[Marcus]

And I'd be lying if I didn't say that you were full of shit. The Department of Education wasn't even established until 1979. It didn't have much control over the quality of education then, and it doesn't have much more now. If you want to say that the dumb population is intentional, then you have to blame it on collusion by 50 states and a lot more school districts.


I think you're full of shit too, Bill, but there's been more than one DOE insider that is saying America has been deliberately dumbed down. I know you've probably never heard of them/it because you only watch the MSM.
One has written a book about it. http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

[Bill McIntyre]

I think you're full of shit too, Bill, but there's been more than one DOE insider that is saying America has been deliberately dumbed down. I know you've probably never heard of them/it because you only watch the MSM.
One has written a book about it. http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

Have you read it? I just clicked on the link, and gave up skimming after I saw that the preface was longer than the average book and then I had to read an introcuction too. But it looked to me as if it was mentioning all sorts of movements in educational psychology and social trends. That may or may not be true, but its a long way from your statement that the DOE is deliberately dumbing down America to make the population easier to control.

BTW, when I did a search recently, I found that DOE actually stands for Department of Energy.

The agency's official acronym is ED (and not DOE, which refers to the United States Department of Energy). It is also often abbreviated informally as DoED.

But I've been making the same mistake.

[Alexrom1207]

I wonder what percentage knew there was such a thing as the House of Representatives....or the Senate, rather than just congress? And what percentage could tell you the difference between the two bodies if asked.

Civics is such an under-focused-on subject in schools. Few realize the importance of it.

[Alexrom1207]

More and more people are not deciding to vote because of the flat out lies of the left wing media.


I think people are just generally sick of the bs from all sides. Democrats and Republicans, they're all telling people the most bold faced lies and only the fools on either extreme believe them. The Republicans tell use they'll balance the budget, pay off the debt, and not cut social security or medicare--all without raising taxes. The Democrats tell us that they're going to cut spending.....but they don't. People are sick of being told things that are complete bs, so they figure "why waste the time voting for someone....he's not going to do any of the things he's saying anyway."

And by the way, Fox is a terrible source of news--they have a narrative and they stick to it....no matter what. When their constitutional specialist doesn't agree with their narrative--that the Arizona anti-immigration law did not violate federal preemption--they get someone else to talk about the law who does agree with them. Then their expert (I forget his name) ends up on another channel talking about it. They also hop all over the "200 million dollar a day" story without verification or even questioning the source or the logic of such a story, simply because it fits their narrative--we don't like Obama. No self respecting news organization would do that. Fox is as much news as the Da Vinci Code was history. Sure some of it is true at times, but the general point is to tell your audience a story that you know they will enjoy--and most importantly, keep listening to.
MSNBC is just as terrible.

CNN is the only decent source of news around. The BBC is pretty good also. And NPR (although clearly liberal as an organization) has more journalistic integrity than anyone.

[Marcus]

Have you read it?

No, I haven't. But I have viewed lengthy interviews of her. I posted this quite some time ago but the videos have since been pulled from youtube for copyright violations. http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=104189&highlight=Charlotte+Iserbyt

There are other videos available. YouTube - Time Out Productions Interviews Charlotte Iserbyt

[The Jig's Up!!!]

The great Medieval Scholar, English Literature Professor, Theologian, Fiction Writer, Ancient Language Linguist, Oxford Don and World War II Combat Veteran---Dr. C.S. Lewis was asked by a reporter for his thoughts on Marilyn Monroe during the height of her fame (or infamy).

Dr. Lewis responded (in all seriousness) "Who is Marilyn Monroe?"

The famed Victorian writer Thomas Carlyle was told by an ecstatic newspaper writer that the first Trans-Atlantic cable message had been received in England.

Carlyle responded, "Oh, and what was it that they said?"

What passes for news these days is a Lie. Whether Lindsey Lohan, Bush, Obama or the two wars in Southwest Asia they have used lies and crap to pacify and delude the American Public.

You are better off not "following" the daily lies spewed out by the NPRs, Foxes, NYTs, CNN etc. You are not going to hear or learn the truth--at least not until it is way way too late to take any action.

CNN, NYT, Fox etc. at least provide some entertainment.

The Hedge Fund Owners are in the Bahamas laughing their asses off at me, you and 99.999% of the American Public.

Watching the so-called "News" allows one to have the Illusion that you are keeping up with things. The "Real" stories of what is going on emerges years after the fact. In the meantime we are all left in our Wal-Mart lands of delusional and impotent thoughts.

Does anyone still believe that your vote actually matters? Enjoy the kool-aid or beer, the sit-coms and the pro wrestling, the viagra ads and the illusion/delusion that what the media tells you is the "way it is".

But, on a positive note--the Bread and Circuses do at least provide some distraction and escape for the masses and the prole.

Things are, in essence, the same for most of us as they were for the debauched peasants in Pieter Brueghel's famous "After the Wedding" painting.

The only time most people learn is with the proverbial "Road to Damascus experience" or a "Lee Atwater moment" or perhaps the Dr. Bernard Nathanson M.D. experience chronicled in the deeply moving "The Hand of God".