Guns, guns, guns!

[Spearo]

Ok spearmen, here's one for you.

I'm looking to replace my aging Biller.

I've shot a Riffe C3x. Powerful. And slow to reload, difficult to pull with the stock bands, plus, the stock tip sucks - no lockdown ring, so you have to run it through and then back to get a fish off. Not good for speed. But it has a hell of a lot of kinetic energy behind it when fired, so it'll penetrate well.

Looking at the JBL line, it appears that the "sawed off magnum XHD" has the same kind of claimed range as the Riffe, but it has a MUCH shorter shaft. To counterbalance that however, its going to be a lot faster to reload and easier to cock, since the pull is much shorter and the notches will be easily seen while loading on the hip. And I could rig it for freeshaft.

Its also a hell of a lot cheaper - under $200 at LP.

So anyone care to expound on the pros and cons of these choices? The only possible "gotcha" with the JBL is that its almost as long as the Riffe, so its "swing speed" is going to be similarly slow - the 38 special XHD is a lot shorter, but then you're "pulling blind" again....

Comments anyone?

[fishkilla]

short guns are easier to load but not by much. i'm so efficient with my 60inch biller free shaft that i can shoot and reload twice as fast as with my sawed off jbl line gun. short guns also won't give you the power you need to reach out and touch those big gags that stay off in the distance. the 60 inch gun i use has a 72inch shaft and when i want to stop a big fish from 20ft it's no problem. i don' t even think i've even figured out this guns full potential. remember spear guns are all physics. the bigger and heavier the shaft the more power needed to propel it. but the energy behind a 72inch shaft in flight far exceeds even a 48inch shaft. it's more difficult to load a bigger gun but once you get used to using it you will never go back to a short gun unless you are just picking fish off from under ledges.

[joens]

have you considered a SS gun.
Joens

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by Spearo
I've shot a Riffe C3x. Powerful. And slow to reload, difficult to pull with the stock bands, plus, the stock tip sucks - no lockdown ring, so you have to run it through and then back to get a fish off. Not good for speed. But it has a hell of a lot of kinetic energy behind it when fired, so it'll penetrate well.
That is exactly how I would describe a Riffe, too. I bought one from a board member, and bought a second one for dedicated line use (the Metal Tech 3). My SS Commercial goes everywhere with me, but I like the Riffe occassionally hunting wrecks. My God, the last two inches of pull on a Riffe with stock bands are brutal. For me, it's not a strength issue, it's a chronic problem with my right shoulder that has been operated on. From what I understand, these Bluewater California guys use their abdomen or chest to load a Riffe, thus getting the angle needed to make it easier. I would say the SS is about 50% easier to load. There are two possible solutions I am exploring:

1. Swith bands. I am going to try SS bands with the steel cable. A problem with the Riffe bands is that string can potentially fold when it hits the area that is supposed to catch it, making it necessary to pull back even further to drag it over the raised area of the shaft. The steel on the SS band won't fold, which, in theory, should result in the need to pull back less far.

2. Extend the butt of the gun. This would have to be fabricated, since Riffe does not make a butt extention.

I have an email in to Jullie Riffe right now, asking how they have handled this problem in the past.

[bubblejunkie]

Stick with the biller, or go with the SS you cant go wrong with either, whats wrong with the old biller?

[Kasshia]

I shoot a Riffe C3XS. I started out loading to the helper tab on my hip, then chest loading the rest of the way. Still do it that way sometimes, sometimes I hip load. Depends on how lazy I'm feeling :). I have found that by moving the butt of the gun down to my weight belt buckle saves me some bruises. #1 (10 yr old son) couldn't load his C2S with the stock bands, so I made him 3 1/2x26" bands to get him started. The bands I made him pull just over 51 lbs at the tabs.:)

The only problem I see with replacing the soft Riffe bridle with cable is on a wood gun the cable might eat up the wood on both sides of the track when the gun is fired :eek:. On a metal tech that wouldn't be a problem unless you've got the delrin track, but it might still take the finish off the aluminum :eek:. :)

[Spear One]

Hey Scott, Julie is probably gonna tell ya to hit the gym. She doesn't seem to have any problem loading the Riffe's. Have you seen the guns on that girl? She is a spearfishing machine!

[Steel Shootin']

I set myself up pretty good for that one. :D

Honestly, it's not a strength issue. I'm not the strongest guy in the world, but I can still bench over 200 #s. If Julie is benching over 200, then I'll wash her car and she can introduce me around the office as her "bitch of the day."

I have the following right shoulder injuries just confirmed by MRI: Torn right rotator cuff, bone spurs, and impingment syndrome. It's the movement of the last two inches of cocking that damn thing that kill the rotator cuff injury. I had the shoulder scoped surgically once, and now I'm told I need a second operation.

Now, since I'm such a puss for having difficulty cocking it, maybe I'll bring it to the restaurant tomorrow to see how you and the other guys do trying to cock it on your hip -- with your healthy shoulders! :D

[johnhermes]

Bla de bla bla bla torn rotator cuff blah blah blahMRI bla bla bla.....



:D

[Steel Shootin']

.

[johnhermes]

Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day Bitch of the Day !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[FredT]

Originally posted by Kasshia

The only problem I see with replacing the soft Riffe bridle with cable is on a wood gun the cable might eat up the wood on both sides of the track when the gun is fired

I have seen no problems with this if a moderatly flexible 7x19 cable is used. Oil Rig guns invariably have a cable rigging of one sort or another. Soft line lasts for two missed kill shots, at the most! The most popular models are all midhandles too. No Ka Oi with an extended Islander or Blue water shaft and 3/4" bands seems to be the most popular around here, with some low balling into the metal enclosed track tech guns.

FT

[Spear One]

I cannot load any Riffe gun. I just physically can't do it. Call me super puss if you want to. Let me know when its my turn to be "bitch of the day".

[Steel Shootin']

Now I don't feel so bad! But what will really make me feel vindicated is when I give it to John, and he struggles! :D

My last dive that I used it had a bunch of fish, and I recocked that thing about 20 times. Man, talk about shoulder pain. I will say this, the thing has some friggen power. Anyway, I'm glad I finally found that 48 SS Red Rhino for multi-hunting use. That is a sweet gun.

[Spear One]

Rogers on that. Easy on your shoulder and gentle on your mind!

PS, Scott I may be a little late on my 10% this week. Its getting kinda hard to get the money out of these greenhorns since somebody let the cat out of the bag.

[johnhermes]

Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[subdude]

Originally posted by johnhermes
Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss Super Puss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

I wanna meat her!!

subdude

[Spear One]

Are you guys directing that at me? I'm quite honored!

[Kasshia]

This little gizmo is made for cocking crossbows, but I bet it could be made to work on speargun bands.:)

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0004401414003a&navAction=jump&navCount=0&indexId=&podId=0004401&catalogCode=ID&parentId=&parentType=&rid=

[Otter-B-Huntin']

Julie is one Hell of a spero, (A spear Goddess!) But come on guys are you sure your loading them correctly? The technique is called chest loading and lets you pull much harder with back and tricep muscle.
1. With right hand on handle grab the left band just forward of the wishbone with your left hand.
2. Then push the butt of the gun onto your breast bone letting the band stretch slightly.
3. Reach down the gun with your right hand and grasp the right side of the band.
4. Now you too can pull like Julie Riffe. or at least alot harder then when hip loading ;)
It takes a litte practice to master but is worth it, when it comes to bands you only get what you put in. For everyone who already loads like this I don't mean to state what might seem obvious but If anyone is having trouble loading these guns it is most likely a question of technique. I hope I explained the technique clearly enough for everyone to understand it is easier to do then say.:D

[Kasshia]

I think we might be talking about two different parts, Fred. I was refering to what Riffe calls the soft wishbone line.:)

[Reef Raider]

Otter load that gun 40 to 50 times and tell me what you see in the mirror?? Man thats got to slow you down some, but then where you hunt maybe it wont matter.. I used to load my JBL 450 XHD that way and I got to say IT SUCKED!! But it was the only way to get that gun loaded..

[Steel Shootin']

Yes, it's an issue of technique. Julie replied to my note a while ago giving me a few suggestions. The Riffe's are not made to be hip loaded. It's too hard due to how far back those shark fin catches are on the gun.

[Spear One]

Hey Scott, what were her suggestions for making the gun easier to load?

[Steel Shootin']

Here you go ....

Dear Scott,

I have a technique that might work for you? I'll give you some specs on how I load our guns, lots of people load and shoot there Riffe guns differently, but as I say the right way to load & shoot a Riffe is: (first question, do you load from the hip?) when loading our
mid-handle spearguns, they are mainly a stomach loading gun, the rest tab is for easy of loading and you may also fire from the rest tab as well. The rest tab gives you the option of loading the gun from your hip then bring it to your upper stomach then go the rest of the way. I have heard of people firing a Riffe gun with the butt actually up against there shoulder and that can hurt yourself. The mid-handle is made to be shot with your gun extended all the way out with your right arm locked straight and your left hand supporting the butt. Make sure you have everything, arms and shoulders in the locked position, to prevent any kick or recoil. Put the tip on the fish and he's yours. Try that and let me know how things go.

Good luck and take care,

Julie Riffe


Very nice of her to reply as she did.

[Spear One]

Anyone thinking about buying a "Bowflex" to get into shape should seriously consider one of those guns instead, and keep the leftover $3000.00 in the bank.

[Otter-B-Huntin']

Reef Raider:
40 to 50 fish? I am not, nor will I be a commercial spearfisherman for a living (although I have many friends who are). Spearfishing is a passion, something I love. I hunt for meat for myself and my kid's. I also spearfish competitively (while freediving) and while in competition have never had the need to shoot so many fish. Therefore, I have never needed to shoot 40 to 50 fish in a single day to accomplish my goals. In a course of a day I might load a gun at best 20 times. Or, maybe I misunderstood your post? Maybe you don't shoot 40-50 fish in a day, but you shoot at 40-50 fish in a day. In which case your loading technique isn't what needs work. :D
Commercial Spearfishing is a unique craft. But, the techniques used and the hunting in excess of one's personal needs is something that I discourage the recreational spearfisherman from doing. Praise should be given to the recreational spearo for the quality of catch, not the quantity. The practice of ethical conservation oriented spearfishing helps to ensure that it will be available for our children to enjoy.
I hope that I am not misunderstood here. I truly don't see the spearfishing community commercial or recreational, freediving or scuba, making a serious difference in the environmental impact of our oceans and encourage co-operation and a unity among these groups as we are the minority in fishing and must not be divided.

[johnhermes]

Anybody got a soapbox?

[f94gator]

Yeah, where'd that come from? :confused: :confused:

[richhermes]

blah blah blah...........

It's the stealth G-man.


BUT I THINK HE'S THE GREATEST GUY EVER. YEP. PAUL IS MY HERO!!!

[Otter-B-Huntin']

Anybody got a soapbox?

ummmm....am I still standing on that thing?

I'm done with it now. ;)

[Otter-B-Huntin']

Soap box reference, couldn't help myself, click below :D
Soap Box (http://media.smilepop.com/smilepop/flash/12_2002/may02-smilepop-soapbox4.swf)

[Reef Raider]

OTTER-B - Huntin = ****ING TROLL
and just for the record I stone more fish in one dive than you can all DAY! You see its a real passion for me so why stop having fun, now go hug your tree..

[fernandezh]

Reef Raider & Otter,

Come on guys, Lay off of each other.


Otter,
Spearing in the Gulf has totally different dynamics than spearing in Md. Although I am not good enough to do it myself, I have seen some of these guys here who are more than capable of getting 40 or so fish in a day here in the gulf. I have some of these commercial boats coming in literally overflowing with fish.


Reef Raider,
You should be ashamed of yourself. You surely can think of something better and more appropriate than "****ing troll" to call Otter boy. I thought you would be more creative than that.

Nobody likes seeing people getting nasty on this board. Either do a virtual handshake or lay off.


Hector

[Reef Raider]

I just call it the way I see it . If anyone wants suger on it your talking to the wrong guy!

[richhermes]

Could not have been said better, Hector.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Although Otter's opinion is not widely held on this board.

[Reef Raider]

What ****ING ever

[f94gator]

****ing A!!

****ity **** **** ****!!!! :D

[Reef Raider]

Thats more like it

[fernandezh]

I am convinced all of us ****ing potty mouths will be smoking turds in hell for half the stuff we read on spearboard and for all the time we spend in the bikini section.


Alternatives for "****ing troll" not directed to any rodent in particular . . .

Ass Pirate
Butt Monkey
Prison Bitch
Vagina Blood Fart

[Reef Raider]

I got to go and do some damage right now but keep that thought.
" I'll be back"

[Otter-B-Huntin']

Reef Raider: My post was in no way intended to offend you. It was just a lighthearted jab. I apologize if I offended you in any way; it was not done with any malice.

fernandezh : I have seen some of these guys here who are more than capable of getting 40 or so fish in a day here in the gulf. I have some of these commercial boats coming in literally overflowing with fish.”
I am not referencing commercial spearfishing, people who feed there families by fishing for a living is fine. I was referencing recreational spearfishing.


richhermes: Although Otter's opinion is not widely held on this board.
I would like to know what kind of water I am swimming in here. What is the opinion of this board on conservation oriented and ethical recreational spearfishing (taking what you can use without waste within the legal recreational catch limits)?

Scott, does the board have a position on this?

[richhermes]

There is no stated "position".
The only reason I said that was that if a vote was taken the tree hugger mentality (the one you alluded to in your initial post in this thread) would be the lesser. I wasn't saying anyone is against limits and/or the blatant disregard for them.

We have been over this argument ad nauseum over at FS. This is the main reason this site was created. Some of the folks that have been involved in this comm vs. rec./spear vs. hook and line argument are a bit trigger happy when the argument resurfaces.

I guess the folks that were part of the spearo group that migrated from FS would not know where Reef Raider is coming from. Or maybe I have no idea what the **** I'm talking about!!

Let's just all get along. :D

[Grande]

i dont understand WTF this is all about. OBH said that he discourages hunting in excess of personal need and he would like to ensure the availability of fish for our kids to shoot at. So what, now he is a tree hugger because he doesnt shoot every single legal fish he sees. I guess that makes me a tree hugger too. Also he put a :D after his joke about reef raiders problem not being his loading technique but rather his shooting so obviously it was a joke. But Reef you then go off with something about how he is a "****ing troll" and you stone more fish in a day than whatever. For a bunch of hunters we sure are sensitive. PEACE OUT.

[f94gator]

Agreed. The whole thing needs to be dropped. Raider's a good guy. Otter's a good guy. We're all a bunch of good guys!
Man, can't ya feel the love in the room!!!

[richhermes]

F94 may be a good guy, but he smells.

[Reef Raider]

Otter you never did say what you would see in the mirror if you where to load that gun of yours 40 to 50 times . So you wont get all ****ed up on this that 40 to 50 times can be in 1 days worth of diving or for you maybe 2 days ( after that I'am sure your done ) In my case I might load my gun 100 times in a MG trip and yes I do miss maybe 1 in 15 to 20 shots but remember this I shoot to kill ( as in head shots) not to just hit the dam fish .Thats what I call being a good sportsman going for the kill shot. Also if someone on the boat has not shot their limmit whats wrong with me filling the boats limmit??If you want to save the planet for your kids thats fine but I would think saving some dumb ass fish is the wrong place to start.

And HECTOR I have family on that wall so say what you want at the very least you have my respect for what you do!

[Charlestondivin]

Only one way to settle this.

Underwater Golfball duel at 20 paces behind a shrimp boat :)


Disclaimer:
By putting a :) after the statement above said party posting is indicating that for mentioned statement is a joke meant in a kidding a playful manner.

Jeez, lighten up guys. Wheres the love!

[Reef Raider]

Sorry but thats one thing I really do not like is someone who thinks they can say what ever they want as long as they SMILE as they say it . So the candy asses can say later OH I was only joking ****ING B.S. I came from the side of the tracks that if you want to play ****ING B.S. games you would pay the price.


Charles this has nothing to do with your post by the way someone else said some thing about the smile shit .

[f94gator]

Originally posted by richhermes
F94 may be a good guy, but he smells.

You know, I really do.

[Spear One]

Do we need to appoint a referee for this thread?

[jordan c]

dude lock rings suck you should be using slip tips anyway
ps. make your gun, it will be how you want it

[Steel Shootin']

Geez, I go away for a few days and you guys start going ape shit on each other. I have never read a post from otter or charleston that was intended to offend anyone. Reef, you just need to unload on some fish to relieve the surface tension. I almost feel sorry for any marine life within the same zip code as you when you make your first drop.

[richhermes]

Watch your P's and Q's Scott, or we'll taunt you a second time!!

You empty headed animal food trough wiper!

[fernandezh]

Originally posted by f94gator
Agreed. The whole thing needs to be dropped. Raider's a good guy. Otter's a good guy. We're all a bunch of good guys!
Man, can't ya feel the love in the room!!!


F94Gator,
I just want to say: "I love you man!! Plutonic love between men can exist." -Wayne's World


I agree with Charleson's recommendation:

Underwater Golfball duel at 20 paces behind a shrimp boat


Hector

[Mr Throw Pole]

it hink riffe's are easy as shit to load, i don't know what everyone's problem is. I can't beleive you guys are comparing seahornets and biller's with riffe's whats wrong with you gulf coast spearo's. Try loading my gun a rob allen 140 cm double band then come complain. Your left wit a bruise at the top of your chest after about 6 loads but nothing i've ever touched shoots str8ter or ferther.

[kitefisherman]

I shoot a Riffe. A buddy of mine shoots a single band Rob Allen and man is it a bitch to load. After loading that damn thing, anything else is easy to load. I can't imagine what it would be like to take it out to the middlegounds and have to reload it so many times. He loves and swears by that gun though.

[Spear One]

As long as you ain't "production shootin" it really doesn't matter how difficult a gun is to load. The main concern is...can you even load it? Some folks just can't load those kind of guns period.

[Spearooo]

"Thats what I call being a good sportsman going for the kill shot. Also if someone on the boat has not shot their limmit whats wrong with me filling the boats limmit??If you want to save the planet for your kids thats fine but I would think saving some dumb ass fish is the wrong place to start."
It sound to me like your motivations for hunting are all wrong. To be a true sportsman conservation and difficulty should be paramount. Sure any fool with a speargun can load up a stringer and even stone a few fish in the process. but it takes a true hunter to pass up a shot on medium fish in wait for real trophy. IF you want to try something sporty try freediving. Reef Raider you are one jumpy cat I wonder if there is more to you than meets the eye, perhaps I sense some guilt in your tone. One fish at a time is all we a hunters can do to help slow the collapse of the oceans ecosystem. I am not suggesting you are to blame but your attitude certainly doesn't do anything for our Image.
Otter Im with you on this one
Call me a tree hugger if you want at least im not a Ton taker.
Maybe some of you should try hugging a tree, you might find it more rewarding than assasinating anything that swims infront of you. Don't get me wrong I love to spearfish but I think we need to watch public perception bc we could end up being the scapegoat of commercial fishing and end up not being allowed to practice the sport we love
Some trees are for hugging others are for smoking.
Stop overfishing or fishing is over

[greyface]

Blow it out your ass, sprearooo! One minute I'm reading your post about whacking HUGE warsaws: "Keep up the good work". Next, you're telling us to hug a tree?! Smoke another one, dooode.:rolleyes:

[scrounger]

I never have any problems loading my riffe, even with the 5/8s bands on it. You just have to pun the but on your stomach or chest depends how long your arms are. Lots of people around here shoot them and some are very little. So any of you big guy should never have a problem.

[Spearooo]

its one thing to take trophy fish and something very diffrent to be on a rampage and from what i read that is what RR was suggesting. I think we as hunters need to watch what we say bc. as a minority we are at risk having almost anything used against us to somehow lessen the blame of commercial interest for the devastation to fish stocks. He was also go on and on about his skills in a very revealing way. there is no need to insult people for being conservation minded. If you think that by chaging forums you can escape people that appreciate the fish we take you are wrong.
I agree we all need to chill out and stick together but sometimes speaking out is the only way to make a change.
:cool:

[Steel Shootin']

The thread is about what gun you use. No where does it imply an invitation to not only tell us about what gun you use, but to tell us why other choices are wrong, and what wussies we are for not being able to use your gun. I'm sure we're all very impressed that some of you guys can easily load the brands that are more difficult. :rolleyes:

By the way, you can kill a lot of fish and still be conservation minded. It's called following the letter of the law, and appreciating that there are a reason for the regulations. If you limit out everytime within the regulations, you're following the state's guideline's for conservation. For you guys who want to do more than the guidelines to conserve, I applaud you. But don't beat someone else over the head because he wants his limit.

[Spearchucker]

Did you guys ride the short bus to school????

[Spearooo]

I agree with you that we as recreational fishermen have little impact on what final outcome is but I am sure many will attest to the vast inadequacies of the law. I didn't mean he shouldn't limit out bc. the very mention of him wanting to adhere to the standard makes me happy that he is interested in making a change. what gets me is that fact that often times its is commercial interest wich desamated the fish stocks by whatever means and then they blame it on recreational fishermen. I am not very well versed in the subject but from what I understand commercial fishermen in the gulf have no trip limit. Does that mean they should kill everything that swim past them?
sorry for ruining the thread guys
here is a pic of my baby
Riffe C-3
it is a great all around gun for Florida

[Dogmatrix]

I have been loading both the Riffe Metal Tech #5s and also Railguns (1.3M) for a while now. I have found that once you get the technique down pat with the railgun, loading other guns becomes easier. I use 4 bands that are around 15mm on the riffe, and I use 2 16mm bands on the Rob allen.

Perhaps by using the chest loading method and taking advantage of the "rest tab" if you have them on your shaft ;) some members would find the riffes easier to load?

Chest loading can be a little daunting at first, and if incorrect method is used injury can occur. Take your time, figure things out, and I am sure many of you will find yourselves more comfortable in loading the larger multi band guns.

Take care, don't put that gun in the back of the shed just yet!
Rob