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Tyler Durden
03-07-2011, 10:26 AM
I understand how wronged the recreational sector must feel with all these recent closures, and I can see how people would want to ignore the laws. However, the actions of the few can really impact the efforts of the many, who are working hard to promote spearfishing as the most selective and responsible harvest method. This looks really, really bad. Please respect the laws so we can collectively keep spearfishing legal and open for all!

http://myfwc.com/media/1252465/2011_WeeklyReport_Feb18-24.pdf

Lieutenant Jeff Sidor, Officers Dave Wigley, Justin Morgan, and Steve Stasko were on routine water patrol 24 miles offshore of Port Canaveral on the vessel, C.T. Randall. They observed a vessel with a dive flag displayed and could see bubbles from subjects diving below. The subjects on the vessel advised the divers were trying to get an anchor from the water. When the divers surfaced, the officers observed that one subject had a stringer of fish. When he saw the vessel and officers on the bow, he immediately tried to go down. Unfortunately for him, he had air in his dive gear and could not submerge. As Officer Wigley tried to give him directions to not dump the fish, the subject took the fish off his stringer and tried to push them under the water. They had been diving in 135 feet of water so the grouper could not sink and floated to the surface. The fish were recovered and the subject was issued citations for possession of gag grouper out of season and interference with a state law enforcement officer. In his statement, the subject admitted that when he surfaced and saw the big green boat, he knew he was in trouble and tried to get rid of the fish.

Another incident occurred offshore Sebastian Inlet in January involving a collective forum member, who's report from that trip (sans any mention of grouper or the fine for taking grouper out of season) may be found on this forum. They were fined and their speargun was confiscated. My point in mentioning this is that we have been presented with conditions that would turn ordinarily law abiding citizens into law breakers, nobody is immune to the temptation when they feel wronged. Remember that your choices can mean consequences for all of us in the end.

Thanks.

kill shot
03-07-2011, 10:46 AM
Some people just plain don't care and it sucks.

Really, if you are going to blatantly break the law then you should not be re-issued a fishing permit for so many years or ever for that matter.

Lazy Bones
03-07-2011, 03:14 PM
I'd love to see that happen as he dumped the fish and they floated up.

Gradyman
03-07-2011, 05:41 PM
I understand how wronged the recreational sector must feel with all these recent closures, and I can see how people would want to ignore the laws. ... My point in mentioning this is that we have been presented with conditions that would turn ordinarily law abiding citizens into law breakers, nobody is immune to the temptation when they feel wronged...

I agree Steve...Not like I'm perfect guys, but in situations like we face concerning these regulations, feeling so cheated by high ranking cons with power, being out there "when no ones looking",...anyway, I'm very thankful for my relationship with the Lord, when I ask, He always gives me the strength & courage to do what's right when I am weak...His love overwhelms me! But for the grace of God keepiing me straight, they would be writing in the newspapers about me :bang:!!!!

G@tor B@it
03-07-2011, 07:29 PM
Good thoughts Dean... I enjoyed your way of assessing the situation and I agree with you.

Same with you Len. Its not the law I worry most about... it might be expensive, but you can usually find your way out of a fix (or at least lessen the consequences). Yet theres one guy judging you that doesnt care about anything other than right and wrong and whats in your heart!

SpearMax
03-07-2011, 08:23 PM
I understand how wronged the recreational sector must feel with all these recent closures, and I can see how people would want to ignore the laws. However, the actions of the few can really impact the efforts of the many, who are working hard to promote spearfishing as the most selective and responsible harvest method. This looks really, really bad. Please respect the laws so we can collectively keep spearfishing legal and open for all!

http://myfwc.com/media/1252465/2011_WeeklyReport_Feb18-24.pdf



Another incident occurred offshore Sebastian Inlet in January involving a collective forum member, who's report from that trip (sans any mention of grouper or the fine for taking grouper out of season) may be found on this forum. They were fined and their speargun was confiscated. My point in mentioning this is that we have been presented with conditions that would turn ordinarily law abiding citizens into law breakers, nobody is immune to the temptation when they feel wronged. Remember that your choices can mean consequences for all of us in the end.

Thanks.

Tyler, in that report you cited another Tyler caught a grouper poacher.

SOUTH REGION A
BROWARD COUNTY

Officer Tyler Harrison checked a vessel fishing offshore and discovered a subject hiding a large red grouper in the anchor locker. Officer Harrison cited the subject for possession of red grouper during the closed season and released the fish to the water alive.

I agree with kill shot that they should lose their fishing licenses for a time in addition to the fines, etc.

Gruper Reeper
03-07-2011, 11:21 PM
what an ass... sooooo many of us have to stare at 30lb puppy dog grouper all spring and resist the shot time and time again ... and this handful of dipshits want to kick all of our efforts back 3 steps for their own selfish gain ..... they should be in politics

Divin' fool
03-08-2011, 03:19 PM
I don't agree with breaking the law....the cost is too high for me, but....Loose their licenses?? Comon' guys.... I'll bet that guy's fine was over $500...that's not enough? You guys act so self-righteous :rolleyes:

Moondogie
03-08-2011, 03:48 PM
I don't agree with breaking the law....the cost is too high for me, but....Loose their licenses?? Comon' guys.... I'll bet that guy's fine was over $500...that's not enough? You guys act so self-righteous :rolleyes:

That guy was stealing our, and YOUR, fish. Not to mention undermining the ethical restraint so many of us have shown this year, and therefore eroding our chances for continued lawful harvest.

I would like to have seen his boat taken along with his license Ė isnít that supposed to be the penalty for blatant poaching? This guy didnít make a mistake. He was stealing from all of us and just arrogant/dumb enough to get caught. Raising the penalty for poaching can only benefit the spearfishing community.

seadogger
03-08-2011, 05:10 PM
that guy was stealing our, and your, fish. Not to mention undermining the ethical restraint so many of us have shown this year, and therefore eroding our chances for continued lawful harvest.

I would like to have seen his boat taken along with his license Ė isnít that supposed to be the penalty for blatant poaching? This guy didnít make a mistake. He was stealing from all of us and just arrogant/dumb enough to get caught. Raising the penalty for poaching can only benefit the spearfishing community.

x2

kkeller
03-08-2011, 07:41 PM
That guy was stealing our, and YOUR, fish. Not to mention undermining the ethical restraint so many of us have shown this year, and therefore eroding our chances for continued lawful harvest.

I would like to have seen his boat taken along with his license Ė isnít that supposed to be the penalty for blatant poaching? This guy didnít make a mistake. He was stealing from all of us and just arrogant/dumb enough to get caught. Raising the penalty for poaching can only benefit the spearfishing community.

x3

SpearMax
03-08-2011, 09:01 PM
Really, if you are going to blatantly break the law then you should not be re-issued a fishing permit for so many years or ever for that matter.

I agree with kill shot that they should lose their fishing licenses for a time in addition to the fines, etc.

I don't agree with breaking the law....the cost is too high for me, but....Loose their licenses?? Comon' guys.... I'll bet that guy's fine was over $500...that's not enough? You guys act so self-righteous :rolleyes:

We both said lose the license for a defined period of time, not necessarily forever. The lawmakers would have to decided what that time would be for what offense or number of offenses. That's all. It happens now with suspension of driver licenses. :scratch:

I have not researched it, but there may already be provisions for suspension of fishing licenses in the justice system, perhaps in the case law judgements.

Bulit7
03-08-2011, 09:18 PM
The officer already escalated the offense with a charge of interfering. Now the Judge will adjudicate it as he sees fit in accordance to the standards set by the law. This cop could have seized the scuba gear, boat etc. He used his judgement as he saw fit. Im ok with that. Im willin to bet he will think long and hard before he pulls the trigger on an illegal fish again.

Dont think this reflects poorly on most of us. I think anyone can understand that there are cheaters among every group out there, but that most people live their lives with integrity.

rtdean
03-09-2011, 05:31 AM
Have you ever got a ticket for going 70 in a 55 zone on the highway (or whatever)? Did you tell the cop..."but officer this the FIRST time I've ever done anything like this..." of course not. You took the risks and over time, you finally got caught.

My thought about this guy is that he prolly takes illegal fish EVERY time he goes out and the opportunity presents itself... weighs the odds of getting caught. Will he do it again? Probably...only the next time, he'll find a way to quickly ditch the fish or just be smarter about his crime.

BTW...after you got that speeding ticket...did that stop you from ever speeding again??? Or...did you maybe buy a radar detector for "next time"? Just curious...if the courts confiscated your car and license for speeding...would you ever speed again?

Am I defending this guy's actions? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It's ALL breaking the law, though....

Rick

PS I could be really "mean" here and ask if you've ever gone 56 in a 55 zone, which technically makes you a "law breaker", whether you got caught or not.....kinda makes us ALL lawbreakers, huh? :D

Moondogie
03-09-2011, 06:57 AM
I'll admit the speeding example fits me as good as most people, and definitely illustrates human nature. But I think if you're going to compare it to poaching, the crime should be in a school zone or somewhere that the reckless action is more likely to impact others. Breaking the law will always be a gray zone (I trespass and speed regularly), but at some point it should become black and white. Rape, murder, etc. are all clearly inexcusable with repercussions that last a lifetime. I put poaching in the same category - clearly wrong, all the time, and deserving the maximum penalty.

Joe.A
03-09-2011, 06:58 AM
Guy was bad, but maybe not evil...
I don't believe in seizure of private property by a tyrant government unless it was bought with drug money. Some guy spends his life savings on his dream boat and get's it confiscated over one mistake while the rich doctor before him got a $500 fine for the same offense, not cool. This kind of use of seizure laws is very difficult to levy fairly.

The same punishment needs to be levied on everyone that commits a similar crime. The easiest way to do that is with fines and liscense suspension.

ny_er
03-09-2011, 07:08 AM
I would like to have seen his boat taken along with his license Ė isnít that supposed to be the penalty for blatant poaching?

seems kind of extreme, take someones boat over an out of season fish

Moondogie
03-09-2011, 07:22 AM
seems kind of extreme, take someones boat over an out of season fish

Pretty easy to avoid. Just don't shoot fish out of season. And if an "accident" happens, just leave him on the bottom. I know it sucks, but it will teach you to know your quarry before the kill - which is the core of the whole "responsible harvest" mantra we spearos use in arguing for our rights.

The situation now is tricky. Just like the speeding example, it pisses me off to no end to hear about someone who got "let off with a warning" for speeding when I have to pay $100. We need CONSISTENT law enforcement. And I agree with Joe, we shouldn't jump straight to taking everyone's boat. I think there should be an announcement that licenses will be taken for first offense, boats for second, with zero tolerance, starting on a given date. But eventually, I think boat seizure is perfectly fine. If it bothers you, just don't surface with illegal fish :soapbox:

Tyler Durden
03-09-2011, 07:32 AM
The irony in one of the incidents I mentioned is that a couple of you who are calling for the harshest penalties were also praising his forum report from that day. Granted, none of us could have known that the person was popped that day for shooting grouper out of season. They took his speargun and charged him with a fine that I can assume was around $500 + court costs. Repeat offenders are often hit with much harsher penalties.


The whole point in this is that we all should be stewards of our sport and set a good example, ESPECIALLY if we regularly post on public forums.

ny_er
03-09-2011, 07:39 AM
Just like the speeding example, it pisses me off to no end to hear about someone who got "let off with a warning" for speeding when I have to pay $100.


why not just take people's cars when they speed? using your logic.

Can you shoot scamp right now in the atlantic? I don't know but my friend was sure you could and was going to shoot one, I told him not to and he didn't. I could find nothing in the recent paper with regs put out saying if we could take it or not, scamp wasn't listed in the section with all the fish and their regs. At least alphabetically, and in rocking boat in decent seas I didn't spend a lot of time reading the fine print.

We don't see scamp freediving very much, so I am not really sure on their regs.

When I got home I found it was on the list of shallow groupers that are closed. If I just went along with what my friend thought should I lose my boat.

Moondogie
03-09-2011, 07:48 AM
I still think $500 and a speargun is light. If I set my morals on a shelf, and wasn't supporting others, there is a part of me that wouldn't mind paying $500 for the freedom to shoot anything I wanted until I got caught. It's a simple cost benefit analysis. Just like doing 80 on I-95. Getting to West Palm 20 min sooner every time is worth the ticket that statistically is coming my way.

A good parallel is our income taxes. I doubt any of us thinks the government is spending our money well and are happy to give them more. Most of us would like to cheat, or not pay at all. Why do we pay then? Maybe some of us are saints or highly patriotic. But most, like myself, do it because otherwise the IRS will put my A$$ in a sling - no exceptions. If that policy has worked for the entire country, I think it would work for poaching too.

Moondogie
03-09-2011, 07:59 AM
why not just take people's cars when they speed? using your logic.

Can you shoot scamp right now in the atlantic? I don't know but my friend was sure you could and was going to shoot one, I told him not to and he didn't. I could find nothing in the recent paper with regs put out saying if we could take it or not, scamp wasn't listed in the section with all the fish and their regs. At least alphabetically, and in rocking boat in decent seas I didn't spend a lot of time reading the fine print.

We don't see scamp freediving very much, so I am not really sure on their regs.

When I got home I found it was on the list of shallow groupers that are closed. If I just went along with what my friend thought should I lose my boat.

Well, if you really wanted to end speeding, then yes, I think seizing cars would be a great way to do it. The severity of punishment needs to match the severity of the crime. I think poaching is a big deal, but speeding (like 10 over) is not. If you are doing 130, I believe you do lose your license and go to jail. Going 130 is considered a big deal by most. So really it comes down to what you value. If you think poaching isn't such a big problem, then it would not make sense to seize boats.

With the regs, as with the sizes, all you have to do is your homework. Not that hard. I too have let several scamp go by because I wasn't sure what it was. Later I learned the rules. Now I'll never forget how to ID a scamp. If you want to be that "responsible and eco-friendly harvester" we keep trying to associate with spearing, then you need to do your homework, and when in doubt let it go. It's not that hard. Are a few extra fish really worth lowering our standards?

Divin' fool
03-09-2011, 08:00 AM
It's amazing that we (spearos) have been pushed to the point that we are bickering over one stupid Grouper. Let's all be honest....every one of us have at one time broken the law (ie. the speeding example). The MFC and special interest groups have jerked us around and capriciously taken away our rights. I don't condone that guy's behavior.... but there are groups out there that are doing much worse to us than a guy taking one Grouper. IMHO we should all be channeling our energies to stop the groups that are stealing our rights that will never be restored. I don't mean to step on any toes here, but how many letters have you written?...How many politicians have you contacted? .... How many rallies have you attended?

pirate_diver
03-09-2011, 09:07 AM
Have you ever got a ticket for going 70 in a 55 zone on the highway (or whatever)? Did you tell the cop..."but officer this the FIRST time I've ever done anything like this..." of course not. You took the risks and over time, you finally got caught.

My thought about this guy is that he prolly takes illegal fish EVERY time he goes out and the opportunity presents itself... weighs the odds of getting caught. Will he do it again? Probably...only the next time, he'll find a way to quickly ditch the fish or just be smarter about his crime.

BTW...after you got that speeding ticket...did that stop you from ever speeding again??? Or...did you maybe buy a radar detector for "next time"? Just curious...if the courts confiscated your car and license for speeding...would you ever speed again?

Am I defending this guy's actions? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It's ALL breaking the law, though....

Rick

PS I could be really "mean" here and ask if you've ever gone 56 in a 55 zone, which technically makes you a "law breaker", whether you got caught or not.....kinda makes us ALL lawbreakers, huh? :D

Agreed. And license or not, he would probably still take fish.

seadogger
03-09-2011, 09:22 AM
The officer already escalated the offense with a charge of interfering. Now the Judge will adjudicate it as he sees fit in accordance to the standards set by the law. This cop could have seized the scuba gear, boat etc. He used his judgement as he saw fit. Im ok with that. Im willin to bet he will think long and hard before he pulls the trigger on an illegal fish again.

Dont think this reflects poorly on most of us. I think anyone can understand that there are cheaters among every group out there, but that most people live their lives with integrity.


Well said Lee.......:toast:

seadogger
03-09-2011, 09:26 AM
why not just take people's cars when they speed? using your logic.

Can you shoot scamp right now in the atlantic? I don't know but my friend was sure you could and was going to shoot one, I told him not to and he didn't. I could find nothing in the recent paper with regs put out saying if we could take it or not, scamp wasn't listed in the section with all the fish and their regs. At least alphabetically, and in rocking boat in decent seas I didn't spend a lot of time reading the fine print.

We don't see scamp freediving very much, so I am not really sure on their regs.

When I got home I found it was on the list of shallow groupers that are closed. If I just went along with what my friend thought should I lose my boat.

Scamp are in the grouper family.....so No you can't shoot them till May 1

rtdean
03-09-2011, 12:14 PM
I'll admit the speeding example fits me as good as most people, and definitely illustrates human nature. But I think if you're going to compare it to poaching, the crime should be in a school zone or somewhere that the reckless action is more likely to impact others. Breaking the law will always be a gray zone (I trespass and speed regularly), but at some point it should become black and white. Rape, murder, etc. are all clearly inexcusable with repercussions that last a lifetime. I put poaching in the same category - clearly wrong, all the time, and deserving the maximum penalty.

Until excess speeds on the highway causes you to lose control of your car and you slam it into a family of 4 and they all are killed......compare that to someone taking a fish out of season...it kind of changes the perspective some...I think the law is there to protect everybody and when we start to take it into our own hands and decide what laws to obey or disobey, it can become dangerous. On the other hand, I am as guilty as anyone about speeding, etc. So I am a bit of a hypocrite, in that, I, too, decide which laws to obey and which, not. I guess it's how you look at each situation.

Here is a group of scenarios that bother me about our legal system...

The scene...a person goes to a restaurant to celebrate a family member or friend returning from war...has a few beers or a couple glasses of wine...

Situation one...he drives home safely, goes to bed..had a great night...end of story....

Situation two...he drives home, but gets pulled over by a cop and gets a DUI.

Situation three....he drives home, accidently loses control of his car, but hits and kills people in another car.....spends the rest of his life in prison.

In all three situations, his intention was exactly the same, but the outcomes were drastically different.

Not exactly sure why I posted the last parts. . .just something I've been thinking about... .

Rick

hammerhead786
03-09-2011, 01:35 PM
A little self righteous indeed. Those guys are not " stealing yours and my fish... NOAA, NMFS and FWC have already done that. These guys shot fish that they and any other salt water licensed spearo should be allowed to shoot. Our rights were stolen from us in the dark without us getting a fair say. More fishing rights will continue to be stolen because the controlling agencies just do whatever they feel like. In the end these guys will pay more consequences than Dr Nigosia has for running over Rob and leaving him for dead. This scenario is like the assholes at the beach who dont provide ample parking and then ticket you when you find a spot you can make work. aaaaaaa WINNING!

BAM/DIVER
03-09-2011, 02:57 PM
Wow i just read all the above threads... hmmm Time for me to start studying on what species i can shoot and when and where and sizes!

I didn't know they take your gun!! Some of us pay big $$$ for our equipment. the fines of $500+ would be enough to keep me straight from breaking the rules. i would be seriously pissed if they took my property over a fish that "GOD put in the ocean" not anyone else.

They can fine you & take ur equipment & boat??? WTF! That is too much power from law enforcement to wield. That is more than i think they should be able to do. It should be a ticket from law enforcement. Then the judge decides how much the fine is depending on circumstances.


Yes i know some will say thats wrong, but i am NOT losing my property. Period.

I will do my best at learning the laws and restrictions. i am not getting in to this hobby to just kill... i will eat everything i kill. I love fishing (favorite hobby) and have been certified diver since 97 and now its time to put both hobbies i love doing together and start spear fishing.

To each his own... Bam

Moondogie
03-09-2011, 04:05 PM
It's amazing that we (spearos) have been pushed to the point that we are bickering over one stupid Grouper. Let's all be honest....every one of us have at one time broken the law (ie. the speeding example). The MFC and special interest groups have jerked us around and capriciously taken away our rights. I don't condone that guy's behavior.... but there are groups out there that are doing much worse to us than a guy taking one Grouper. IMHO we should all be channeling our energies to stop the groups that are stealing our rights that will never be restored. I don't mean to step on any toes here, but how many letters have you written?...How many politicians have you contacted? .... How many rallies have you attended?

This is my opinion, but I see this issue as just as important as any rally or letter. This is the ammo they will use against us, and I want to take that away from them - defense vs. offense.

awthacker
03-09-2011, 06:29 PM
A little self righteous indeed. Those guys are not " stealing yours and my fish... NOAA, NMFS and FWC have already done that. These guys shot fish that they and any other salt water licensed spearo should be allowed to shoot. Our rights were stolen from us in the dark without us getting a fair say. More fishing rights will continue to be stolen because the controlling agencies just do whatever they feel like. In the end these guys will pay more consequences than Dr Nigosia has for running over Rob and leaving him for dead. This scenario is like the assholes at the beach who dont provide ample parking and then ticket you when you find a spot you can make work. aaaaaaa WINNING!

Well said.

How is it fair to suggest that breaking a law is morally wrong? Is that to say that God supports the SAFMC agenda? I don't think he would. I think some of these regulations are morally wrong. Winning the political battle doesn't make it right.

sharpshooter
03-09-2011, 06:56 PM
I can picture the guy in a jail cell with a few others. So, he asks looking around. What are you guys in for? One says, rape and murder. Another says, bank robbery and murder. Another says, wife and child physical abuse. Then all 3 ask him, what are you in for. I speared a grouper out of season. Wonder if he'll get the same sentence as any of the 3? I think the legal system needs to let people know up front what the penalty is for breaking that law. There's alot of gray area. Just like in most work places. Depending on the wrong. You could get a verbal warning or written warning or let go. But, at least you know ahead of time the penalty for your actions.

Bulit7
03-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Wow i just read all the above threads... hmmm Time for me to start studying on what species i can shoot and when and where and sizes!

I didn't know they take your gun!! Some of us pay big $$$ for our equipment. the fines of $500+ would be enough to keep me straight from breaking the rules. i would be seriously pissed if they took my property over a fish that "GOD put in the ocean" not anyone else.

They can fine you & take ur equipment & boat??? WTF! That is too much power from law enforcement to wield. That is more than i think they should be able to do. It should be a ticket from law enforcement. Then the judge decides how much the fine is depending on circumstances.


Yes i know some will say thats wrong, but i am NOT losing my property. Period.

I will do my best at learning the laws and restrictions. i am not getting in to this hobby to just kill... i will eat everything i kill. I love fishing (favorite hobby) and have been certified diver since 97 and now its time to put both hobbies i love doing together and start spear fishing.

To each his own... Bam

There goes jfjf, ruining all the fun! Tell us what u edited out, at least!!:D

Thats all it takes: learn the regs!

Some people deserve harsher penalties. That is why the fwc has latitude in the course of action they take. Some people out there poach and sell their fish and some make honest mistakes...

matt888
03-09-2011, 07:35 PM
My thought about this guy is that he prolly takes illegal fish EVERY time he goes out and the opportunity presents itself... weighs the odds of getting caught. Will he do it again? Probably...only the next time, he'll find a way to quickly ditch the fish or just be smarter about his crime.

Bingo.
And yes, they can take your car in most states for 20mph over the speed limit. So now we only need to decide how many times he needs to be caught or with how many fish before his boat belongs to the state.

There will be those that get the scare of their lives in these situations, and others that will go out and break laws on the very next trip out. My money is on he's a dirtbag 24/7...

rtdean
03-10-2011, 05:33 AM
I was diving in Grand Cayman a couple years ago and the Divemaster told me (at least, if I remember right, this is what I THINK he said), that if you're caught spearing or even with a speargun on board, it's $100,000 fine, a year in jail and they confiscate your boat!!!! Needless to say. . . if that is true, there's prolly not a whole lot of folks running around with spearguns, there. Seems terribly radical to me, but effective, I would guess. They certainly get their point across!

(Does anybody know for sure??? Is this correct???)

On the other hand, if you happen to be spearing off a cruise ship.....would they confiscate the cruise ship??? Sorry....couldn't resist! :D

Rick

diverlen
03-10-2011, 06:04 AM
Rick, just for the record, it is impossible to spear off a cruise ship. To dive when on a cruise ship, first you must disembark the ship, then tow your luggage to a location where you will be met by the contracted dive boat and then you are on your way. I could just visualize (1) being able to board a cruise ship with any kind of speargun and (2) disembarking with the gun and then being met by a local divemaster on the pier with gun in hand. That would be hilarious indeed.
I know you are just joking around but there are probably some folks on the board who think you can do such a thing. Regards.

intowin
03-10-2011, 07:04 AM
I am sure this spearo chose Florida as his home for a reason. We are surrounded by water and he likes to eat fish. If someone can show me some real data as to why our fish need to be taken away from us, I will throw the first stone. Otherwise yes he did break mans law, but not a moral one IMO. Gen 1:28-30. Acts 5:29

Lets put the outrage back where it belongs..
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=119916

Moondogie
03-10-2011, 07:12 AM
Well said.

How is it fair to suggest that breaking a law is morally wrong? Is that to say that God supports the SAFMC agenda? I don't think he would. I think some of these regulations are morally wrong. Winning the political battle doesn't make it right.

Laws, morals, and superstition are by no means linked in any consistent manner - it was not my intention to imply otherwise.

Shaft'o'death
03-10-2011, 09:28 AM
I think you answered your own question in regards to the scamp.. If you are not sure of the regulation, don't shoot.. If you are not sure of the size, don't shoot... If you are going to participate in a sport, the it IS your responsibility to find out.. When you buy a fishing license, you should read the rules.. SIMPLE..

Speeding is an infraction, so no need to take a vehicle for that reason.. But once the guy showed that what he knew he was doing was wrong and trying to dump the stringer, he lost all chance of playing dumb and getting a slap on the wrist.. Confiscate his equipment, boat, gun...etc.. And I bet he doesn't do it again..

why not just take people's cars when they speed? using your logic.

Can you shoot scamp right now in the atlantic? I don't know but my friend was sure you could and was going to shoot one, I told him not to and he didn't. I could find nothing in the recent paper with regs put out saying if we could take it or not, scamp wasn't listed in the section with all the fish and their regs. At least alphabetically, and in rocking boat in decent seas I didn't spend a lot of time reading the fine print.

We don't see scamp freediving very much, so I am not really sure on their regs.

When I got home I found it was on the list of shallow groupers that are closed. If I just went along with what my friend thought should I lose my boat.

rtdean
03-10-2011, 02:44 PM
Rick, just for the record, it is impossible to spear off a cruise ship. To dive when on a cruise ship, first you must disembark the ship, then tow your luggage to a location where you will be met by the contracted dive boat and then you are on your way. I could just visualize (1) being able to board a cruise ship with any kind of speargun and (2) disembarking with the gun and then being met by a local divemaster on the pier with gun in hand. That would be hilarious indeed.
I know you are just joking around but there are probably some folks on the board who think you can do such a thing. Regards.

That's if you do it THEIR way! You mean to tell me you've never jumped the 60-100 feet or so off the stern of a cruise ship at the dock with mask, freediving fins, weight belt and full scuba equip on and speargun in hand?? Len. . .you're such a wuss! :D

Rick

diverlen
03-10-2011, 05:51 PM
That's if you do it THEIR way! You mean to tell me you've never jumped the 60-100 feet or so off the stern of a cruise ship at the dock with mask, freediving fins, weight belt and full scuba equip on and speargun in hand?? Len. . .you're such a wuss! :D

Rick

Well Rick, I will have to admit that I did a couple of times after being force-fed a large quantity of unknown substances in the ship's disco lounge. However, I did manage to come up with some nice grouper for the next day's lunch prepared by the captain's personal chef.:D

UaVaj
03-10-2011, 07:23 PM
"They had been diving in 135 feet of water so the grouper could not sink and floated to the surface. The fish were recovered and the subject was issued citations for possession of gag grouper out of season and interference with a state law enforcement officer. "


He will be smarter next time.



Seizing the speargun and the boat will prevent him from doing it again. :thumps:

hammerhead786
03-10-2011, 11:46 PM
I had to go back to college to learn/re-learn / keep up with the regs...why shouldn't all of you?

Then there's the musical speed zone's. This month through that month bla bla bla but on weekends if your gay and wearing pink you can go 25mph... just go slow 300' from any bridge, fuel dock or glory hole. And my favorite... all boats slow speed (no wake) unless your boat is under 25' and pulling a skier because boats under 25' can't kill manatees. Neither can LEO's boats or Coasties boats or FWC's because I see them speeding like hell through manatee zones all the time... :thumps:

I remember the intra coastal when it wasn't all slow speed / no wake zones and it was much better. It did need a speed limit because there was always an asshole or two who had to try and hit 80mph on a crowded weekend day. This crawling down the waterway shit is absurd. It's almost as stupid as the red snapper closure. Almost.