Grey area of Spearfishing

[fernandezh]

Guys,
Here is something that I "heard" about how you can go spearfishing and get redfish without breaking the rules. Mind you, if anybody here wants to slap the cuffs on me and turn me into somebody's girlfriend in the big house, I have never actually done this. This is something I have "heard" somebody doing and he says it is legal and it works.

I was on a dive boat once down in the keys, and I watched another steel-slinger put a little rubber ball into his BC. When I asked him what it was for he said it was for snook and redfish. What he did was whenever he was underwater and saw any of these fish (which are banned from harvesting by spearfishing) all he would do is put this little rubber ball over the tip of his spearshaft and shoot at the fish in the head. Because of the rubber ball, the spear would not penetrate the fish but it would stun it for a few seconds or so. It would be enough time for him to swim on over grab the fish by the gills and slide the stringer through it's gills and out the mouth, careful not to penetrate any portion of the fish with his stringer. This guy says it is perfectly legal because in accordance with Florida game regulations concerning spearfishing spearing is defined as, and I quote:


"Spearing" means the catching or taking of a fish by bow hunting, gigging, spearfishing, or by any device used to capture a fish by piercing its body. Spearing does not include the catching or taking of a fish by a hook with hook and line gear or by snagging (snatch hooking)."

Technically speaking, using this method is not in violation of the regulations because you are not "piercing its body".

Ok, guys I know I am not politically correct but what is your take on this? Would this be something you may or may not want to attempt the next time you come across a school of redfish? As always I enjoy hearing every point of view and want to hear what you all have to say.

Best Regards,

Hector Fernandez

[subdude]

GAWD I love loopholoes.

subdude

[Kasshia]

I wouldn't try it. I'm not sure if breaks the law or not, but it looks like one of those things that depends too much on what kind of day the FWC Officer is having. It may not break the letter of the law, but it does break the intent of the law.

[junior]

A guy in the keys got busted for that same thing with snook, not reds. Used a golf ball on the spear tip and forgot his fishing pole one day. Marine patrol figured it out pretty quick.

I would ask a state officer before you tried it. One redfish ain't worth a boat.

But, let me know 'cause I would give it a try if legal.

[f94gator]

Looks like a loophole to me. But when you're relying on such an interpretation, you're asking to get hassled. You might get away with it in the end, but that won't stop the officer from harassing you.
And I agree; it violates the intent of the law. The powers that be deemed it was too easy to catch snook and redfish with a speargun. They just didn't think of this twist.
While we're at it, a PH doesn't really 'pierce' the body so much as blow a hole in it. Is that a loophole too? :D

[fernandezh]

Surely we have an attorney around here who can help us answer that question about breaking the "spirit of the law"

Is breaking the spirit of the law illegal? I don't think it is.

[Divin' fool]

I have seen some MONSTER Snook down there... definate "grey area". Just be sure to have the poles in the boat.. duh :rolleyes: Not that I would ever try it :D

[richhermes]

Damn!

You sure can tell F94 is married to an attorney!!!

[FredT]

Getting caught with a redfish in the boat no matter how it was taken if you're in federal water is a VERY BAD THING that can result in some serious fines, exactly like having a hebrew mullet on your stringer. I think the penalty is the same as having a bald eagle hood ornament as it falls under the same laws. Not a good thing.

FT

[Cock's Roost]

First you have to remember it's a racing mullet not a snook. Second that is one hell of an idea, I might have to try it out in the canal. God knows them big old snook get picky when it comes to hook and line. Can you say fore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[kitefisherman]

I suspect that it is technically legal, but I also suspect that you might have to convince a judge of it if you were "caught" by the marine patrol. For that reason, I would definitely have a rod rigged with a jig aboard.

I also wonder how hard it is to sufficiently stun a snook so that you can just grab it. It might be harder than it sounds.

[201proguide]

ive heard of that being done before too, both with a golf ball and a rubber ball. like everyone else has said before, it doesnt break the letter of the law. i would be pretty carefull when doing it.

i guess if you wanted to, you could go by the old saying "its legal once its in your front yard"

[bubblejunkie]

I lived in the Keys for a while and never saw it done for redfish but it works extremely well on snook, it's almost to easy, so I've heard anyway, only with a golf ball though.

[Speargun]

Technically speaking, using this method is not in violation of the regulations because you are not "piercing its body".
Correct. Technically speaking.
I can't see a jury convicting anyone on this because of the way it is worded. BUT, remember the old saying "You might beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."
If you decide to try this just remember one thing, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Most people get into trouble because they volunteer way too much information.

A sign seen in front of a local business.
"Take every chance you can to shut up."
Good advice for anyone. :D

[webers]

Coming from one of the lawyers in the group. . . .

My advice to you following a $110K worth of law school at Vanderbilt and and years of legal practice can be summed up as follows: It ain't worth it.

[Cock's Roost]

OK We wont be playing water golf with snook hazards. I can say that I know someone who knocked a snook out with an anchor. The story is he was on a reef in the bay collecting anchors. He pulled one of the concrete the snook stuck his head out of a hole and he whacked it with the anchor from above. Thought you guys would bet a kick out of that.

[Cock's Roost]

webers I'm curious Vanderbilt law school and you want to dive behind a shrimp boat at culling time. You are the man!!!!:D

[Screen Name]

Planning the laws relating to spearing those fish, and

WE ULTIMATELY and inadvertently GOT SCREWED! The original intent was to protect lethargic fish from spearing from docks in freezing weather.

The ultimate law, pushed through by the hook and liners, was they can catch fish......but divers cannot. This was solely based on the lobbying strength of hook & liners vs us, the minority.

Wheres the freakin rationale behind that? Hook & Liners can harvest, but divers cant harvest an equal limit? Bigger risk, bigger investment, more training........you are screwed.

So yeah, I loke that idea, but unfortunately F94gator is right, do it when you dont mind getting hassled.

[fernandezh]

Webers,
Bro I love you to death 'cause you've got some brass cajones for wanting to spear behind the shrimpboat. But I can't resist just one lawyer joke so don't take it to much to heart.


What do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?


A good start :D


Webers,
You are definitely one lawyer I would not mind seeing at the bottom of the ocean (with a speargun in hand)

:D :D :D

[f94gator]

Originally posted by webers
My advice to you following a $110K worth of law school at Vanderbilt and and years of legal practice can be summed up as follows: It ain't worth it. [/B]

Ah, I see. Couldn't get into Florida, eh? :D

[junior]

There are gear restrictions for snook that say you can only use hook and line. No snatching, spearing, gigging etc. But redfish don't have this language associated with their catching.

Definite bust on the snook thing if you forget to bring your fishing rod or marine patrol sees you come up with one in your hand.

Not sure about the reds though.

[webers]

f94gator,

I assume you graduated from UF's undergraduate program in 94. So did I-with honors and on national merit scholarship. Were you Greek? Perhaps we crossed paths?

I passed over a full ride to Law School at UF (and others) to go to Vandy--for obvious reasons.

But, I still bleed orange and blue -- and never missed a Gator game while at UF. Go gators!

Webers
:)

[f94gator]

We've met through my wife and the lawyerly circles, but I don't think we ever met at UF - it's a damn big school after all. I was a Delta Chi, but never got involved in the IFC or any of the political organization bullshit.

So you passed up a full ride to UF to go to Vandy? I'm hoping Vandy gave you a full ride as well. I'd have an extremely hard time passing up a free JD from a very good law school at the flagship university of the state to spend over 100K at Vandy and not even get cheap tickets to watch a good football team!

[dothanfrogman]

Looks like a classic case of mine is bigger than yours gator. No offense intended webers.

[richhermes]

Now that is a hard question.
Hmmmm, Should I go to law school for free or should I have $110K worth of student loans??

(Unless mommy and daddy took care of that pesky bill!)

[f94gator]

LOL :D :rolleyes:

[Marcus]

That golf ball thing works well on manatees, too.;) If I get caught by the marine patrol, I just say that I found it floating and I'm hauling it in to get looked at. Sea cow filet mignon, mmmm... mmm...good! :D

[webers]

Again,

It is not worth it. If you're going to commit murder. . . don't leave a body. It is just too hard to haul ass or hide evidence from the fuzz when you're in the mddle of gutting a manatee. . .

I can see it now: No officer, that's not a sea cow on the dock--I'm guttif a dolphin. . . I mean a very big grouper. No,. its not a jewfish. . ."

webers

[junior]

Marcus has a manatee in his fish tank at home. Shhhhhh:D

[Marcus]

Yea, it's a baby one. Just small enough to fit. It works well because it can't turn around or swim, makes the meat nice and tender. I'm also force feeding it creamed corn to fattin it up. Dems gonna be some good groceries...;)

[richhermes]

I'll bring the A1.

[f94gator]

I've got some Paul Newman's steak sauce I can bring. Stuff kicks ass. Went great with that Florida Panther I grilled up over the weekend!

[webers]

I hear the flipers are even better than shark fin for making the ol' pecker hard!

[subdude]

smear manatee with lobster eggs and cook 'em in a turtle shell over a redwood fire.

Mmmmmm,

subdude

[junior]

Just make sure ya gut 'em real good cause theys sphincters are aweful stanky. Just one lil piece a dat bowel and it'd ruin the whole batch. Oh, how I's just loves me some a dat pickled sea cow tongue:D