GoPro Brand Flat Lense

[NICKtheSPEARO]

Looks like GoPro is finally making their own flat lens for the diving community that will be compatible with the Hero 2.

Skip to 2:50 to check out the housing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=m583dFRFu18

[jfjf]

The flat lens is not available yet and the Go Pro people at DEMA Show said it was scheduled for Jan 1 release, but I would not count on it...

[greekdiver]

The flat lens is not available yet and the Go Pro people at DEMA Show said it was scheduled for Jan 1 release, but I would not count on it...

I agree. They are notorious for releasing stuff late.

I am happy with my glass lens. The best option anyways for gopro2 spearfishing will be the 90 FOV 720P at 60fps. You will not get any vignetting. You can use the other settings if you want everything tiny and far away.

[LunkerBuster]

harry do you just think the 1080 is not needed or is there a disadvantage? i only ask because i love watching the raw vids on my big ass tv and would hate to lose that definition

[greekdiver]

harry do you just think the 1080 is not needed or is there a disadvantage? i only ask because i love watching the raw vids on my big ass tv and would hate to lose that definition

On 50 inch plasma, the difference will be noticed but 720p will still look nice enough. On the web or your computer screen, it is not very noticeable.

[fishspearit]

The best option anyways for gopro2 spearfishing will be the 90 FOV 720P at 60fps. You will not get any vignetting. You can use the other settings if you want everything tiny and far away.

Doesn't the Hero2 allow you to avoid the vignetting problem at 1080 by adjusting the lens angle with 3 different settings? I just got one and am trying to figure out which will work best 1080 narrow, 940 at 48 fps. or the 720 60fps. Thanks

[greekdiver]

Doesn't the Hero2 allow you to avoid the vignetting problem at 1080 by adjusting the lens angle with 3 different settings? I just got one and am trying to figure out which will work best 1080 narrow, 940 at 48 fps. or the 720 60fps. Thanks

I do not have one yet but I could guess pretty accurately. It is the wide FOV that gives you vignetting. Use the 720p 60fps 90 or 127 FOV. You shouldn't get vignetting. I think this is the best because 60fps is very noticeable when compared to 30fps. When you look left and right or even shoot the spear, everything will be so much smoother with 60fps.

1080 vs 720 is not that big of a difference especially underwater with these cameras. These cameras don't do well in lower light conditions (ie underwater) so 720p and 1080p is almost the same shit. I'm sure on the ski slope the 1080 vs 720 is much more noticeable.

30fps and 60fps is just a way bigger difference than 720/1080

Imo, 90 and 127 FOV is the best for our use. I will probably use 90 FOV. It is the most "real looking" FOV. You just dont see as much with that angle but what you see will show up very nice in the video. So you have to make sure you head cam or gun cam is centered properly.

[macsub]

harry do you just think the 1080 is not needed or is there a disadvantage? i only ask because i love watching the raw vids on my big ass tv and would hate to lose that definition

I was wondering the same thing after reading Greek's comments.
I always use 1080p(r5) and yes, everything look far away and tiny.

Greekdiver: thanks for the tips, I will try 720p/60fps next time. But cant wait to get the gopro2.

[greekdiver]

I was wondering the same thing after reading Greek's comments.
I always use 1080p(r5) and yes, everything look far away and tiny.

Greekdiver: thanks for the tips, I will try 720p/60fps next time. But cant wait to get the gopro2.

the 720p/60fps will only look good on the gopro2 because you have the option of 90 and 127 FOV. The 720p/60fps on the gopro1 hd (r3) is set at 170 FOV.

Imo 170 Fov is not good for spearfishing.

Here is a link to compare gopro 1 and 2

http://gopro.com/product-comparison-hd-hero2-hd-hero-cameras/

[greekdiver]

And 16gb cards are still enough for these cameras. It is not necessary to go for 32gb if you already have a 16gb. Gopro1 and 2 still burn memory at the same rate.

[jfjf]

the 720p/60fps will only look good on the gopro2 because you have the option of 90 and 127 FOV. The 720p/60fps on the gopro1 hd (r3) is set at 170 FOV.

Imo 170 Fov is not good for spearfishing.

Here is a link to compare gopro 1 and 2

http://gopro.com/product-comparison-hd-hero2-hd-hero-cameras/

So you are saying that the 170 degree field of view is too much of a wide angle and when you use this on the GP-1 (or on the new GP-2), everything looks too small and far away for spearfishing in clear water?

[macsub]

Ok, that comparison chart is good.
According to it, with the (original) GPro1, the lowest FOV is 127 at 1080p (r5). I think I will stick to r5 with the gopro1 for now.

[greekdiver]

So you are saying that the 170 degree field of view is too much of a wide angle and when you use this on the GP-1 (or on the new GP-2), everything looks too small and far away for spearfishing in clear water?

yes exactly.

[greekdiver]

Ok, that comparison chart is good.
According to it, with the (original) GPro1, the lowest FOV is 127 at 1080p (r5). I think I will stick to r5 with the gopro1 for now.

There is nothing wrong with gopro1. Its a very good camera.

The gopro2 will be very nice at 720p @ 60fps with 90 FOV preferably or 127 FOV. I will have to see if 90 FOV will be large enough to get everything I want to see when I spear a fish. We already know 127 FOV is good enough.

[macsub]

There is nothing wrong with gopro1. Its a very good camera.

The gopro2 will be very nice at 720p @ 60fps with 90 FOV preferably or 127 FOV. I will have to see if 90 FOV will be large enough to get everything I want to see when I spear a fish. We already know 127 FOV is good enough.

Oh yes, don't get me wrong, I love my gopro1. I just didn't pay attention to the FOV, until now.

I have the impression that 90 FOV will be better for most spearing situations with everything looking closer and larger, but we will see... with the head mount sometimes is hard to point to the right place.

[KillerKanuck]

Great now i understand why i get vignetting in 720 vs. 1080; 127 FOV all the way... Look forward to seeing the difference 90 FOV makes and yes I agree 60 fps is awesome compared to 30 fps!!

[greekdiver]

Come to find out the gopro2 had a misprint on their web. They are supposed to correct it several days ago. It still shows incorrect info.

http://gopro.com/product-comparison-hd-hero2-hd-hero-cameras/

That is so lame. Now, an upgrade is not necessarily worth it. Yes, the HD2 is a better camera but HD1 is still very good.

The camera can only do all the FOVs in 1080p. That is very disappointing. Gopro is pretty lame for posting incorrect info (not correcting it right away) on what the camera is capable of doing. I know I would be extremely pissed if I bought the camera and those options were not available to me.

From what I read, a firmware update is not going to fix that issue.

[jfjf]

Come to find out the gopro2 had a misprint on their web. They are supposed to correct it several days ago. It still shows incorrect info.

http://gopro.com/product-comparison-hd-hero2-hd-hero-cameras/

That is so lame. Now, an upgrade is not necessarily worth it. Yes, the HD2 is a better camera but HD1 is still very good.

The camera can only do all the FOVs in 1080p. That is very disappointing. Gopro is pretty lame for posting incorrect info (not correcting it right away) on what the camera is capable of doing. I know I would be extremely pissed if I bought the camera and those options were not available to me.

From what I read, a firmware update is not going to fix that issue.

I'm not sure i understand what there is to be mad about? Having the camera shoot with the maximum resolution at all angles seems good?

Is it associated with the 60 fps capacity?

[greekdiver]

I'm not sure i understand what there is to be mad about? Having the camera shoot with the maximum resolution at all angles seems good?

Is it associated with the 60 fps capacity?

720p and 1080p is like the same shit. Watch both resolutions on 50 inch plasma screen at 10ft and tell me if there is a big difference.

30fps and 60fps is not same. There is a big difference on any size screen.

[greekdiver]

I guess you are getting a better FOV (90) in 1080 and better optics in poor vis conditions. HD2 will be better in lower light conditions. There are a few other small things too but nothing major in performance. We will have to see.

[aussie]

Hmmm, now I'm confused. Should I get the 1 or 2. Is there a sig diff to justify the price and what are the optimum settings if you can only use certain fov's on 1080p.

The thing that kills me with most footage on the one is the lens is so wide everything looks tiny.

[greekdiver]

Hmmm, now I'm confused. Should I get the 1 or 2. Is there a sig diff to justify the price and what are the optimum settings if you can only use certain fov's on 1080p.

The thing that kills me with most footage on the one is the lens is so wide everything looks tiny.

From what I read, the 1080p at 90fov at 30fps will be the best option. The lens is nicer on gopro2 but honestly the upgrade isn't that huge.

The best setting would have been 720p at 90fov at 60fps. That would have been super sweet for spearfishing. Silky smooth video with real distance (90FOV) in HD.

720p and 1080p is not a big difference btw.

I don't think i will upgrade yet. I would not rush to upgrade, that is for sure. I was going to rush to get one but found out they cheated us on the website specs.

If you have a gopro1, I'd stick with it at least for now

[IyaDiver]

And 16gb cards are still enough for these cameras. It is not necessary to go for 32gb if you already have a 16gb. Gopro1 and 2 still burn memory at the same rate.

Nope, HD2 at 1080p Narrow or 90 degrees is approx 20 mbps while the 1080p at 127 degrees HD2 or HD1 is approx 16 mbps. So its about 2.5 mega byte per second for HD2 1080p narrow ( 90 degrees ). This is at 25 fps, at 30 fps it will be more data rate.

See photo test attached.

20% more memory for HD2 at 1080p 90 degrees/narrow is expected.
3.66 GB FAT 32 allowance per file. This will give approx 24.4 minutes of video per file at 25fps ( PAL setting ). I have not messed with the 720p though.

Will make a complete thread along with 4 different flat lens when I have more time.

Happy VIDEO-ing guys.......:D

[IyaDiver]

Ahhh, the resolution reduced to 148kb by the forum, let me zoom the screen capture so you guys can see better the data rate details

[aussie]

OK, I'm not the smartest guy in the world so break it down for me, simple.

Shooting 1080p w/ 90d how many minutes of footage will I approx get per GB?

And while we're at it, how about 1090p, 127d and 720p 127d (as I don't think you can shoot 90d @ 720p?)

[IyaDiver]

Hi Aussie,

The file management of memory card is FAT32 , is based on Windows. So each file on a memory card can not exceed 4 GB or 4000 MB. This is Bill Gate's thingy. On hard disc 1 file can be up to a few Giga Byte.

GoPro HD1 or HD2 will limit a file to approx 3.66 GB and when video is more than 3.66GB , it will create a new file with same name but has 1 extra digit ( number 1 in front ) to the file name.

The Splash Lite player I use shows data rate in mega bit per second.
8 bit is one byte, memory card space speaks in byte. So 20 mbps of HD2 1080p at 90 degrees and 25 frame per second is =
20,000,000 bit per second divided by 8 =
2,500,000 bytes per second or 2.5MB per second. 1 GB gets you 400 seconds or 6.6 minutes in HD2 1080p 90 degrees and 25 FPS at highest data rate.

However, a GoPro uses a variable compression and you will see variable mbps reading with Splash Lite. So depending on how dynamic is the footage, it may use less memory space for certain footage and 21 mbps is the highest I have seen. The more action and colors and more light, the data rate is bigger......usually.

Rule of thumb is to use the biggest data rate the camera will produce to calculate memory space for the memory card.

In the old HD1, I can get approx 40 minutes per 3.66 GB file at 1080p 25 fps, or 1.55 MB per second of video. It is 16 mbps data rate at the most. 2 mega byte per second or 500 seconds per Giga Byte = 8.3 minutes per 1 GB at the highest data rate.

So a 16 GB memory card can take 130 minutes approx for 1080p at 127 degrees. 16GB memory card after formatting does not give you 16GB, it will be a bit less. All memory cards when formatted will loose a bit of the capacity.


In a 720p at 50 fps of HD1, approx 33 - 34 minutes per 3.66 GB file.

I have not measure the data rate of all the HD2 available format, I like 1080p best.

25 Frame rate per seconds is like 25 photos flashed to us in sequence in 1 second. So 25 still photos looks like a moving movie. Same with cinema 24 frame per seconds, there are 24 slides they showed us in 1 second. Each frame needs data storage, so in USA setting of 30 FPS or 60 FPS, you will eat up more memory card space per second compared to us in Asia or Europe choosing 25 FPS/50 FPS.

Get Splash Lite player for free and use the data rate feature to calculate.
Google it, is famous.

Hope this helps.
IYA

[greekdiver]

Nope, HD2 at 1080p Narrow or 90 degrees is approx 20 mbps while the 1080p at 127 degrees HD2 or HD1 is approx 16 mbps. So its about 2.5 mega byte per second for HD2 1080p narrow ( 90 degrees ). This is at 25 fps, at 30 fps it will be more data rate.

See photo test attached.

20% more memory for HD2 at 1080p 90 degrees/narrow is expected.
3.66 GB FAT 32 allowance per file. This will give approx 24.4 minutes of video per file at 25fps ( PAL setting ). I have not messed with the 720p though.

Will make a complete thread along with 4 different flat lens when I have more time.

Happy VIDEO-ing guys.......:D

Thanks for the correction. I usually burn 11gb with gopro1 hd at R5 and that is diving hard all day. So 20% more should still be fine especially for the average diver.

Lunkerbuster emailed gopro and said they will eventually release a firmware update to fix the FOV in other settings. Now, I wouldn't hold your breath on long that will take.

[aussie]

1 GB gets you 400 seconds or 6.6 minutes in HD2 1080p 90 degrees and 25 FPS at highest data rate.

So a 16 GB memory card can take 130 minutes approx for 1080p at 127 degrees. 16GB memory card after formatting does not give you 16GB, it will be a bit less. All memory cards when formatted will loose a bit of the capacity.

Get Splash Lite player for free and use the data rate feature to calculate.
Google it, is famous.

Hope this helps.
IYA

So basically I should get about 100min using 1080p 90d on the gopro2.

I downloaded splash lite. apart from checking data rate (which I'm not sure why I need) you just use it to playback?

I used Premiere to edit all my narrative films but it's since been giving me issues. What software do you guys use to cut?

Thanks again.

[greekdiver]

I use cyberlink powerdirector. It works fine. I am not going to use music anymore. Its a pain to find it and the music groups usually end up flagging my videos even after years later. Going with just natural sounds.

I guess if you are buying a gopro2 and never had a gropro1, buy a 32gb card. Make sure you do your research on which brand of card to buy. They are not all the same.

VLC is my favorite player.

[aussie]

I use cyberlink powerdirector. It works fine. I am not going to use music anymore. Its a pain to find it and the music groups usually end up flagging my videos even after years later. Going with just natural sounds.

I guess if you are buying a gopro2 and never had a gropro1, buy a 32gb card. Make sure you do your research on which brand of card to buy. They are not all the same.

VLC is my favorite player.

I use VLC for everything. Interesting re. music rights, I've got five films up and none have been flagged. Perhaps because I'm not using whole tracks. Try looking for obscure music on indie labels, those guys are usually pretty appreciative when it comes to using their music. And what about the links you see in videos where they now link the song to Itunes?

I'll see if I can find a bootleg of powerdirect if premiere decides not to work. Platform looks pretty similar.

Re. Cards. I was advised to buy 2x16gb in case one crashes you wont lose all your footage and apparently one battery wont last for a whole 32gb card anyway.

Buying the hero2 next week. Look forward to using it in Australia.

[IyaDiver]

I use VLC and Splash Lite and I think Windows player 12 ( come with windows 7 ).

Splash lite is the lightest for CPU burden. If you convert the GoPro MP4 to AVI in the free CineForm Studio, only Windows player 12 can handle the insane data rate of near 35-45 Mega byte per second, its sort of raw lossless codec but easy to edit.

I use Vegas Pro 10 for editing but me not a great editor:D

HD2 at 1080p 90degrees has more noise when in the dark. It is also so narrow ( sort of a 50mm lens on SLR ), camera movement is obvious. Unless you have very clear water, 127 degrees should be better. But best to try.

Have fun..:toast:

[aussie]

I'll give both a shot, thanks.

I just hate the wide angle shit, fish are so far away that half the time you can't see what the subject is shooting at. And when you do it looks bloody small.

[inshanity]

In the Gopro model comparison in the low light category it says the new model is "professional", as opposed to older models just being "standard". That would be the biggest appeal in buying the new model to me if its true. Anyone have an idea how much better it would be?

[aussie]

I saw a video somewhere comparing the low light vs standard while walking around a house. the low light was streaks ahead better in the darker conditions but lost contrast/saturation in the normal light. I guess for us that shouldn't be an issue.

[unkabonka]

This has been a good thread to read through, thanks for the insight guys. I ordered a Go Pro 2 last week, I had been intentionally holding off for a year for the next generation to come out. Bummer that according to greekdiver it will not shoot 720p 60fps 90 FOV... that would have been great.




I just hate the wide angle shit, fish are so far away that half the time you can't see what the subject is shooting at. And when you do it looks bloody small.

^ Totally agree, if I am shooting a trophy fish I don't want people asking, "so was that legal??" I imagine I will shoot mostly in 90 FOV, I used to use a flip underwater camera and I thought it was much more narrow FOV than go pro and it was much better viewing than most people's go pro videos (problem was the camera had to be really steady though).

[greekdiver]

HD2 at 1080p 90degrees has more noise when in the dark. It is also so narrow ( sort of a 50mm lens on SLR ), camera movement is obvious. Unless you have very clear water, 127 degrees should be better. But best to try.

Have fun..:toast:

I agree that 127 degrees is not that bad. 90 FOV will still be sweet especially with 60 fps if we ever get it. As you said, the movement will be more noticeable with a narrow FOV, but with 60 fps, the movement will be smooth and enjoyable even with a narrow FOV.

Btw, you should format your cards after each use.

[aussie]

thanks for the formatting tip. I tend to take my time with shots so the 50mm lens equiv should work for me. time will tell. i'll try and post somethin' up from oz late dec.

[unkabonka]

Looking at these video comparisons makes me nervous.... the Go Pro 2 seems to show things WAY greener underwater.

GoPro HD HERO vs. HD HERO2 Unterwasser Test #2 - YouTube
GoPro HD HERO vs. HD HERO2 Unterwasser Test #1 - YouTube


What do you guys think about putting on a red filter? Is that possible?

[greekdiver]

LoL goprohd1 looks better underwater.

[aussie]

Is there a white balance feature on the camera? This is really disconcerting.

i sent an email to gopro, will report with response.

[aussie]

check this out for another

Pesca subacquea : gopro hd hero 2 underwater test - YouTube

[greekdiver]

that one looks fine. Man, you 60fps will be so nice whenever they fix that option.

[IyaDiver]

90 degrees or narrow on 720p will be available with firmware upgrade.

HD2 is best to format ( DELETE ALL ) on the camera after you format it in a PC, or you will get SD ERR ( card error ). HD1 will take PC format and do not need camera DELETE ALL. PC formatting really clear everything including memory card registry and etc etc.

I have not dove in the sea with HD2, so far pool test only.

HD2 is better than HD1 but not twice, approx 20-30% in low light and in good light 15%.........I hope I quantify that correctly....:D
I mean you don't get twice better.

To get the best out of any GoPro underwater ( or any auto white balance camera ), do not turn it ON when in water. Turn it on on land, let it adjust its white balance properly and go then go underwater. This auto white balance and auto everything camera need a reference of "white". This "white" is found in typical daylight outdoor condition, so let it adjust for 30 or so seconds and take it underwater. Slowly it will adjust to the color loss at depth.

If one turn it on underwater at depth, it sometimes get confused to get its "white" reference, hence so much more blue or green, whatever the water color of the footage. In a manual capable white balance camera, people used white slate to lock in to "white" color and proceed recording after the camera locks on to that white reference and some do this per every 30 feet to get the best white balance.

Red filter is useless after 33 feet where red starts to disappear underwater at a mere 15-20 or so feet, unless your water viz is 100+ feet and very bright day. At 40+ feet, with no artificial lightning, blue is almost guaranteed. If you want more color, get a close up shoot and use powerful light.


Here is some HD1 footage at various depths.
The 10 feet depth sample is not very clear water, viz less than 40 feet, but it is so shallow , its bright

The other two sample is very clear water, at least 100 feet viz.

Have fun

[IyaDiver]

See the same 30 feet deep shot but taken from a distance, the fish color red can't be registered well because the auto setting will take the dominant blue color and also the more water distance between the lens and the red fish, the less the color red gets transmitted.

[aussie]

90 degrees or narrow on 720p will be available with firmware upgrade.

HD2 is best to format ( DELETE ALL ) on the camera after you format it in a PC, or you will get SD ERR ( card error ). HD1 will take PC format and do not need camera DELETE ALL. PC formatting really clear everything including memory card registry and etc etc.

Too clarify. Before shooting. First format on PC then reformat on camera?

[macsub]

To get the best out of any GoPro underwater ( or any auto white balance camera ), do not turn it ON when in water. Turn it on on land, let it adjust its white balance properly and go then go underwater. This auto white balance and auto everything camera need a reference of "white". This "white" is found in typical daylight outdoor condition, so let it adjust for 30 or so seconds and take it underwater. Slowly it will adjust to the color loss at depth.
Have fun

Another good tip, thanks.

[macsub]

Too clarify. Before shooting. First format on PC then reformat on camera?

I always format the card on the camera before start recording, just in case. And never had problems that way.

[jfjf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IyaDiver
To get the best out of any GoPro underwater ( or any auto white balance camera ), do not turn it ON when in water. Turn it on on land, let it adjust its white balance properly and go then go underwater. This auto white balance and auto everything camera need a reference of "white". This "white" is found in typical daylight outdoor condition, so let it adjust for 30 or so seconds and take it underwater. Slowly it will adjust to the color loss at depth.
Have fun


Question: If I want to start and stop filming during a long scuba dive, will it "remember the white balance" even though I stopped filming, just as long as I never turned the camera off ??

[IyaDiver]

Hi Jf,

It doesn't remember the auto white balance setting if camera is totally OFF, if it is ON but not recording, I think it should maintain the white balance because when we connect to an LCD screen, the footage is obviously auto adjusting for brightness and hence white balance even when not recording.

[IyaDiver]

Too clarify. Before shooting. First format on PC then reformat on camera?

I personally do not know what DELETE ALL ( or format ) in a GoPro does to memory card in terms of "cleanliness".

However, a PC format is as clean as you can get, so I choose to PC format always as first step and never have issue. Deleting all the files does not mean its clean. PC Formatting re-arrange all the sectors in the memory card and remove all the data we can't see, this is what I mean by totally clean.

On HD2 and I am using proven cards I been using on HD1, I need to do DELETE ALL ( format ) on the HD2 after PC formatting, or I will get SD ERR.

On HD1, a PC format on the memory card is enough, no need DELETE ALL in the camera.

There is one file in MISC folder of HD2 which HD2 placed, its a text file. There is no such text file in HD1 MISC folder.

The text file content for my HD2 is this :

{ "info version":"1.0", "firmware version":"HD2.08.12.38",
"camera type":"HD2",}

This could be the reason HD2 need DELETE ALL for memory card I have formatted in PC or a mean for HD2 to identify its memory card. I have not tried using a new card from a store on my HD2, I got so many existing memory cards from HD1.

You can take a memory card with video files from a HD2 an use it on a HD1 and it will work but you will get SD ERR when you do the opposite. This is what I get when I tried.


Do not share memory cards between few devices, unless formatted first to make sure its clean a 100%. One simple example, assume GoPro unit 1 last recording is at file 100.mp4. Then you use the same memory card on GoPro no 2, which its filing number was last at 99.mp4. The GoPro unit 2 will get confused when trying to record a video or take photo because it will need to make a file number 100.mp4 but its already inside the memory card.

The latest firmware for HD1 and the current HD2 is auto numbering, we don't get file number crash anymore when same file number is to be made but already existed in memory card, but I would not bet on it for total reliability.

Beware of Sony's device. If you share a GoPro memory card with a Sony device, it may plant a file for its memory stick management with IND extension. I have a friend who shared this way and his firmware on the HD1 got corrupted. We can re-flash firmware on HD1 ( GoPro website has it ) but there is no firmware available on HD2 from GoPro for re-flashing.

Always start totally clean for a memory card to be used on any device. Save you the headache.

IYA



IYA

[jfjf]

thanks!

[aussie]

Another thing to note re different fields of view. Is the gopro has one lens with no optical zoom. So when you get three different POV's in the gopro2 it's not like you have three physical lens. It's the software zooming into the image just as you would if you were to zoom in on your pc screen.

What this suggests to me (and I'm no tech geek) is as you zoom into any image, pending on the size of the file you'll get pixelation. Well if you zoom in on 720p footage on your gopro you're gonna get pixelation a hell of a lot quicker than on 1080p which may be the reason why you can't get 90 pov @ 720p.

Make sense?

Also, I've been told that the 90 pov is equiv to about a 14mm lens not 50 as suggested. Which is still bloody wide.

[aussie]

Looking at these video comparisons makes me nervous.... the Go Pro 2 seems to show things WAY greener underwater.

GoPro HD HERO vs. HD HERO2 Unterwasser Test #2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jykJbu_HNkk)
GoPro HD HERO vs. HD HERO2 Unterwasser Test #1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZZ9eP9e6Q)


What do you guys think about putting on a red filter? Is that possible?

Got this response from GOPRO

It is difficult for us to determine image quality issues underwater due to the difficult lighting conditions, as well as issues with focus underwater with the standard GoPro HD Housing. It appears likely that a flat lens adaptor was being used in this video, and that along could introduce discrepancies between cameras, especially as it was manufactured by a 3rd party and is not an official GoPro product. Different cameras will have different balance and exposure, so some variation in image is to be expected. Also, different resolutions can play a role as well. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Many Thanks,

GoPro Support

[unkabonka]

Got this response from GOPRO

It is difficult for us to determine image quality issues underwater due to the difficult lighting conditions, as well as issues with focus underwater with the standard GoPro HD Housing. It appears likely that a flat lens adaptor was being used in this video, and that along could introduce discrepancies between cameras, especially as it was manufactured by a 3rd party and is not an official GoPro product. Different cameras will have different balance and exposure, so some variation in image is to be expected. Also, different resolutions can play a role as well. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Many Thanks,

GoPro Support

Interesting, thanks for posting that.

I think the really greened up footage might be attributed to the white balance not being adjusted above water (as one poster here suggested is important)?? The one you posted (it was in Italian or something) showed some pretty decent footage with the GoPro2, although we didn't get a comparison. Also the German comparison was shot in green pondwater while the Italian one was blue ocean water.

I emailed their support basically chewing them out for messing up the listing of FOV and FPS in 720p, demanding a firmware update ASAP. I don't have the Go Pro 1 but if I get my GoPro2 in by Thursday I will do some CA diving footage on Thursday and post it up.

[IyaDiver]

Hi Aussie,

I am not camera expert too , but it is how a camera manipulate its pixel use to get the so called 720p or 1080p.

1080p x 1920 is the pixel for 1080p HD resolution, that is only approx 2 mega pixel required. HD1 has 5 MP and HD2 has 11 MP CMOS sensor.

Take a Canon 550D SLR, cheapo SLR unit that has 18 MP CMOS sensor. To get 1080p video, it does not use all the available pixels of the CMOS. The exact way of doing it, I dont know:D


Lens size does not tell you the angle of view of the lens per se, unless we reference to a known format. You must know other details like focal length , sensor size & etc etc, again I am not expert in that.:D

14mm on a full frame camera, yes, that is near fish eye wide angle but not on some other micro cameras. Read the section INFLUENCE OF LENS FOCAL LENGTH
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm

My apology, I have to correct my statement. Its not so wide angle for 90 degrees at 1080p for GoPro HD2, think of a 50 mm lens type of narrow field one finds on an SLR.


I think its best I give you a visual example.

Photo of this watch on HD2 is taken 2 feet away camera position.
I tried all , 90 degrees, 127 deg and 170 degrees

Next photo is from a Canon 550D which uses 18-55 lens. 1080p format used.
I tried 18mm and 55mm. Since the Canon is much bigger than the GoPro and I do the test table end to table end, the Canon sits approx 10-15 cm closer to the watch, based on Canon front lens.

Bear in mind this camera is not a full format digital SLR, meaning when compared to 35mm film SLR or the expensive full frame Canon 5D, this 550D camera has a crop factor of 1.6 or same lens will yield 1.6 time more magnification compared to 35mm film type traditional SLR camera. So at least you know the reference.

A camera which is not properly held and super lightweight like a GoPro, narrow field of view can be a disaster, too much video shake will result.

Have fun........

[IyaDiver]

Green water will yield green video for sure.

I shall show you one of the greenest water:D
http://npsfqqaltd.free.fr/Videos.html

Choose
http://vimeo.com/26826262

This guy custom made a button-less GP housing that can go 230 meter (759 feet ) and personally tested to 203 meter ( 669 feet ).


This is a clear water 70 meter dive, nice example
http://vimeo.com/11090400

This guy video is all taken with his GoPro and since there is no button on the housing ( that is why it is so waterproof to great depth ), he turned them on on land ahead of time.

I so happened to be lucky and got one of his deep water housing. 1 year wait, he only make it when he feel like it........:thumps: I tot one day I will drop this camera to deep water with chum bags and see what fishes will come:toast:


This is the best GP underwater video I have seen. Old but very good one in terms of video quality, water viz and level of brightness. I think 60 feet is the deepest.
http://vimeo.com/15273716


It is true for camera to perform differently even same brand and model.
I got the GoPro 3D housing and done test, minor auto brightness/white balance difference though , unless one gets really bad batch.

If land video is good and underwater is so green, the water must really be green and the guy did not turn on the camera while on the surface to seek "white" reference. I have scuba friends who got "green video" and tot the camera is faulty.;)

Here is a screen capture of green water from a friend. Water viz not more than 6meters and they are at approx 20 meter/66 feet.


Have fun.........

[aussie]

Hi Aussie,

A camera which is not properly held and super lightweight like a GoPro, narrow field of view can be a disaster, too much video shake will result.

Have fun........

This is great intel, thanks mate. Far above my level of expertise (which is why I shoot everything with Cinematographers!)

I'd love to see some tests using the 90 pov underwater. I'll have the cam rigged to a riffe euro and I tend to be pretty still when hunting aspetto but we'll just have to see. The 170 looks pretty much useless unless shooting yourself and the 127 looks good for subjects 3 feet or less unless using it for establishing shots or with pretty big subjects.

If you come across any more test footage with pov size listed please post!

Thanks again,

xo

[greekdiver]

The camera probably feels shaky in 90 FOV because it is in 30fps. I don't think it will be shaky with 60fps.

If it is still shaky, we can use 127 FOV with 60fps. That should work out great whenever they release the firmware.

[unkabonka]

Received reply today, re: firmware update:

We do apologize for any inconvenience, and do try to make it apparent on the product specifications and comparison pages that these are features to be added with a firmware update. Rest assured it is a top priority of our developers, and we hope to have it out very shortly. Be sure to check back on our page to learn when the update is available.

Many Thanks,

GoPro Support

[greekdiver]

Received reply today, re: firmware update:

They said the same thing about the firmware update for gopro1. I remember very well. :D

I hope it's true.

[unkabonka]

They said the same thing about the firmware update for gopro1. I remember very well. :D

I hope it's true.

It's out today: :cool:

http://gopro.com/support/hd-hero2-firmware-update/

[aussie]

It's out today: :cool:

http://gopro.com/support/hd-hero2-firmware-update/

What will the updates do again?

thanks.

[unkabonka]

What will the updates do again?

thanks.

Don't know with certainty as I will be installing it on my camera when it arrives tomorrow, but on their website it is implied this firmware update will allow for 127 and 90 degree FOV in 720p mode... it is not entirely clear if the update will enable 60FPS in those settings, although I imagine this is the case.

This page: http://gopro.com/product-comparison-hd-hero2-hd-hero-cameras/
you see those hidden little asterisks on the 720p row for the Hero2 that specify those features available with Hero2 firmware update, which it appears they released today.

[aussie]

nice. Should have mine by early next week.

[greekdiver]

Nice. I hope it updates everything. Ok someone update the camera and tell us if it works! :D

[IyaDiver]

I do not see any 720p with narrow in the V50 firmware update.
50 is the new firmware ending 2 digits number.

Too bad my HD2 went bananas on me before the firmware update and now still goes banana. The top button has its own life and like a phantom pushing it all the time :(

[unkabonka]

I do not see any 720p with narrow in the V50 firmware update.
50 is the new firmware ending 2 digits number.

Too bad my HD2 went bananas on me before the firmware update and now still goes banana. The top button has its own life and like a phantom pushing it all the time :(

Come on... really? What was the point of the update then?

[aussie]

I do not see any 720p with narrow in the V50 firmware update.
50 is the new firmware ending 2 digits number.

Too bad my HD2 went bananas on me before the firmware update and now still goes banana. The top button has its own life and like a phantom pushing it all the time :(

Damn, I'd be changing that shit out quick smart.

[IyaDiver]

This is great intel, thanks mate. Far above my level of expertise (which is why I shoot everything with Cinematographers!)

I'd love to see some tests using the 90 pov underwater. I'll have the cam rigged to a riffe euro and I tend to be pretty still when hunting aspetto but we'll just have to see. The 170 looks pretty much useless unless shooting yourself and the 127 looks good for subjects 3 feet or less unless using it for establishing shots or with pretty big subjects.

If you come across any more test footage with pov size listed please post!

Thanks again,

xo

If you are used to heavy or stabilized camera for your land based film, you will find the GoPro fun to use.......hehehe:D

I used to use Amphibico housing with Sony TRV900 and that is so big, but now the GoPro is sooooo small. Worse location to place is one's head, since hunters scan the horizon like car's wiper, viewer get headache watching it. But headstrap for snow skiing is cool because user concentrate on the path he is skiing and stable video actually.

[IyaDiver]

Well it could be 3D ready HD2 upgrade, but me only has 1 HD2 and can't test.
It could be some other bugs they learnt and we dont know of.

Let me get another new HD2 and update the firmware and see what is new about V50 firmware.

One thing for sure now is, it seems firmware update is faster than HD1, so improvement should come fast.

[unkabonka]

Well it could be 3D ready HD2 upgrade, but me only has 1 HD2 and can't test.
It could be some other bugs they learnt and we dont know of.

Let me get another new HD2 and update the firmware and see what is new about V50 firmware.

One thing for sure now is, it seems firmware update is faster than HD1, so improvement should come fast.


Off GoPro facebook:

"Eyeofmine Multimedia: We're not able to make it work with 3D with firmware upgrade :("

I installed the firmware today, did not notice any difference.

Here is my contribution to Hero 2 testing. The sun never came out today so I just went down to the dock and filmed my pet bait :D

http://youtu.be/6Z-aRxDiOpY?hd=1

[aussie]

Very interesting how much the image deteriorated @ narrow fov. Wonder what it would have looked like at 60fps?

[unkabonka]

Very interesting how much the image deteriorated @ narrow fov. Wonder what it would have looked like at 60fps?

Yeah, I think 127medium is best, you will notice in 170wide there was vignetting even after I installed the Mako flat lense today. It would be nice to get 127 in 720p @ 60 FPS...at this point I'm not sure how well 90narrow would be because it's noticeably more granular of a capture. Would like to get some capture with greater distance to judge it. But it looks like I will mostly be shooting in 127medium in 1080p until they update the firmware properly.

[aussie]

Yeah, I think 127medium is best, you will notice in 170wide there was vignetting even after I installed the Mako flat lense today. It would be nice to get 127 in 720p @ 60 FPS...at this point I'm not sure how well 90narrow would be because it's noticeably more granular of a capture. Would like to get some capture with greater distance to judge it. But it looks like I will mostly be shooting in 127medium in 1080p until they update the firmware properly.

How far away was the lens from the bait fish. It was hard to tell but it didn't look to be more than 2'?

[unkabonka]

Yeah that's right about 2-2.5 feet. Another thing is I was feeding them catfood in the last two shots so the water clouded up with particulates and may give impression of lower quality.... but the 90 FOV definitely appears more grainy--- that being said it is not terrible but just less sharp than other FOVs

[aussie]

Yeah that's right about 2-2.5 feet. Another thing is I was feeding them catfood in the last two shots so the water clouded up with particulates and may give impression of lower quality.... but the 90 FOV definitely appears more grainy--- that being said it is not terrible but just less sharp than other FOVs

And that makes perfect sense because as we have learned it's not an optical zoom but a digital one. So in essence all we're doing is zooming into the picture hence the graininess.

The issue is we're not going to be shooting fish from 2'. What we really need to ascertain is what the subject looks like at 8, 10, 12'.

With any luck I'll have mine by Monday so maybe I can do some testing. Alas the water quality is going to be the deciding factor.

[unkabonka]

OK, I downloaded your firmware update and it did not seem to change anything. When will a firmware update that allows for 3 FOVs in 720p be out??

Thank you- Me



The most recent firmware update was to correct some bugs with the camera. The firmware to enable the other resolutions is currently under testing with our development team, to be sure that it is fully functional and without issues. Please be on the lookout for the update, and we apologize for any inconvenience. -GoPro

[IyaDiver]

And that makes perfect sense because as we have learned it's not an optical zoom but a digital one. So in essence all we're doing is zooming into the picture hence the graininess.

The issue is we're not going to be shooting fish from 2'. What we really need to ascertain is what the subject looks like at 8, 10, 12'.

With any luck I'll have mine by Monday so maybe I can do some testing. Alas the water quality is going to be the deciding factor.


I also notice in less than very optimum light condition , 1080p 90deg has more noise. In very bright condition, hard to spot it.

[greekdiver]

unkabonka,

That is how a lot of the smaller companies do business. They release a product, generate income, and polish it afterwards. It is way cheaper to do it this way.

I'd be surprised as I was before if the software upgrade is out soon (less than 2 months).

They used to do this with online computer games all the time. Release a product that is halfway done(usually playable enough), generate income, people wait, and eventually they get the finished polished product through updates.

Guidelines have to be met also. They have to ship this camera out before Christmas, or they lose a lot of money. Even if they ship out a product that is not fully fuctionable, it still must go out. Its too much revenue to be lost.

[aussie]

unkabonka,

That is how a lot of the smaller companies do business. They release a product, generate income, and polish it afterwards. It is way cheaper to do it this way.

I'd be surprised as I was before if the software upgrade is out soon (less than 2 months).

It's a moot point. If we can't get satisfactory results w/ 90 pov in 1080p why would we bother with 720p?

[unkabonka]

It's a mute point. If we can't get satisfactory results w/ 90 pov in 1080p why would we bother with 720p?

I would like 127fov in 720p.... and for me the jury is still out on the 90 FOV. Would like to get longer distance underwater footage in blue water in good light before passing final judgement.

[aussie]

I would like 127fov in 720p.... and for me the jury is still out on the 90 FOV. Would like to get longer distance underwater footage in blue water in good light before passing final judgement.

Agreed.

[greekdiver]

It's a mute point. If we can't get satisfactory results w/ 90 pov in 1080p why would we bother with 720p?

because you cannot shoot 1080 in 60fps and in 720, you will be able too.

[rogerkamp8817]

Just got an HD Hero 2 for my birthday! I ordered a flat lens. Hopefully I get some good shots.

[aussie]

Just got an HD Hero 2 for my birthday! I ordered a flat lens. Hopefully I get some good shots.

Now hurry up and get some test footage!

[rogerkamp8817]

Here's my first video! Original lens, 720 resolution at 60 FPS. I'm going to bump it up to 960 at 48 FPS next time.

11/19/11 Spearfishing - Orange County, California - YouTube

[unkabonka]

Here's my first video! Original lens, 720 resolution at 60 FPS. I'm going to bump it up to 960 at 48 FPS next time.

11/19/11 Spearfishing - Orange County, California - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX0KOZuUWcw)

hard to tell about quality with the curved/original lense... it really messes things up. Are you getting a mako or eye of mine lense? good vis though.

[rogerkamp8817]

Yes, I ordered it Friday night from speardeals so it should be here early this week i hope.

[aussie]

hard to tell about quality with the curved/original lense... it really messes things up. Are you getting a mako or eye of mine lense? good vis though.

I'm more interested in seeing the med lens over the res bump. The super wide looks amazing above water but I really have no desire to use it below, unless perhaps I'm 12" away from a bug.

Do you find it easy to turn on/off while it was on your head?

I get mine on Monday although I'm not sure when I'll be able to dive next.

[rogerkamp8817]

Yes, it was easy to turn on and off. Just make sure you learn the beeps before you take it out diving. You don't want to hold the on button too long when you turn it on because it will change from video to camera mode. Learn the listen to the beeps so when you take it out, you will know if you are in the right mode or not and if you are recording or not recording.

The wide angle is nice because you do not have to be super careful about how the camera is aiming when it sits on your head. I'm sure with experience, you will be able to better feel by hand where the camera is aiming so you can use the other non-wide angle modes. Also, there were a lot of shadows under the kelp and it seemed to film just fine (minus the clarity due to the round lens).

[aussie]

The wide angle is nice because you do not have to be super careful about how the camera is aiming when it sits on your head. I'm sure with experience, you will be able to better feel by hand where the camera is aiming so you can use the other non-wide angle modes.

I'm gonna rock the gun mount. I prefer the steady shot, especially when using a longer (digital) lens. I wont be able to test out the full rig till I get to Australia in Dec. But I'll try to do some head mount tests for you guys.

[Dangerous]

I use cyberlink powerdirector. It works fine. I am not going to use music anymore. Its a pain to find it and the music groups usually end up flagging my videos even after years later. Going with just natural sounds.

I guess if you are buying a gopro2 and never had a gropro1, buy a 32gb card. Make sure you do your research on which brand of card to buy. They are not all the same.

VLC is my favorite player.
Powerdirector 9 and 10 add music loops royalty free BTW the 64 bit is really fast. A goodly number of loops come free with software.

[Dangerous]

http://cheesycam.com/snake-river-prototyping-blurfix-gopro-hd/

This flat lens adapter does not vignette in R3 (720p60fps) and takes photographic filters

[aussie]

http://cheesycam.com/snake-river-prototyping-blurfix-gopro-hd/

This flat lens adapter does not vignette in R3 (720p60fps) and takes photographic filters

I have one ordered. I'll post some results asap.

[rogerkamp8817]

i used pinnacle studios. youtube flagged my video and said they can't show it in germany. facebook deletes my upload as soon as its completed.

[greekdiver]

Powerdirector 9 and 10 add music loops royalty free BTW the 64 bit is really fast. A goodly number of loops come free with software.

thanks ill get the latest version.

[dushanbe]

Anyone know when flat lens housing will hit the shelves?

[aussie]

Anyone know when flat lens housing will hit the shelves?

You should seriously look in to BlurFix's (http://www.snakeriverprototyping.com/BlurFix.html) Flat lens.

[aussie]

Two questions.

1. If you were only going to shoot the wide angle. Would you do 720p @60fps or 1080p?
2. I did the firmware update, got some software pertaining to making 3d videos I think and promptly deleted it. I don't think it had anything to do with the actual camera? Did I do something wrong?

[greekdiver]

update didnt fix anything that we need :)

[unkabonka]

Two questions.

1. If you were only going to shoot the wide angle. Would you do 720p @60fps or 1080p?


Consensus is that for most anything besides TV display, 720p is best. You can't tell the difference between the two on a computer screen and youtube/vimeo uploads. Better to have the faster frame rate.

[aussie]

Hey guys,

This is a great comparison of all the options on the hero2.

http://youtu.be/KZsykO1lXkU

[Dangerous]

Hey guys,

This is a great comparison of all the options on the hero2.

http://youtu.be/KZsykO1lXkU

Great illustration of the GoPro low light compensation, the sides of the room are better lit but at the expense of a hot spot on the wall from the light reflection.

Most of the GoPro (including mine) gets a hot spot if you point it towards the surface and sometimes off scuba tanks.

[aussie]

I tested all settings with my gun mount yesterday. the 90 pov is pretty much useless. the med is doable. I focused on a bucket at 10-12' away with all three views and it's a tragedy that the the clearest picture is the worst angle.

[Sean E]

PM sent aussie

[Disco]

Im sorry guys but I just read this entire thread twice and I even took notes but im still lost. I was hoping to figure out what to set my go pro hero at before I go out. Im ordering a flat lens right away and will make sure to let the camera run out of the water before diving to get the white set right. But what should I set the camera to??? And I read a few people mentioning the cameras depth abilities... is there a max depth for the hero? I freedive and dont expect to ever get below 100ft? Thanks for the help!!!

[unkabonka]

Im sorry guys but I just read this entire thread twice and I even took notes but im still lost. I was hoping to figure out what to set my go pro hero at before I go out. Im ordering a flat lens right away and will make sure to let the camera run out of the water before diving to get the white set right. But what should I set the camera to??? And I read a few people mentioning the cameras depth abilities... is there a max depth for the hero? I freedive and dont expect to ever get below 100ft? Thanks for the help!!!

1080p Medium is the best setting so far for U/W shooting.

Max depth on the camera is not relevant for freedive spearfishing really.

[Disco]

Is it just that simple? 1080p medium? Is that a setting within the camera?

[unkabonka]

Is it just that simple? 1080p medium? Is that a setting within the camera?

Yes... it is meant to be simple... ;) Use the interface display to toggle through the multiple options available to you.
http://spearboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165246&d=1324878796

[Disco]

Well that's awesome thank-you very much!!! Does it matter that its not the hero2? I'm going with the mako flat lens for now due to the cost of the one I like with the filter options. I just gotta figure out how I want to use it freediving. Obviously holding it is simplest. I wanted to mask mount it but there is no frame on my micromask.


Shit just looked it does matter I have the coded lcd

[unkabonka]

Well that's awesome thank-you very much!!! Does it matter that its not the hero2? I'm going with the mako flat lens for now due to the cost of the one I like with the filter options. I just gotta figure out how I want to use it freediving. Obviously holding it is simplest. I wanted to mask mount it but there is no frame on my micromask.


Shit just looked it does matter I have the coded lcd

Oh, in that case you are working with something different. Read the instruction manual (http://www.epirbhire.com.au/GoPro%20Images/GoPro%20instructions.PDF) and also reference this thread: http://goprouser.freeforums.org/stickie-what-mode-should-i-use-t251.html

Go for 127 degree angle which is r5.

[Disco]

Thankyou