When to load speargun? before or after

[N Debt Diver]

Some people say load it before you dive off,some say not until your atleast 6ft under the boat.

[f94gator]

I never load a gun on the boat. Always on the descent.

[loOse1]

load ot of the water! When I was a kid my dads buddy had a loaded gun out of the water. He dropped it. It went off and hit his pregnant wife in the stomach. Fortunately it didn't penetrate and glanced off. Very sobering to this day.

[junior]

I've seen guys launch spearguns into the drink after a band snapped while trying to load them on the boat:D Load in the water is safer.

[dlock]

load it at the line before you descend

[biggsy]

Load it in the water...

[Marcus]

Originally posted by junior
I've seen guys launch spearguns into the drink after a band snapped while trying to load them on the boat:D Load in the water is safer.

And just who might you be referring to??? Mmmmm? :D

[Spear One]

I predominantly freeshaft..........I never load the gun until I can see the bottom.

However.........never, never, ever, load a speargun in the boat!

[Bill McIntyre]

Here is a story that appeared on the freedivelist two days ago. Of course this was a large gun and the guys were shooting it intentionally, but it shows the potential for harm from a speargun cocked out of the water.
**************************
Mori and I spent thanksgiving at the Tehachapi
sportsman club rifle range shooting a speargun. He
had a slightly trashed 72 in 3/8 shaft and wanted to
see how far it would go. He forgot to bring his
speargun when he showed up at my place so we took a 63
inch gun with 6 bands that I had taken to New Zealand
a couple of years ago. It still has the old bands on
it and they are 9/16 bands (he called em 'wimpy
bands') but that was right after I had shoulder
surgery from my great mexican prison adventure and was
happy just to be able to cock the thing at that point
in time if I remember correctly. Anyway with just the
'wimpy bands' the thing went almost completly out of
sight and 450 feet down range. We shot it at least 6
times and 430-450 feet was the norm (he wrote it all
down) Then he wanted to shoot at the 50 yard target
stand ... I stupidly voluntered to shoot it and I
remember that it
never kicked much in the water and I would shoot it
with one hand ... so for whatever reason I put the
butt of it on my chest and aimed at the target and
pulled the trigger ... WHOAAAOOOOOO! I thought a mule
kicked me in the chest, so I guess that even if it
only recoils about an inch ... that inch is really
dynamite ... as I am walking about trying to get my
breath and composure back Mori runs down to the target
and yells 'Its Stuck!!' The target stand is 3
telephone poles stuck in the ground with 2 sheets of
plywood between them that you are supposed to staple
your target to. The shaft hit the middle pole and
went at least 5 inches into it. We couldnt pull the
damn thing out so we drove the truck down there and
hooked it to the shaft and still couldnt pull it out.
We spent 45 minutes getting nowhere and the sun was
going down and it was getting pretty darn cold when we
decided to bend it over and start turning it around
like a big crank ... finally we got it out ... totally
trashed with a right angle bend in the end of it. Its
easy to see why you shouldnt try this in a city ...
you would probably skewer some poor sap a couple of
blocks away ... and I learn again the hard way why not
to putt the butt on your chest ...

kitto
Palmdale CA


_____________________________________

[WonderBoy]

As a boat captain myself, the very idea of a loaded speargun in the boat is the easiest way to never be allowed back on my boat. Always load on descent or on the bottom...

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by WonderBoy
As a boat captain myself, the very idea of a loaded speargun in the boat is the easiest way to never be allowed back on my boat. Always load on descent or on the bottom...

Not to quibble over the small stuff, but loading on the descent or on the bottom is a bit of a chore for those of us who freedive. However, we should definitely wait until in the water and point the gun away from the boat while loading.

When I lived in Hawaii in the early 1960s I dove with some locals who had a rather militant attitude toward guys who came back to the boat and tried to hand up a loaded speargun. They would take the gun, hit the guy as hard as they could on the head with it, and then throw it as far as they could. That was a bit harsh, but it sure did convey the message.

[WonderBoy]

I am not a freediver so I would certainly not presume to comment on any practices for you guys. I can imagine that effort taken to load the gun on descent or on the bottom would rob you of bottom time. I was merely commenting on SCUBA and should have clarified that! I would like to hear other opinions on safe procedures for freedivers....
I had one instance where a loaded gun was brought back on the boat and believe me, I wasn't happy about it....
....the problem was that it was me that forgot to unload the gun.... :)

[from the sea]

i buddy of mine tryed to load his gun on the boat, it sliped off his hip, and slamed into his balls, i laughed, but i dont have much room to talk, becuse when i was 14 i did the same thing when i was diveing the 7 mile bridge, if that dont teach you a lesson, i dont know what will.`

[Pipe 45]

In the water........................

[Freedro]

All of this gun safety stuff is great. I think the most important thing is to treat a loaded gun as if it were, well... A LOADED GUN!!! There are conditions while freediving that dictate, for me at least, that the gun will be loaded on the boat. These generally involve any sort of live boat dive including diving pinnacles, bait balls, paddies, and reefs or points in high-current situations. Sometimes the diver will load the gun while seated on the swimstep with the muzzle pointing away from the boat and occupants just before entering the water. Sometimes the boatman will load the gun and hand it (all the time pointed in a safe direction) to the diver. (this would disqualify any IUSA record fish)

Here's the point of this. If I'm hunting quail or pheasants, I don't wait til I see them to load the gun. Hunters walk around in the field all the time with loaded weapons traversing all types of obstacles, climbing, descending steep grades, and sometimes even running over rugged terrain to keep up with the dogs. When I jump in on a paddy, the last thing I want to see is an overly-curious mako shark and me with an unloaded gun. Second to this is a big yellowtail or mahi swimming away while I'm trying to load my gun. Same for groupers swimming away while I'm dropping in on a reef or point with a stiff current. You just don't get that second chance at the element of surprise. If I was so damned concerned about safety that I wouldn't load a gun on the swimstep or in the stern of the boat, then I sure as hell wouldn't be jumping off of a perfectly good boat into a living food chain of bait infested water that is 3,000 feet deep that I can't see into. Same goes for anyone I would be diving with under those circumstances. I use a Riffe gun for these type of ops. Along with a lot of power and range it has a positive-engagement safety pin. I have disassembled the gun and examined the safety and trigger mechanism. Unless the spear shears off, this gun will not fire with the pin in. The gun IS unloaded before it is brought back to the boat. Occasionally a diver will hand up a gun that is still loaded, but I have never seen one come on my boat pointed in an unsafe direction.

Bottom line... Use common sense and safe gun handling practices. Make no mistake, we're not fishing here, we're hunting. Keep that weapon pointed in a safe direction at all times.

[bottomnout]

If the current is really bad on the rigs we will load the gun on the boat, some times, or if your buddy jews you out and rolls out the boat early and no one is left in the boat i'll load it. i do not encourage loading on the boat but loading a huge riffe in ripping current while trying to reach the rig can be a bit tricky no matter how many times you have done it, getting swept out of a rig with no one seeing what happened can be a very messed up situation. There is no worst feeling than coming up from a dive and wating for a fellow diver who never shows up and there is no where in site on the horizon. There are certain situations where loading on the boat is acceptable to some people.

But there is never any need to come back to the boat with a loaded, NEVER. Its usually a rookie mistake that sould be corrected once and the next time it happens toss the guys gun as far as you can.
jn

[frogman]

My opinion is that there is too much danger to leave a loaded gun on deck. All it takes is somebody to carelessly step on it and it will go off puncturing your hull or even worse, somebody's leg. Sometimes we will load the gun while sitting on the gunnel right before we jump in but the tip has to be pointed down towards the water. The gun will be unloaded before you get on the boat. If you come on my boat, don't even think of leaving a loaded gun on deck. BTW, I am a freediver.

[Bahiano]

I support water loading. Much safer.

[LASeaCat]

Bottomnout and anyone else who may dive on my boat, NO LOADED SPEARGUNS ON The Getaway!!! (Remember, I've been shot before! Underwater at 100 ft. made it even more interesting!)

We take enough chances going down to depths I won't mention. Loading a gun on the boat is just a chance we don't have to take because we may miss a fish opportunity!

Additionally, many custom guns come without safetys! You don't have much control over what you gun does for a split second when you roll off the boat!

Be safe......

[FredT]

Originally posted by LASeaCat
Additionally, many custom guns come without safetys! You don't have much control over what you gun does for a split second when you roll off the boat!

Be safe......

It's time for my soap box again.

ANY gun that is not safe enough by design or maintanance condition to be loaded in the boat is not safe enough to dive with in any conditions where two or more divers are in the water!

That said I'll generally load underwater except where the conditions, critters and currents require a loaded gun at the get-go. In those conditions the gun is between my knees pointing up, tip off, and the backward roll immediately rolls the tip to a point down condition while my negatively buoyant entry condition will put me 10' down and accelerating before the bubbles clear. With a 7' long gun it is really hard to loose control of the direction the shaft is pointing. If the gunnel height or boat configuration precludes a backward roll then a foreward roll entry is called for, and again the shaft simply sweeps the vertical plane perpendicular to the horizon.

Boat rules also apply. If I don't feel the dive is safe entering unloaded and cocking on the way down, and the boat rules say no loading on deck, then it's my choice to stay on deck.

FT

[WonderBoy]

I want to hear this story of LASeaCat being shot! I must have missed that! Is there a thread for it?!?!?

[bottomnout]

Yea very true David no loading on the getaway but on Rock Bottom's boat anything goes ;). Was it George who got shiskabobed rolling off the boat?, I would have paid money to have seen that shit. I bet he was pissed.

[Chad Carney]

Pneumatic gun users are often the worst offenders of the "no loaded gun in the boat rule." Out of laziness, because they don't want to have to remove the spear to unload, (the only way to do it), and have the line trip off; many pnematic shooters will bring their guns into the boat loaded. They'll tell you "it's OK it's on safety"...BS!!!! I've seen loaded pneumatics mounted on the underside of big band guns, to divers legs, and attached to tanks on divers backs. (I won't have it on my boat! Or around me!)

There is no reason for any scuba diver to load in the boat, ever!
The same goes for powerheads. I've had a diver get shot by his own PH on one of my boats. Everybody on this board for more than a year knows Financial Advisors PH story.

But I freedive a lot too, and have seen the need to preload, but only rarely. When towing behind a moving boat, you can't slip in and then load...if you do the boat will be gone.
I watched a big gun with two loaded bands go off, (facing outboard), and the stock hit the freediver in the stomach while reaching to load the third band. Aside from getting the wind knocked out, the diver was luckily not injured.
I've also seen an unnoticed loaded gun go off in a boat, causing much damage to the boat, but fortunately not to anybody in it .

I think as freedivers many of us have gotten complacent about loading in the boat, because its nice to relax and breathe up while remaining on the transom or gunwale, when we really don't need to do it.

I once sold a speargun to a young lad for Christmas. After the Holiday he brought it back... said his mom would not let him keep it. The gun was all scraped up, about as bad as his face I guessed, because it was half covered in bandages. He told me that after the kick from the gun stock hit him, it skipped across the driveway and put a big dent in his dad's car door. (He did hit that palm tree though!)
I gave him a full refund, figuring he had already caught enough grief!

None of us need any more grief either!

Chad

[LASeaCat]

Fred T - Not speaking about quality I'm talking about the chance that some part of your gear catches the trigger. I've seen all the gear the Florida divers wear!!

Bottomnout - George got stabbed by an unloaded gun, by the Riffe shaft without the tip on and on his own boat! That will teach him to go first and diss his company! It could have been much worse. It could have hit him in the head and bent Mike's shaft!

But seriously, stuff happens!

[fizisition]

Originally posted by LASeaCat
I've seen all the gear the Florida divers wear!!



lol

[SpearDiverTampa]

Hector used to do it, and it would always scare the shit out of me.
-Chris

[LASeaCat]

Hey Fiz,

Nice bean bags! Too many choices for us Cajuns! Hope to purchase a couple soon!

Nice diving with you before the St. Pete with Chad.

later............

[bfsc]

Load in the water. From experience we've had guns miss fire and lost free shafts that way and had guns get shot into the water will line shafting. Luckly we were able to jump in and grab the guns before they sank. Now we alway load our gun in the water. Also a friend of mine that does load there guns in the boat just had a gun shoot into his boat, no major damage just a little hole on the inside, but what if someone was standing in front of the gun? The only exception for us is mabe freediving depending on the situation.

[normanhghntr]

The only time ive loaded on board (freediving) was in shallow crystal clear water big grouper or muttons would have been gone if i loaded in the water, other then that never.
how about storage ? rough water? do you guys swim safty on or off? hands around bands or on or off trigger??
Chad i wouldnt want to fall on one of your guns what do you have like 15 shafts on those things??:)

[mcjaret]

As a young teen, I saw a small pneumatic accidentally discharge on deck. Shaft went right under his buddy's leg and wound up hanging out both sides of a 2x4. Would have ruined a weekend dive trip for a bunch of people if the muzzle direction had been a couple of inches different. If I can reload for the second shot underwater, I can surely load the first time in the drink.

[Chad Carney]

Norman,

Sorry I haven't been back to this thread and didn't see your questions.

Yeah I'm coming out with a new Quiver and calling it the Gattling model!:D

Really I only use three spears when very deep, in big fish country, or both. Headhunter, uses 4 sometimes. Dan was telling me I'd need the third spear some day and he was right. I only got the attached fish because I found a third, usable freehaft in the hole that a buddy had lost a few weeks earlier. It's my biggest black to date...115 lbs. gutted. Would have been a shame to have left him there.

I cover the trigger guard with my finger, right over the trigger, like you would your brake pedal when you anticipate a stop coming up, unless the shot is seconds away, then it's on the trigger. No safety on board, never loaded in the boat, almost always loaded underwater.

Happy Diving New Year!
Chad

[Spear One]

Loading a speargun in the boat is a recipe for disaster!

[Chad Carney]

Bugged,

Dan MacMahon's 92 lbs carbo was shot on the same two day trip.
He expected a smaller gag he had shot just earlier and had his band on the first notch. It took three shots and quite a chase to finish this beast.

The story's in the Summer of 2001 Spearfishing Magazine. It was during our TDI trimix course that summer. 175' to 195' in the Elbow.

Chad

[sacha58]

We never keep a loaded speargun in the boat, as freedivers we load the gun as soon as in the water and unload it before getting in the boat. Some people had the habit of keeping a loded small speargun under the float.........after an ascent staring at it and hoping it would not release.......they lost the habit ;-)
OT: spearfishing on scuba is forbidden in most of the Med countries, but looking at your fishes makes me crave for some "illegal" practice.....I'll get in touch with Chad for a course next time in Florida ;-))

[Spearo_Fla]

Sometimes we load in the boat sitting on the swim platform getting ready to get in. Mostly, we unload before returning to the boat, but if we don't then the gun is placed so the shaft is pointed upwards and back away from everyone.

Safety is a concern for everyone and I see this thread has good replies both for Scuba and freedivers. There is always a possiblity that a gun can misfire, so bringing this to everyones attention should help minimize any unseen events.

[Calispear]

i agree with wha Freedro said treat a speargun as if it were a loaded gun because it is and it can do a lot of harm if it were to go off and hit someone.

[Ed Walker]

Somehow I got into the habit of loading my gun as I was sitting on the gunnel just before hopping in on occasion. Im not sure why, something seemed a little easier. Well a few trips back as I sat on the tall gunnels of Rabispears' World Cat, feet over the side, a wave hit us as I had both arms pulling the second band back. With nothing to break my fall I did an unplanned backward roll...into the cockpit, flat on my back, loaded 130 Rabitech in hand. My biggest fear was as I fell was the loaded gun and I kept it pointed away from everyone as I took my penalty slam. Never again.

[GeauxSaints]

Hit the water with extra weight and full LP 120s, totally deflate your BC and load as you sink like a rock.

You'll have to be ready to be Death From Above, though because you're gonna get to that big Cubera before than anyone else is done taklin' with their buddy.

The extra weight comes in handy 'cause dead fish float and your tank gets more bouyant. And you will have more fish...without shafting a hull or a pal.

[Capt.Gene]

Cobia's can make people do stooopid stuf. Last summer a customer fired his big SeaHornet from the dive platform, at a big cobe on the surface not far away. Put his eye close to the gun to better sight in and promptly pushed his fron teeth half way down his throat with the gun butt.
$6000 later he can go out in public again.
Lock your elbow if shooting out of the water.

[Wayward Son]

FWIW, I'm hunting on scuba right now. I wait & load the gun when I hit bottom, and I unload it before starting my ascent. I don't like the notion of having a loaded gun on the line when someone may be on it below me, and I don't like having a loaded one above me, either.

Even if freediving, I'll wait and load after I'm in the water. No fish is worth putting a spear through one of my dive buddies.

[LSUBigL]

I unload my gun every morning before heading to work :D

Seriously, only seldom will I load a gun on the boat. Once I was the "deck hand" for my brothers because I had to fly later that day, and we were bounce diving rigs in 50 feet of water. I was the only one of the boat and would load for them, with the safety on. They would come up with a snapper, give me the old gun, and I'd have a fresh one waiting for them. They were only shooting with 2 bands. For whatever reason, it does seem that the gun is more prone to wiggle off your hip when loading it out of the water, so I'm extra careful. In normal situations, if current and waves aren't too bad, I enter the water, swim over to a rig leg, load the gun with the safety on, and then descend. Too many times I have been caught off guard with an unloaded gun as I approach some nice schools of fish shallower than expected.

I never ascend with a loaded gun. If I can't shoot anything, I'll usually try some super long shot at a sheepshead or mangrove just for fun. Most of hte time I miss.

[Boca Boy]

I never ever load my gun until both my knees are on the bottom and im sure my buddys behind me or above me (I scuba only).

[granitedive]

Loading a gun on a boat? No way, ever! A diver in Monterey was paralyzed for life a few years ago when his buddy forgot to unload before he set his gun on top of his kayak after the dive. I guess maybe, if you guys do it regularly there may be a routine way of safe onboard loading, but frankly this is the first time I've ever even heard of such a thing. Yow!

[Grunt]

I feel as if there is NEVER any excuse to bring a loaded gun on board. Too risky to the people on board. As for loading out of the water. I suppose I can see how loading it off a dive platform might be advantageous, but I still don't agree with it. Cliche but, safety first! :D

-A

[rmo8jlt69]

fellow spearos those are some really good stories some of you posted about speargun accidents out of the water. I got the cream of all stories.


My buddy lives on Little Torch Key, we were into some heavy drinking one night. His dumbass roomate just put three power bands on his 52 sea hornet. ( dont ask why he had three bands on hes not quite bright) He loads it in the house and tells us he is going to fire it off in the backyard at my friends baitbucket. We yell at him to unload it and sit down becauce hes an idiot and its dangerous and that was the only bait bucket we had at the time. Well I didnt see it; I was indside, but I did hear muffled screaming. He sholdered his gun like a rifle and when it went off the end of the spear somehow popped up into his jaw and into his uppergum and lip before hitting his target ( our only bait bucket). He came into the house with blood all over the front of his shirt, and porring from his mouth. we were all to drunk to take him to fishermans hospital so we just laughed at him. My friend was more concerned with his baitbucket than our friends face. lol

[HotShot]

being a freediver. whats the easiest way to load a gun in the water?

[Louis Rossignol]

I have been hunting all my life. My dad taght me, you can't kill anything with your gun on saftey.

I've learned never point any weapon at something you don't want to kill.

It is a little disturbing to me when Mark hand me his loaded gun at the surface with 3- 3/4" bands. If it were to go off and not hit me, It has the potential to still break an arm or leg. But when I'm on his boat he is the captain. But we do load on the boat. Now.

I never used to before I started diving with this guy. And to me that was an advantage because I can load and swim at the same time.

Do you load on the boat? It depends on who you're diving with. If someone constantly points a weapon at you accidientally, duck, dodge and yell at them. If they can't do any better, dive with someone else.

[Behslayer]

Some questions are answered by opinions. This one is not. Load guns in the water. A misfire or accidental launching of the shaft is dangerous both in and out of the water. Out of the water.. The shaft hits the end of the rope and can come straight back at you..

[Louis Rossignol]

Some questions are answered by opinions. This one is not. Load guns in the water. A misfire or accidental launching of the shaft is dangerous both in and out of the water. Out of the water.. The shaft hits the end of the rope and can come straight back at you..

We use riding rigs. I had a gun go off on the boat and it launched my shaft about 100' in the air, shaft, rope, cable. But it was pointed out away from the boat.

[John Galt]

but that was right after I had shoulder
surgery from my great mexican prison adventure Forget the speargun safety discussion...I want to hear THAT story...

[gatordragon]

I'm pretty new to spearfishing so I'm probably not the person to be giving any advice. But it seems crazy to load it in the boat. I mean seriously - how much time does it save you. I don't see it outweighing the safety benefits. Just load it in the water.

[Flfiremedic]

Band and unband the weapon in the water.

[TheMackDaddy]

if you're bringing it on the boat for whatever reason i think keeping it pointed upwards would be a mistake because were it to missfire the recoil when it reached the end of the shooting line in midair would send a right back at the boat