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View Full Version : Do You Really Feel Like Getting Stung by a Lionfish?


Louis Rossignol
01-05-2012, 10:47 AM
Tony, I really have been wanting to state my opinion for several months now on the Lionfish subject, but after reading your post today, I finally got the lead out of my ass.

Below is what I wrote to my reader group. Like it or not, it's the way I feel.

In late December of 2010 I saw my first Lionfish at 110' on GI 76, I think I may have been the first one to ever see one on a rig, probably because no one in their right mind would have been out there at that time of the year. During the 2011 summer several of us have seen quite a few on different platforms and we even had a competition for who could get the most, with a $100.00 prize. We generated so much interest that only one Lionfish was brought in, and, by the guy that put up the $100.00.

Well last week, I dove Dec. 28-29-30, and I have to say, I saw an explosion of these pesky little critters all over the rigs I dove on both sides of the river. The first one I saw was in West Delta's dirty water, on my first dive of the 3 day marathon. I was running my had down the pipe so I wouldn't lose the rig and at about 40' I almost put my hand on one that was verticle on the corner rig leg of all places. Many rigs during those 3 days had decks with 10 or more Lionfish on them.

In Florida there is some sentiment that the divers will volunteer to help with population reduction.

Personally, I don't see myself doing any volunteer work for a Government Agency that has been screwing me for the past 25+ years. And whether most of you do it maliciously or involuntarily, you will follow the same path as myself.

Scenario; Red Snapper season is CLOSED - Gag Grouper is CLOSED - Amberjack is CLOSED, Yeah!!! let's go put 150 gallons of fuel in the boat at over $3.00 a gallon, run offshore for 25+mi. in rough seas all to swim down 100-150' and risk being stung by a Lionfish so we can look good in the eyes of a Federal Agency that has thumbed their noses at us for all those years.

It's already been proven, working within the system DOES NOT work, that's why Myself and several other made the trek to Washington DC to tell our Congressmen and Senators that the people mismanaging our fisheries need to be removed.

Look at the bright side, this blows a hole right in the Environmental Defense Plan of selling all fishing rights to one monopoly and only the highest bidders are able to eat fish. I can't wait until Shrimp Trawlers get a couple hundred pounds of Lionfish in their trawls. This is our Katrina, our BP, and the clever people managed to turn that into oportunity.

I say we give the Gulf Council, NMFS, NOAA or whoever our demands.

Simple; as DIVERS, we want open season year round on Red Snapper, Grouper, and Amberjack. We all know those fish aren't in trouble. We also want to be able to collect a bounty on the Lionfish we bring back to the dock, I think $25.00 per Lionfish should be fair, after all, we'll be swimming down over 100' to collect them, risking life and limb.

If the Fedral Agency's really want to regulate a sustainable fishery like they advertise, they should really want to do something about the Lionfish Explosion.

this is my personal opinion, and doesn't reflect that of the LCUDC, Hell Divers or spearfishermen in general, yet!

Louis Rossignol

elcaptainq
01-05-2012, 10:54 AM
just my opinion but on the lionfiah subject I highly doubt the government would ever hand out 25 dollars a fish. but I could be wrong. has there been recent precedent in the past 30 years or so for the government paying people to help kill invasive species?

Louis Rossignol
01-05-2012, 11:16 AM
just my opinion but on the lionfiah subject I highly doubt the government would ever hand out 25 dollars a fish. but I could be wrong. has there been recent precedent in the past 30 years or so for the government paying people to help kill invasive species?

They pay us to kill Nutria over here, started out at $7.00 a tail, now it's about $5.00 a tail. I got a buddy that kills about 2000 a night.

Smudge
01-05-2012, 11:50 AM
They pay us to kill Nutria over here, started out at $7.00 a tail, now it's about $5.00 a tail. I got a buddy that kills about 2000 a night.

That's pretty rad...

elcaptainq
01-05-2012, 01:24 PM
that's absolutely ridiculous. how often does he go

KILLIAN
01-05-2012, 02:39 PM
call me sick in the head but where can i buy a huge shipment of tails like that? i believe i have just discovered the ultimate prank.

Louis Rossignol
01-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Y'all need to focus here.:D

SteveK
01-05-2012, 03:42 PM
Don't kill them for the government. Kill them for the health of the ecosystem of the fish that are your target species. If lionfish continue proliferate, their population will have an adverse effect on the fish you regularly hunt. Many juvenile reds, aj's, and gags will be eaten before they get out of the juvenile stage of development by a predator that has almost no predators at this point. You have to look at the bigger picture. I know it sucks.

AndrewK
01-05-2012, 04:05 PM
call me sick in the head but where can i buy a huge shipment of tails like that? i believe i have just discovered the ultimate prank.

:toast:

los mentirosos
01-05-2012, 04:49 PM
Don't kill them for the government. Kill them for the health of the ecosystem of the fish that are your target species. If lionfish continue proliferate, their population will have an adverse effect on the fish you regularly hunt. Many juvenile reds, aj's, and gags will be eaten before they get out of the juvenile stage of development by a predator that has almost no predators at this point. You have to look at the bigger picture. I know it sucks.
I think you're missing Rok's point. All the species you are mentioning have seasons closed on them. The Red Snapper are getting so big out my way there will soon be nothing else left. You can't even drift ribbon fish for Kingfish without catching Red Snapper.

slingshaft
01-08-2012, 12:31 PM
~~ "Ya'll need to focus here" Roc, will you consider running for President of the United States?

elcaptainq
01-08-2012, 02:02 PM
well I still want my question answered. I'm gonna fly out there once a month and kill a thousand of em. make some money

Bdog
01-08-2012, 03:36 PM
They use to pay us $1.00 per tail for prairie dog tails in New Mexico. A fun way to spend the day and make some gas money at the same time! Lion fish are risky to collect also so I agree there should be a little healthier payment for you guys. They definitely better do something to make it worth peoples time before it becomes a real problem.

anthropisces
01-13-2012, 10:51 PM
My friend has seen them at 500' in a sub. There is no putting this cat back in the bag.

hydroid
01-14-2012, 04:26 PM
I really think our fisheries management has been mis-managed, the very year they started these snapper limits was my best year fishing. The oyster buisness in Alabama was destroyed years ago. When the snapper season was open year round you could get a decent price for your fish and now when the season opens the price falls because the market is flooded, just like the mullet. Just glad I'm not a commercial fisherman anymore. You can't target nothing else because the snapper jump on your hook so fast nowadays. OK, I was'nt going to be negative today until I saw this post, he he.

ny_er
01-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Nutria hunting in Louisiana - YouTube

ShipFaced
01-14-2012, 07:00 PM
Nutria hunting in Louisiana - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxCL1EYyqrI)

rofl well thats one way to make a living.

Shark Byte
02-01-2012, 09:39 AM
You don't have to go deep to get lionfish anymore, they are in 10 feet or less, its sad. I got a small pole spear just for them, don't want to eat them, just kill them. What a state of affairs we have left our kids. The fisheries management of Florida has been a joke.

Ursus
02-01-2012, 01:18 PM
Lionfish sting hurts like being stung by stingray. I have experience with both. Lionfish tastes great and worth shooting....buy a little 2' pole spear (Leisurepro for $24) and use a tennis ball to cover the trident tips while swimming around or transporting it. If you get stung apply heat (get some of the chemical heating packs used for snow skiiing - "Hot Hands" or the like in case of a hit.

Cozumel is great example of what happens and how quickly it goes from seeing only maybe one lionfish on a dive to seeing dozens per dive within a year. There is a bounty for the divers to kill them. A year after the government posted open season on the lionfish the local divers put a dent into their population... only problem is that the fish are being culled only where people are diving. This means there are alot of open breeding grounds. I killed plenty of big ones +15" and 2-4 lbs in +150 water. We have seen them on deep dives +400'. Once they are established there is no way to totally remove them.

Thoughts on rig environment is that there may be enough big predators to eat the lionfish. Also they are terrible swimmers with all the accessory fins dangling so maybe this retards their numbers. This might keep their population down. If you see them kill them or within a year they will have eaten and bred enough that all local fingerling size fish are gone off a site. Once small fingerling reef fish are gone there is nothign to clean the coral. Once the bottom rung of food chain is gone it is short order before a collapse of everythign above it.

Take it seriously. It is devastating to see sections of reef devastated. You can tell where there are lionfish on a reef...

kendo
02-07-2012, 09:47 PM
just my opinion but on the lionfiah subject I highly doubt the government would ever hand out 25 dollars a fish. but I could be wrong. has there been recent precedent in the past 30 years or so for the government paying people to help kill invasive species?

Well the Nutria is a good example of bountys being placed on invasives in the south. Up north in Washington and Oregon there's a bounty for the Northern Pikeminnow (formerly known as squawfish) in the lower Columbia River. One big difference is the Pikeminnow isn't an invasive species. Yep they're native. I believe the reason for the bounty is that the Pikeminnow feed heavily on the salmon and steelhead smolt and have an un-natural advantage by the creation of many reserviors and dams on the Columbia River.

I tried going after them once and only caught one and it just didn't seem worth it. When I went to a reservoir on a different river I couldn't keep them off my hook. Too bad the bounty is only for the Columbia. Perhaps spearfishing would be a more effective tactic?

http://www.pikeminnow.org/info.html

Ken

skicat7
02-29-2012, 09:59 PM
OK I visit the Virgin Islands quite often and have noticed that the lion fish is all over. The good thing is the government has not put a season on it and most dive boats will let you shoot them. Oh and did I mention that they are very good eatin. I shoot everyonr I see and bring the "breeders" home for dinner.

Coral Sniper
03-09-2012, 11:06 PM
It still amazes's me that Lion fish are out of control in your waters. Don't you have eel's and puffers in your waters? I would think they would go at them or at least when the lions are young.

I see a lion about every other dive here. Must be our eel's that keep them in check?

You would think that the lion fish demand for aquarium pets could be met by americans instead of importing from our regions. But I bet there are so many laws out there that a guy could not make a business out of it in the states.

SpearMax
03-09-2012, 11:10 PM
It still amazes's me that Lion fish are out of control in your waters. Don't you have eel's and puffers in your waters? I would think they would go at them or at least when the lions are young.

I see a lion about every other dive here. Must be our eel's that keep them in check?

You would think that the lion fish demand for aquarium pets could be met by americans instead of importing from our regions. But I bet there are so many laws out there that a guy could not make a business out of it in the states.

It is not clear how they are kept in check in the Pacific.

The scientists I talk with say it is probably predation at the juvenile lionfish stage in the Pacific.

Aquarists here do collect them for resale. But now there are far too many.

They are everywhere. It is a very serious problem.

arice
03-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Coral sniper, it's the age-old case of an invasive species getting out of control because it is outside the context of its natural ecosystem, ie. Cane toads in Australia, Burmese pythons in the Everglades, or kudzu in the American south. The tropical Pacific, as you note, has predators that evolved eating lion fish, so they're kept in check. The Caribbean predators aren't evolved to deal with venomous, stinging fish like that and have plenty of other things to eat, too. It's a drag.

causemanot
03-30-2012, 02:27 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new to this site and i thought that this topic was a good one to "wet my feet." Not sure if this is still going on but i thought it could be used to sway hearts and minds here in the states for a lion fish bounty.

http://www.amandala.com.bz/index.php?id=8189

they are paying 50$ a fish.

Edit: ok, with a little extra research, that is over. But local fisheries are offering prices for them (like 8$ a lb) to thin out the species.(They will also prepare and cook one for you for free if you bring it in.) They stopped offering the 50$ because they have all of the samples they needed and there are just to many now.

gatorbrown2
04-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Just some recent info on lion fish numbers.. My friend a commercial diver spent last week underwater sat diving the Matterhorn rig in the Mississippi canyon. The rig is in 2600 ft of water but he spent the week at 60 ft rigging stuff as needed.. He said there were a large number of sharks and in the platform there were lion fish every where. He estimated nearly 200.. They climb around without swimming and had to look before changing their grip.. Fortunately the vis was 100ft and he could see them all over place. He grew up in the south pacific and has seen many before but never in this concentration .. The genie is out of the bottle ., this is probably worse than nutria with no way to control it. ::scratch::scratch::scratch:

mjmoore83
05-05-2012, 02:23 PM
I hate those damn things. I live in South Carolina, our water temperatures in the winter time can be in the low 50'sF offshore. We see a lot of them in water deeper than 90ft. I do not see to many of them on the wrecks around here becuase in the Carolinas everyone wants to dive wrecks. I assume people are killing them on charters. Everyone dives wrecks out here, it's kinda what we are known for. And giant goliath hogfish! My point is there are lionfish everywhere on every hard bottom I dive. Ledges, rocky bottom, rolls, coral heads; any kind of hard bottom and they are just everywhere. I do not want to waste them but I do not have the time to collect them. I am commercial diving but if I can make money on them; I will be more than glad to bring some back. I have killed some where their body was like a football; not including their fins.

mjmoore83
05-05-2012, 02:27 PM
:lol: And my message thing on the bottom says " kill only what you are going to eat" Lionfish are the exception because I know how they can destroy a reef. I think I would kill a nutra and not eat that bigass rat thing too.

ReefRyder617
09-05-2012, 08:16 PM
Ill be a rich man if they put a bounty on those nasty things.

agbiv
09-05-2012, 09:51 PM
Nutria makes good stew--try it sometime but defat it after browning. Now possum is a different story--survival only.

Drunkswimmer
09-06-2012, 06:47 PM
Quid Pro Quo? Not sure if i remember my latin spelling.. but This For that?

How about this.... to open the door. For every Lionfish you bring in, you are entitled to bring in a closed season species fish as well. One dead lionfish = 1 tasty snapper. The snapper managament is REDICULOUS.... Just today I went out and caught 3 TROLLING my honey hole rig before we started diving. Luckily in Texas "State Waters" we can keep 4/day year round.

bracmon
10-18-2012, 09:56 PM
It is not clear how they are kept in check in the Pacific.

The scientists I talk with say it is probably predation at the juvenile lionfish stage in the Pacific.

Aquarists here do collect them for resale. But now there are far too many.

They are everywhere. It is a very serious problem.



something about a fungus or desease that affects thier eggs(why they produce so many). In the PO very little eggs servive, in the AO and Carib there isn't anything killing off the eggs so they bread like crazy.

they taste good though

DABEER
05-28-2013, 10:30 PM
I like the 1 = a snapper or grouper 10 = 1 goliath 100 = no limits for that particular diver, that would be sweet only size apply

DABEER
05-28-2013, 10:31 PM
people would slaughter the lion fish!

yardpro
06-07-2013, 07:34 AM
brother,
you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.

You refuse to kill lionfish because the government has other policies you disagree with, so you are bucking the one policy you SHOULD agree with.

your mindset is only going to make your situation worse....

the lionfish will further reduce the populations of the game fish you want, causing the government to place even worse restrictions on them.

Studies consistantly show that lionfish can reduce populations of competing predator fish by over 60%...

Saying that the government needs to pay for lionfish only places economic power on an institution that you clearly think screws up everything it touches... i agree by the way...

I want the government out of my life as much as possible...

you are saying that the government screwed up management of every other game species, so you want them to add another species to manage? why would you think that they would not screw up lionfsh management management also

Captdennis
06-29-2013, 08:28 AM
Someone answered another thread about lion fish and said they were 4.50 a pound. I am a commercial spearfisherman and I have been passing up hundreds on the reef. We are calling our fish house Monday to see if there's any truth to it. I will fill a bag with them if I can sell them. $25 bucks a piece will pay some bliss hehehehehehe

MAKO Spearguns
06-29-2013, 08:33 AM
http://youtu.be/4iZ9BdKkgxU

Captdennis
07-04-2013, 12:11 AM
So I agree whole heartily with this guy. Bounty on lion fish? $25! Um in


:gun:


Tony, I really have been wanting to state my opinion for several months now on the Lionfish subject, but after reading your post today, I finally got the lead out of my ass.

Below is what I wrote to my reader group. Like it or not, it's the way I feel.

In late December of 2010 I saw my first Lionfish at 110' on GI 76, I think I may have been the first one to ever see one on a rig, probably because no one in their right mind would have been out there at that time of the year. During the 2011 summer several of us have seen quite a few on different platforms and we even had a competition for who could get the most, with a $100.00 prize. We generated so much interest that only one Lionfish was brought in, and, by the guy that put up the $100.00.

Well last week, I dove Dec. 28-29-30, and I have to say, I saw an explosion of these pesky little critters all over the rigs I dove on both sides of the river. The first one I saw was in West Delta's dirty water, on my first dive of the 3 day marathon. I was running my had down the pipe so I wouldn't lose the rig and at about 40' I almost put my hand on one that was verticle on the corner rig leg of all places. Many rigs during those 3 days had decks with 10 or more Lionfish on them.

In Florida there is some sentiment that the divers will volunteer to help with population reduction.

Personally, I don't see myself doing any volunteer work for a Government Agency that has been screwing me for the past 25+ years. And whether most of you do it maliciously or involuntarily, you will follow the same path as myself.

Scenario; Red Snapper season is CLOSED - Gag Grouper is CLOSED - Amberjack is CLOSED, Yeah!!! let's go put 150 gallons of fuel in the boat at over $3.00 a gallon, run offshore for 25+mi. in rough seas all to swim down 100-150' and risk being stung by a Lionfish so we can look good in the eyes of a Federal Agency that has thumbed their noses at us for all those years.

It's already been proven, working within the system DOES NOT work, that's why Myself and several other made the trek to Washington DC to tell our Congressmen and Senators that the people mismanaging our fisheries need to be removed.

Look at the bright side, this blows a hole right in the Environmental Defense Plan of selling all fishing rights to one monopoly and only the highest bidders are able to eat fish. I can't wait until Shrimp Trawlers get a couple hundred pounds of Lionfish in their trawls. This is our Katrina, our BP, and the clever people managed to turn that into oportunity.

I say we give the Gulf Council, NMFS, NOAA or whoever our demands.

Simple; as DIVERS, we want open season year round on Red Snapper, Grouper, and Amberjack. We all know those fish aren't in trouble. We also want to be able to collect a bounty on the Lionfish we bring back to the dock, I think $25.00 per Lionfish should be fair, after all, we'll be swimming down over 100' to collect them, risking life and limb.

If the Fedral Agency's really want to regulate a sustainable fishery like they advertise, they should really want to do something about the Lionfish Explosion.

this is my personal opinion, and doesn't reflect that of the LCUDC, Hell Divers or spearfishermen in general, yet!

Louis Rossignol

Captdennis
07-04-2013, 12:53 AM
I just read a post about the lion fish elsewhere on this board that they bring 4.50 a pound in key west. Yeah baby a keys trip. Dry tortugas, marquasa's, all da local wrecks that are not sanctuaries. We called our fish house and they will pay $4. Pound! I will be killin some this week!l

Shark Byte
07-16-2013, 03:17 PM
"I'm all the gubberment you need boy" - Romer Treece

freedivingfool
07-22-2013, 08:05 AM
Well i'm in the Indo Pacific/south china sea area and I take them home all the time, they are good to eat and we have monsters here. They are kept in checked here somehow! Made fish Taco's for the wife and baby with it. FYI that's a 12" filet knife.

tuffstuff
07-26-2013, 03:51 AM
at $10 each I think you could easily cover gas money and then some....$25 is a little high...

yardpro
07-26-2013, 07:02 AM
i am going to talk with the local fish houses here and see if they are going to do the same thing...

you will need a commercial license here to sell them, but that would at least pay for the dive... i am all about that.

cldomson1
07-26-2013, 08:18 AM
Once the restaurants establish a market for them, and the fish houses buy them...

Then we need to have unrestricted sales for them, no comm license necessary.

C

Impaler Spearguns
07-26-2013, 11:10 PM
Once the restaurants establish a market for them, and the fish houses buy them...

Then we need to have unrestricted sales for them, no comm license necessary.

C

All you need is a 50$ saltwater products license anyway- plus I have a strong feeling the fwc isn't spending alot of time tracking down illegal lionfish sellers anyway, but for 40$ you are legal. You can also sell triggers , yellow jacks, porgys,cudas, ceros, margates etc. , so it's worth the 50$.

slowboat
07-29-2013, 08:09 PM
along with the com spl your vessel will need to be registered commercial and all applicable safety gear will be needed. got an extra 2 grand for safety gear ?

also temperature levels and commercial fish handling rules will apply , that's a lot more ice. you can't leave your catch laying on the deck , since FWCC can stick a thermometer in them and ticket you for improperly handled fish.
Being commercial means being clean , responsible , and adhering to the health standards.

and if you don't think FWCC doesn't follow the small stuff also ; ask tuff stuff about his visit from them regarding a single eel.

Captrandy
08-17-2013, 08:37 PM
All you need is a 50$ saltwater products license anyway- plus I have a strong feeling the fwc isn't spending alot of time tracking down illegal lionfish sellers anyway, but for 40$ you are legal. You can also sell triggers , yellow jacks, porgys,cudas, ceros, margates etc. , so it's worth the 50$.

Uh, not trying to spoil the party, but triggers, jacks, porgys, cero mackerel require other state and federal licenses to sell. Margates were removed from federal last year so these and cudas are legal. If you get a SPL you can sell the lions. My local fishhouse has no market for them and will not buy them...yet. We deal with a buyer that's a 50 mile drive away that will pay 5 per pound, but only wants them bigger and in numbers. In other words, 8 tiny lions aren't going to work. 12" and bigger, please.
May want to check the FWC and SAFMC websites for the reef fish listed above as the rules for them are complex and ever-changing.

Reef_Pirate
08-26-2013, 07:41 PM
All you need is a 50$ saltwater products license anyway- plus I have a strong feeling the fwc isn't spending alot of time tracking down illegal lionfish sellers anyway, but for 40$ you are legal. You can also sell triggers , yellow jacks, porgys,cudas, ceros, margates etc. , so it's worth the 50$.

The advantage is with an SPL you don't need a recreational license. Why not pay the extra $$ and have the ability to sell some? I know there are a few local fish houses buying them. If you don't have a federal reef permit than I doubt that in the Tampa Bay area you are going to make your money back just shooting lionfish. It will however help to offset your costs. Remember though, a commercial license, like stated before requires a whole lot more safety gear, different vessel registration, etc.

FWC has stopped us more times than I care to count and checked everything on the boat, from fish temperature to life jackets, to vessel registration. The little bit of money made is not worth the fine if you aren't in compliance.

gatorbrown2
08-28-2013, 02:57 PM
It would be nice to sell some meat and get rid of a trash fish.. but the bottom line is this is beyond anything we can do to impact this population. they are prolific and are dispersed thu out the gulf.. my friend a commercial diver has seen them on every rig and well head he has been on down to 500 ft... it's out of control guys.... gator

yardpro
08-29-2013, 04:30 PM
so we should just do nothing?

i will do what i can to thin them out at the wrecks i visit...

trawkins
08-30-2013, 09:42 AM
It still amazes's me that Lion fish are out of control in your waters. Don't you have eel's and puffers in your waters? I would think they would go at them or at least when the lions are young.

I see a lion about every other dive here. Must be our eel's that keep them in check?

You would think that the lion fish demand for aquarium pets could be met by americans instead of importing from our regions. But I bet there are so many laws out there that a guy could not make a business out of it in the states.

Its a type R species. They play the numbers game with breeding. Even though planktonian lionfish embryos and babies get massacred, each lionfish reaches a sexual maturity in only a few months, releases something on the order of hundreds of thousands of eggs per cycle, and can reproduce every 3-5 days. A single fish can produce millions of eggs per month. Even if the success rate of breeding is 0.01% (multiplier factor of 0.0001) a single lion fish multiplies into 100 sexually mature lion fish per month. We know that the numbers are actually greater than this, so the fact that we don't have a huge population of active lionfish predators means the caribbean is fighting a losing battle.

There's your marine science for the day.

Mohney
08-30-2013, 10:04 AM
I think we should all remember that this is OUR fishery not the property of some government caretaker. There is a process for changing how the fishery is managed and THAT is what we should be focused on.
Getting your undies in a knot about "the man" or some unknowable agency should be left to the kids.
We got the same BS up here in the north about the wolves. The same clowns that don't want you to harm the fish; think that wolves are cute dogs that we can live in peace with, not a pack of vicious killers that will hunt YOU with more skill and stealth than any spearo ever.

UaVaj
08-30-2013, 09:50 PM
request registration to be a legal lionfish hunter. $5 bounty per lionfish head.

lionfish population will be decimated in a year.

not rocket science.

Keysdivers
08-31-2013, 02:57 PM
UaVaj are you trying to eliminate all the "scientists?" Too simple.

kmoose
08-31-2013, 04:54 PM
request registration to be a legal lionfish hunter. $5 bounty per lionfish head.

lionfish population will be decimated in a year.

not rocket science. You could put $50 a head on them.... It would'nt put a dent in the population. If you had a clue as to how prolific they are in deep water you wouldn't make such statements.

The scourge will only come into check when a biological counter organism imbeds itself everywhere they exist. Lion fish are like the stars in the sky, the ones you see are only a whisper of what exists beyond your reach.

Reef_Pirate
09-04-2013, 09:35 AM
You could put $50 a head on them.... It would'nt put a dent in the population. If you had a clue as to how prolific they are in deep water you wouldn't make such statements.

The scourge will only come into check when a biological counter organism imbeds itself everywhere they exist. Lion fish are like the stars in the sky, the ones you see are only a whisper of what exists beyond your reach.

kmoose is right. Some of the deeper wrecks that most divers never make it to are so covered up with lionfish you would think that is all that is holding the wreck together.

The battle is not lost, it is however a serious uphill battle at this point.

UaVaj
09-04-2013, 11:39 PM
You could put $50 a head on them.... It would'nt put a dent in the population. If you had a clue as to how prolific they are in deep water you wouldn't make such statements.

The scourge will only come into check when a biological counter organism imbeds itself everywhere they exist. Lion fish are like the stars in the sky, the ones you see are only a whisper of what exists beyond your reach.

not if every dick, harry and john is killing them. aka overfishing for lionfish.

seem to work for red snapper, gag grouper, and aj.
seem to work for tuna, halibut, sturgeon, acadian redfish, and atlantic cod.
just use the same science. then throw in a $5 bonus per head.


-----

jokes aside. sadly these critter offer no incentives to kill them.

shootmeagain
09-25-2013, 01:28 AM
Hydroid and Louis, I think you're right on.

shootmeagain
09-25-2013, 01:34 AM
that being said , they do taste good, and im tired of the little bastages being everywhere i look

jfjf
09-25-2013, 06:56 AM
not if every dick, harry and john is killing them. aka overfishing for lionfish.

seem to work for red snapper, gag grouper, and aj.
seem to work for tuna, halibut, sturgeon, acadian redfish, and atlantic cod.
just use the same science. then throw in a $5 bonus per head.


-----

jokes aside. sadly these critter offer no incentives to kill them.

Those species were existing in their natural ecological niche. Lionfish are exotics and may (seem to) have the ability to "over populate" large areas in a very short time.

I'm not sure how you could establish a viable fishery at depths of over 500 feet for them. I view the deepwater populations as an almost endless reservoir of eggs and juveniles to re-colonize the shallower reefs.

UaVaj
09-25-2013, 12:32 PM
Those species were existing in their natural ecological niche. Lionfish are exotics and may (seem to) have the ability to "over populate" large areas in a very short time.

I'm not sure how you could establish a viable fishery at depths of over 500 feet for them. I view the deepwater populations as an almost endless reservoir of eggs and juveniles to re-colonize the shallower reefs.

the same could be said to all those other species. yet those other species are being fished out (per the science/data, unless such science/data is pure bs and those other species are actually flourishing in deep to re-colonize the shallow).

lastly - find a commercial niche for these critters and they too will decimate. humans have ways of emptying oceans.

skinneej
09-26-2013, 07:39 AM
A few things...

First of all, killing lionfish is NOT a favor for the government. It's a favor for yourself...

That being said, I don't believe that fishermen\divers could ever take care of the lionfish problem. South Florida is the most overfished place I have ever dove and people are sticking them down there as fast as possible.

My back yard is South Carolina, and I can't remember the last time I dove and DIDN'T see a lionfish. Factor in that they also inhabit deeper waters (i.e. the continental shelf) and most divers are not diving that deep. If they are diving that deep, they are looking for giant gags and hogfish. They aren't going to waste their time at 170' poking lionfish. Bottom line, I applaud the effort of people trying to eradicate them, but I doubt that it's a battle we can win. That DOES work under the assumption that they can spawn up and down the coast. If they can only spawn in certain areas, then maybe focusing there could help. Otherwise, you are just pissing on an inferno.

For those that think putting a bounty on them will "overfish" them, you are kidding yourselves. Let's not forget that most of the "overfishing" happened in the 70's with bottom trawlers and through the 80's and early 90's with bottom long lining. It wasn't caused by the hook and line fishermen that you see today. Sure, they might keep it trimmed down now that the population is already lower, but it would be hard for fishermen to knock out a virgin stock. At least not north of Jupiter (maybe St Lucie). I use Jupiter to St Lucie because that is where the shelf pulls in really close to land and funnels all of the fish within 2 miles of highly populated areas. Once you get up into Georgia and the Carolinas, there are WAY more hiding places for fish than there are fishermen...

Also, I am not convinced that lionfish will wipe everything else out. Sure they have been proven to eat 60% of the contents of a fish tank, but that is in a fish tank. Where I have observed them, they are usually snuggled up pretty tightly to the rock like a hind. I would worry about them wiping out certain species that need the same habitats like rock hinds, eels, hakes, etc., but not things like grouper and snapper and things that live above the reef.

I think that if you wanted to wipe out lionfish, you would have to make some sort of traps that entangle them. Not sure what it would look like, but maybe someone smarter than me could invent a lionfish trap that would just sit on the ocean floor and kill them eternally.

mjmoore83
10-09-2013, 10:33 AM
I fish/dive out of the Carolinas as well. I just gutted over 60 lionfish the other day and most of them had baby vermillion snapper in their stomachs, the others had small cigar minnows(round eyed scad) and baby tomtates. These fish were harvested in not that deep of water.

I wish there was a market for these things because they are very good to eat. Like others have said before; we will never totally exterminate these terrible critters and they are EVERYWHERE! I haven't made a dive with out seeing at least 30 lionfish and I am not looking for them most of the time.

I also got poked pretty bad in my pinkie finger at 120ft by a big guy(3.5lb gutted weight). I got hit putting him into a lionfish hotel made by a-plus marine, it is not completely poke proof but a very great product. I have been poked multiple times before but this time was really really bad. Finger swelled so much my skin ripped open and became a big open wound. Lots and lots of pain for more than an hour, more than the usual hour of pain.

Hope this does not happen to others but I do wish people take time to kill these things because they are very good to eat, like a black seabass filet( pearl white, sweet, flaky meat). With the commercial closure of triggerfish those things are everywhere too. They area like packs of piranhas tearing up stringers of grouper and hogfish. Someone needs to teach the triggers to eat the lionfish haha.

skinneej
10-14-2013, 02:30 PM
mjmoore, there are a couple of restaurants down in Charleston that will buy local lions if you are looking for a market for them. That's interesting to know about the baby vermilion though.

adzhoo
12-03-2013, 06:27 PM
A few things...

First of all, killing lionfish is NOT a favor for the government. It's a favor for yourself...

That being said, I don't believe that fishermen\divers could ever take care of the lionfish problem. South Florida is the most overfished place I have ever dove and people are sticking them down there as fast as possible.

My back yard is South Carolina, and I can't remember the last time I dove and DIDN'T see a lionfish. Factor in that they also inhabit deeper waters (i.e. the continental shelf) and most divers are not diving that deep. If they are diving that deep, they are looking for giant gags and hogfish. They aren't going to waste their time at 170' poking lionfish. Bottom line, I applaud the effort of people trying to eradicate them, but I doubt that it's a battle we can win. That DOES work under the assumption that they can spawn up and down the coast. If they can only spawn in certain areas, then maybe focusing there could help. Otherwise, you are just pissing on an inferno.

For those that think putting a bounty on them will "overfish" them, you are kidding yourselves. Let's not forget that most of the "overfishing" happened in the 70's with bottom trawlers and through the 80's and early 90's with bottom long lining. It wasn't caused by the hook and line fishermen that you see today. Sure, they might keep it trimmed down now that the population is already lower, but it would be hard for fishermen to knock out a virgin stock. At least not north of Jupiter (maybe St Lucie). I use Jupiter to St Lucie because that is where the shelf pulls in really close to land and funnels all of the fish within 2 miles of highly populated areas. Once you get up into Georgia and the Carolinas, there are WAY more hiding places for fish than there are fishermen...

Also, I am not convinced that lionfish will wipe everything else out. Sure they have been proven to eat 60% of the contents of a fish tank, but that is in a fish tank. Where I have observed them, they are usually snuggled up pretty tightly to the rock like a hind. I would worry about them wiping out certain species that need the same habitats like rock hinds, eels, hakes, etc., but not things like grouper and snapper and things that live above the reef.

I think that if you wanted to wipe out lionfish, you would have to make some sort of traps that entangle them. Not sure what it would look like, but maybe someone smarter than me could invent a lionfish trap that would just sit on the ocean floor and kill them eternally.


The lionfish is hunting at night mostly, and they are wandering far away from their rocks when they do...

shinyhalo69
02-09-2014, 12:16 PM
OP is right. A bounty on lionfish would create opportunity for corruption, like people breeding them on purpose. So the best solution does seem to be making spearfishing open season all year round. That would give spearos an incentive to keep their hunting spots clear of lionfish.

damnedifido
02-15-2014, 04:02 PM
I fish/dive out of the Carolinas as well. I just gutted over 60 lionfish the other day and most of them had baby vermillion snapper in their stomachs, the others had small cigar minnows(round eyed scad) and baby tomtates. These fish were harvested in not that deep of water.

I wish there was a market for these things because they are very good to eat. Like others have said before; we will never totally exterminate these terrible critters and they are EVERYWHERE! I haven't made a dive with out seeing at least 30 lionfish and I am not looking for them most of the time.

I also got poked pretty bad in my pinkie finger at 120ft by a big guy(3.5lb gutted weight). I got hit putting him into a lionfish hotel made by a-plus marine, it is not completely poke proof but a very great product. I have been poked multiple times before but this time was really really bad. Finger swelled so much my skin ripped open and became a big open wound. Lots and lots of pain for more than an hour, more than the usual hour of pain.

Hope this does not happen to others but I do wish people take time to kill these things because they are very good to eat, like a black seabass filet( pearl white, sweet, flaky meat). With the commercial closure of triggerfish those things are everywhere too. They area like packs of piranhas tearing up stringers of grouper and hogfish. Someone needs to teach the triggers to eat the lionfish haha.

MJ, just wondering where in the Carolinas are you hitting the Lionfish? How deep are they? Im relatively new to spearfishing and recently getting back into diving. I currently live pretty close to South Padre in TX, but have some property and family near Charlotte that we get back to pretty often. I hope to get some more dive time here as well, but work keeps screwing up all of my fun.

mjmoore83
02-26-2014, 09:20 PM
The lionfish is hunting at night mostly, and they are wandering far away from their rocks when they do...

This is not true. When the current is not moving they hole up or when the water is really dirty. If the current is running hard they leave the rocks and line up shoulder to shoulder facing into the current and feed on the edge of the reef. I have watched them eat during the middle of they day and the ones that I do harvest and gut have fresh fish in their stomach.

damnedifido- In the Carolinas during the summer time I see them as shallow as 90ft. In the winter they seem to move offshore to 110 at the shallowest. There are tons of lions 140ft and deeper. Where I hit them at? In the head with a small polespear and then shove them in a lion hotel where they wait their demise.

Reef Monitoring
03-11-2014, 08:47 AM
Tony, I really have been wanting to state my opinion for several months now on the Lionfish subject, but after reading your post today, I finally got the lead out of my ass.

Below is what I wrote to my reader group. Like it or not, it's the way I feel.

In late December of 2010 I saw my first Lionfish at 110' on GI 76, I think I may have been the first one to ever see one on a rig, probably because no one in their right mind would have been out there at that time of the year. During the 2011 summer several of us have seen quite a few on different platforms and we even had a competition for who could get the most, with a $100.00 prize. We generated so much interest that only one Lionfish was brought in, and, by the guy that put up the $100.00.

Well last week, I dove Dec. 28-29-30, and I have to say, I saw an explosion of these pesky little critters all over the rigs I dove on both sides of the river. The first one I saw was in West Delta's dirty water, on my first dive of the 3 day marathon. I was running my had down the pipe so I wouldn't lose the rig and at about 40' I almost put my hand on one that was verticle on the corner rig leg of all places. Many rigs during those 3 days had decks with 10 or more Lionfish on them.

In Florida there is some sentiment that the divers will volunteer to help with population reduction.

Personally, I don't see myself doing any volunteer work for a Government Agency that has been screwing me for the past 25+ years. And whether most of you do it maliciously or involuntarily, you will follow the same path as myself.

Scenario; Red Snapper season is CLOSED - Gag Grouper is CLOSED - Amberjack is CLOSED, Yeah!!! let's go put 150 gallons of fuel in the boat at over $3.00 a gallon, run offshore for 25+mi. in rough seas all to swim down 100-150' and risk being stung by a Lionfish so we can look good in the eyes of a Federal Agency that has thumbed their noses at us for all those years.

It's already been proven, working within the system DOES NOT work, that's why Myself and several other made the trek to Washington DC to tell our Congressmen and Senators that the people mismanaging our fisheries need to be removed.

Look at the bright side, this blows a hole right in the Environmental Defense Plan of selling all fishing rights to one monopoly and only the highest bidders are able to eat fish. I can't wait until Shrimp Trawlers get a couple hundred pounds of Lionfish in their trawls. This is our Katrina, our BP, and the clever people managed to turn that into oportunity.

I say we give the Gulf Council, NMFS, NOAA or whoever our demands.

Simple; as DIVERS, we want open season year round on Red Snapper, Grouper, and Amberjack. We all know those fish aren't in trouble. We also want to be able to collect a bounty on the Lionfish we bring back to the dock, I think $25.00 per Lionfish should be fair, after all, we'll be swimming down over 100' to collect them, risking life and limb.

If the Fedral Agency's really want to regulate a sustainable fishery like they advertise, they should really want to do something about the Lionfish Explosion.

this is my personal opinion, and doesn't reflect that of the LCUDC, Hell Divers or spearfishermen in general, yet!

Louis Rossignol

Rok,

I certainly understand your position. However, it might help to look at this situation a little more selfishly. Lionfish could pose a bigger problem than stinging us here and there.
Studies by Oregon State University have shown that a single lionfish can reduce the population of juvenile fish on a small coral reef by 80% in just 5 weeks. That is insane. And what are those juvenile fish? Certainly some are small wrasses and blennies and things like that. But also shrimp, juvenile grouper and snapper. Now, is a 15" lionfish going to eat a 15lb gag? No, but if the lionfish eats all of the food, the gag will die.
Also there is strong evidence that lionfish preying on all of the parrotfish that eat algae and other fish that eat seaweed can upset the balance leading to reefs being covered in algae and seaweed and/or lead to algal blooms in the water column.
I don't care if the government is asking us to remove them. We should be doing it for our own sake.
Can we really make a difference? 99% of the opinion is "no"
However, further studies by OSU show that we don't have to eradicate them. Their research suggests that knocking the lionfish population on a reef down as much as 25% can allow rapid recovery of the native fish biomass. That means you don't have to kill all of them. Simply removing enough to sustain the native populations will make a difference.

Just a thought....

Daniel B
03-28-2014, 05:06 PM
I shot few lion fish in Panama (caribbean side) and they were really the most delicious fish you could imagine. And they are not that hard to prepare, if you know what you are doing. You could shoot them for that reason. I bet you could collect more meat per hour shooting these fish than any other because they do not flee.

gncc50
08-25-2014, 10:48 AM
I fish/dive out of the Carolinas as well. I just gutted over 60 lionfish the other day and most of them had baby vermillion snapper in their stomachs, the others had small cigar minnows(round eyed scad) and baby tomtates. These fish were harvested in not that deep of water.

I wish there was a market for these things because they are very good to eat. Like others have said before; we will never totally exterminate these terrible critters and they are EVERYWHERE! I haven't made a dive with out seeing at least 30 lionfish and I am not looking for them most of the time.

I also got poked pretty bad in my pinkie finger at 120ft by a big guy(3.5lb gutted weight). I got hit putting him into a lionfish hotel made by a-plus marine, it is not completely poke proof but a very great product. I have been poked multiple times before but this time was really really bad. Finger swelled so much my skin ripped open and became a big open wound. Lots and lots of pain for more than an hour, more than the usual hour of pain.

Hope this does not happen to others but I do wish people take time to kill these things because they are very good to eat, like a black seabass filet( pearl white, sweet, flaky meat). With the commercial closure of triggerfish those things are everywhere too. They area like packs of piranhas tearing up stringers of grouper and hogfish. Someone needs to teach the triggers to eat the lionfish haha.

Just found a good place to buy some gloves. I think these are made for the medical field to prevent needle pokes. I bought a pair of these last year, they seem to work pretty well.

This place is the cheapest I have found.

http://www.katssafety.com/Products/PF37082-XL-HexArmor-Size-10-SharpsMaster-HV-SuperFabric-Reusable-Cut-Resistant.aspx

Thought I would pass it along.