Anyone else had this problem with their SS Gun?

[grouperassasin]

I shoot a 52" Traditional SS Rhino gun. I bought the gun after attending a seminar given by Kevin. He made a lot of good points and I could definitely see the thought that went into the design of the guns. However, lately, I've run into a problem with the Handle assembly. Where the butt inserts into the rear of the trigger assembly, I have cracked two trigger assemblies. They crack right on the top of the assembly behind where the shaft goes into the front of the trigger assembly. The first one split right up the back, the one that's on there now has a bunch of white spider cracks in it and it's only a matter of time before it cracks also. Iv'e taken the gun back to Wet N Fla where I bought it and Phil caled Kevin at SS and this is the story I got. There hasn't been a problem with them like I'm having and the fact that the handle is cracking is acknowledged but until it cracks, they're not going to do anything about it. Kevin did say that he would stand behind the gun and when it did crack, he would fix it. Or he said that he would sell me a 52" commercial for the price of a 48" and I could sell mine to offset the cost. I do appreciate that Kevin and Phil are at least trying to work with me, however, I don't want to be 25 miles offshore with a gun that I know is failing and have it break while I'm on the boat and not have anything to shoot with for the rest of the trip. Also, the last time I sent my gun back because Kevin wanted to see it before he'd fix it, it took over 4 weeks to get it back! I know you guys can understand that that was like torture not having a gun for that long! I don't want to have to keep going through that every year. I'm shooting the same length and thickness bands that come on the gun, and 98% of the time, I only shoot one band! I don't know if the extended butt of the gun that makes it easier to load, causes the trigger to flex too much? I refuse to believe that I'm the only one that's had this problem. I didn't know there was a use limit on the regular guns, If I had known thta I'd have this problem before, I would have just gotten the commercial from the getgo. I hunt with others that have Billers for 4-5 years that don't take half as good a care of their guns as I do, and never had a problem. Is it possible that I just got two bad trigger assemblies in a row, or have others had this same problem? On the second trigger assembly that Kevin put on, the only difference was that he put an extra screw in either side of the reciever that accept the putt end to I assume cut down on flex. Please help guys!

[MarkD]

I have the same gun and have no problems. I suggest you send a PM to Kevin here, he is always very supportive. His id on Spearboard is SpearOne.

Mark

[Merk]

I openly admit I could be completely off base here but I remember hearing about the problem before.

From what I recall it had something to do with the type of gun. If it's not solid wood all the way to the butt (i.e. wood to the trigger, then the trigger assembly, then a separate piece of wood for the but) the gun tends to flex when be shot and causes the trigger (plastic) to crack. My 52 SS Rhino is one piece of wood with a trigger assembly attached vs two prices of wood.

If they won't replace it until it's cracked bang it up against the wall serval times until it compromises......... Oh my I can't believe I said that.....

[Steel Shootin']

I'll give you my candid opinion on this.

First, I have an almost impossible time believing that Kevin (Spear One) had your gun for four weeks. His turnaround time on fixing guns is lightening fast.

I also want to mention that Kevin's customer service is in a league of it's own. How many manufacturers do you know that will talk to you on the phone--AFTER the purchase--out of concern that you are fully satisfied and enjoy the product.

I am not giving you a hard time, but I think it would have been more appropriate to handle it one on one with Kevin, because I know he will go the extra mile for any customer.

[FredT]

You've broken 2. Problem does not seem to be endemic.

The thing this indicates to me is that you are putting an "unusual" stress on the gun during loading, storage, or transport. I'd first examine all those locations/activities.

1. Storage/transport:

A. Plastics often do not like solvents and/or fuel fumes. (Neither does the rubber!) Examine storage/transport locations for potential fume sources. Even if this isn't the problem you'll increase the life of the rubber if you handle all fume sources.

B. Does your storage or transport racks put a constant or intermittent side load on wood to handle joint? If so rearrange the racks so it doesn't. An exmple of an intermittent load would be a short tube the butts fit into on deck for the ride out to the reef without a support for the muzzle.

C. UV damage? Is there direct sunlight on the gun handle for extended periods of time? Most plastics are damaged to one extent or another by UV. I have no data onthe UV resistance of the stuff Kevin uses, but keeping it in the shade can't hurt it.


2. Loading technique.

A. Are you pulling the band in the horizontal plane of the gun? Pulling the band high, then dropping the bone into the notch can put a load on the but to handle joint. Extreme conditions and a slightly bound butt can put significant moment loads on the butt/handle joint.

As a rule gun butts are not loaded to any serious extent in any direction except with very transient axial loads during the loading cycle. Longitudinal cracks indicate a side load of some sort combined with a designed in or induced weakness.


Note that this is NOT an attempt to relieve Kevin of responsibility. The solution to any problem begins with the proper definition of the problem. If Kevin has a problem with his design then the answers to the above questions, and perhaps some others, will help define the envelope. Many others on this board have similar guns so your results in the root cause search may help everyone.

FT

[dlock]

3. Cleaning technique: ie.do you clean it with a HAMMER? If so this in itself is VERY,VERY bad use something a hell of a lot softer. This alone could alleviate your problem!!!:D just tryin' to help:p

[WreckDiver]

dlock, thats how you fix the shaft when AJ gets done with it, guns get broke when you put the but on the ground , then try to push the bands down.:D

[dlock]

;)

[Spear One]

I spoke with the dealer in Orlando about this gun about a week ago. He described the problem to me as a couple stress marks that appeared white in color forming on top of the plastic where the butt stock inserts into the back of the grip. This issue involves the plastic grip, not the trigger cartridge. The dealer said the area looked stressed but it was not split open at this time.

I told the dealer that in my opinion it would probably be best to just keep an eye on it and if it got any worse please assure the customer that I would replace it for him at no charge, even though it was out of warranty. That is where we left it, and as far as I knew the issue was settled for the time being. I was not notified by the customer that this arrangement was unacceptable.

This post by Grouperassassin is my first and only knowledge that he was unhappy with this arrangement. I have sent him a PM and asked him to call me to discuss this issue and come to a resolution he will be happy with. I have not received that call yet.

As for the 4 week turn around... If he waited four weeks to get the gun back, I assure you that the delay was not caused by me. At least 90% of the guns which arrive for warranry service are sent back out of here within 24 hours. A good portion of them go back out the same day they arrive. What reason would I have for sittin on a gun for 4 weeks that only needs a grip replacement? It is at best a 10 minute job!

I know that it is inconvenient for folks to have to send their guns back and possibly do without them on their next trip, so I always make it a point to get them back out asap. If somebody sat on that gun for 4 weeks... it wasn't me. I think the guys on this board who know me, know I would never do that.

I do not manufacture the plastic components we use on our guns. We import them from Australia. We make the best guns we can using these parts. We do the best we can to educate folks about our guns and other manufacturers guns as well. I try to be as honest and upfront as I can with customers and give them the best advice I can, even if it points them away from one of my guns. If I don't have the product they want or need, I will point them to another manufacturer (competitors) if necessary.

The last thing I want is for someone to buy one of my guns and not be happy with it. If they are by chance not happy, then give me the chance to make it right before making this type of public display. We sell thousands of these types of guns and have had very few warranty issues involving them. Are they indestructible? No. Can they be abused? Yes. Has this one been abused? I don't know, but I always try to give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

You wouldn't believe some of the calls and hard luck stories we get involving lost or broken equipment. I actually had a guy call me, said he dropped his gun overboard, and since it was less than a year old figured it was under warranty and tried to give me his address so I could send him a replacement.

I guess if I am going to benefit from this forum, I must accept the downsides as well. I guess this is one of the downsides. I hope the vast majority of you guys look at my involvement with this board as being positive overall. I enjoy sharing my experience and knowledge on spearfishing issues on this board and hope this information has had a positive influence.

Thanks,

Kevin

[subdude]

I have been following this thread and read nothing that would turn me off from one.

I think anyone knows that no matter how good something is made it can and will break. I've never met any of you folks from down south but the loyalty they show Spear One is impressive. You have to be a stand up guy to have that many people respect you and your products. Especially since they seem to have a few features that are a definate departure from the norm.

I see this thread as a good thing all around, a guy brought up a problem, asked for help from others, got a few suggestions, and a message from the man that made the product.

I don't own a SS gun but will someday, I just bought a JBL Woody Magnum before I joined this site and learned about SS.

No worries anywhere the way I see it.

subdude

[f94gator]

Kevin, it would take a LOT to tarnish your track record and the excellent reputation that your products have rightfully earned.

[slippery chicken]

if you are so worried about being without a gun maybe you should have a spare one. Do you go out with only one shaft in the gun also? I do own a commercial ss and have never had a problem with it, but I have never left the dock without an extra shaft, much less my spare ss commercial gun. If you are that serious about spear fishing get off you're damn wallet and buy an extra hadle just for insurance purposes. just my opinion.

[richhermes]

I echo Scott's sentiment and agree this should be resolved one on one with Kevin before posting your one-sided story on this board and at the "other" board.
This would be the best way for an amicable solution without any implied, whether intended or not, negative criticism.

I always look at issues like this like posting negative feedback on Ebay. Give the guy a chance to make it right before blasting him with negative feedback on a public forum.

Or if you're a new forum member with only 4 posts, hang out a while and get the vibe of the place. You would have found out Kevin, SpearOne, is a standup guy.

[joens]

There are not many SS guns here in Texas .It was after hearing about them on this board Istarted looking into them .I finally found a dive shop that carries them but it is about 10 hours drive from me.I know any dive shop could order one most likely but I want to deal with someone who has heard of them. Anyway I am the proud owner of a 52 Rhino and I love it .I dont think I will ever buy a gun that is not an SS. I am already thinking of getting a second one.
Joens

[grouperassasin]

Everyone,

Please understand, in NO WAY am I trying to blast anyone or especially SS or Kevin. As I mentioned in my post, Kevin has offered to work with me, along with my dealer. I love my SS gun, I was simply asking if anyone else had had the problem before. When I talked with my dealer about the issue, I was made to feel like the problem had never before been heard of and I was a total abnormality, I was simply trying to find out if anyone else had had a similar problem. Kevin, I will be contacting you soon, I still have not recieved the PM, so I will try to figure out how to retrieve it since I am new here and will call you to try to sort out something. I'm not trying to blast anyone! I tried to present all sides of the story that I was aware of and show that I wasn't a disgruntled customer at all, just trying to come to a resolution so I can continue to shoot fish. I love the SS gun and possibly I should have looked further into the matter and bought a one piece gun, however, I never thought of the difference in the flex of the gun/butt assembly. As far as maintenence and care of the gun, I do take very good care of it. My gun is cleaned and stored in a closet after each use, I even went so far as to buy the drawstring bag that covers the bands to minimize UV damage. I also purchased the SS spare shaft holder and an extra shaft that stays on my gun all the time. Kevin is a good guy from what I know and it could have been my dealer that let my gun sit at his shop for a while and possibly I didn't follow up as well as I should have when it got back and maybe it sat for a while then before I called to pick it up. Just wanted to say that I'm not trying to blast anyone here, Kevin makes a great product and has some great ideas, and I do plan on having a Commercial gun shortly which should get rid of this problem, was just inquiring if anyone else had the problem before? It could be an issue with Sea Hornet or I could have just had bad luck? Just wanting to Sling some steel and get in the water, that's all, definitely not bash anyone or any company that has the same goals as myself. I'll talk to you soon Kevin and look forward to a peaceful and productive resolution where we can all just shoot some fish! Sorry if this was taken the wrong way, no harm was meant by it AT ALL!:confused:

[rusty]

In answer to the question, as the owner of a 48" SS Rhino, I have had no problems with it in the 9 months I have had it (used on about 30 dives). I have replaced the bands as required, but that is standard maint.

just my .02

[Grande]

well not only can we learn about spearfishing on this board, but apparently we can also learn a little about customer service and honest business practices too. well done SO:cool:

[grouperassasin]

Spoke with Kevin yesterday and everything is worked out. He's going to put a slightly used Biller handle on the gun which he believes will fix the problem. That should hold me over until I get back from Africa and pick up a commercial gun, then my classic will be relegated to a backup role. Thank you Kevin for standing behind your product and taking great care of your customers. Next time I will bypass the dealer and go straight to the source. I will definitely continue to recommend SS to anyone else that I know of that is looking for a new gun! Thanks again.

[fishboy]

I use a 52 ss gun after two years of heavy use I blew out the trigger and cracked the butt of the trigger .I did not know this fellow kevin I just wanted the gun sounds like he stands behind his stuff .I just bought a biller trigger and installed it myself you just have to shave the wood some to make it fit .good luck they are great guns .....

[poorshot]

I contacted Kevin last Wed. about a broken clip and he sent the repair out at once. I got it UPS today. Thanks for the prompt service and making a great gun.

Art