New Bag limits for Grouper

[RichT]

This is no Joke!
Serious new grouper restriction are on the way unless we act. There is a very good chance that the recreational bag limit on grouper caught in the Gulf Of Mexico will be reduced from five fish to 3 fish, only one of which can be a red. There is also a very real chance of seeing as much as four months out of the year, that grouper fishing will be closed to ONLY recreational fisherman!

Im sure most of you have heard by now, the claim by National Marine Fisheries service that recreational fisherman exceeded their qouta by more than 100 percent last year.In fact, they claim we caught 2.5 times as much.
Pretty hard to believe because of four Hurricanes and the mid year reduction on the Red grouper bag limit of 5 to 2. :rolleyes:
Word has it that NMFS is sticking by their numbers despite what common sense is obviously telling them. Word also has it that they are getting a pretty good amount of flak from concerned individuals disputing their so-called facts.
We must keep the heat on the individuals who are trying to stuff garbage down our throats!
There have been Numerous threads discussing this on Florida Sportsman and I am putting up a link to an individual who has summed up the facts quite well.
http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=339833
I urge All of you to write a letter to NMFS, your state Senators and Representatives and the Gulf Council. We have shown already that our collective efforts can make a difference!
Due to the many letters that have already been recieved by NMFS, public input meetings are being scheduled up and down the Gulf Coast.

These restrictions WILL happen unless you take the time to get involved NOW!

[Kahuna]

Rich, this scares the sht out of me.

Does anybody believe the Bullsht? Four hurricanes last year. How many decent weekends so far this year? Gas $2.25 a gallon and now they want a closed season based on corrupt information.

My wife went to Tallahassee a couple of weeks ago and learned a few things while she was there. Individuals don't matter. Common sense doesn't exist. Money and votes make the world go round.

If someone can post mailing addresses, emails also, and we show how strong our numbers are. We can make a difference.

Albeit I am not as good or avid a diver as a lot of you guys and probably won't compete. I pm'd Deny the other day to let him know my boat is available at my cost for the next tournament to anybody who needs a ride and will donate to the FRA. And it looks like my boss and his 28Ft Contender will join in.

By the time my son can drive my boat what will be left, pinfish? If this closure happens it will NEVER be lifted.

[Stealthdiver]

This is BS, ok, my take for the year, only 1 grouper trip, 15 keepers for the entire year of 2005, the rest of the trips, blown out, somebodys getting some bs info...f

[Divin' fool]

Three Fish???!!! Why even go if that's all you can get!

[junior]

Does anyone have all the contact info readily available for Pinellas residents? I don't have the time to dig it all up and I know someone has it. Thanks.

[Denny]

Hang tough, all. There will be an entire list of contacts on the FRA web site by tonight. Many in the state government are very interested in what is happening with the grouper fishery. They will be notified.
We need to make sure our message is heard by the regulators.
NO NEW REGULATION CHANGES FOR RECREATIONAL GROUPER.

[RichT]

Things are NOT looking good guys. :(
Some people to send E mails would be,
roy.crabtree@NOAA.gov He is bigshot at NMFS
phil.steele@noaa.gov another bigshot

Gulfcouncil@gulfcouncil.org Sending here will direct your letter to all council members and staff.

Seriously, there is a lot of nothing going on here on Spearboard and if everybody who has the time to type about political junk, jokes, etc... would just spend a few minutes to send these people your concerns about the validity of the assesment and the economic impacts to recreational fishing and diving, we may just be able to accomplish something.
Time IS running out Im afraid!

[stickitfishy]

I sent my e-mails. The government is corrupt and we know it. What should be done is that everyone that sits on The Gulf Council or NMFS, should have all of their financial transactions and assets investigated. With them trying to open commercial longlining for swordfishing in closed areas under the guise of research and now the grouper thing while a longliner is busted in Tampa for having how many shorts; some of these people have got to be on the take and they need some stress in their lives don't you think? That's my two cents!!

[fishkilla]

mr. crabtree,

you've got to be kidding me! this is unjust and irresponsible of the nmfs to impose such hard restrictions upon the industry that supplies the most amount of money to the economy. i run a charter boat out of maderia beach and it's hard enough to make money at that business as is. if you drop my costomers limits from 5 to 3 i can say goodbye to the out of state business that i recieve. do not allow this to happen.

thank you for you time,

capt. ben bateman

813 431 8508

1903 lakeview ave
seffner fl 33584

[fishkilla]

i'm also dropping off another letter to my local congress mans office this afternoon.


Dear Senator Tom Lee,

I am extremely concerned about fishing proposals that might soon turn into law. You may or may not be able to do anything about this but I at least want you to be aware of what potentially could happen to the citizens in your district and our state. The Department of Commerce governs the Gulf Council and right now the Gulf Council wants to limit grouper catches from 5 per person to 3. Last year my father, a good friend and I decided to go into the Charter Fishing industry. After jumping through many hoops and spending close to $200,000.00 on a boat, charter permits, insurance, fishing gear and many pieces of safety equipment we started our business. We have clients come from all over the State of Florida and across this country to go out and spear or hook and line fish on our boat. If we lose our right to keep 5 fish per day this will be very detrimental to our new business. A recreational diver or fisherman will spend thousands of dollars for a 5 fish daily bag limit. Commercially a grouper at best fetches $3.00 dollars a pound. Recreationally a grouper generates hundreds of dollars a pound for our economy. (travel expenses to get to our boat, dive tanks and gear, fishing rods, fishing tackle, ect.) A commercially caught grouper only brings a few dollars a pound to our economy. I think it is unfair and disrespectful to the citizens of Florida and the visitors of our state to lose our rights to just a few fish when the commercial industry is allowed to keep millions of pounds per year.

I would really appreciate it if you could find just a few minutes for me to explain to you in better detail what is going on and how this is going to hurt not just our small business but many others who are in our same situation.

Thank You For Your Time,



Capt. Benjamin Bateman


1903 Lakeview Ave.
Seffner Fl, 33584

813 431-8508

[webers2]

Here is more contact infomation. The council operates under the authority of the Department of Commerce. These are the people that influence and/or make the the ultimate decision. E-mails are great, but calls realy eat up their day, and staff's time. Call too.




Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez
Office of the Secretary
Room 5516
U.S. Department of Commerce
14th & Constitution Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20230

Phone:
202-482-2000

Email:
CGutierrez@doc.gov

Sam Rauch
General Counsel for Fisheries
National Marine Fisheries Service
1315 East-West Highway
SSMC-3, Room 15602
Silver Spring, MD 20910
(301)713-2231 x175 (Office)
(301) 938-6431 (Mobile)
samuel.rauch@noaa.gov <mailto:samuel.rauch@noaa.gov>

Robin Jung (Male)
Southeast General Counsel
National Marine Fisheries Service
9721 Executive Center Drive North
St Petersburg, FL 33702
(727)570-5455
robin.jung@noaa.gov <mailto:robin.jung@noaa.gov>

[Jaizzen]

Mr. Crabtree,
I am very disturbed about what is being proposed and discussed over the reduction of grouper in recreational limits. I have read all the data the was supplied to you to and have come to the conclusion that the recreational numbers used to recommend the closure are severely flawed. Based on what I have read and from some simple COMMON SENSE, I am truly concerned that the information provided is simply not real data. Coming off of the worst Gulf Fishing year (as far as weather goes) for as long as I can remember, there is absolutely no way that the numbers reflected could be anywhere close to accurate. I am all for preservation of our fishery, but I believe that things have really gotten out of hand here. There are many factors that show that the numbers provided with respect to recreational catch are an impossibility. This information has been sent to you and your staff and I know that you are aware . Any study that reported that much disparity from previous numbers deserves to be investigated. Any law passed based on such information would be irresponsible at best. This problem should be looked at immediately.

Up until now I was convinced that the council was trying to do the right thing. However, I am really confused about the ideas and decisions coming across as of late. I've been kind of quiet until now and voiced my opinion here and there but am now convinced that I need to make more of an effort as a sportsman and a voter in Florida. I am now going to support the FRA, a non-profit organization that seems to have a good grasp on what's actually going on. I along with a list of friends, business partners, and colleagues will back this organization both monetarily and with my time. I hope you read what others and myself have written and seek a more thorough way of obtaining information to pass laws on.

I thank you in advance for your time,

Thanks,

Jason M. Stanley

[Stealthdiver]

Sent my emails, thanks for the links ! frank

[fishkilla]

my rain out day for window cleaning has become quite productive now. i've called all the numbers listed and left messages. i will be calling all of them again in a few hours and then tomorrow a few more times.

get to it people! don't allow these people who work for "us" to do this to us!

[fishkilla]

i just got a call from Shepherd Grimes he works with Robin Jung. Robin is a prosecuter for NMFS and doesn't have anything to do with the proposed laws. he would just be the guy enforcing any new rules.

he told me to call

phil steel
727 824 5305

[Grauer]

I sent my letter in,
and made an offer to my customers to comp an hour of billable time if they join the FRA.

[RichT]

Sample letter One of many sent.


Dear Mr

I am A very avid recreational angler and diver that has been fishing and diving the waters of West Central Florida for over 26 years.
I am an active member of the Coastal Conservation Association and the Fishing Rights Alliance.

I am appalled at the news I have been hearing and reading about that the recreational sector is about to be hit yet again with major new grouper fishing restrictions based on an obviously flawed assessment.

Im sure you have heard about this very questionable assesment. Its results indicated that recreational fisherman somehow caught more that twice as many fish as usual. Whats interesting to note is that the charterboat fleet that fishes the very same waters had only a very minor increase in catch.Doesnt this seem questionable?
If recreational anglers were catching fish in the numbers stated in the assesment it would certainly be very big news and be heralded in newspapers and internet forums. No such thing has occured!

There was virtually no increase in fishing licenses from 2003-2004 and I can tell you for fact that I did not catch any more fish in 2004 than 2003. I have kept a logbook for almost ten years that does not show any increase at all in my catch.
My catch rate has been pretty level for the last five years. One other thing my logs do show is far less trips in 2004 because of terrible weather the State of Florida had last year mainly due to the 4 hurricanes that struck the state of Florida last year.

Combine this with a bag limit reduction of 60 percent for Red grouper, from 5 to 2 in mid year 2004, and it is obvious to me that this assessment must have gone terribly awry.

I feel that if NMFS or the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council moves forward with ANY new grouper restrictions there will be a severe Soci- economic impact to the recreational and charterboat industry, the likes of which will have severe political and economic ramifications for years to come.

As you probably know, the recreational and charterboat industries are multi-billion dollar industries and the grouper portion of these industries are a major component.

Some questions I have are :
1. If NMFS decides to move forward with these restrictions based on this flawed science, then how can the allocation between recreational and commercial be changed?

I understand that commercial fishing accounts for 81 percent of the allowable harvest of Red grouper and nearly 50 percent of the Gag grouper.Its also my understanding that the commercial sector is allowed to catch over 5 times as much as the recreational sector before reaching their qouta.


2. Why cant the harvest share be more equitable?
3.Why is it not currently?

4. Why couldn't trip limits be enacted that reduce the commercial take sufficiently to allow the recreational sector enough so that these proposed recreational restrictions do not have to be enacted?

Or better yet, ban the highly destructive practice of Longlining!
Longlining is being proven around the world to be an overly efficient method of fishing with an exceedingly high bycatch. As a diver I have personnaly seen the actual gears destructiveness to the bottom habitat and the reefs upon which it is laid.

If you banned longlining and converted all the current longline boats to vertical gear boats you would be able to allocate more grouper for the recreational fishery as well as have a far more abundant and healthy fishery from which to harvest!

I eagerly await your response.

Sincerely,
Richard Taylor

[Marcus]

Just sent mine.

"Dear Sir,

I am extremely concerned about the recent attempts at limiting the recreational catch of grouper. As an educated man, having taken graduate level statistical analysis classes, I have reviewed the data presented by NMFS and the methods by which this data was obtained and I am appalled that any laws would be considered being passed based on this non-relevant data. Not only is the data not suitable for being used as basis for law, but the reasoning being utilized is also in question. For example, the catches go up, so NMFS says that too many grouper are being taken and the catch needs to be limited? What if the catches went down? I have no doubt that the NMFS would’ve said that this indicates that there aren’t enough grouper out there and they would AGAIN be recommending that the catch needs to be limited.
This reeks of special interests, namely commercial fishing interests, which are working diligently to degrade the quality of life for the citizens of Florida in order to line their own pockets. The money that recreational fishermen bring to the economy is at least an order of magnitude more than what the commercial fishermen do. These laws are a detriment to the economy and a detriment to the freedoms of Florida citizens. I’m a Manatee County native and I have become acutely aware of the activities to limit recreational catches for the benefit of commercial catches. I find this trend an infringement on my rights and liberties as a Florida citizen and this concerns me deeply with regards to the rights that my kid will have once grown. I have recently joined organizations to fight for the rights of the recreational fisherman. I have also implored friends and family to do so as well and am increasingly educating everyone I know of this BS. If this law is passed, rest assured the individuals/organizations that have pushed for this law to be passed and the lawmakers who voted for it will incur the wrath of the organized recreational anglers whose numbers are growing quickly due to such BS legislation.


Sincerely,

Mark Franey
Manatee County Native"

[Bigfish53]

If you have time to be reading this thread, please take the time time to at least send an e-mail. Click on a link and spend two minutes. this is too important to leave for someone else to do. There is power in numbers!

[Grauer]

Since I know this wont be the last letter i send, I created a distribution list in outlook, so now all I have to do write my own or use a sample letter ,click on the Distribution group followed by send. Now it only takes me about <3min to vioce my opinions.

[normanhghntr]

sent mine
Mr. Crabtree
My name is Norman Vogel and i live in Key West Florida and I am sendind you this letter
with concern for the misinformation you have recieved about the grouper fisheries. After one of the worst years on the water I should say off the water due to weather conditions these numbers you have recieved cannot possibly be correct. You all should waste your time tackeling the real problems, longlining, fish traps and the Bycatch these non selective types of slaughter provide. I suggest we all get together and form a special council that basis their decisions on facts, not myths, and find some folks that care about our environment a little bit more. the problem is not the recreational fishermen , its the state of the entire fisheries and once thriving eco systym going down the tubes. You as intelligent persons know that this issue needs to be addresed from the bottom up. Cruise ships dumping in our waters, sulfates and nitrates choking our reefs, loss of habitat and estueries due to over population, ect ect ect, welcome to the fishless capitol of the world!! bring your cement mixers and call it home!! If you all need real information, get it from the source, the people who spend the most time on the water!! Thank you ,
Norman Vogel

[Mutt]

I really don't understand this logic. I am guessing that these guys are thinking that they don't have the manpower nor the strength nor the political capital to control the commercial Longline and seafood/restaurant industry.

The commission is dictated to get some sort of control over this fishery...guess what...it is easier to control the individual than it is the Industry.

Denny is right, this fight is all about that in a nut shell. The side with the most perserverance, political Capital, and sheer will wins this fight.

The easy answer for the commission is to take the low road.....to go after the recreational fisherman, whom they realize for the most part has a fairly solid Moral Compass and for the most part are going to Play by the rules according to Hoyle. So for them they can be perceived by congress, by the world that they are saving the fishery, when in reality they are trying to impose limits and trying to fix what is only 10-25% (at best) of the problem. You fix 10-25% and you virtually gain nothing in the long run.

The Real answer is to run off the longliners, buy them out, retool them..Do whatever it takes. That take a lot of money, political clout, and perserverance. And than come to some reasonable way to control the Grouper fishery Take AFTER THAT...

Frankly, the only way to Fix this, or win this Battle..that being to Save Florida's Recreation Grouper Fishery is to somehow build an enormous Groundswell at the Local, Community, State, & Regional Level...incorporating all Friends, neighbors, Everyone. Until that is done, I doubt this Gorilla is Taken down. How do u get every community and neighborhood involved...That is the answer that everyone will be asking themselves 25- 50 years from now when the fishery stock here in Florida is like many others...Fished Out, if a solution is not found!

Are we crying wolf here...No..if we were there wouldn't be a commision on the subject. Can the Recreational Fishery Beat the Industrial Fishery...Maybe...with Massive and Copious Amounts of Perserverance and Political Clout, Calling all Floridians, Friends, neighbors, countrymen!!!! What do you do? Accumulate Friends neighbors and countrymen to sustain this fight very quickly!

[junior]

What about buying a longline boat and run video non-stop on a few trips and turn it over to all the news stations across the country so that everyone can finally see just what a wasteful practice supplies their dinner plate at restaurants. While we're at it, how about some good footage of a shrimp by-catch so everyone can finally see that shrimpin' ain't some kind of golly-gee Forrest and Lt. Dan fairy tale. Recreational fisherman are not the problem and these guys can't do anything but come up with TOTALLY BOGUS numbers so that they can stick it to the people that really pay the bills.

[swimndive]

Those stats that NMFS is using to buttress their argument are B.S. and nothing but a smokescreen designed to coax consumer groups into wasting precious resources fighting meaningless battles.

I believe the NMFS currently gets it's power from the endangered species act,
http://www.gulfbase.org/issue/view.php?iid=endangered
and it answers only to congressmen. Congressmen answer to lobbyists, and lobbyists auction their services off to the highest bidders. Guess who those bidders might be?

But, in a strange twist of fate, take a look at this report:
http://www.marinepbc.org/economics.htm to see who might now gain a seat at the bargaining table. It's really not as much about fishing anymore, as it is about boating, taxes, jobs and general economic prosperity.

In addition, it appears that several in congress are also looking into making this year some kind of epic ocean conservation political jamboree. Obviously it would pay dividends to enlist all local politicians and academics who make careers out of getting and spending taxpayer funded grant monies.Here's an article that may be familiar to you BoatUs members. It breaks down this new agenda and tells you who to contact. This whole ocean agenda could possibly neuter the NMFS as far as controlling specific species.This seems to fit in with everyone around here wants in the first place. http://www.boatus.com/news/policy_0505.htm. Thoughts?

[fishkilla]

my economic prosperity looks pretty dim if they cut my limit of 5 fish to 3.

[webers2]

Mutt,

Your post would make a great letter. Please take the time to send it to your elected oficials, NMFS, the Department of Commerce, etc.


Remember guys, every time you take the time to post on these topics, take the extra step to make that post a letter to those who realy need to hear from you.

Don't just preach to the choir--scream in the ear of those who make the decisions!

BTW, faxes and phone calls ofte have more of a punch thatn nan e-mail. its easy to delete and not read them.

Here are some contact persons you guys can send letters to:


Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez
Office of the Secretary
Room 5516
U.S. Department of Commerce
14th & Constitution Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20230

Phone:
202-482-2000

Email:
CGutierrez@doc.gov

Sam Rauch
General Counsel for Fisheries
National Marine Fisheries Service
1315 East-West Highway
SSMC-3, Room 15602
Silver Spring, MD 20910
(301)713-2231 x175 (Office)
(301) 938-6431 (Mobile)
samuel.rauch@noaa.gov <mailto:samuel.rauch@noaa.gov>

Robin Jung (Male)
Southeast General Counsel
National Marine Fisheries Service
9721 Executive Center Drive North
St Petersburg, FL 33702
(727)570-5455
robin.jung@noaa.gov <mailto:robin.jung@noaa.gov>

[Screen Name]

My letter is in the works. I hope everyone else is close to finishing theirs too. This is a bad, bad, situation.

[Mutt]

Done!

[RichT]

It might be a good idea to send a hard copy to these two guys at NMFS as well.

Phil steele
NMFS
263 13th Ave S
Saint Petersburg, Fl. 33701

and

Dr. Roy Crabtree
NMFS
263 13th Ave S
Saint Petersburg,Fl 33701

or call them as they both have much to do with this!
727-824-5301

[Grauer]

It might be a good idea to send a hard copy to these two guys at NMFS as well.

Phil steele
NMFS
263 13th Ave S
Saint Petersburg, Fl. 33701

and

Dr. Roy Crabtree
NMFS
263 13th Ave S
Saint Petersburg,Fl 33701

or call them as they both have much to do with this!
727-824-5301


Good Idea, They will hear my voice tomorrow, and my wife's, my mom's, dad's etc

[Fishkabobs]

I sent one and received this e-mail in return from Robin Jung.


'Josh, I am an enforcement attorney here at NOAA and as such have nothing to do with the drafting of regulations or fishery management plans. Not sure how you got my name, but I have been receiving numerous comments from concerned citizens. I am forwarding your email to the appropriate persons.'


He forwarded my letter to Phil Steele if that name means anything to anyone.

[Spear One]

my economic prosperity looks pretty dim if they cut my limit of 5 fish to 3.

Unfortunately Ben, I believe they are not gonna be happy until every offshore species has a "one" limit per person and is closed to harvest at least 4 months per year. IMO, the only thing that has a chance of stopping this scenario from happening is.........a public uprising of biblical proportions.

[Screen Name]

I sent one and received this e-mail in return from Robin Jung.


'Josh, I am an enforcement attorney here at NOAA and as such have nothing to do with the drafting of regulations or fishery management plans. Not sure how you got my name, but I have been receiving numerous comments from concerned citizens. I am forwarding your email to the appropriate persons.'


He forwarded my letter to Phil Steele if that name means anything to anyone.

I think it means that he is the guy that is going to prosecute you if you have four Grouper.

And, he is going after the longliners too if they have much more than 10,000 lbs. :rolleyes: :confused: However, their bykill (wasted fish) of 10,000 lbs for the same trip is legal...........This is all authorized by the same Govt agency that is going to reduce your Grouper quota to three on the basis of the most abhorrent data that I have seen in my lifetime.

[RichT]

I just received this E-mail written by Bob Zales courtesy of "Denny".
They are at the Gulf Council meeting working their tails off for all of you.
Unfortunately, I wish it was better news. :(
Not sure what its gonna take to get more of you guys involved but if this BS doesnt, I dont know what will. :rolleyes:


Dr. Crabtree has told the reef fish committee that as of today he is working on a red grouper/shallow water grouper recreational interim rule to be effective sometime after July 2005. Currently he is looking at a 3 fish aggregate bag limit with 1 fish being red grouper and an October thru December closure for 2005. The reef fish committee has voted to piggy back public hearings on the red grouper/shallow grouper recreational fishery interim rule on the public hearings already scheduled for June on reef fish amendment 18A and the charter boat moratorium. The reef fishery committee is currently discussing the regulatory rule that will permanently change the red grouper recreational regulations. I suggest that all interested parties be prepared to attend any public hearing where this issue will be discussed to let their feelings be known. I will send info on the public hearing sites and dates soon. The full council has to agree to piggy backing the public hearings. As you can see the closure has been reduced from the earlier proposed 4 months to 3. If you have problems with the closure and/or the proposed bag limits please continue to voice your opinions to Dr. Crabtree, the Gulf Council, and Dr. Hogarth. You may also want to voice your opinion to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. Stayed tuned.
Bob Zales, II

[Nsearch]

:mad: :(

Practically sounds like they've already made up their minds and are just going through the legal BS to get it into action.

[sneakyslayer]

Why isnt there any media coverge by the newspapers or television?

Beside joining the FRA and calling and sending letters. How can more attention be brought to the subject. It all seems very back handed and back roomed. What about our state represenatives.

How can we make change if we have no power. If this all we can throw at them and its not good enough what do we do next.
How do we impeach the asswholes responsible.

[Spear One]

:mad: :(

Practically sounds like they've already made up their minds and are just going through the legal BS to get it into action.

Exactly my point from my previous post above.

[Stealthdiver]

3 bag limit is bad enough, to close the season for 4 mths is the most stupid thing i've ever heard, looks like a lotta boats are going up for sale. Also i'd never buy another new one, and tackle, well everyone needs about half of what they got, dive gear, cut it in half, better make sure the boat dealers, tackle shops, and dive shops know whats going on because this is going to effect them alot if i'm guessing right...frank

[Marcus]

THIS IS F'ING BS. :mad: We definitely need some media coverage on this. I'm going to see if I can find some reporters email addresses tonight. I'll be diving tomorrow and won't be able to.

[RichT]

THIS IS F'ING BS. :mad: We definitely need some media coverage on this. I'm going to see if I can find some reporters email addresses tonight. I'll be diving tomorrow and won't be able to.

Heres a little help. ;)
http://capwiz.com/fran/dbq/media/?command=state_search&state=FL

[Kahuna]

Most of you guys in the Tampa Bay Area have seen my wife and kids on Bay News 9, Channel 10, Channel 13 and most of the newspapers. I am the guy being sued by the Homeowners Assin-a-zation for having a swingset for my kids and have been in court for years. I have made a few media contacts. This story needs some leggs. I need phone numbers of people who can sell this.

[Grauer]

Most of you guys in the Tampa Bay Area have seen my wife and kids on Bay News 9, Channel 10, Channel 13 and most of the newspapers. I am the guy being sued by the Homeowners Assin-a-zation for having a swingset for my kids and have been in court for years. I have made a few media contacts. This story needs some leggs. I need phone numbers of people who can sell this.


The Guys who seem to know and understand this game,
Are Rich Taylor , Dennis Ohern, John Schmit. If you have contacts with media and need a knowledgeable spoke person, I would approach them and see if they were willing to participate.

[Danimal]

Has anyone from FRA contacted the Institute for Justice (http://www.ij.org/profile/index.html)? This might be something they'd be interested in taking up. Damned good group, the IJ.

[RichT]

The Gulf Council has already passed the decision for emergency rule making on to the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS).
The guys making the decision on the recreational restrictions based on an assesment they know is wrong will be Roy Crabtree and Phil Steele.
Their offices are in Saint Petersburg,Florida at 263 13th Avenue South in case any one wants to stop by and have a chat with these individuals.


Their contact info is as follows:
Roy Crabtree
roy.crabtree@noaa.gov
ph. 727824-5301
fax. 727-824-5320

Phil Steele
Phil.steele@noaa.gov
ph. 727-824-5305
fax.727-824-5308

[RichT]

It was recently announced that there will be 4 public comment hearings on this. The locations for the hearings will be Key west,Fort Myers, Saint Petersburg, and Destin.
We will need to make our voices heard. And if they are not heard then, perhaps a little civil dis-obedience will be in order?
It seems to work for other groups. ;)

[Nsearch]

It was recently announced that there will be 4 public comment hearings on this. The locations for the hearings will be Key west,Fort Myers, Saint Petersburg, and Destin.

I know it'll be announced but please post the dates for these meetings ASAP.

[Dive4Blood]

Here's my spin on the situation. What they really want is the three grouper limit. They are threatening the four month closure as a scare tactic/bargaining chip that they will take of the table once we scream in outrage and jump up and down. That way it looks as if they are compromising, and makes it more likely that we will swallow the reduced bag since we had a "victory" on the closure. Negotiation 101, do it everyday.....

As far as the public hearings, I really don't think that any impact can made by individual speeches, no matter how impassioned, or logically sound. These people pretty much have their agendas set, are present only because they are REQUIRED to listen to public testimony, and honestly after you've heard versions of the same argument 100 times in the same night, how much do you think is actually registering?

The only impact will be in NUMBERS. Each one of these meeting needs to be packed to rafters. I'm talking every seat filled, and the aisles and back areas with HUNDREDS of standing, very vocal, disgruntled people. Media presence during these hearings both in print, and televison is also key. Anyone who spearfishes off Florida waters in the Gulf of Mexico MUST attend one if not more of these meetings. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

This is the line in the sand.

AJ Suarez

[Kahuna]

I have a question. How will this affect the charters or the cattle boats? Are they considered recreational or commercial.

[RichT]

I have a question. How will this affect the charters or the cattle boats? Are they considered recreational or commercial.



Good question! Its my undertanding that they are recreational.
They will certainly be deeply affected by the proposed bag limits and closure.

[RichT]

Here's my spin on the situation. What they really want is the three grouper limit. They are throwing out the four month closure as a scare tactic that they will take of the table once we scream in outrage and jump up and down. That way it looks as if they are compromising, and makes it more likely that we will swallow the reduced bag since we had a "victory" on the closure. Negotiation 101, do it everyday.....

As far as the public hearings, I really don't think that any impact can made by individual speeches, no matter how impassioned, or logically sound. These people pretty much have their agendas set, are present only because they are REQUIRED to listen to public testimony, and honestly after you've heard versions of the same argument 100 times in the same night, how much do you think is actually registering?

The only impact will be in NUMBERS. Each one of these meeting needs to be packed to rafters. I'm talking every seat filled, and the aisles and back areas with HUNDREDS of standing, very vocal, disgruntled people. Media presence during these hearings both in print, and televison is also key. Anyone who spearfishes off Florida waters in the Gulf of Mexico MUST attend one if not more of these meetings. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

This is the line in the sand.

AJ Suarez



I tend to agree with D4b's assessment of the situation

[Grauer]

This just isnt a Spearfishing issue it is also a Hook n line issue.

What about the the AM fishing shows? Capt Mel.

I just looked at the home page of his website and it doesnt say anything regarding the closure.
However there is a forum that could be joined.

d4b is right we need to show up in numbers.

[Rolo]

Rich,

I've been following this thread and it's alarming. I would be willing to add to the numbers Armando mentioned by attending the Ft. Myers meeting, it's the shortest drive for me. Please let us know the dates and I'm willing to drive my car with at least four other guys from Miami who would be willing to help out by being present. Again, please give us the times and dates for all the venues listed and I'll make plans on attending and coordinate around my job. This affects us all, not just the Gulf guys.

Any SoFla guys who would like to hitch a ride with me to go help these guys, feel free to chime on here or send me a PM.

[kitefisherman]

Rolando, I'll go with you. I could meet you somewhere near the east end of Alligator Alley (Weston?).

[Rolo]

You got it John, right before we make the cross on 75 (We'll coordinate it later). That's one spot, can fit 2-3 more.

[Kahuna]

Dear Tom:

The subject has come up frequently on my 970-WFLA radio show in recent weeks -- and will continue to be a hot topic with many.

As a matter of fact, during last week's program, Vance Tice of Tightlines Tackle was on for a good chunk of time to talk about the subject extensively.

Unfortunately, our guests and topics have been previously scheduled through June -- and we will not be able to have a guest specific to that issue.

However, please feel free to call our show to express the concerns and views of the FRA and your fellow members. Perhaps you can get that conversation going.

My own view is that -- until all longlines are removed from Gulf waters -- there will never be any justification for reducing the recreational grouper catch.

By the way, on June 11th, both Frank Sargeant, outdoors editor of the Tampa Tribune and Karl Wickstrom, publisher and founder of Florida Sportsman Magazine will join me to talk about this pressing issue -- as well as a look-back to the decade since the Florida net ban.

Thanks for listening to our 970-WFLA radio show, and for making our site one of your Internet destinations.

Capt. Mel Berman
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Host, "Florida's most popular radio fishing show" on air since 1985...
The Capt. Mel Berman Show" 6 to 9 AM Sat on 970-WFLA, Tampa & Internet

[Dive4Blood]

Just pulled this off the Florida Sportsman site:

Mon Jun 27 - Key West
Tues Jun 28 - Naples
Wed Jun 29 - Madeira Beach
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start making yourself available to attend at least one of these meetings. In the prophetically wise words of Dee Snider, lead singer of Twisted Sister,
"We're not going to take it. No, we ain't going to take it. We're not going to take it anymore!"

AJ Suarez

[phlipper]

I don't even shoot red grouper...this is ridiculus. What's gonna be next? I'm calling my congressmen and telling him to cut off the money supply to the NMFS. Looks like it might need to be spent on the subsidies to the soon to be out of work boating industry. Guess I'll stop looking for a boat now.

[Rolo]

Tues Jun 28 - Naples

Awesome, that's even closer than Ft. Myers. Let us know the times when available. Any other SoFla divers want to join John (Kitefisherman) and I for a ride across "The Alley"? All are welcomed, I'll be there.

[Kahuna]

Please read the above post of Capt Mels email to me. He INVITED us to call him and express our concerns. Deny, John, can somebody who can make a logical argument on this call in and the rest of us will follow up? I know its not national news but I am sure most of the listeners don't know how close this is to happening and would be a good first step to more media.

[Tom Keels]

Here's my spin on the situation. What they really want is the three grouper limit. They are threatening the four month closure as a scare tactic/bargaining chip that they will take of the table once we scream in outrage and jump up and down. That way it looks as if they are compromising, and makes it more likely that we will swallow the reduced bag since we had a "victory" on the closure. Negotiation 101, do it everyday.....

AJ Suarez


This is EXACTLY what they did last time this issue came up. They proposed almost WORD FOR WORD the exact same thing as Crabtree. The vocal majority got there and they backed down on the closed season and completely dropped gag grouper out of the equation. I know, I was at the hearing.

They will listen to individuals, but only if the individual makes a valid, concise, and articlulate argument. What we don't need is every joe six pack spouting curses through a slow southern drawl. Realize I'm not stereotyping, just relaying info from what I saw at the Destin meetings a few years back.

I will give pointers to anyone attending the hearings. You have to fill out a card with your name and contact info if you intend to speak. The cards go into a box and are drawn out one at a time for folks to come up and speak. You are normally given about 2 minutes to make a point. I encourage everyone to fill out a card even if you don't want to speak. If you have a representive from a local fishing club, org, etc. have them prepare the statements and if they run out of time to complete them if your name is called you can give your time to another person to speak.

Go in large groups and if possible, where like shirts, hats, etc to identify yourself with a particular group. Last time CCA gave out red hats to all the recs and it really makes a visual statement to the council.

Do not raise your voice, or personally attack anyone on the council or the council themselves. You may question the motives of the council, but not attack their integrity in the open forum. Present your arguments as opinion from a group, backed up with facts when at all possible.

Be prepared to answer questions from council members who are both for or opposed to your stance. If you do not think quickly on your feet or cannot get an answer ready in your alloted time, then ask to respond later using donated time from another speaker.

Dress appropriately.

Whatever you do, do not use the argument that you will quit fishing altogether if this ammendment passes. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO!!!

Like I said these are just suggestions based on my observations from previous public hearings.

[Denny]

thanks for the input, Tom. I will be at each input session in south FL and Mad Beach. We set up a couple hours eary, run a continuous powerpoint presentation on the issues and provide handouts with instructions on how to present your input. The session was quite successful in Tampa last November.
The times are not yet firmed up, but should be around 6-10PM

an FYI so everyone understands:
Because the grouper regs are an emergency action, Dr. Crabtree is not required to take or consider public input when making his decision. However, the state of Florida has requested the National marine Fisheries Service (Dr. Crabtree) take public input and also provide the state with an economic impact statement.
After the emergency rule is published in the Federal Register, there is a comment period which NMFS IS required to accept comment under.

We can make a difference, but we must make our shots count.
Our #1 contention should be that we have neither experienced or heard of anyone who experienced ANY significant increase in Red Grouper landings in 2004. This is referred to as "anecdotal evidence" and does carry some weight.

[Screen Name]

Moved these to reg area.....don't let that stop you from joining the FRA and doing your part to fight this absurdity.

By the way, I agree with Captain Mel.

[Mutt]

Re: Grouper Bag Limit meetings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flash Point Local ABC w/ Brendon Mclaughlin (sp)

Charlie Crist, Fla's Attorney General is Obviously on the Side of the People on our issue here. Charlie Stated This morning....on Flash Point that "I introduced A Bill to Ban Commercial Fishing in Florida...It was the Will of the People (over 70% voted) and it was Defeated by the Strong Commercial Fishing Lobby"...Obviously, he is Tuned into this Fight....May not be a bad idea to Get Charlie Crist, George Bush, etc everyone knows that george senior is an Avid Recreation Fisherman here in Florida. I suppose we need to bring out the Big Guns Jeb Bush, and George Senior in on this. Charlie is tied to the hip w/ the Bush's. Obviously he is tuned into this Issue. Charlie could be the Advocate that The People need here...again..This time Crist has more Power to work with this time around! He could be this issues Biggest Power Broker. I believe that it Time to contact Charlie and Jeb in whatever form or fashion it takes. Letters, meetings, etc. Obviously, Charlie will be more immediate avail. Someone, obviously already has his ear on this, as I believe he strategically, but very briefly, mentioned this this morning. I think this an obvious follow up w/ Local ABC's Brendon Mcglaughlin. This fight need not be over, by any means

[Spear One]

[QUOTE=Denny]Because the grouper regs are an emergency action, Dr. Crabtree is not required to take or consider public input when making his decision. QUOTE]

This is not good but it does not mean it cannot be overcome. A "mass" public protest against this proposal is likely the only action you can take which has any chance at all of stoping this from becoming rule.

[Kahuna]

I had emailed Capt Mel last week and he invited the FRA to speak thier concerns. Deny did great. Capt Mel interrupted his show for the call and gave Deny about 5 minutes and some good plugs for the Website. I emailed Capt Mel to thank him and this was the repsonse.

Dear Tom:

Keep fighting the good fight. We need to counter the undue influence of the commercials.

Hopefully, we have done some good discussing it on today's program.

If you have any releases on the FRA's efforts and schedules of hearings, I would be happy to post them on my web site and mention on my 970-WFLA radio show.

Just send them to mel@capmel.com.

Best regards,

Capt. Mel Berman


Deny said that Frank Sargent interviewed him and is on board.

You guys in Tampa Bay Area remeber who your friends are.

Capt Mels show claims 12,000 listeners. If we get a 1% response that would really help at the local meeting here. I will try to contact the other Sat fishing show on 1040 . Every little bit helps.

If the big guns as mentioned above in another post would get involved that would be fantastic. I am not sure what I can do about big numbers but I can work on exposure in my area of influence. I know everyone on this board knows what is going on but I don't think the average weekender does and that's where I am targeting my efforts. Cones get just as angry when someone is unreasonably taking something away from them as anyone else and numbers eventually drive big guns.

Deny, my local dive shops and tackle shops have agreed to let me post something about the meeting in this area. I have not spoken to the repair shops here but I am sure they would go along. Does the FRA have anything? My idea is that the owners of these businesses have a vested interest and could help to educate thier customers of what is going on and to get them involved. Other than the cost of a poster this would be great "FREE" advertisment for the FRA from a local trusted source.

2000 people at the meeting with all the TV stations filming the meeting would go a long way.

[Denny]

[QUOTE=Denny]Because the grouper regs are an emergency action, Dr. Crabtree is not required to take or consider public input when making his decision. QUOTE]

This is not good but it does not mean it cannot be overcome. A "mass" public protest against this proposal is likely the only action you can take which has any chance at all of stoping this from becoming rule.

Mass public input WILL overcome this potential travesty. So will a healthy challenge of the MRFSS numbers that are driving the regulation.
The public input is being scheduled due to a direct request from Florida's FWC Commissioners. This request was generated due to public concern. Our voice is being heard.