Definition of a Jetty

[smilinmatt]

Does anyone know how the State of Florida defines a jetty and where in the statutes that definition is located? I'm looking to find out if an area is off-limits to spearing or if it's allowable. If it's allowable, I'd like to keep a laminated copy of the definition on me to prevent any confusion with the FWC.

There are a lot of rock piles around the Skyway bridge (Tampa area) that are loaded with sheepshead begging to be shot. Some are obviously jetties, while others don't fit the definition of what I'd consider a jetty. One in particular is a pile of rocks extending about 100 yards that run roughly parallel to the shoreline. The nearest portion is about 20 feet from shore and the farthest portion is roughly 100 feet from shore. Some of the rocks are above the water at all times, but not along it's entire length, except at low tide. There are similar rock piles that originate from shore that I would consider to be jetties and thus off-limits.

I tried searching the statutes, but couldn't find where a jetty is defined. The dictionary definition is "a structure originating from shore designed to protect a shoreline, or influence tides or currents". The above example wouldn't be a jetty, because it doesn't originate from shore. From the dictionary's perspective, the example would more closely fit a "reef". I just don't want to argue that with the FWC, unless I have a definition in the statutes to back up my position.

Additionally, from what I understand, spearfishing is prohibited on all jetties (except for the exclusion for 1500 yard long jetties) whether they are accessible for fishing from or not (i.e. spearfishing is not allowed whether the jetty is a concrete slab with a bait shop and rodholders along its length, or if it's made out of broken glass with old rusted barbed wire holding it together). Is this correct?

[PatMyGreen]

FWC wil most likely fine you and tell you it up to a judge to see who is right. That being said... if it runs parallel to shore it sounds like a breakwater and not a jetty. In my official opinion they are different but the only thing I am officially is an idiot.

[SkywayGray]

Hey I couldn't give you the legal description of a jetty, but neither will the FWC. They will just ticket you. Take it from me, I have been diving the skyway since I was 12, and I can say by experience it is illegal. I have been fined there and also been charged with a 2nd degree midameanor for Diving without a dive flag. PLUS. Spearfishing within 100 feet from land, 100 yards from a public fishing pier, and 100 yards from a public beach! I know the jetty your talking about, it's the jetty on the south fishing peir road, right when you turn onto that road. I know you haven't gotten in the water there because as soon as you do you will leave. It is shallow the whole way out and doesnt contain the fish you want. Write me a P.M. and I will tell you of ALOT better spots to get sheephead. I will even take you to a couple of spots if your not scared of 3 foot Viz. This is just my 2 Pennies, but I love the skyway and wouldn't lead you wrong. I free dive there all the time. You just need to know how to be faster than the FWC,LOL. Gray

[PatMyGreen]

SG
Please clarify for me and anyone else reading this that you aren't saying you like to break the law and are advocating such behaviour in anyway. Cause thats all I come away with when I read our post! I hope its just the limitations of this medium and my undestanding and not your intent.

[Johnoly]

In Palm Beach county over here on the east coast it's illegal to spear on any Artificial reef. That means, pipes, culverts, wrecks, car hoods, ships, bridges, piers, rocks or anything dumped in the water to attract fish. It's tough over here, dang fish practically has to jump in the boat by itself to be considered legal!!

[SkywayGray]

PatMyGreen,
It is not my intent in saying that I intentionally break the law. But the combination of myself as a kid growing up here in St.Petersuburg, my incredible Love of free-diving and spearfishing, and my lack of boat. All lead me to the Skyway!!! I took and still take the consequences that are given to me for my inability to go deep all the time. Unfortunately Florida law says im not unable to do certain things. It is the same law that says if you have a dock behind your house and you want to slip in the water to shoot a fish off of that dock you are breaking the law. My opinion differs from a lot of people I am sure. I dive the Skyway and will continue to dive the Skyway and most other bridges around here. My last fine I recieved was on the day of the Spearboard Open. Spearfishing in a prohibited area. The fine is 31 dollars. Small price to pay for placing 8th in the free-dive division and the new regulator I won! All without stepping on a boat!!

[smilinmatt]

After I started this thread, I emailed the FWC asking for a definition of a jetty, and so far no answer. Kind of like the time about 20 years ago I called the Marine Patrol and asked whether when diving alone if I could harvest 6 or 24 lobster? He said he'd call me back and I'm still waiting...

I looked in the statutes (online from the FWC link) and I couldn't find a definition of a jetty. There is an area in the statutes (I don't recall where, but it related to property and not fishing) that listed a group of structures including jetties and breakwaters. So, I assume that they are legally different structures, but it's not explicitly defined anywhere that I can find.

SkywayGray, you nailed the spot I was talking about. It was nice enough to let me have 5 sheepshead from 13-18 inches on Memorial Day. I slipped in the water during about a 45 minute period when no one was fishing the area. Some rod and reel fishermen came by and I left it to them. While I believe what I did was legal (both morally and in the intent of the law), I would prefer not to have to spend a day in court proving it.

[smilinmatt]

Good news (for me :D ). FWC agrees that a jetty (as prohibited in spearfishing) needs to be affixed to land. I got my email reply today:


Comments: I would like to know what the definition of a "jetty" is in relation to spearfishing regulations. Would a "breakwater" also be banned from spearfishing. It is my understanding that a jetty is a structure with one end originating from land whereas a breakwater although serving a similar purpose is not attached to land.

My question concerns the ability to spearfish in the area around the Sunshine Skyway bridge near Tampa. There are numerous jetties and breakwaters in the area. Would it be legal to spearfish around the breakwaters (structures not attached to land)?


Dear Mr. Brueckner,

"Spearing" is defined in Florida Administrative Code as the catching or taking of fish by bow hunting, gigging, spearfishing, or by any device used to capture a fish by piercing its body.

"Spearfishing" entails that you have to be swimming at or below the surface of the water.

Make sure you obey the rules dealing with which types of species are able to be harvested by spearing as well as their size limits.

Concerning the issue of spearfishing at the Skyway Bridge:

1. Spearfishing is not lawful within 100 yards of all commercial or public fishing piers.

2. The Skyway also has a special rule per the United States Coast Guard that states that no vessel is to anchor within 100 feet of the elevated portion of the bridge.

The term "breakwater" is not defined in the Florida Statutes, but in most cases these are affixed to land and treated as jetties. Therefore, you can not spearfish within 100 feet of the submerged portion of any jetty, except that spearfishing shall be allowed along the last 500 yards of any jetty that extends more than 1500 yards from the shoreline.

If you do find a rockpile that is not affixed to land and is not within 100 yards of the Skyway fishing pier it would be permitted to spearfish on it as long as the appropriate dive flag requirements are met.

Hopefully keeping a printed out copy of the email will help persuade any FWC officers from writing a citation. I know it's a lot easier to fight getting a ticket, than it is to correct a wrongly issued ticket.

[Joboo]

Matt,

Just my 2 cents but the areas you are referring to I have used to shoot fish throughout the season and grab stone crabs in the winter for many years. I would immagine i've been in the water at the skyway between 500 and 1k times and, knock on wood, to date, have yet to be hastled by the fwc in any way. Other than a few run ins with the hp regarding entry areas, it is a good productive spot and the good thing is that even on a bad day there is allways one protected side. Granted some of these areas are shallow 4-5 foot at low tide and i have never bothered diving them, but many of the areas are 20-30 and plentiful with fish.

The actual definition the state uses to define a jetty from a breakwater to a seawall i have yet to see, but being that in my experience most statues in general are derived from common sense i cant immagine any competent officer that would write you a ticket for being there. On the entire span of the skyway, from toll both to toll both, i can think of only 1, maybe 2 jettys and both are L/U shaped and contain portions of the old 1960's iron fencing. The productive areas are the lead up to both the north and south side of the main span and a few of the areas surrounding the other 3 bridges. All of these areas are "seawall" protected by "armor rock". If you have to discuss this with any incompetent fwc officer i would suggest inquiring why they believe that "armor rock" covering a "sea wall" dictates a jetty. I think the point here is that yes, some jettys are made of armor rock, but armor rock in itself does not equal a jetty. The other no spearfishing rules for the most part do not apply. There are no "public swimming beaches" anywhere on the skyway, as long as you are 100 ft from the old skyway which is a "public fishing pier" it is legal to shoot, and as far as shooting "any portion of a bridge in which public fishing is allowed" no fishing is allowed from any of the highway parts of the bridge so that clause also does not apply.

As one of the posters mentioned above, chances are if this was ever debated the officer would simply write you the ticket and hope that you would not challange it in court. In my eyes, id hope to get the ticket, just more cash in my pocket after the civil suit. I know many people dont believe this but in my eyes people need to be reponsible for their own actions, this statement includes fwc officers that would hastle and ticket you based on ignorance of the law.

[Marcus]

I agree with Joboo, the only time I've ever been messed with is when we were under high alert and they didn't want you diving under the current skyway. I know you can't spearfish under the old bridge (fishing pier), but there are artificials that parallel the fishing pier that I've dove on without hassle. I think the FWC officer would have to be a real dick to cite you for spearfishing the armor rock. I don't think it would stick in court.

[kitefisherman]

In Palm Beach county over here on the east coast it's illegal to spear on any Artificial reef. That means, pipes, culverts, wrecks, car hoods, ships, bridges, piers, rocks or anything dumped in the water to attract fish. It's tough over here, dang fish practically has to jump in the boat by itself to be considered legal!!

What??? :confused: I know that there are certain dive boat operators that think that they own certain wrecks (and therefore they say that they are "sanctuaries" and that you should not shoot them - which is bullshit), but I've never heard that. Wrecks, culverts, etc. can be some of our most productive structure. As far as I know, you can dive them all in Palm Beach County - and we do without any interference from law enforcement. Where did you hear that?

[jfjf]

In Palm Beach County it is illegal to spear in some areas which have artificial reefs. This area is defined in the statutes, however it is probably impossible to enforce.

I found a 1992 copy of the regs. It says on it: Reg Files DNR 16N-21.1001 Palm Beach County Spearfishing. It defines a county underwater preserve area north of the Lake Worth inlet. Depth is 68 to 87 feet. Can not take any fish while spearfishing in this area.


The language used to describe the area always seemed unusual to me. The northern limit of the preserve is defined by some rocks on the beach which are refered to as "Niggerhead Rock" in the rule. Wonder if (or when) they will update the language in the rule?

You also can not spearfish at night in palm beach county.

[Joboo]

Jf,

I will be the first one to admit i know very little of your area and am not in any way familiar with the local county ordinances but have to ask if this artificial is in 68-87 feet of water would it not be more then 3 miles offshore?

I guess what im getting at is the ordinance in monroe and collier county regarding no spearfishing and or no spearfishing above long key. Point is outside of 3 miles the ordinance would no longer apply being you are in fed water.

Now i think this has been argued before, more or less concerning transporting a fed bag limit of fish into state waters, or transporting through a sanctuary without stopping, it would not suprise me in any way if an officer would attempt to cite you for violation of the ordinance even if the artificial in question was not within state waters. Seems like if this happened there would be no way out of the ticket but you would at least know the officer would have to be able to prove where exactly you shot the fish in order to have the charge stand in court. Needless to say a land based officer would not be able to and any officer that observed you surfacing with speared fish would have to defend writing a violation of a county ordinance or state statue in fed waters.

[kitefisherman]

In Palm Beach County it is illegal to spear in some areas which have artificial reefs. This area is defined in the statutes, however it is probably impossible to enforce.

I found a 1992 copy of the regs. It says on it: Reg Files DNR 16N-21.1001 Palm Beach County Spearfishing. It defines a county underwater preserve area north of the Lake Worth inlet. Depth is 68 to 87 feet. Can not take any fish while spearfishing in this area.


The language used to describe the area always seemed unusual to me. The northern limit of the preserve is defined by some rocks on the beach which are refered to as "Niggerhead Rock" in the rule. Wonder if (or when) they will update the language in the rule?

You also can not spearfish at night in palm beach county.

Thanks for the cite. The reg was moved to 62N-21.001. I looked up the reg on the state Florida Administrative Code site and it indicates that 62N-21.001 has since been repealed. See http://fac.dos.state.fl.us/faconline/chapter62.pdf.

This is a good thing as the reg not only prohibited night spearfishing and scuba spearfishing in the protected North County areas (freedive spearfishing was OK), but also commercial spearfishing and the sale of speared fish in Palm Beach County. For some reason, the acts that created the old reg still appear in the 2004 FWC codebook under "Special Acts of Local Application" which can be found through the FWC website: http://myfwc.com/codebook/2003/Codebook.pdf. I’ll send the FWC an email to inquire why this information still appears in the codebook if the reg has been repealed.

I don't know the legislative history or when the reg was repealed, but I can't recall any enforcement of the above provisions. To the best of my knowledge, recreational and commercial spearfishing is alive and well in Palm Beach County!

[Johnoly]

As far as I know, you can dive them all in Palm Beach County - and we do without any interference from law enforcement. Where did you hear that?


My Bad,,it is an agreement between WPB dive operators not to allow spearing on the wrecks and Breakers reef. Lots of WPB commerical boats just say no guns.

We try to stick to the Jupiter area, but when we get new divers we end up at the shallow 60 ft reefs in WPB.