Spare Shaft as Bang Stick?

[Steel Shootin']

In light of all the recent exitement, I'll throw this topic out, and let you guys explain to me why it's a moronic idea and won't work.

Assuming you have a spare shaft on the side of your gun, can you use it in a pinch as a bang-stick, as a secondary means of protecting yourself (with the loaded up spear as the primary means)? By screwing the powerhead onto the spare shaft with a plan of using it on that shaft, you eliminate the need to screw-it on to the loaded shaft when you need immediate protection. Furthermore, let's say it's a situation like Hector's: No time to do anything but react. You don't have time to transfer the powerhead onto your loaded spear, nor do you have time to pull the spare shaft out and load it up. Could you not fire the loaded shaft, and if you either missed, or just pissed the shark off, then defend yourself using the powerheaded spare shaft like a bang-stick? I am sure that is putting the shark closer to you then you'd like.

Here are a couple of reasons I am thinking this may not be a good plan. 1) The spare shaft is resting on a platic cockcing component on the butt of the gun, which may not hold up. If it didn't hold up, in theory the blunt end of the shaft could injur the diver, 2) If the butt held up, the recoil could revert back to the diver, causing a shoulder injury (a la FredT's crossbow scenerio), 3) Would manually "poking" the shark create enough force to push the pin up into the round?

Any thoughts?

[kabo123]

I have used the 48 biller with a spare shaft holder on the side, for holding my power head. The powerhead stays about 3" past the tip of the loaded spear, I have had to use it once on a big carolina bull.

the force of the shark comming in set the bullet off i was just keeping the gun between myself and the shark.

the idea of haveing to take off a spear tip and then screw on a power head doesnt make alot of sence to me, if you have that much time just buy a slip on powerhead ( uses your spear tip as the fireing pin).

my shaft holder was screwed into the stock of the gun not the plastic, it was very sturdy.

[junior]

I have questioned whether a powerhead could be affixed in such a way to allow it to serve as a bang stick where you can jam it againt the shark as a last resort and have the bullet fire instead of having to screw the thing onto your shaft and fire the thing.

I guess it could work, but would also worry about the shaft holder not providing enough support to keep the shaft in place.

How about drilling a long thin hole into the stock of the gun at the end furthest from the cocking mechanism, and then insert a shaft into this hole, leaving enough shaft extended beyond your normal shaft to allow for this?? In theory this shaft would not need to be a usable shaft, but something substantial enough for this purpose only.

[slipknot]

I don't know how other guns are set up,other than Billers. But I shoot a gun made by Ultimate Dive Products,now defunct, I believe Fred T is familiar with them. Anyway, on the head of the gun there is a hole undreneath the shaft hole made to accomidate a 3 or 4" pointed rod which you can put a slip on PH, basically making your gun the bangstick as long as there is no main shaft loaded. I say 3 or 4" because the guy I use to dive with in Miami had one that size on his gun. I suppose it could be as long as you wanted it,if you wanted it to extend out past the main shaft. But the way this guy's was,you could only use it without a main shaft loaded.I did'nt get the PH rod when I bought it because I did'nt PH back then, and havent since because I use a thread on PH. After reading Hectors story I might just get that rod and install it. I have a few 223 slip on PH's, and a 444 Marlin that is supposed to rock the world of any ocean predator.
Does anybody else have this kind of rod attachment ?,and has it ever been used?

[Marcus]

What's the difference between a powerhead on the end of a shaft, held in your hand, and a bangstick? Are bangsticks heavier, thus subject to less recoil?:confused:

[Steel Shootin']

I wonder if any manufacturers have ever thought of specifically designing and engineering a gun to include a bangstick.

I'd be interested in learning more about the physics of a discharging powerhead. Does it create a lot of recoil, or does the energy from the explosion move laterally and/or forward in some way?

(Don't you just know this post has Genesis finger on the "register" button. He is fighting it! Come on Karl, you can't fight it forever! :D :D)

[sbreland]

For what it's worth, I have fired powerheads mounted on pole spears, spear shafts, dedicated short sticks, you name it. The recoil issue is way over-blown. There is some minor recoil, but nothing to concern yourself about. I once shot a fish about 3 feet from me with a .357 BECO on a pole spear. The concussion feels like a thump on the chest. There is minimal noise. If you fix a dedicated powerhead shaft to your gun you might want to practice firing the powerhead. It takes a brisk shove to hit the primer hard enough, although a shark moving toward you would help with that.

[Steel Shootin']

Interesting. I'm thinking more and more that a powerhead on my spare shaft could be used in a pinch as a bang stick. This would be especially true if the primary shaft had already been deployed, as when you're stringing a freshly shot fish.

[GeauxSaints]

I tried that when I first got my .223 powerhead and stopped for three reasons...
1) When shooting downward the recoil from shooting the primary shaft combined with the weight of the powerhead caused the spare shaft/power head to slip down and out. I had this happen twice and once I was pretty close to the rock it hit and got to watch it shoot back past my face, missing my mask by a few inches. On both occasions the B&B .223's safety clip was IN.

2) After shooting a fish I typically place the bands around my arm to get the fish and string him. Doing this would place the business end of a loaded .223 zip gun pointing toward my head...or at the very least, my shoulder (how's that sound, Fin Advisor?) a prospect I'm not too happy with. Trying the powerhead attached to the shaft made me change my procedures and I had to place the gun down when grabbing and stringing a fish. The gun was heavy enough to sink but in a strong current it would drift sometimes.

3) I was concerned that as I was reloading I may inadvertanly hit my hand/wrist/arm on the end of the powerhead and shoot myself. I know that they are not likely to go off unless I really smacked it but I'm a firm believer in Murphy's laws and as soon as I think something can't/wont happen...it does.

[sbreland]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GeauxSaints
[B]I tried that when I first got my .223 powerhead and stopped for three reasons...

Good reasons. The "shoot self in head, hand, etc" reason is why I do not have my gun set up this way. In addition, I tend to lose track of anything I lay on the bottom and doing that kinda negates having the gun at hand against the sneak attack anyway.
I have thought about carrying a short pole spear, say 4 feet, with the PH mounted on it. It could then be used with the rubber sling or as a bang stick. Just one more piece of crap to keep up with, but I think it is worth a try.

One more thing: Biller makes a dedicated stainless mount to prevent the slipping problem someone mentioned. It requires drilling two holes through the wood barrel.

[Steel Shootin']

Very good points. Like I said in my original post, I knew someone would eventually tell me why it wasn't a good idea. I still see some guys put their PH on their spares, but I think your points are compelling enough to prevent me from doing it.

Now then, about that shark shield ...... :D

[100days-a-year]

Have a boy here in Jax ,Ed Almond who shot himself in the hand by shooting a lineshaft then while subduing a fish his hand came down on the PH(imagine like a Karate chop)Lotsa damage,but didn't lose use of the hand from a .38 Spcl load.A .223,357Max or .44 would have been bad.Not that a spareshaft can't be used safely as a bangstick ,but there are complications to be dealt with.

[BurlyEarl]

I shoot a Biller 48 and have had dedicated 18" shaft bang stick mounted to the side for about 8 years. It required two holes to be drilled through the wooden barrel which I've sealed with epoxy. The .357 head sticks out about 4 inches beyond the end of the gun and about 3 inches behind the tip of the spear. Odds are that I'll need it most when the spear is in an unclaimed fish dinner and Mr. Big comes by to place dibbs. I use a coil on my spear now since I've lost too many fish and spears freeshafting. I'm usually on the bottom in the process, so my gun stays about as far away as my knee. When I've used it, the recoil was not significant on my end, but the experience the poor SOB received on the other end was remarkable. I'm comfortable with the set-up and it works for me.

[inletsurf]

In my opinion, those 'slip-on' powerheads that fit right over the spear shaft and are triggered by the shaft point seems the most reasonable for emergency use. You can keep them safely loaded in your BC pocket, and if you have trouble, slip it over the shaft in seconds and either fire it or use it as a bang stick on the toothy villian. Everything else just seems to cumbersome to me, like it would take to long to put on the powerhead, load it, fire. Having a powerhead loaded on your gun as a bangstick during the whole dive just sounds risky to me. The slip-on option combines the quickness of loading, without any risk of holding the loaded sleeve in your pocket during the entire dive.

Just my thoughts.

[f94gator]

Inlet, I'd totally agree with you, but I've heard that the slip-on types sometimes don't fire. If there's a reliable one out there, point me towards it and I'll buy one!

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by inletsurf
In my opinion, those 'slip-on' powerheads that fit right over the spear shaft and are triggered by the shaft point seems the most reasonable for emergency use. You can keep them safely loaded in your BC pocket, and if you have trouble, slip it over the shaft in seconds and either fire it or use it as a bang stick on the toothy villian. Everything else just seems to cumbersome to me, like it would take to long to put on the powerhead, load it, fire. Having a powerhead loaded on your gun as a bangstick during the whole dive just sounds risky to me. The slip-on option combines the quickness of loading, without any risk of holding the loaded sleeve in your pocket during the entire dive.

Just my thoughts. I agree, but who mass produces the slip on PHs. I've heard of guys that make them themselves, and they do well. I've heard of others that don't fire all the time. Believe me, I've look into this issues, because I think it makes the most sense, too. :confused:

[inletsurf]

Good point. I guess sometimes they could misfire if the tip gets rounded enough, or if the tip is out of line with the primer. I've personally never tried it, I was thinking of buying one from that Odor guy, since he sells them for only $30 each, or even making one myself.

[f94gator]

John's got one, and that's one type we've heard has a tendency to not go off. Only $30, but I'd pay more for peace of mind.
I HAVE heard that the 357 type is better, as the 357 round has a larger primer to strike, giving you more room for error.

[Stone]

I am leaning toward the arrangment in the picture below. I believe Biller makes the attachment that screws into wooden guns for mounting a power head .

I have been carrying home-made slip-on powerheads, but some of my shark encounters have left little time to prepare. Also, if you have just shot a fish, what are you going to slip the powerhead on to?

[greyface]

Hope you have strong arms/wrists! My 48" Biller padauk with just 1 spare shaft is hard to hold at the ready. Very negatively buoyant!:)

[sbreland]

As I said earlier, I tried the arrangement shown in the Biller photo above. I like it, but having been a hunter, soldier, competitive shooter, and general nimrod all my life I feel really, really uncomfortable fooling around with my hands in front of a loaded barrel. The story of the fellow shooting his own hand is easy to understand. As spearfisherman I'm an FNG and probably always will be. Every time I shoot a fish I'm pretty revved up and very focused on the fish. I try to be careful of course, but it would be so easy to knock the safety clip out of a PH, or even easier to not notice the stop ring being turned on a Biller or a BECO.
I don't mean to be negative, I'd just hate to see one of you fine fellows totally screwed for life. If some engineer type comes up with a fool-proof PH safety arrangement I'll be the first to order one.
Two more things:
1. Hector did save himself from the shark. Great job!
2. I love powerheads. They are noisy, dirty, dangerous, and politicly incorrect. Everything a hobby needs!

[ZacWrigley]

I have used it that ways for years.....never a problem....when mr.jewfish comes smelling around, just poke him in the ass and let him bleed......

[Faust]

I saw i unique rig the other day that in a way resolved your question. Somone took the top 6 inches of so of a shaft and spot welded a inch long metal "tab" with 2 screw holes in the tab and screwed it directly to the side of the gun .So effectivly without adding another spare shaft holder and buying another shaft he made a sturdy bang stick.

[sharkbait 101]

i have used power heads for years have one onevery gun i ever owned keep it loaded in the water take it out befor getting on boat never pull safty pin out till i need it . have used it three times shit every time but stops dead in there fins 357 and 44 mags.

[Spear One]

I went out on a trip with a guy that had that exact setup pictured above with the PH fastened to the end of the gun. He accidently shot off three of his fingers with that setup. Here is what happened.

The PH was loaded and the safety was typically kept in the safe position when the gun was being used. That type of PH has a large round nut that when screwed all the way up against the breech prevented the bullet from reaching the primer of the bullet if it were accidenly impacted against something. To fire the PH you simply rotate the nut away from the breech allowing the firing pin to reach the bullet primer when impacted.

While the guy was shooting through the course of the day, the safety nut had inadvertantly rotated itself away from the safety position and had allowed enough distance between the nut and the breech for the PH to fire. He had not noticed that this was happening because the way the safety is designed it is difficult to tell it has rotated away from the breech unless you specifically look at it.

He was inserting the shaft between shots and knowing how difficult it is to lock the shaft into that trigger he had developed a tendency to jam the shaft hard against the sear to get the shaft to lock in on the first jab. When he jabbed the shaft into the trigger really hard, the side of his hand hit the top of the PH and it went off.

It blew most of three fingers clean off, the pinky and the two next to it. They were pretty much hangin there by a little skin. They rushed him to the hospital and the doctors did a great job reattaching them and he was able to continue spearfishing in about a year. He has some severe limitations in movement but at least he still has them.

I never keep a loaded PH on the end of my gun or spearshaft unless I am using it. I keep it unloaded when not in use and I load it only after I have installed it and it is ready to use. When I am finished using it, I remove the bullet and store the PH. A loaded powerhead in any situation, even with a safety in place, is an accident just waitin to happen.

LOAD IT WHEN YOU NEED IT.... UNLOAD IT WHEN YOU DON'T.

If you are that afraid of sharks etc, stay out of the water!

[Mutt]

Anyone use the slip on Power Heads on a Riffe Shaft. Or have slip on PH experience of any kind. I have heard that they are prone to misfire!

==============================================

"Murphy" Never Sleeps!

[Mutt]

Anyone have practicle experience w/ A Shark Dart? And if so, think practicle for Mr Bull?



==============================================

"Murphy" Never Takes a Nap!

[f94gator]

Spear One - good advice. It also sounds like that guy's PH had a pretty pisspoor safety. At least with a pin it's easy to tell if the safety's on or not.
In either case, I would be a bit nervous with a loaded PH on my spare shaft. With the way the gun can get knocked around when you're stringing a fish up, who knows what can happen.

[Nsearch]

What's up guys....new to this forum board, but not new to the game :D

Just wanted to introduce myself and ask someone to point me to Hector's story.

Thx

[Grande]

here ya go http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1822

[Denny]

SPEAR ONE: "If you are that afraid of sharks etc, stay out of the water!"
Thank you, Kevin. Why is everybody so damn afraid of sharks? Fear of he unknown? They are smart bullys who are a little afraid of a creature that gives off a metallic electrical impulse. Relax, guys. You are worrying wat too much. Anybody who needs an electrical shark repeller around here also needs to buy a can of my special "Lobster Grease", which attracts lobster to you like flies to shit. Only $199 per can.

[Nsearch]

Thx Grande......appreciate it.

Wow.....what a story, glad to hear that everyone made it out of there in one piece (minus the teeth ;) ) and alive. I'm surprised to read all the negative attitudes towards sharks on this board. Sharks are very important to the health of our oceans and shouldn't be killed just for the f**k of it. Understandable if they are threatening you or someone else, but to just kill one cause it's swimming by is sad and stupid.