forget the guns!

[got lungs?]

hello forum members, i am new to the forum and wanted to extend a hello to all. i was born and raised around the waters of miami and am an avid freediver and hawaiian slinger. hopefully i will have the chance to meet some of you and i look forward to being active in the forum.

namaste,
forrest

[LobsterVac]

Hey Lungs,

Have you checked out the Spiegel Grove yet. I'm going to try to next month. I've heard it is a killer spot with a wide variety of fish to spear or sling if you prefer.

[Spearchucker]

Don't get yourself arrested. The Spiegel Grove is in Pennekamp and you are not even allowed to posses a pole spear or gun there.

[got lungs?]

i dove the Grove just after it was sunk. it was breathtaking. i got lucky, it was the best day of diving i have seen this year. visibility was 200+ with not even the slightest chop. there was a little current but it was truly awesome. i don't dive pennycamp much , as spearchucker said it's protected, so we usually go outside pennycamp to spear. But i would definitely recommend it to anyone out there. the side of the ship is 50 ft from the surface so you can see it all. take the whole family out because it is a must see.

forrest

[junior]

Originally posted by LobsterVac
Hey Lungs,

Have you checked out the Spiegel Grove yet. I'm going to try to next month. I've heard it is a killer spot with a wide variety of fish to spear or sling if you prefer.

Let me know when you decide to try and spear on the grove so I can watch all the underwater photographers, sightseers, captains, divemasters and staff of every dive shop in Key Largo beat you to a pulp:D

[spearing101]

Lungs,

Welcome to the board but this board seems to be predominantly for scuba spearoos. i dont think they are too fond of us freedivers. i'll let you decide for yourself, but it seems some of the tank freaks are a bit intimidated by our freediving capabilities.

Regarding the Grove, I dove it a few months ago and a shot a nice black. I then shared its head with the marine patrol. Apparently he wanted the head to make soup.

[bluewater]

The Spiegal Grove is out side the reef line which is definetly outside of the pennekamp park. It is in the Key Largo management area which is a "protected area". As far as I know it has not been granted "sanctuary preservation area" status. I took two snappers off of it last year when I was there I only got a few dirty looks. The place was a zoo when the wife and I dove it . We were the first on it in the morning when we were doing our safty stop at about 15' some a-hole driving a double dolphin charter boat was directly over our heads churning up the water trying to manuver his boat to tie off to another boat tied to a mooring bouy. I came up and told him he was right over my wifes head and to wait till she came up to moor up. He was an ass and told me that he would just be a second till he shut it off. Two minutes later I told him I was gonna turn his motor off for him and asked him how the six or so people he was chartering would feel about that . He then got tied off and shut it down . Wifey got in the boat and we took his picture it didnt come out to well. I was gonna make him and his charter company famous but decided he was not worth the hassel. besides you cant see the name of the boat in the picture. The current was awfull that day my boat was leaving a big wake while it was moored up. I think that is because the S.G. is perpendicular to the current it blocks it off and about doubles in velocity over the wreck. Someone will get blown off of that thing sooner or later.

[junior]

Originally posted by spearing101
it seems some of the tank freaks are a bit intimidated by our freediving capabilities.


I disagree entirely. Most of the tank guys free dive a bit as well. My only problem is with people who think that one is better than the other. I guess that would be you:rolleyes:

The Spiegel Grove is within the former boundaries of the Key Largo National Marine Sanctuary which is now a part of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. However, all rules of the former Key Largo National Marine Sanctuary are still in place and one of those rules is no spearfishing. Call the Upper Keys Region of the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary at 1-305-852-7717 if you want to hear it from the horses mouth.

[spearing101]

I disagree entirely. Most of the tank guys free dive a bit as well. My only problem is with people who think that one is better than the other. I guess that would be you

Junior,

if we're talking about pure physical ability no one would argue that freedivers require it more. what do you define as "a bit"? the best spearfishermen in the world and in the us are only recognized as freedivers. before we start any heated debate i acknowledge that spearing with scuba has its risks, but there is nothing more rewarding to freedive 75 feet on your lung capacity and shoot and fight with a grouper for 2minutes and finally bring it up all in one dive. do i think one is better than the other, yes. And that is my opinion as well as the one of all recognized spearfishermen in the world. if you don't respect it - too bad!

[junior]

Originally posted by spearing101
i dont think they are too fond of us freedivers.

It appears that the problem is entirely yours:cool:

[junior]

Originally posted by spearing101
do i think one is better than the other, yes....if you don't respect it - too bad!

It is my personal policy not to respect individauls who believe they are better than others around them and then throw in their face on the internet:rolleyes:

[spearing101]

i wasn't looking for your respect.

[greyface]

Good, then shut the **** up!:rolleyes:

[richhermes]

Originally posted by spearing101
i wasn't looking for your respect.

Let's see here. 50% of your posts have been of a flame nature.

ScreenName and a few others are quite accomplished freedivers and do not hold NEAR the shitty attitude you currently possess.

Learn to get along with everyone here and you are bound to learn something.

[junior]

Originally posted by greyface
Good, then shut the **** up!:rolleyes:

Why didn't I think of that:D

[f94gator]

You know, I'm getting tired of this. I don't like making stereotypes, but this is ridiculous. Is it JUST ME, but does it seem that 90% of the holier-than-thou attitudes on this board belong to freedivers?!?
Christ, I don't care how you kill your fish. Sure, freediving is impressive, and no, I can't hold my breath worth a damn. But here's another thing, SO THE HELL WHAT?

Guys, do what floats your boat. Tank/no tank. sling/pole/gun, powerhead/no powerhead, swim trunks/banana hammock - whatever. Just check the attitude at the door. We don't need it.



note-no second thought, the banana hammock IS a no-no. :D

[Screen Name]

That spearing101 probably is.

I'm not near the idiot he seems to be either.

There are a bunch of good freedivers on this board, and I know a ton of other ones who can hang with spearing101, and they are all good guys. Mighty Mouse's team got third in the US Nationals a couple years ago, great guy. Wiley Sea- awesome guy, helped start Spearfishing magazine. Richie Zacker, GR Tarr, Wayne Butts, David Shelton, Armando Suarez, Paul Jones, Rich Taylor, Chad Carney, Sasa Bratic, Gary Sanchez, Jim, Gary and Robbie Zumwalt, Dean Young, Charlie Moore, Jose Santiero, Ed Walker, Sam Carlino, and a bunch of others range from US National Champs to just really good freedivers.

And not one of them is an idiot, all but GR Tarr and Jose use tanks as well, and I've never seen one of them act like they are cool and scuba sucks.

So, this should straighten out 3 things: One, Screen aspires to be good, but really is only an amateur freediver. Two, most people dont start out with the capacity to do breathhold diving, they work at it. And three, freedivers as a rule are not flaming idiots, even though, like scuba, freedivers have their share of them.

I gotta feeling my main man Rich, who I have a lot in common with politically and in general, is gonna be takin me to the mat when he finds out that loran book is really a Top Spots chart!:D

[Spearchucker]

FDS and Spearing 101 are both 19 and from S. Florida. Coincidence? Same person? They both obviously just do things for a reaction. I don't think you will be seeing Spearing101 too much anymore.

[f94gator]

If it's FDS, he suddenly took a grammar and punctuation lesson.

Screen, no offense to the respectable freedivers. It's always a couple of dumbasses that give everyone a bad rap. Any stereotype drawn is almost certainly unfair, but those couple of people - man, they just need to shut the hell up.

[fernandezh]

Originally posted by greyface
Good, then shut the **** up!:rolleyes:

Spearing101,
The only reason Greyface said that was that he beat me to it. Dude, we don't have anything against freedivers here. We do have something against anybody here who think they are better than anybody else. Well. . . except for me because I know I am better than everybody else :D

[richhermes]

Originally posted by Screen Name
....I gotta feeling my main man Rich, who I have a lot in common with politically and in general, is gonna be takin me to the mat when he finds out that loran book is really a Top Spots chart!:D

Damn you. I just knew you were a closet FDS fan!:D

[f94gator]

All hail Hector, loser of teefus and bitch of kingfish everywhere!!!

[greyface]

All hail to Hector! All hail to Hector!:D The crazy bitch magnet, that he is!:D

[Marcus]

There are a bunch of good freedivers on this board, and I know a ton of other ones who can hang with spearing101, and they are all good guys. Mighty Mouse's team got third in the US Nationals a couple years ago, great guy. Wiley Sea- awesome guy, helped start Spearfishing magazine. Richie Zacker, GR Tarr, Wayne Butts, David Shelton, Armando Suarez, Paul Jones, Rich Taylor, Chad Carney, Sasa Bratic, Gary Sanchez, Jim, Gary and Robbie Zumwalt, Dean Young, Charlie Moore, Jose Santiero, Ed Walker, Sam Carlino, and a bunch of others range from US National Champs to just really good freedivers.
And not one of them is an idiot, all but GR Tarr and Jose use tanks as well, and I've never seen one of them act like they are cool and scuba sucks.


YEA! What he said!:mad:

[Rolo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Screen Name
[B]

There are a bunch of good freedivers on this board, and I know a ton of other ones who can hang with spearing101, and they are all good guys. Mighty Mouse's team got third in the US Nationals a couple years ago, great guy. Wiley Sea- awesome guy, helped start Spearfishing magazine. Richie Zacker, GR Tarr, Wayne Butts, David Shelton, Armando Suarez, Paul Jones, Rich Taylor, Chad Carney, Sasa Bratic, Gary Sanchez, Jim, Gary and Robbie Zumwalt, Dean Young, Charlie Moore, Jose Santiero, Ed Walker, Sam Carlino, and a bunch of others range from US National Champs to just really good freedivers.

Those are some very accomplished divers you listed. Although I saw you left out Miguel Guinovart. As I'm sure you know, he has won the last three Florida Freediving Competitions in Bayport all of which included the divers you mentioned above. What is you opinion of him and will he be competing in any local tournaments in the future?

[Spearchucker]

I don't think Screen intentionally left anyone out. The list of people he wrote is comprised of people in the Tampa Bay area, not worldwide.

[Rolo]

You may be right. Although several of those guys are from the East Coast (Santiero, Palan). Guinovart is out of Miami, but usually participates in all tourneys on the west side of the state. He probably just listed the guys he's familiar with.

[Screen Name]

and that are real good guys.

Miguel Guinovart, as far as I know, is one of the best freedivers in the US and is world class. The other guys on his team must be awesome too because they beat some stiff competition at the state tournament.

I dont know what kind of guy he is, maybe RJ can tell us. I did observe some "not so gracious" behavior concerning Scott Turgeon who won the 2002 Nationals in Tarpon, but I do not know the background to it.

[Rolo]

Screen,

Cool. I figured that was the case. I was just curious, because your list was quite extensive and very impressive. I was just suprised that perhaps you were not aware of him. He may be the best in the state. It's quite an achievement to consistently beat some of the top notch divers in their own neck of the woods.

I personally don't know Miguel, but we share mutual friends and aquaintaces. It will be interesting to see how he and his team make out at Nationals in August.

Thanks!

[got lungs?]

Wow! i've been out of town for a week and things take a u turn, what started as a "hello to all" resulted in a little quarrel. you gotta love these message boards!

here's my two cents. ......yes i am an avid freediver and don't use a gun, but not for a second do I not share EQUAL respect for all spearfisherman. I know that it takes MORE courage for a guy from Indiana ,with a fear of breathholding , to get in the water and shoot a fish with a tank than it does for me to get in the water and freedive. I don't care if he uses a tank or not. It is all relevant, Is he not pushing himself and getting the same rush that i get when i achieve a personal freediving best? Of course he is! That's why i joined this board, to be around people that strive to make themselves and those around them better at spearfishing no matter what the form..

now before you guys rip me for having..... (tanks suck.......slings rule) understand that for me tanks and guns do not give me the rush or satisfaction that freediving brings to me. I feel freediving should be a goal for all spearfisherman. i don't think people should stick with tanks and guns there entire life. why? because the best hunters in the world are freedivers and isn't that what we want, to become better hunters. there is no reason that someone cannot become a better freediver with practice and eventually give up tank hunting all together. i have helped many friends become better freedivers and give up tanks and guns, and they all think it is the best thing they ever did. what they once thought was impossible for themselves has become something achievable. ask any of them and they will tell you they now get more fish than they did when they used tanks and they have more fun doing it. so if anyone ever wants to give hawaiin slingin a try i'd be more than happy to let you join along. :)

[rigdvr]

jezus h. christ....spearing101 must be an idiot. That is coming from another freediver/scuba diver(in that order). I felt the same vibe as did the rest of you guys from his post. Thanks those of you who stepped in for the rest of us. As for Scott T....well he has a bad rap in the freediving community as well. Its a shame we are judged as a group and yet we let morons speak for us:rolleyes:

To those that think tanks have no place in spearing...I challenge you to come dive the oil rigs once. On an typical trip we go about 75-90 miles out and dive rigs in 80-1500' of water. Some days the Mississippi river discharge leaves a murk layer on the surface(I have been out where this layer is 80' deep) in which you can't see the inside of your lens. Couple that with the raging river current and it is impossible to freedive on some days and 80 miles is a long way to go to find out! I guess what Im trying to say is "to each their own" and never forget...
opinions are like assholes; we all have one and most of them stink!

[greyface]

got lungs - I hope you continue to find the rush & satisfaction you crave using only your lungs and a spear. Mo powa to ya. Your opinion that the best hunters in the world are freedivers, is just that, an opinion . My heros are right here, on this board. None are freedivers, exclusively. I hope you never get wrapped, or entangled, and find yourself wishing you had...just one more breath...safe hunting, got lungs.

[got lungs?]

afterthought/ clarification:

i didn't realize how many non miami/keys divers post on this board. so to you guys/ gals my apologies. my faullt for assuming most of you were from here. my thoughts on spearing were aimed at this Miami group. For you non miamians i completely understand that you have no other choice than to use tanks to spear. i know the conditions you all dive in and i give you some serious credit! you oil rig guys and deep divers are nuts! it goes to show how addicting this crazy sport is, we are willing to venture to the wildest places and put ourselves in dangerous conditions to spear fish.

Now for my " tanks suck" attitude, it is aimed at the miami/ keys spearers, we are lucky enough to have ideal conditions year round with every possible level of spearing available. You can spear snapper in 10 ft of water or venture to 75 ft wrecks with huge bottom fish. Or you can venture to the bluewater and slam some wahoo or billfish. So there is no excuse when someone is not willing to try and build some freediving skill and shoot some fish in these ideal conditions. for those of you in miami who use tanks year after year ( unless you have no legs) you are pansies for at least not trying to spear without a tank. i'm sure i will be fed to the vultures after that one. :) I wish we would adopt the laws of our neighbor country 50 miles east. The bahamas doesn't allow guns or tanks and i wish we didn't either. Or if we just banned tanks and guns from depths of 0-100 ft imagine the difference it would make. I know the commercial industry puts huge weight on our marine fisheries but i think conditions for spearing would still improve drastically if we made some changes. before you west coasters bash me remember i am talking about the miami/ keys area only. and also, my offer still stands for any of you tankers in miami that are willing to try w/o a tank, you would be welcome to join us!! goal: change one diver at a time!!!!!

[Spearchucker]

Most times, I don't even bother until we are well past 75'.

[f94gator]

Or if we just banned tanks and guns from depths of 0-100 ft imagine the difference it would make.

I disagree. This suggests that tanks and guns have a tremendous impact on the fish population. Compared to the commercial industry, it ain't a drop in the bucket.
But I'm curious, in your previous post you talk of people who switched to freediving who are now spearing more than they ever did before. If that's true, then perhaps freediving should be banned as well? Or are tanks more of a hindrance than a help?


I don't know the Miami area well at all. If nice, shootable fish were in fairly shallow depths in my area, I'd guess that I probably would try freediving a bit more. But around here - let's just say I want to come up with something more substantial than a 12" hog.

[fishhunta]

i do enjoy freediving for most of my reef fish, but there is definately a place for scuba too. if i go out to spearfish, usually i freedive, but i scuba dive for a living. if im down there and see a fish, theres no way im not gonna shoot it. also, i enjoy scuba spearin on deep wrecks(180+) which can't be done without tanks. i consider myself a good freediver and used to hold the attitude that it made me better than bubblers, but even ive learned that other places and strategies require other methods. i couldn't understand why noone on the left coast freedove, but last jr2 trip, fds, bfsc, and i jumped in on some 60 ft stuff. it sucked, i couldn't see shit, but bfsc put on a tank and got i think 14 hogs in 45 min. if i lived on the gulf, i'd never freedive either.
and as for the bahamas, they don't have the populations of fish that they do because you cant use guns or tanks, they simply have much, much greater sq miles of habitat. we here only have a few mile from shore x the length of our shoreline. they have thousands and thousands of sq miles of reef. lord knows the bahamian govt is not conservation minded, they just don't want YOU getting their fish, they still allow fish trapping for locals.....
just my $.02

[Screen Name]

Good Job and right on the mark Fishunta.

We do freedive on the West coast, but the vis sometimes does not permit it.