What is Technical Spearfishing?

[100days-a-year]

Is there a general area of agreement as to what would constitute a "technical dive" as related to spearfishing.Would it be dependent solely on depth?Or more on planning staged decompression on a dive.Also what about penetrating wrecks,at what distance inside?Or for lesser penetrations what depth?I bounce pretty deep with less than 10 min deco normally but don't consider 150' "technical"Even 180' is done here on AL80s by quite a few commercial divers.Where do you draw the line.

[kitefisherman]

My understanding is that anything deeper than 130 FSW is considered a technical dive. I see you point as spearfishermen usually follow a bounce profile in order to avoid lengthy decompression stops and the need for bulky equipment. However, spearfisherman also probably more than offset this simplification with multi tasking and the addition of large wild fish into the equation. I don't think a lot of spearfishing is done during wreck penetrations because of the possibility that a large fish struggling could easily silt out the area and avenue of escape.

[hardcore]

I believe that tec diving is defined as any type of diving in an overhead environment. This overhead could be caused by a deco stop or any thing else that doesn't allow for a direct ascent to the surface. But I'm not saying bounse diving to 180' is not technical as long as you avoid deco, Thats just something a cave diver told me.

[Mulloway]

its not the depth that determined the technicality of the dive, its a technical dive when you are not able to make a safe direct accend to the surface. bouncing to 180 and doing the deco shown on the computer is not technical as well, because that is an unplanned deco which is uncalculated risk.

[SpearMax]

Well, here is another definition straight from the NOAA Diving Manual Fourth Edition:

A "technical dive" is an untethered dive that involves a change of breathing mix during the dive (or a dive with a rebreather, which has been called technical diving in Great Britain for half a century).

[Megabeast]

So therefore technical diving requires 2 different air sources with 2 different mixes?

[dagodiver]

So therefore technical diving requires 2 different air sources with 2 different mixes?


I am just now getting the hang of regular spearfishing but I would say that tech. spearfishing would be when a direct ascent to the surface is not possible for reasons like a deco obligation. There are other reason but they do not apply to OW spearing. Add to this the multi gas situation to make your deco time alittle more tolerable and for backup first stages and I think you have "tech" spearing.
YMMV.


Dago.

[Tech EDU]

This is a post for: What is Technical Spearfishing?

To say that bounce diving to 180 ft on air is not technical is similar to saying that driving at 200 miles an hour is not racing speed and therefore safe because you're only doing it for 8 to 10 minutes. Let's review this. Why do tech divers believe in safety redundancy especially for dives beyond 130 feet?

By the way for the record: Offically, Sport diving is limited to max depth of 130ft and no overhead environment or decompression diving. Any diving beyond this limit is Technical diving. Commercial Diving is understood to be surface support based primarily.

"Tech" Spearfishing -less we forget- also alludes to one's ability to deal with major task loading under unfavorable conditions.

Still if we look at the physiological facts of diving at 180 feet, the navy test indicated a loss of 30% of one's ability to handle task loading at 100 ft due to nitrogen narcossis- even if the diver is unaware of that fact-. That is at 100 feet what do you think it will be at 180feet? Almost twice the depth a-n-d 60% more nitrogen!

And how about the direct correlation between the speed of descend and hard work swimming against the current to get to "that" wreck-in what we call a 'smart bomb drop'- and a Major CO2 hit leading to major narcosis and possible O2 Toxicity in what is called a synergistic relationship.
In plain language this means this: You 're at 180 ft deep and you cannot get enough air into youre lungs. No matter what you do, it is almost as if you are overbreathing your regulator. Meanwhile you have a major case of narcosis.This is the synopsis of a Co2 hit bringing on narcosis. And in that situation your air consumption rate is astronomical and things can get worse from there very quickly.

And let's not forget the fact that we breathe 6.45 times as much air at 180 feet than at the surface or 1 athmosphere. Let's say you breath normally 25 psi per minute at one athmosphere on an Aluminium 80. That's 161 psi per minute at 180feet. you would use 1610 psi in 10 minutes at that depth. And when the mind is stressed:ie when your in trouble, I have seen SAC or Surface Air Consumption rates go from 14 PSI @1 ATA per minute to 40 PSI@1ATA per minute rapidly in less that 2 minutes in certain conditions translating into 258 PSI per minute @ 180 feet. How much air did you say you had?

Spearfishing Bounce SCUBA diving can be very dangerous because it is based on the "Perfect Dive Syndrome" Most people who do this type of diving have not seen the consequences or complications arising from " What if Scenarios Gone Wrong" with a phylosophical point of view that is limited to their own diving experiences and of those immidiately around them. The belief here is that they have dove this way forever and nothing major has ever happen to them or their friends. So therefore why change a method with a seemingly safe record?

However if you had access to all case histories and records world wide, one would see patterns of divers diving beyond their training levels as being one of the major killers of divers world wide. And that is beside the fact that bounce SCUBA Diving in and of itself is dangerous. Ask a chamber doctor. He'll tell you.

And most of you must know why a breath hold diver can do bounce diving while a diver on SCUBA must not?

If you do bounce SCUBA diving beyond 130 feet get the education. Many people think it is about ego. "Hey I've dove like this for 15 years and nothing's ever happen to me. I don't need this." And if you are one of those who think like this I invite you to get certified in Tech.There are plenty of good instructors and tech shops around you.

By the way, just like sports divers, Tech divers and Tech instructors do die doing tech diving and if they die knowing what they know, what makes you think you'll do any better in these extreme conditions, that is, knowing what you know?

Safety First in Diving Always.
Tech EDU

[SpearMax]

"Tech" Spearfishing -less we forget- also alludes to one's ability to deal with major task loading under unfavorable conditions.

Tech EDU

I agree with your points, especially this one above. :stupid: I shot a 42 pound cobia on a deep wreck this past weekend that wrapped around and caused some serious task loading on me with subduing him, stringing him and recovering my speargun. All while my air was being exhausted quickly. Depth changes everything! I pulled it off, but the experience reinforces the danger of technical spearfishing. :eek:

[dagodiver]

This is a post for: What is Technical Spearfishing?

Still if we look at the physiological facts of diving at 180 feet, the navy test indicated a loss of 30% of one's ability to handle task loading at 100 ft due to nitrogen narcossis- even if the diver is unaware of that fact-. That is at 100 feet what do you think it will be at 180feet? Almost twice the depth a-n-d twice the nitrogen!

This is what the Helium is for...and it does a great job.


And how about the direct correlation between the speed of descend and hard work swimming against the current to get to "that" wreck-in what we call a 'smart bomb drop'- and a Major CO2 hit leading to major narcosis and possible O2 Toxicity in what is called a synergistic relationship.
In plain language this means this: You 're at 180 ft deep and you cannot get enough air into youre lungs. No matter what you do, it is almost as if you are overbreathing your regulator. Meanwhile you have a major case of narcosis.This is the synopsis of a Co2 hit bringing on narcosis. And in that situation your air consumption rate is astronomical and things can get worse from there very quickly.


Safety First in Diving Always.
Tech EDU

This part of the dive is the most fun and should be the most relaxing.
A properly done smart bomb should not include swimming against the current.

Also who is "we".?

It should be just getting to your proper depth and gliding into the wreck. I have done alot of smart bombs in the 250-350fsw range and find them to be most relaxing. The boat captain is responsible for this type of diving to work in your favor.
I always dive on Helium for anything past recreational diving and while this brings other concerns it relieves the narcosis and that in my book is a good thing.

YMMV.


Dago.

[Chad Carney]

There are certainly going to be differences in opinions about what is, and what is not technical spearfishing. I would have to agree with most of the ones above. IMO, here's a couple more.

A computer nitrox diver spearing bottom fish on the Middle Grounds Wreck, on his 4th no-deco dive of the day from 110' to 130'.

A rig shooter bouncing his first dive of the day to 180' on air, with a 80 aluminum tank, only one second stage regulator and a SOS deco-meter.

I don't think it's the gear or the planning, or the lack of either, that makes a spearing dive technical. Spearfishing is not predictable. It's often not arduous when done right, but could become extremely taxing in just a blink.

In the first example above, it might well be the first time the MG diver makes a 4th repetitive dive at those depths. He might shoot his personal best gag or snapper, and the excitement and a possible rocked up fish might get him in big trouble. In the second example the rig diver is likely an old timer, and whatever he shoots will probably not give him any undue stress, even though he is obviously ill-equipped and may be under-trained. Experience can be a great teacher!

Decompression may not be planned in the dives above, but could very likely occur. Other wreck, rig and spearing related complications could also make these dives much more than recreational. If a spearfishing dive could easily go beyond recreational limits... I would call it technical spearfishing.

Obtain proper gear and training for tech spearfishing dives, and then take small steps. Build a pyramid of experience not a tower.

Chad Carney
TDI Instructor 250

Tech EDU, welcome to Spearboard! (FYI 198' is only 7 ATM, not 8. Also there is only about 60% more partial pressure of nitrogen at 180' than there is at 100'.)

[100days-a-year]

WOB and dead air space at depth also increase.This adds more C02 into the mix.Hard work(such as subduing big fish)also.Cold water can add C02 due to constriction via wetsuit.
Adding lots of crap to keep track of increases task loading.
As Chad mentioned experience can overcome a lot of obstacles.I've seen guys who dive commercially a lot shoot 7 15#+fish freeshaft at 180',stone all,string them and get on the way back up in time to hang less than 10 minutes.While diving an AL80 with a harness,1 reg,an EDGE and shooting a JBL 48" single band pipegun rebuilt with shower rod.For most divers any 1 of those dives would be technical.

[Megabeast]

100days: It sounds to me like you are blurring 'technical diving with proper gear/training'/'dangerous diving with insufficient junk/training'. I suppose alot of the old timers think its really cool how close to death they can push it with their 1976 computers/regulators/mayport tables etc. There isn't really anything technical about it, in fact alot of those guys have the forementioned "that's a bunch of crap/I don't need that" attitude about proper training/gear.

[100days-a-year]

The line is blurry as to what's proper.
GUE type guys would rather not dive than have an END over 100' and carry more shit than my BC could float.I've also seen and you know of some highly trained divers who couldn't shoot flounder in 60' much less a 40# gag at depth.Not that I advocate no training.In fact it saves more lives than any other piece of equipment.But all the training in the world is wasted on a cone.

As for gear, I'd line up any 3 regulars wearing their junk outta Jax against any 3 other divers wearing whatever they want here any time.And in 10 yrs time that latest ,greatest gear will be just about as antiquated.

[phlipper]

i think if u look at the hole man vs fish thing the odds start favoring fish at around 200 feet. tech spearing is sposed ta allow divers to shift those odds back to the divers favor if the diver is willing to do so. It ain't cheap and it ain't for everyone and sometimes people who shouldn't otta be doin it take a short cut. that's usually when things get spensive.

[dagodiver]

Damn now even the good threads that are actually about spearing and diving turn into a pissing contest....... :(



Dago.

[riplipper]

The orignal question....is open to lots of interpretation...
I would say recreational diving/spearing would include diving/spearing to 130 with no or minimal deco time....and I think the word "recreational" is the key...
This diving is done by minimally trained and minimally experienced divers every day so I would not include it in technical....
Any dive requiring "advanced" planning , multiple deco stops, or mixed gas would be technical weather your spearing or not....all dives should be planned but this requires planning beyond the computer...
Anyone going to 180 with an aluminum 80 is very experienced and I hope knows their limits....I would say that fits the technical window..
As far as gear goes....the best gear in untrained hands can be dangerous...
Knowing your gear...no matter how old it is...is better than not knowing how to use the newest and best....
thats my .02...and I am just happy to be a very experienced recreational diver. I know my limits and happy to stay there....

[Megabeast]

The line is blurry as to what's proper.
GUE type guys would rather not dive than have an END over 100' and carry more shit than my BC could float.I've also seen and you know of some highly trained divers who couldn't shoot flounder in 60' much less a 40# gag at depth.Not that I advocate no training.In fact it saves more lives than any other piece of equipment.But all the training in the world is wasted on a cone.

As for gear, I'd line up any 3 regulars wearing their junk outta Jax against any 3 other divers wearing whatever they want here any time.And in 10 yrs time that latest ,greatest gear will be just about as antiquated.

This is all very true.

Dago: I wasn't trying to start any kind of pissing match, I promise. 100days and I know each other and alot of the same people.

The reason I made the comment I did is because alot of guys I know do very advanced/slightly technical diving and won't take any further steps up the training ladder. It's not that they can't do the classes, they just won't. They percieve it as a bad value and a waste of time(give me time, I'll change that). Alot of these guys are people I call 'friends' and I genuinely care if they come back or not (alive). I've taken apart some regulators from this crowd that would make you say :eek: I've got pics if anyone wants to see (had to take digital photos right away, alot of the parts crumbled in my hands when I removed them).

I really respect and enjoy the company of this group of guys, I wish they'd dive safer though (and service their regs annually, and care about the condition of their tanks, internally and externally) I just want to see 'em come home safe... with overflowing coolers of course! :thumps:

[100days-a-year]

No pissin'Dago.Tommy and I are friends.Just hashing out what constitutes tech.
For me it has more to do with difficulty and required protocols.I was giving the examples to illustrate that opinions vary as to what threshold the word really applies.I don't consider 150' to 180' in Fla to be very technical as it's done routinely with unsophisticated gear and training.Past those depths staged deco and mixed gas are required not only to combat narcosis but also oxtox.Training is also more complicated as you have multiple gasses to manage as well as redundant gear to carry.

Now can someone diving doubles of 30/30 and carrying stages,wearing a drysuit and a canister light diving next to a guy diving a jacked up 120 doing the same dive profile to 140' can call it a "tech"dive based on gear choice?
Also the whole computer question was addressed earlier,when does unplanned deco become planned?
I "plan" on doing deco from dive 1 onward if in depths over 120'Because I don't have a paper copy is the dive less "tech"?
What if both computers are VR3 C3s?Would altering the mix or adding stages make it so even if no preplanned dive table was used?Some of the definitions are more regional or prejudicial than operative definitions.