Riffe Metal Tech 5 & Parachute-Float Combo for roller coaster fishes

[IyaDiver]

Gentlemen,

My toys have just arrived. As promised to Captain Hector
and some other members, here is what I have. I hope it all
worked as plan. Unless I try it, I will never know where
possible fault will be.


DESIGN MISSION :
To land tough and deep sounding fishes on scuba in
water deeper than 120 feet. Have lost a very nice gun
because of a big tuna, so came this parachute float combo
idea. I Initialy wanted a auto-deploy float and a separate
parachute ( sea-anchor ) in front of it, but ended up
Mr. Carter the float designer made me a combo unit.
Thanks to him.

DESIGN CONSIDERATION :
I wanted a 20 liter float at 120 feet saltwater and only
auto inflate when a fish pull hard enough, so I can swim
underwater with it with less drag. The only way possible
is to use C02. Due to the targetted fishes being anywhere
from 100-160 feet deep, the float must have immense C02
capacity to be able to be at least 70% inflated at 120 feet.
This float if were to be inflated at the surface, will need no
more than 45 gram C02. Mine comes with twin C02 activator
and will be equiped with 2 x 68 gram cartridges. It comes with
over pressure valve and an oral inflator.

The shape of the float is like a parachute, I am hoping to
get worthy water drag resistance from its shape, to add
to the existing lifting power.

I still need a reel on the gun. The idea is to add another
2 x 7 liter float if the parachute-float combo could not
handle the fish. The extra 2 x 7 liter floats will be tied to
the gun butt. Since there is 150 feet of line on my reel,
the gun can be floated up and the 2 x 7 liters C02 powered
utility float can inflate itself to the fullest on the surface.
I and my friends have tested the 2 x 7 liter floats to be very
effective but the gun must be sent out to the surface and
thus a reel is a must. The rest of extra drag comes from us
the hunter. Finning till kingdom comes is about 10 kg of lift,
minimal. The best is still holing on to a good rock, if there is
any...:rolleyes:

Here is how I intend to rig it while diving.

[IyaDiver]

Since I usually hover mid water, the float dangling down like
that is not a problem. Only in certain area where current is
strong I got to hang on to a rock, those parachute webbings
can be a problem....:confused:.

The black cloth that wrapped the float is velcro fastened.
It is from my Riffe utility float, it is a float holder.
I tested/simulated today a few times : it will release nicely
when pulled hard and fast enough........no problem.

The float holder is tied to a 1000# Kevlar of no longer than 25cm.
The wrapped float will dangle only that much.

[Kasshia]

Check out the float/parachute rig that Jack Prodanovich designed and built for his Tuna Gun. It may give you some ideas.
http://rocknfish.com/Jack%27s_Tuna_Gun.html

[IyaDiver]

Now, let say a fish pull the float. The float holder will open up and
the float will be pulled by the fish because its clip is tied to the
reel line. Please note that the reel line can not go thru the
gun line anchor loop like normal set up, the parachute-float clip
can't go thru.

Hidden and attached to the 1000# Kevlar that secured the
float holder to the gun butt, is another 1000# Kevlar line of
about 1 meter long. This line is connected to the pull cord of the
C02 activator but with an intermediate low poundage breaking
line. Today I tested using dental floss and it managed to "fire"
the C02 puncture lever but there was no cylinder on the
activator, too expensive to test when there is no fish.
I think a 20 pound test fishing line is a good line to use to
activate the C02 and will break easy when the float is actually
pulled by a fish. Any line much stronger used will damage the
C02 activator.

[IyaDiver]

Thanks Kasshia,

I seen that Jack parachute. He has a float/buoy on the surface
as the leverage and sea anchor as main drag. I can't scuba with
that. I have the Riffe float but in many places I can't use them,
unless zero current. I tested a great deal. I like the freedom of
having no line from the surface to me underwater.


So back to the float story :

When a fish pulled the float about a total of 1.5 meters away
from the pistol grip, the C02 activator will be pulled and 2 x 68
gram of Leland cartridge will inflate the float to maximum or
depending on depth. By the time inflation take place, the float
will then look and be like a parachute shape.:D

By this time I will have to judge, if the fish can be handled by the
single parachute-float or not. If I have doubt, I will fire another
two of my 7 liter Riffe utility C02 floats ( not in photo ) and must
send the gun as shallow as the reel line allows.

In the mean time I kick and fin like crazy holding the reel line to
reduce line loss to fish going downwards and thus gain extra
line length for my 2 x 7 liter Riffe float to make it to the surface.

[IyaDiver]

C02 activator close up

[IyaDiver]

Finally, the C02 will inflate the parachute-float combo like photo
below.

However, I still have some worries.
Will it be better to add extra length ( say 1 meter ) of line to the
parachute-float clip before it is being attached to the reel
line ? I am afraid the float will get entangled with the reel
line and will only provide lift effect and not much of water drag
resistance as intended. Must test to know...:rolleyes:

[IyaDiver]

This is the float close up.

The material is 420 Denier, better than most freediver float
which is only 210 denier. As far as how tough it will stand
abused on to rocks or by the speeding fishes..............
......Coming Soon !!!

[jeffe]

Great article, IYA.
Your descriptions and photos are fantastic !
This is a well thought out project.
I am looking forward to reading more from you on the actual "in the field" use of it.

[fernandezh]

Iya,
Wow, that all looks a little complicated but proboly absolutely necessary to spear the monsters that you deal with out there. Great photos and descriptions, good luck! I am impressed by the engineering that went behind the parachute float that provides drag and lift at the same time.

Hector

[esmiami]

Hey, you stole my idea. I posted it on 4-24-03 under the thread "Drag Race Spearfishing". I don't mind that you're copying my idea, but taking credit for it? Man, that's really ****ing tacky.

Here was my post.

"I've been working on this for a while. A sailboat snap shackle is used for the line release. A 68gm Leland CO2 cartridge is used for inflation (20 lbs lift at 100 ft.), I might use 2 cartridges. A Halkey Roberts breakaway inflator mechanism is used. Carter liftbags is going to custom make me a combination liftbag/drogue chute. It is a square pillow bag with lanyards at the 4 corners and an area in the center that is heat sealed to form a square doughnut. It will fit into a 3” PVC tube mounted on the side of a Riffe gun with an ice pick tip.
You shoot the fish, if it’s small enough to deal with, you deal with it, if it’s too big to deal with, you pull on the snap shackle and it releases the bag. I have tested it on dry land with a regular self inflating Carter bag, seems to work so far. Should have it in the water soon."



Originally posted by IyaDiver
Gentlemen,

My toys have just arrived. As promised to Captain Hector
and some other members, here is what I have. I hope it all
worked as plan. Unless I try it, I will never know where
possible fault will be.


DESIGN MISSION :
To land tough and deep sounding fishes on scuba in
water deeper than 120 feet. Have lost a very nice gun
because of a big tuna, so came this parachute float combo
idea. I Initialy wanted a auto-deploy float and a separate
parachute ( sea-anchor ) in front of it, but ended up
Mr. Carter the float designer made me a combo unit.
Thanks to him.

DESIGN CONSIDERATION :
I wanted a 20 liter float at 120 feet saltwater and only
auto inflate when a fish pull hard enough, so I can swim
underwater with it with less drag. The only way possible
is to use C02. Due to the targetted fishes being anywhere
from 100-160 feet deep, the float must have immense C02
capacity to be able to be at least 70% inflated at 120 feet.
This float if were to be inflated at the surface, will need no
more than 45 gram C02. Mine comes with twin C02 activator
and will be equiped with 2 x 68 gram cartridges. It comes with
over pressure valve and an oral inflator.

The shape of the float is like a parachute, I am hoping to
get worthy water drag resistance from its shape, to add
to the existing lifting power.

I still need a reel on the gun. The idea is to add another
2 x 7 liter float if the parachute-float combo could not
handle the fish. The extra 2 x 7 liter floats will be tied to
the gun butt. Since there is 150 feet of line on my reel,
the gun can be floated up and the 2 x 7 liters C02 powered
utility float can inflate itself to the fullest on the surface.
I and my friends have tested the 2 x 7 liter floats to be very
effective but the gun must be sent out to the surface and
thus a reel is a must. The rest of extra drag comes from us
the hunter. Finning till kingdom comes is about 10 kg of lift,
minimal. The best is still holing on to a good rock, if there is
any...:rolleyes:

Here is how I intend to rig it while diving.

[kitefisherman]

Ingenius ideas Iya. Maybe I didn't read closely enough, but is these any chance that you will be pulled to the surface at an unsafe ascent rate when the float inflates? You will still be holding onto the gun throgh the entire fight? Is there anything that you can do to minimize the potential for getting entangled with the setup?

Just some things that occurred to me. Hope the testing goes well.

[KJNDIVER]

ESMIAMI,

I didnt go back and check, but if I remember right, IYA responded to that post saying that it would be a good idea for what he does. And I can remember him talking about this a few times before he made this post. So get your panties out a wad and give the man some props as he followed through on his idea, can you say the same?

[esmiami]

You say "he followed through on his idea". Only problem is, it isn't HIS idea he followed through on, it was MY idea which he presented as HIS idea. I don't mind someone copying what I came up with at all, but to present it as "their idea", shit, what a ****ing asshole.


Originally posted by KJNDIVER
ESMIAMI,

I didnt go back and check, but if I remember right, IYA responded to that post saying that it would be a good idea for what he does. And I can remember him talking about this a few times before he made this post. So get your panties out a wad and give the man some props as he followed through on his idea, can you say the same?

[kitefisherman]

Let’s examine the evidence:

1. At no time has Iya claimed that the float/chute idea was his alone or that he was the first. He was just being kind enough to share the progress that he has made.

2. Junior and Iya were brainstorming the idea before esmiami posted his idea. Let’s examine the sequence of events:

A. At 10:59 PM on 4/23/2003 under the thread “International Report - Indonesia - West Java”, Junior posted the idea of using a chute to help slow down a large pelagics http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1936&highlight=drag+race

B. At 10:28 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing”, Junior elaborated on the same idea in a new thread that he created. http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

C. At 10:34 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “International Report - Indonesia - West Java”, Iya responded: “ Aside from the chute, I must custom order a C02 inflated float to compliment the chute. It will make a good combination. Let me do some deep thingking.” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1936&highlight=drag+race

D. At 11:30 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing”, Iya elaborates: “ If I do that parachute thing, I will use a breakaway and the C02 underwater float or else I will loose the fish. I am still looking for a manufacturer that can build me a 15 liter float CO2 powered and can be pumped to 75 psi. With 75psi or 5 ATM, this guarantee the float will maintain its volume at 140 feet (4.6ATM). Since flotation quality comes from total air volume, I need to keep the float as fat as possible even in the deep.” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

E. At 2:34 PM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing” - and over three hours later - esmiami finally chimes in: “I've been working on this for a while . . .” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

3. Maybe esmiami did think of it first, but it is clear that Iya didn’t get the idea from esmiami. If anyone could claim to have inspired Iya it would have to be Junior.

4. Iya has a long history on this board of demonstrating great innovation and insight in meeting the unique challenges that confront him in the area that he spears. I doubt that he needs to steal any ideas from anyone. If Iya got that much out of esmiami's short post, then esmiami must write in some sort of zip compressed language.

Get your facts straight before suggesting that someone is a plagiarist or calling them a “****ing asshole.”

[junior]

Originally posted by kitefisherman
Get your facts straight before suggesting that someone is a plagiarist or calling them a “****ing asshole.”


What he said...and just relax esmiami. I'm sure if you are such a freakin genius, then more intriguing ideas should be flowing from that mush between your ears any day now:D

[esmiami]

The idea he got from me was combining the bag and the float into one unit, having Carter make it for him, and having 2-68 gram cartridges which is pretty much exactly what he did.

If you look at
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7206&perpage=15&display=&pagenumber=2
You'll find a post from February 7, 2003 about the system I've been working on. Here's what I said.

"I'm also working on a breakaway system for one of my guns. It has a sea-anchor and auto inflating bag in a 3" PVC tube with a rip cord release. Almost finished making it, might get to test it this weekend. In theory, I shoot a fish, if it's too big to handle, I pull the rip cord, the line, sea anchor and bag deploy and I watch the fish go to the surface. I get to take my sweet time ascending without having to entertain the sharks. I plan to use it only on deeper dives and bigger fish. If I don’t pull the rip cord, it works just like a regular gun."

Again, I don't give a shit if someone else copies what I've come up with, just don't take credit for it.


Originally posted by kitefisherman
Let’s examine the evidence:

1. At no time has Iya claimed that the float/chute idea was his alone or that he was the first. He was just being kind enough to share the progress that he has made.

2. Junior and Iya were brainstorming the idea before esmiami posted his idea. Let’s examine the sequence of events:

A. At 10:59 PM on 4/23/2003 under the thread “International Report - Indonesia - West Java”, Junior posted the idea of using a chute to help slow down a large pelagics http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1936&highlight=drag+race

B. At 10:28 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing”, Junior elaborated on the same idea in a new thread that he created. http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

C. At 10:34 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “International Report - Indonesia - West Java”, Iya responded: “ Aside from the chute, I must custom order a C02 inflated float to compliment the chute. It will make a good combination. Let me do some deep thingking.” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1936&highlight=drag+race

D. At 11:30 AM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing”, Iya elaborates: “ If I do that parachute thing, I will use a breakaway and the C02 underwater float or else I will loose the fish. I am still looking for a manufacturer that can build me a 15 liter float CO2 powered and can be pumped to 75 psi. With 75psi or 5 ATM, this guarantee the float will maintain its volume at 140 feet (4.6ATM). Since flotation quality comes from total air volume, I need to keep the float as fat as possible even in the deep.” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

E. At 2:34 PM on 4/24/2003 under the thread “Drag Race Spearfishing”, esmiami finally chimes in: “I've been working on this for a while . . .” http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1961&highlight=drag+race

3. Maybe esmiami did think of it first, but it is clear that Iya didn’t get the idea from esmiami. If anyone could claimed to have inspired Iya it would have to be Junior.

4. Iya has a long history on this board of demonstrating great innovation and insight in meeting the unique challenges that confront him in the area that he spears. I doubt that he needs to steal any ideas from anyone.

Get your facts straight before suggesting that someone is a plagiarist or calling them a “****ing asshole.”

[junior]

Originally posted by IyaDiver
Gentlemen,

My toys have just arrived. As promised to Captain Hector
and some other members, here is what I have.

I don't believe Iya was trying to not give credit where due. I can see that you had some significant input in your post. I just think Iya is excited to try out what he has assembled and was sharing that with all of us who started and responded to the threads concerning the use of a parachute. Esmiami, how is your parachute working?

[esmiami]

It's not that I just had some significant input, it's MY IDEA, pretty much soup to nuts, starting with my ScubaBoard post in February.

Now, getting on to better things. Halkey Roberts makes a breakaway inflator that should work quite a bit better than the one Carter puts on their bags. I have a couple of samples, part #840BIL. They are cheap but you have to order a bunch to make up their minimum. They retrofit on the stems Carter installs on their bags. Leland makes some bigger CO2 cartridges but the cost gets a bit high. The 68gm ones are cheap, under $6 each, biggest bang for the buck. I have a shitload of them for my stringer bags.

Having the release dependent on the load the fish puts on the system to determine when breakaway happens is a bad idea, the diver needs to be able to decide when to release the bag. Last thing you want is to be at 200 ft tangled in the line and have it take off on it's own to the surface. I use a snap shackle so I can decide when I want to release the bag, also, a fairly short line. I think having a reel is also a really bad idea, way too much line to deal with with limited bottom time. You got to blow and go at the kind of depth I plan to use mine at.

And no, haven't had the time to finish mine or test it yet. BUT THAT DOESN"T MEAN IT"S NOT MY ****ING IDEA.


Originally posted by junior
I don't believe Iya was trying to not give credit where due. I can see that you had some significant input in your post. I just think Iya is excited to try out what he has assembled and was sharing that with all of us who started and responded to the threads concerning the use of a parachute. Esmiami, how is your parachute working?

[junior]

http://www.s-curverecords.com/media/Whatever_56.asx

Just could not help myself:D

[Kasshia]

Good looking setup, Iya. I see now, why my earlier suggestion would not have met your needs. I apologize for interupting after your second post. I didn't realize there was more to come.

Scott, please delete my first post on this thread. Thanks.

As for who's original idea it was. If that were really important there would have been a number before anybody said anything, included in the first post, or at least the abbreviations "Pat. Pend." would have been included.

[KJNDIVER]

First, judging from his other posts, IYA seems to be pretty clever fellow with some ingenius ideas. I dont think he came on this board from all the way across the world to try and rip somebody off of his or her ideas. He may have embelished on a thought or two and made it suit his needs. But unless he somehow stole a set of blueprints from your house or something, shut your pie hole and quit the bellyaching. If you wanted to keep your idea all to yourself you should not have broadcast it on the internet for all to see. Where is your copyright? Hell, where is your prototype? All we see is talk from you, but IYA produces results that he wanted to share with the rest of us and that is all he did. But if you feel like he ripped you off in some way, may I direct you to FS to be with all the other whiners on the net?

[esmiami]

He may be a clever fellow with some ingenius ideas but this wasn't one of them.

Originally posted by KJNDIVER
First, judging from his other posts, IYA seems to be pretty clever fellow with some ingenius ideas. I dont think he came on this board from all the way across the world to try and rip somebody off of his or her ideas. He may have embelished on a thought or two and made it suit his needs. But unless he somehow stole a set of blueprints from your house or something, shut your pie hole and quit the bellyaching. If you wanted to keep your idea all to yourself you should not have broadcast it on the internet for all to see. Where is your copyright? Hell, where is your prototype? All we see is talk from you, but IYA produces results that he wanted to share with the rest of us and that is all he did. But if you feel like he ripped you off in some way, may I direct you to FS to be with all the other whiners on the net?

[IyaDiver]

Well, what a big laugh..........ha ha ha. Why are you so upset Esmiami ? I don't gain any finacial benefit by posting the parachute float combo. I like sharing info. And what makes you think I read your post at Scubaboard ?, as per the link you provided. I stopped reading Scubaboard a long time ago, it's not a hunter place.

Fine with me if you have thought about this float as early as few years ago or whatever. Jack Prodonovich even thought something like this before u and I ever even hold a speargun.
The member who gave me parachute/sea anchor idea was Junior, it's on his thread. If you think Mr Carter copied your parachute intergrated float idea, sue him then. I told him my problem of landing the intended fish and he told me he has something new in the works, so I ordered some.

I don't mind you calling me names, to me it's like :
" Hey buddy, where the F***k have you been ". That "F" word can means anything, so it is not necessarily rude. I am in a good mood today and you behaving like as though as I stole your Lottery ticket is already amusing enough.

I am not going to entertain childish arguement with you, if you think it is your idea, so be it. You are not going to send me a free prototype float, right ? Have it your way, its freedom of speech. I need the actual float and I need to land my big tuna, that's all I really need.


JUNIOR, KJN & KITE,
To those members in my defend , I thank you kind gentlemen a great deal.


KASSHIA,
No problem. You were not interuppting the post. I like input. Thanks.

[junior]

Originally posted by IyaDiver
I need the actual float and I need to land my big tuna, that's all I really need.


You da man Iya:cool: :D

[fishhunta]

didn't you know kite was a lawyer? he'll dig up all kinds of shit.

[dlock]

you need to tone it down a bit Mr. Miami. Iya contributes a hell of a lot more than you and is well respected on this site. Keep up the name calling and the attitude and you will find yourself on our personal blacklist. We are here to help each other and share ideas. LIGHTEN UP!!

[jeffe]

One neat thing about this board is the free flow of ideas and the open exchange between various levels of experience.
It is sad to see such a blatant display of EGO and aggression toward another board member that is obviously sharing His excitement of arriving at a solution to a serious and dangerous problem.
Everyone has something in their experiences that most likely will enlighten others on this board.
This open flow of ideas is simply amazing !
It is quite satisfying to see overblown EGO quickly deflated in the defense of a fellow boardmember and the sharing of Ideas philosophy.
Years of hands on research have been tried, from the Tuna Gun experiments to present.
Geeze ! Were' in a freakin' steel slingin' think tank !
Quit yer' bitchin' and enjoy the ride, this experience don't come around very often.

[Hunter]

I am fairly new to this board but reviewed it daily for some time joining. My first (and only) post was in reference to accuracy problems with my Riffe Hawaiian. Iya's response solved my problem and has resulted in a number of nice grouper. You earned my respect. Keep up the great posts!

By the way, Spear One always has great ideas and suggestions and his reponse to my question resulted in me becoming the proud owner of a great shooting 52 Commercial.

[esmiami]

It ain't about EGO, it's about someone representing someone else’s ideas as their own.

By the way, I don't feel particularly deflated.

As far as sharing ideas, I shared my ideas hoping someone else would give them a try, someone did, I hope it works for him.


Originally posted by jeffe
One neat thing about this board is the free flow of ideas and the open exchange between various levels of experience.
It is sad to see such a blatant display of EGO and aggression toward another board member that is obviously sharing His excitement of arriving at a solution to a serious and dangerous problem.
Everyone has something in their experiences that most likely will enlighten others on this board.
This open flow of ideas is simply amazing !
It is quite satisfying to see overblown EGO quickly deflated in the defense of a fellow boardmember and the sharing of Ideas philosophy.
Years of hands on research have been tried, from the Tuna Gun experiments to present.
Geeze ! Were' in a freakin' steel slingin' think tank !
Quit yer' bitchin' and enjoy the ride, this experience don't come around very often.

[KJNDIVER]

As far as sharing ideas, I shared my ideas hoping someone else would give them a try, someone did, I hope it works for him.


If you wanted to share the idea in hopes that someone would try it, then what the ***** is all the crying about.


Damn, first it FDS, now esmiami. What the hell is in the water down there?

[esmiami]

There's a big difference between trying something and trying to take credit for inventing something.

It was where he said "so came this parachute float combo idea" I don't know, maybe it's the language thing but to my ears it sounded like he was taking credit for thinking it up. If I'm wrong and he wasn't trying to take credit for it, I'm sorry I reacted so strongly.

This is something I've been working on for a while and to have someone else take credit for it after reading my posts about it, just burned my ass, bigtime.


Originally posted by KJNDIVER
If you wanted to share the idea in hopes that someone would try it, then what the ***** is all the crying about.


Damn, first it FDS, now esmiami. What the hell is in the water down there?

[kitefisherman]

In context:

Originally posted by IyaDiver


DESIGN MISSION :
To land tough and deep sounding fishes on scuba in
water deeper than 120 feet. Have lost a very nice gun
because of a big tuna, so came this parachute float combo
idea. I Initialy wanted a auto-deploy float and a separate
parachute ( sea-anchor ) in front of it, but ended up
Mr. Carter the float designer made me a combo unit.
Thanks to him.

If Iya had been trying to take credit for "your" concept, wouldn't he have more likely said : "so came MY parachute float combo idea" instead? He certainly doesn't seem to have any problem giving Mr. Carter deserved credit for influencing his design.

[IyaDiver]

Since this thread is so exciting, I might as well show the members how the float design come about. Hopefully it makes good reading. Below is my email correspondence to James Carter of Carter Float




Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "surya prihadi" EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED
Subject: Spearfishing floats
To: carterliftbag@yahoo.com




Dear Sir,

I need some info on your spearfishing float.


Here is what I need, can it perform the followings or at least modified or custom made to do so.

01. I need this float for landing big Tuna up to 50kg / 100 lbs. I will attach this float to the shooting line and have a breakaway system. Let the fish run off with my shaft and I get to keep the gun. The place I hunt is deep at 150 feet and bottom is at 230 feet.

02. I need a float with C02 inflation and must be able to maintain shape at 5 ATM of 75psi equivalent of seawater pressure. Thus the float seams must be able to withstand at least 75psi. It must be between 14-16 liter of air volume. A dead 110 pounder tuna is about minus 14-18 pounds in water. A 15 liter air volume should allow me not only lift the tuna but also tire the fish. I am currently using a reel and I can't take the roller coaster ride of being dragged by a mere 88 pounder, it is too brutal.
The current float I have is a Riffe utility float with +-7 liter of air volume and using a 16 gram C02 catridge. At 100 feet, this float offer too little lift. The material seems to be 120 denier Codura grade or something. I need something much more robust because the Tuna loves to swim for the rocks.


03. Ahead of your float, I plan to use a 2 feet wide sea anchor parachute as the dynamic braking system, hoping it will work like a charm when combined with your float. I am hoping the parachute will not offer more drag than 44 lbs of pressure or else I will have a tear off.

04. The float must be able to withstand at least 30 MPH of underwater speed because tuna can accelerate up to 50 MPH burst speed .So the shape, seams strength and material of choice must meet the criteria. I am using a 150 feet of reel line, it got spooled out in less than 10 seconds.

05. The position or layout of the C02 pull cord must also be planned out for possible auto deploy based on water drag or something. We should be able to work it out.

I hope the info is sufficient to let you know my needs. Many thanks. Awaiting for your reply.


Warmly,




Here is Mr James Cater reply


carterliftbag I <carterliftbag@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Surya,

ENCLOSED ARE PHOTOS OF THE CBFS-45/CO2 FISH STOPPERS.
THEY ARE PHOTOGRAPHED FILLED WITH 20 KGS OF WATER.
THEY ARE FILLED UNDERWATER BY EITHER A ORAL INFLATOR
OR A 45 GRAM CO2 CYLINDER. THEY ARE A VERY BRIGHT
FLORESENT GREENISH YELLOW COLOR. THEY ARE MADE FROM
420 DENIER URETHANE COATED NYLON. PRICE IS $XX.00 WITH
ONE 45 GRAM CO2 CYLINDER OR $XX.00 WITH 68 GRAM CO2
CYLINDER. EXTRA CYLINDERS ARE $7.00 AND $10.00.

THANKS,

JAMES CARTER

( I delete pricing for James Carter convenience. I bought 10 of the prototype floats for my own gang, he might quote differently to others. I respect his right to conduct his pricing )




Here is another email to James Carter


Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 04:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "surya prihadi" EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED
Subject: Re: Spearfishing floats - Questions
To: "carterliftbag I" <carterliftbag@yahoo.com>




Hi James,

Thanks for the photos, that is a BRILLIANT design !!! A parachute shaped float, this is just what I need. A 2 in 1combo

A few questions :

Can you confirm to me at 4 ATM ( +-120 feet salt water ), what air volume out of the 20 liter I am getting. I am calculating that the 45 gram C02 cylinder will fill the float to the fullest at surface. This means, if my calculation is correct, based on 68 gram C02 cylinder, at 4 ATM it will be about only 5 liter ( 1/5 of 20 liter ) worth of air volume. Is it ?

I hope the 68 gram can fill the float to 50 psi at surface and that is very good news. Let me know my worries or offer me options how to make that float really fat enough at 120 feet salt water.


Many thanks.





Then came his reply..............

carterliftbag I <carterliftbag@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Surya,

Your calculations are correct. To completely fill this
float at 120 ft it would take approximately 175 grams
of co2. If you attach a relatively long line between
the spear and the float it can rise into shallow water
where it will have more lift.

Do you have access to Leland Ltd. CO2 cylinders? They
make a 150 gm (#89150) and a 200gm (#89200).
If you buy 10 or more of these fish stoppers we can
sell them for $XX.00 each without cylinders.

Jim Carter



Then I reply back to him.........


Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "surya prihadi" EMAIL ADDRESS DELETED
Subject: Re: Spearfishing floats - Questions 2
To: "carterliftbag I" <carterliftbag@yahoo.com>


Hi Jim,

C02 other than air gun 12 gram is almost non existence here. Every industry or business that uses the C02, use the big refillable bottles. So I need to import everything and decide which is cost effective for me.
Life jackets and life rafts are not a big business here.


I was browsing the web of Leland last night, I saw the 150 gram cylinder.
It is huge but that's the kind of lift I need. I notice that the neck threading is 1/2"-20 for the #89150 (150 gram) and for the 68 gram there is 2 version. One is #87204 with 1/2"-20UNF-1A and the other is #87203 with 5/8"-18UNF-1A. Which one neck thread is your activator using ?

01. Say I want to use the 150 gram one, I also want to make sure I can use the 68 gram cartridge. I want flexibility.

02. What is the price like for 150 gram cartridge ? I think I will want to order 68 gram and 150 gram cartridge.

I just lost a very-very expensive gun last Saturday on a 100 pounder tuna at 160 feet. I need the float bad.

03. CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION - DELETED


04. CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION - DELETED

05. How soon can you prepare the followings for delivery :
- 10 of your Fish Stopper Float
- 40 of 150 gram cylinder
- 20 og 68 gram cylinder

06. Judging from your photo, the pull cord of the C02 activator will need to be pulled side way, as always with all activator. Is it possible that you attach or fabricate a sort of line guide for that pull cord so that, I can pull downwards ( or away from the float as viewed from top ) instead of sideway. When a fish pull the shaft and eventually the shooting line and the float, all in less than 3 seconds, I will attach a 30# fishing line to the pull activator. The pull action will be downwards or exactly away from the float, not side way. The 30# line should be enough to puncture the cylinder but not able to drag me along with the fish. This way it becomes sort of auto deploy and will not endanger me in the process.

Many thanks, sorry for the detailed question. I really need to make sure I have the right product.

Warmly,



So we email back & forth

> carterliftbag I wrote:HI
> SURYA,
>
> THE COST OF 68 GM CO2 CYLINDERS IS $12.16 EACH OR
> $9.58 IN QUANTIES OF 63.
> THE COST OF THE 150 GRAM IS $53.36 EACH OR $27.26 IN
> QUANTITIES OF TEN OR MORE.
> THIS IS MY COST OR YOU COST IF YOU ORDER DIRECT FROM
> LELAND LTD.
> I KIND OF GOT THE RUN AROUND AT THE U.S. POST OFFICE
> BUT THE BEST I CAN TELL THEY DON'T ALLOW CO2
> CARTRIDGES TO BE MAILED. THEY CAN BE SHIPPED BY
> FEDERAL EXPRESS OR UPS.
> I THINK YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF FILLING THE FLOATS
> WITH A 6 CUBIC FOOT SCUBA PONY BOTTLE. YOU COULD
> REFILL THEM FROM A SCUBA TANK COMPRESSOR OR EVEN
> YOUR
> SCUBA TANK. I FOUND SOME ADVERTIZED on THE INTERNET
> FOR LESS THAN $100.00. TRY http://www.scubatoys.com/
> or http://www.zdiver.com/
>
> WE COULD ADAPT THE FLOATS SO THAT THEY COULD BE
> FILLED
> WITH A PONY BOTTLE. 6 CUBIC FEET OF AIR WOULD FILL
> THE
> FLOAT AT ABOUT 300 FT DEPTH. HOWEVER, YOU COULD JUST
> PUT ENOUGH AIR IN THE TANK FOR THE DEPTH THAT YOU
> PLANNED TO BE WORKING AT.
>
> Thanks,
>
> James Carter


So we email back & forth

--- surya prihadi wrote:
> Hi James, I think I want you to design that float to
> have two C02 activators, so that I can use 2 of 68
> gram and only 1 of the 68 gram if I play shallow.
> This way it will only be more expensive a little for
> the initial float purchase but in the long run, the
> use is cost effective. There is no time for pony
> bottle inflation using scuba. I got only 2 seconds
> after I fire....XXX XXXX XXX XXX



Then after a while, the 10 floats finally arrived with 100 pcs of 68 gram C02 cylinders. With so much hassle in C02 shipping, I am glad I ordered them in bulk for long term use..............

[IyaDiver]

HI Kite,

To answer your question if I will get pulled up to the surface or not.

I initially wanted to make a breakaway rigging for the parachute-float combo. Shoot the fish and have the fish take only my shaft, shooting line and the parachute float. This way I get to keep the gun. Entanglement on my body or BCD is possible but very low risk. However, untill I test the float and it is able to repeatedly tires the +- 40kg Dog Tooth Tuna and capable of lifting it to the surface, I still wants to use the reel as insurance.

According to my freediver friend with extensive Dog Tooth tuna experience, a 20 liter float can be sinked with ease by a mere 30kg Dog. This makes me worried, even though my float has water resistance breaking due to the parachute shape. Thus I still want to test it with a reel assistance, this way I still can deploy another 2 x 7 liter floats and my fin kicking, if the fish seems to over power the parachute float.

The good thing about a reel is and been proven a few times are :

01. I get extra 7-10 seconds before the 150 feet line get spooled out. This depends on fish size and undewater terrain though.
Time is important for me, I can hold on to rocks if I am close to one or deploy my small 2 x 7 liter floats.

02. A reel will allow me to fight a fish from the reel line and send up the gun to the surface to allow the 2 x 7 liter float to inflate fully and be effective, while I can maintain depth or ascent slowly.

Provided I don't go deeper than 160 feet ( my own set limit ), I allow the fish to drag me all they like. Myself in full scuba gear is quite a drag for a fish and they tire after a while. This is also better than me holding on to a rock or my reel line get entangled on a rock, which provides dead lock braking effect and the fish flesh will tear open.

I don't know if I can conduct any test soon. The water viz been bad and I am kind of tight on time.

Untill I test the set up, there could be room for further improvement .


Cheers,
IYA

[fernandezh]

It's official!! Iya's penis is bigger than Esmiami's!!!

[fuzz]

Originally posted by fernandezh
It's official!! Iya's penis is bigger than Esmiami's!!!

LOL

[Dogmatrix]

ha haha Iya i wish i had seen this post earlier... I could of been laughing for hours now!

Is there some form of automatic dump valve on your float? I am guessing there would be or it would be a very short lived affair!

Also one other small thing.. with the parachute design would it be worth having a small circular hole in the center to llow some water to go through??? I am finding myself having doubts about the materials ability to withstand the pressure a 100# dogtooth is gong to place on it after you nail him!

I am certainly no engineer! so thats more an interested thought then a suggestion.

Take care!
Shoot big fish...

Originally posted by fernandezh
It's official!! Iya's penis is bigger than Esmiami's!!!

Don't point that gun anywhere it shouldn't be!

Rob

[LuvMyRedDog]

Nice thought Dogmatrix. Makes sense.

Esmiami doesn't have a penis. It's obvious that she's been neutered. Sack it up, beeyatch.

[slipknot]

Originally posted by KJNDIVER
First, judging from his other posts, IYA seems to be pretty clever fellow with some ingenius ideas. I dont think he came on this board from all the way across the world to try and rip somebody off of his or her ideas. He may have embelished on a thought or two and made it suit his needs. But unless he somehow stole a set of blueprints from your house or something, shut your pie hole and quit the bellyaching. If you wanted to keep your idea all to yourself you should not have broadcast it on the internet for all to see. Where is your copyright? Hell, where is your prototype? All we see is talk from you, but IYA produces results that he wanted to share with the rest of us and that is all he did. But if you feel like he ripped you off in some way, may I direct you to FS to be with all the other whiners on the net?

This post says it all .

[LuvMyRedDog]

Check out this link for an old timer (Jack Prodanovich),with huge brass ones, that has been using a self releasing parachute attached to a float since 1983.

http://rocknfish.com/Jack's_Tuna_Gun.html

Hey Esmiami, how come you didn't give Jack Prodanovich his due credit instead of just stealing his idea? That's pretty low.

[rigdvr]

having known Iya for a while now from deeperblue, I can tell you the man is CONSTANTLY innovating and testing. In fact there he is known as Mr. Longpost! He has been evolving this system from various needs for quite sometime through trial and error. As certainn variations failed he was led down this path. esmiami, you think you are the only person to dream shit up? There is another guy on DB who also has been an occasional visitor here, Mr. Don Moore working on a similar but different float.

You are talking about a man that has successfully tested and measured the penetration power of almost every riffe gun made along with the differences with various shaft sizes and band lengths/diameters...

Dont sweat it Iya, remember that it was Al Gore that invented the internet:D