Paper ballots

[Bill McIntyre]

I realize that this is partisan, from the Democratic Party. But I pass it along because with Democrats in power, it could cut the other way. Or maybe you could say that it doesn't matter which party is in power. The electronic ballot system means that we can't really tell who truly won, and that is not good for our Democracy. Whoever you vote for, I think you have an interest in making sure that the winner really won.
********************************
On Election Night, DFA-endorsed candidate Barbara McIlvaine
Smith was down by 19 votes in her race for the Pennsylvania
state house. She refused to concede, saying, "It is not about
winning or losing... It's about making sure our democracy is
intact."

Earlier this week the count of absentee and military paper
ballots concluded, and Barbara won by 23 votes -- switching the
Pennsylvania House from Republican to Democratic for the first
time in 12 years.

This powerful victory happened because every paper ballot was
counted. But across America votes are increasingly being cast
electronically with no paper record. Had the election in
Pennsylvania been conducted electronically there is no saying
how the race might have been decided.

You helped elect a new Democratic House and Senate in
Washington, D.C. It's time to put our majority into action. Ask
Speaker Nancy Pelosi to put paper ballots on the agenda in the
new Congress's first 100 hours:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/paperballots

The danger of paperless elections is clear. Look at Sarasota
County, Florida. They use paperless touch screen voting
machines. In the hotly contested Congressional race there,
Election Night ended with Republican Vern Buchanan ahead of
Democrat Christine Jennings by less than one-quarter of one
percent. This triggered an automatic recount.

On November 20, state election officials certified Buchanan as
the winner by 369 votes, despite the fact that there were 18,000
"under-votes" in the county. An under-vote is when a machine
reports a vote cast for another office, but not for the
Congressional seat. The percentage of under-votes in Democratic
leaning Sarasota County was far higher than in surrounding
counties. And many voters reported that their votes were not
recorded on their electronic ballot. Some said the machine
skipped the race while others couldn't find the race listed at
all.

Currently this contest is being litigated in the courts. But the
results of this election will be forever in doubt because there
are no paper ballots to review.

This is unacceptable. Congress has the power to mandate that all
elections take place using paper ballots. Ask the new Democratic
majority to make it a priority:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/paperballots

The Democrats are committed to an impressive agenda in the first
100 hours of the Congress. They will raise the minimum wage,
require Medicare to negotiate for lower drug prices, implement
the 9/11 Commission security recommendations, cut the interests
rates on student loans, and broaden the types of stem cell
research allowed with federal funds. But Democrats can't stop
there.

Let's restore America's faith in Democracy too. Let's make sure
that in the first 100 hours the Democratic majority makes paper
ballots mandatory:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/paperballots

Thank you for doing your part,

Jim Dean
Chair

[f94gator]

I think the concern over electronic balloting is overblown. Billions of dollars in transactions are recorded every day with no paper trail and that seems to go pretty good.

Y'all have fun debating. I'm out for the weekend. :)

[bgbill]

Bill,

I am glad you brought this up, in Hillsborough county it was a Democrat Supervisor of Elections that bought the touch screen paper less voting machines.

Also why is it when a Democrat loses an election like Al Gore and the case with Jennings in sarasota, they sue?

From all accounts in Sarasota, there is nothing wrong with the machines.

With all of the Republican losses, I didn't hear any cases of Republicans suing.

I also think it is funny how the Democrats made up the word "Under vote" why is it that someone has to vote for every race on the ticket?

It could be they didn't want to vote for either of them in Sarasota, it was a pretty hot campaign, with dirt being slung on both sides, maybe a lot of people didn't want to vote for either of them. But now it is considered an under vote and the democrat can't handle losing, so she is doing the typical thing a democrat does when they lose and that is sue.

I am sure if the tables were reversed, they wouldn't be under votes and the Republican wouldn't sue, and if he did,I would think he was being a sore loser.

[Bill McIntyre]

This is timely, from today's paper. Note that its a Federal research agency, not the Democratic Party.
********************************
Security Of Electronic Voting Is Condemned
Paper Systems Should Be Included, Agency Says
By Cameron W. Barr
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 1, 2006; Page A01


Paperless electronic voting machines used throughout the Washington region and much of the country "cannot be made secure," according to draft recommendations issued this week by a federal agency that advises the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

The assessment by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, one of the government's premier research centers, is the most sweeping condemnation of such voting systems by a federal agency.

This article was the subject of the daily "From the Pages of The Post"
In a report hailed by critics of electronic voting, NIST said that voting systems should allow election officials to recount ballots independently from a voting machine's software. The recommendations endorse "optical-scan" systems in which voters mark paper ballots that are read by a computer and electronic systems that print a paper summary of each ballot, which voters review and elections officials save for recounts.

Voters in Maryland cast ballots on electronic machines that produce no paper record of each vote; in the District and Loudoun County, voters can choose between using such machines and optical-scan systems. Other Northern Virginia jurisdictions, and many counties across the state, use electronic voting systems exclusively.

NIST's recommendations are to be debated next week before the Technical Guidelines Development Committee, charged by Congress to develop standards for voting systems. To become effective, NIST's recommendations must then be adopted by the Election Assistance Commission, which was created by Congress to promote changes in election systems after the 2000 debacle in Florida.

If the commission agrees with NIST, the practical impact may not be felt until 2009 or 2010, the soonest that new standards would be implemented. The standards that the Election Assistance Commission will adopt are voluntary, but most states require election officials to deploy voting systems that meet national or federal criteria.

State election officials in Maryland and Virginia declined to comment yesterday on the NIST report, which they were reviewing.

Alice P. Miller, executive director of the District's Board of Elections and Ethics, said through a spokesman that she would not comment because she is a member of the Technical Guidelines Development Committee.

NIST says in its report that the lack of a paper trail for each vote "is one of the main reasons behind continued questions about voting system security and diminished public confidence in elections." The report repeats the contention of the computer security community that "a single programmer could 'rig' a major election."

Fears about rigging have animated critics for years, but there has been no conclusive evidence that such fraud has occurred. Electronic voting systems have had technical problems -- including unpredictable screen freezes -- leaving voters wondering whether their ballots were properly recorded.

Computer scientists and others have said that the security of electronic voting systems cannot be guaranteed and that election officials should adopt systems that produce a paper record of each vote in case of a recount. The NIST report embraces that critique, introducing the concept of "software independence" in voting systems.

NIST says that voting systems should not rely on a machine's software to provide a record of the votes cast. Some electronic voting system manufacturers have introduced models that include printers to produce a separate record of each vote -- and that can be verified by a voter before leaving the machine -- but such paper trails have had their own problems.

Printers have jammed or otherwise failed, causing some election directors to question whether a paper trail is an improvement. Maryland state elections administrator Linda Lamone, in an undated video snippet that her critics have circulated on the Internet, says that voter verification is unnecessary. "I'm not going to put this paper on my machines -- it'll be over my dead body, because I just don't think it works. It really is a false sense of security," she said.

For critics of paperless electronic voting, the report is vindication. "I think I got it right," said Aviel Rubin, a Johns Hopkins University computer scientist who has long questioned the security and reliability of some electronic voting systems.

Linda Schade, a founder of TrueVoteMD, which has pressed for a system that provides a verifiable paper record of each vote, said, "These strong statements from a credible institution such as NIST add yet another voice to the consensus that paper electronic voting as used in states like MD is not secure. We hope that the [Election Assistance Commission] formally adopts these improved standards."

Even critics of paperless electronic voting have grown disenchanted with the practical problems of adding printers to electronic "touch-screen" voting machines.

"Why are we doing this at all? is the question people are asking," said Warren Stewart, policy director of VoteTrustUSA, a group critical of electronic voting systems. "We have a perfectly good system -- the paper-ballot optical-scan system."

[Wayward Son]

I make my living as a software developer & most of the last 20+ years has been working with databases. there is so much that can be done under the hood to make mischief that you can put me in the group that sees room to be untrusting of it without some hard copy means of validating the data.

Here we use a paper ballot that is quite simple to use, you simply take a black felt tip marker & connect the gap in a broken arrow to make your choice. It gets fed into a scanner, which indicates sucess or failure immediately, & the scanner deposits it into a locked box. These boxes must remain sealed, period. The only exception is if they are ordered to be opened by a court for the purpose of a manual recount.

This system seems to work well & efficiently. There is still the whole software/database underlying it that may be suspect, but you have the actual ballots cast that can be used for validation & they do not suffer the problems associated with punchout type ballots or the use of pencil or some such non-permanent marker.

So far as the voting itself goes, if you can't figure out how to vote with one of these, you probably shouldn't be voting. It's not difficult or complex.

[phlipper]

Looks like just more sour grapes judging from the county demographics (http://www.srqelections.com/voter_stats/voter_registration_by_party_affiliation.htm) which Mr. Dean seems to have somehow overlooked while doing such exhaustive research. Took me all of 2 seconds.

[mnguy]

In a report hailed by critics of electronic voting, NIST said that voting systems should allow election officials to recount ballots independently from a voting machine's software. The recommendations endorse "optical-scan" systems in which voters mark paper ballots that are read by a computer and electronic systems that print a paper summary of each ballot, which voters review and elections officials save for recounts.

We had similar voting machines in Riverside county, and I'd definately agree with NIST's recommendation of them. You would vote all on the touch screen, and then at the end your votes would come printed out on a page that is protected from you touching it and you would read it, confirm it and it would print the next page, etc until all the votes were counted. They were printed on something similar to reciept roll paper and they just rolled up into the machine.

bgbill, I think the Democrats were usually suing because not winning for 12 years means you'll claw for anything you can get. In the increasingly litigious society we live in today, let the Republicans be on the losing side for 12 years and I'm sure they'll latch onto whatever they can get.

[gumshoe]

The modern Democratic party has become a fantastic vehicle of criticism. Beyond the constant critique of how something is wrong with everything, what are they proposing?

I mean, first the "chad" issue a few years ago, now this...

[bgbill]

Bill,

When Florida had paper ballots, the Democrats Cried, now we have Touch Screen Voting and the Democrats cry.

In Palm Beach County there were Democrats crying the ballot was too confusing to them when Bush beat Al Gore, one of the guys crying about it was a Dr., if this guy is too stupid to read a ballot, would you want him treating you?

In Sarasota so far they have found nothing wrong with the vote in which the democratic candidate lost, yet she doesn't have enough integrity to admit when she lost.

When Bill Clinton was President Saddam had WMD's, but once Bush became President, he didn't.

It seems to me a lot of the people in the Democratic Party are a bunch of whiney hypocrites.

[Bill McIntyre]

Bret,

I don't think the National Institute of Standards and Technology is a front for the Democratic Party.

I don't think Wayward Son is either.

Its too bad I couldn't have started the thread with the newspaper article stating that the government body itself had a problem with the system rather than the one from the Democratic Party. Then you Democrat bashers would not have been able to focus on the party rather than our own government's research organization.

[jackpine savage]

I think the concern over electronic balloting is overblown. Billions of dollars in transactions are recorded every day with no paper trail and that seems to go pretty good.

Y'all have fun debating. I'm out for the weekend. :)
Funny everytime I use an ATM even for a balance inquiry I receive a printed record of the transaction.

[bgbill]

Bret,

I don't think the National Institute of Standards and Technology is a front for the Democratic Party.

I don't think Wayward Son is either.

Its too bad I couldn't have started the thread with the newspaper article stating that the government body itself had a problem with the system rather than the one from the Democratic Party. Then you Democrat bashers would not have been able to focus on the party rather than our own government's research organization.

Bill,

I don't read those long cut and paste post's you make, my point is that in the case of Bush versus Gore, after all of the bullshit and recounts, Bush still won.

In the Buchannan versus Jennings case, Buchannan won, yet she still is suing.

The Democrats won the House and Senate, yet they still aren't happy.

In the Palm Beach Case, it was a Democratic supervisor of elections who did the ballot layout when Bush Beat Gore.

In Hillsborough county it was a Democratic Supervisor of elections who bought the touch screen machines, with no paper ballot.

In Manatee county they use a Paper Ballot with an optical scanner, I don't know why they don't use the same system everywhere, maybe it is so the democrats will have someone to sue, if they don't like the election results.

[Wayward Son]

For the record, I'm siding with Dean on this particular complaint. The man is a nutjob, as unhinged as a snakes jaws going around a fat rat.

But, from a technological POV, most people do not have the slightest clue what can be done under the hood with this stuff. Even if the programs themselves are clean, a skilled database administrator can wreck all sorts of havock on the data that even the programs would typically be unaware of, if he or she wanted to.

Regardless of which party you may support or oppose, I don't think you want to leave that back door unlocked & unmonitored. Without a hard copy of the original data, digital data is not really a record. It's a soap bubble. It can be changed & even removed & unless special steps have been taken, there will nothing to show it ever happened.

[jackpine savage]

He is actually a pretty smart guy, more so than most of the Dems out there. Plus, Wayward, I believe the NRA gave him a pretty positive rating when he was gov. of Vermont

[bgbill]

Regardless of which party you may support or oppose, I don't think you want to leave that back door unlocked & unmonitored. Without a hard copy of the original data, digital data is not really a record. It's a soap bubble. It can be changed & even removed & unless special steps have been taken, there will nothing to show it ever happened.

I never liked the idea of a totally electronic vote, I like the way Manatee County does it, there is a paper ballot, with an optical scanner.

[Wayward Son]

He is & they did. He's still a fricking nutjob.

[jackpine savage]

He is & they did. He's still a fricking nutjob.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill,

I don't read those long cut and paste post's you make

OK, I'll quote the meat for you.

Paperless electronic voting machines used throughout the Washington region and much of the country "cannot be made secure," according to draft recommendations issued this week by a federal agency that advises the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

The assessment by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, one of the government's premier research centers, is the most sweeping condemnation of such voting systems by a federal agency.

There is a lot of amplification, but that is the main point.

[bgbill]

Bill,

I am just a dumb florida redneck, with no college edumacation, and could have told you them machines couldn't be trusted.

So does this mean that the democrats stole the election from the Republicans, and we should sue for a recount or a revote if we don't like the way it turned out?

[jackpine savage]

No the GOP just plain blew this one due to incompetence :D

[bgbill]

No the GOP just plain blew this one due to incompetence :D

I would have to agree with you on that. ;)

[phlipper]

He is actually a pretty smart guy, more so than most of the Dems out there. Plus, Wayward, I believe the NRA gave him a pretty positive rating when he was gov. of Vermont
Jack, I think you are confusing him with his more famous brother Dr. Howard...Dean. BTW Hugo Chavez liked those voting machines so much that he bought the company. Smartmatic/sequoia is currently under a federal investigation, but this hasn't stopped 17 states including Florida from using their product. Looks like most people have been pleased with the results so far, except of course for that women in Sarasota.

[Spleen]

With all of the Republican losses, I didn't hear any cases of Republicans suing.

I am sure if the tables were reversed, they wouldn't be under votes and the Republican wouldn't sue, and if he did,I would think he was being a sore loser.

It's laughable to think that one party are better sports, or less self-involved than the other. Before any of these folks are Democrats or Republicans they are Polititians first.

GOP to seek recount in disputed House race
Democrat Barbara McIlvaine Smith has been declared the winner - for now.
By Carrie Budoff
Inquirer Staff Writer

Democrats might want to remove their party hats: Republicans plan to seek a recount in the Chester County election that will determine control of the State House of Representatives.

The House Republican Campaign Committee, as expected, announced yesterday that it would file a recount request by Wednesday's deadline, prolonging the uncertainty that has already dominated Harrisburg politics for a month.

"There's a lot on the line," said Al Bowman, spokesman for the House Republican Campaign Committee.

Clifford B. Levine, a lawyer for the Democrats, said that a recount, although unnecessary, should not change the results.

"When the vote count came in with a 23-vote lead, we were frankly expecting a concession," Levine said. "Having gotten none, we're not surprised that they've expressed their intention to file for a recount."

Republican Shannon Royer came out of Election Day with a 19-vote lead over Democrat Barbara McIlvaine Smith. She pulled ahead by 23 votes this week when more than 230 absentee ballots, some of which poll workers forgot to tally on election night, were counted.

Democrats claimed victory in the 156th District, and - for the first time in 12 years - control of the House, with a 102-101 majority. The Republicans still control the Senate.

Republicans, however, said they wouldn't give up the House easily.

Bowman said Royer decided "a recount was necessary to ensure that every vote cast by voters was counted."

Recount requests are made with the Court of Common Pleas, said Leslie Amoros, a Pennsylvania Department of State spokeswoman.

The judge would determine the method of recount, if one were granted, said Evelyn Walker, a Chester County government spokeswoman.

House Minority Leader Bill DeWeese (D., Greene) called the count of the absentee ballots "achingly methodical and laboriously painstaking."

"That augurs favorably for Rep.-elect McIlvaine Smith," said DeWeese, who is in line to become the next House speaker. "If the Grand Old Party could have pulled a rabbit out of the bag, it would have already been done in the cold hard light of day."

Smith said she did not begrudge the Republicans a recount.

"If I was in the same position, I would be the first one calling for a recount," she said.

Speaking before the intended GOP challenge was known, Smith said she planned to travel Monday to Harrisburg.

She said she would attend orientation and meet with DeWeese about her committee assignments and district office budget.

Smith, who owns a water treatment company, and Royer, who has worked on the House Republicans' staff for a decade, competed for the 156th District seat formerly held by Republican Rep. Elinor Z. Taylor, who retired.

[Marcus]

Necro! :D

It's that time again....voting machine fraud already being uncovered. I'm with Wayward, it's sooo easy to tamper with an electrical voting system. There's been court cases heard with testimony from a software engineer that he was instructed by his boss to rig the machine.



http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/25511115/detail.html

"Some voters in Boulder City complained on Monday that their ballot had been cast before they went to the polls, raising questions about Clark County's electronic voting machines.

Voter Joyce Ferrara said when they went to vote for Republican Sharron Angle, her Democratic opponent, Sen. Harry Reid's name was already checked.

Ferrara said she wasn't alone in her voting experience. She said her husband and several others voting at the same time all had the same thing happen.

"Something's not right," Ferrara said. "One person that's a fluke. Two, that's strange. But several within a five minute period of time -- that's wrong."

[Alashaman]

Reality here is that it is WAY more likely mistakes were made counting paper ballots than getting electronic records (see Florida 2002)

We need to mandate a electronic voting system that forces people to use a government issued ID card to vote.

no more "hanging chad's" no more illegal alien votes, no more dead people voting (yes it happens quite frequently) etc.

I would rather contend with the single likely hood someone might tamper with an electronic system, than that 1000's of way someone can currently cast a fraudulent vote.

And just because someone has tampered with a electronic system in the past does not mean we cant improve on them for the future.

[ocean_314]

Paper ballots are much better. The possibility of someone rigging a voting machine or the machine failing is very scary.

[Marcus]

I would rather contend with the single likely hood someone might tamper with an electronic system, than that 1000's of way someone can currently cast a fraudulent vote.

And just because someone has tampered with a electronic system in the past does not mean we cant improve on them for the future.

That single likely hood 'event' can create thousands upon thousands of fraudulent votes. Hard copy recorded votes are the least susceptible to fraud.

"Now there's absolutely no independently verified evidence of chicanery with the voting machines (yet), but it is worth noting that the voting machine technicians in Clark County are members of the Service Employees International Union. The SEIU spent $63 million in elections in 2008 and is planning on spending $44 million more this election cycle -- nearly all of that on Democrats. White House political director Patrick Gaspard is formerly the SEIU's top lobbyist, and former SEIU president Andy Stern was the most frequent visitor to the White House last year.

Just in Nevada, the SEIU has given a lot to groups that are heavily vested in the state -- in just one prominent example, the SEIU gave $500,000 to the Patriot Majority PAC, which has spent $1.3 million against Reid's opponent Sharron Angle. They've and have dropped large sums directly on candidates:

NV-3


Joe Heck (R)


Oppose


$140,000.00

NV-3


Dina Titus (D)


Support


$344,984.00

NV-Senate


Sharron E. Angle (R)


Oppose


$225,000.00

Now the county voting technicians aren't unique here -- many of Clark County's employees are also represented by the SEIU. But it is worth mentioning, the SEIU is hyperpoliticized and has seen its fair share of corruption. (It certainly seems more questionable than Diebold, the voting machine manufacturer with Republican ties that was at the center of many conspiracy theories on the left during the Bush administration.)

Unions increasingly have a major financial stake in election outcomes, both as a matter of their own election expenditures, and as a function of what they stand to gain if their legislative agenda is enacted. Should they really be responsible for tabulating the votes? That's certainly something voters ought to think long and hard about."


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Voting-machines-in-Clark-County-Nevada-automatically-checking-Harry-Reids-name-Voting-machine-technicians-are-members-of-SEIU-105815608.html#ixzz13Y4S1fXC

[Guido4198]

There are several stories going around these days concerning fraudulent voting and disenfranchisement. They all seem to have one thing in common, the direction of the "error". So I'm going to ask...
Does anyone have any examples of the "computer errors", "electronic glitches", or outright failure to deliver absentee ballots where the "mistakes" and "errors" favored a Republican...???
Not yet wishing to draw any conclusions...just asking for answers.

[Marcus]

There are several stories going around these days concerning fraudulent voting and disenfranchisement. They all seem to have one thing in common, the direction of the "error". So I'm going to ask...
Does anyone have any examples of the "computer errors", "electronic glitches", or outright failure to deliver absentee ballots where the "mistakes" and "errors" favored a Republican...???
Not yet wishing to draw any conclusions...just asking for answers.

Yes, read the first post in this thread.

[Guido4198]

The first post in this thread is from 2006.
I'm asking about the current election cycle.

[Marcus]

The first post in this thread is from 2006.
I'm asking about the current election cycle.

I don't know why it would make a difference, but I haven't heard of any YET. I would look to senior Republicans trying to hold on to their positions for that corruption to surface.
Reid is a corrupt establishment majority party leader. He has the contacts and money backing him to make something like this happen.

[Guido4198]

Coincidentally.....this just in, TODAY, from My Fox Orlando....
IF you wish to learn how easily the process can be manipulated....you can Google the story. In this case, the County Supervisor of Elections was on her toes, saw a possible issue developing and requested law enforcement look into it.
Now, I'M SURE they have the same kind of vigilant public servants in Las Vegas, Cook Co. Ill, New York...etc,etc....so we don't have to worry about this kind of thing being done on a large scale.

Daytona commissioner arrested for ballot fraud
Updated: Wednesday, 27 Oct 2010, 11:58 AM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 27 Oct 2010, 11:53 AM EDT

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. - Daytona Beach City Commissioner Derrick Henry and his campaign manager were arrested Wednesday, charged with committing absentee ballot fraud during Henrys 2010 re-election campaign.

The arrest of Henry and Genesis Robinson comes a little more than two months after Volusia County Supervisor of Elections Ann McFall requested an investigation into irregularities in absentee ballot requests coming into her office.

[ocean_314]

So is this the way its going to be every election.the democrats are going to rig the election with voter fraud.

First we had to deal with Acron and the Black Panthers getting Obama elected now the Democrats are rigging the electronic voting machines?

[Marcus]

http://www.newbernsj.com/articles/machine-91656-screen-voter.html

"October 23, 2010 4:00 PM
P. Christine Smith
Sun Journal Staff

A Craven County voter says he had a near miss at the polls on Thursday when an electronic voting machine completed his straight-party ticket for the opposite of what he intended.

Sam Laughinghouse of New Bern said he pushed the button to vote Republican in all races, but the voting machine screen displayed a ballot with all Democrats checked. He cleared the screen and tried again with the same result, he said. Then he asked for and received help from election staff.

“They pushed it twice and the same thing happened,” Laughinghouse said. “That was four times in a row. The fifth time they pushed it and the Republicans came up and I voted.”

M. Ray Wood, Craven County Board of elections chairman, issued a written statement saying that the elections board is aware of isolated issues and that in each case the voter was able to cast his or her ballot as desired.

Chuck Tyson, chairman of Craven County GOP, remains skeptical. He has been communicating with Wood about the issue and was invited to a meeting Wednesday with state elections officials. There were no further details about that meeting.

“Something is not right here,” Tyson told the Sun Journal. He said he “got two or three calls” from people describing the same problem while they were voting.

“I’ll be matter of fact, I didn’t find that press release satisfactory,” Tyson said, referring to Wood’s written statement."

[Guido4198]

Perhaps in this election, the Democrats figure they need a 4 to 1 advantage in order to have a chance...!!!

[ralphthehalibut]

I gotta agree with you on this one, Bill.

My thoughs may be overly simplistic, but I look at it this way: If hackers can hack into the pentagon, and they have, then voting machines should be a snap for someone to meddle with if they had the right re$ource$.

At least with paper ballots there is a solid piece of evidence.

Not to say paper ballots can't be meddled with, but it seems a little harder IMO

[Marcus]

HBO documentary: Hacking Democracy (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7926958774822130737#)

Here's a great documentary on voting machine fraud.

[Marcus]

I don't know why it would make a difference, but I haven't heard of any YET. I would look to senior Republicans trying to hold on to their positions for that corruption to surface.
Reid is a corrupt establishment majority party leader. He has the contacts and money backing him to make something like this happen.

Did Harry Reid Steal Nevada? (http://www.prisonplanet.com/did-harry-reid-steal-nevada.html)

5 point margin of victory highly suspicious given pre-election polls showing Angle ahead, combined with reports of vote-flipping on machines controlled by Reid’s son and serviced by corrupt pro-Reid union

A serious investigation into potential vote fraud needs to be launched immediately in Nevada, after incumbent Harry Reid beat Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle by a clear five points, despite pre-election polls showing Angle four points ahead, amidst suspicious evidence of vote flipping and other dirty tricks on behalf of the Reid campaign last week that were dubbed “criminal” by Angle’s campaign attorney.

Angle clearly had the momentum going into the election, having come from behind to take the lead over the Senate majority leader.

Four separate Rasmussen polls prior to the election had Angle ahead. Two weeks before Super Tuesday, she held a 50% to 47% lead over Reid. One week prior to voting, on October 26, her lead was extended to four points, with Angle at 49% and Reid at 45%.

The race was tight, but surveys clearly showed that Angle was gradually extending her lead as each week went by.

To have a nine point swing, from Angle enjoying a four point lead just a week before the election, to Reid winning the seat by a clear five points, is highly suspicious, especially given the chicanery that came to light just last week. Nine points is not within the margin of error for polls, especially those conducted by Rasmussen, which is considered to be one of if not the most credible polling agency.

When early voting started last week, reports out of Clark County, home to three quarters of Nevada residents, indicated that electronic voting machines were automatically checking Harry Reid’s name on the ballot.

The technicians that serviced those electronic voting machines were the pro-Reid SEIU (Service Employees International Union), the same corrupt union that was behind thousands of bogus voter registrations across the nation. The SEIU spent $44 million during this election cycle, nearly all of which went to Democrats.

“White House political director Patrick Gaspard is formerly the SEIU’s top lobbyist, and former SEIU president Andy Stern was the most frequent visitor to the White House last year,” adds the Gateway Pundit.

Furthermore, the county commissioner for Clark County is none other than Harry Reid’s son Rory.

In response to the allegations, as well as Reid’s offer of free food and gift cards for people who voted, a move some slammed as bribery, Angle campaign attorney Cleta Mitchell wrote in a fundraising letter that Reid intended to “steal this election if he can’t win it outright”.

“As a result, we need to deploy literally dozens of election law attorneys and poll watchers to combat these tactics at a cost of nearly $80,000,” wrote Mitchell, “That’s over and above our current budget. We need to raise $80,000 and we need to do it RIGHT NOW, because even as I am writing this, Harry Reid and his Machine are trying to steal this election,” adding that the Reid campaign was engaged in “dirty tricks and criminal tactics”.

“When the powerful are threatened, they will do anything to retain their position,” concluded Mitchell.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire – we have evidence of vote tampering before the election and low and behold, establishment candidate Reid manages to pull a 9 point turnaround to save his seat using the electronic voting machines controlled by his own son and serviced by corrupt union members loyal to him.

There clearly needs to be an urgent and thorough investigation into the Nevada vote to maintain the integrity of the entire election process.

The Angle campaign should immediately push for a full criminal investigation into potential vote fraud on behalf of Reid and his cronies.