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Bill McIntyre
12-08-2006, 10:39 AM
You may have heard that the Department of Homeland Security's office of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has created a new citizenship test which will be used to determine which immigrants qualify for naturalized U.S. citizenship. It will rigorously assess immigrants' knowledge of "the fundamental concepts of American democracy," asking tough questions such as "Why do we have three branches of government?" "What is the rule of law?" and "What are inalienable rights?"

On an NPR program I heard the other day, a reporter was stopping American citizens on the street and asking them sample questions, and they were not doing very well.

Requiring those who want the privileges of U.S. citizenship to have some minimal knowledge of American civics is a great idea, but there's no reason to restrict this test to immigrants. We should make native-born Americans take the test too — and deport them to their last known countries of ancestry if they flunk.

Fair's fair. Research suggests that most native-born Americans would probably fail the new exam — even though most of us are second-, third- or 10th-generation immigrants and have had generations to get this civics thing down. Why should we ask first-generation immigrants to know more about the United States than the rest of us?

Last spring, one survey found that although 52% of Americans could name two or more of the characters from "The Simpsons," only 28% could identify two of the freedoms protected under the 1st Amendment. Another recent poll found that 77% of Americans could name at least two of the Seven Dwarfs from "Snow White," but only 24% could name two or more Supreme Court justices.

In September, the Annenberg Public Policy Center released a poll showing that only two-thirds of Americans could identify all three branches of government; only 55% of Americans were aware that the Supreme Court can declare an act of Congress unconstitutional; and 35% thought that it was the intention of the founding fathers to give the president "the final say" over Congress and the judiciary.

Should these people really be voting? Maybe we should deport them. Our cities would be less crowded, and we would free up some ocean-front property. One study found that college students at elite universities tended to do even more poorly on civics questions than students at lower-ranked schools. (Students at UC Berkeley, Brown, Cornell, Duke and Yale were among the most woefully ignorant.)

And if we deported so-called citizens who don't know anything about the U.S. Constitution, it's not just beachfront real estate that would open up. We could clear out the White House too.

At various points over the last six years, this administration has claimed the right to detain U.S. citizens and hold them indefinitely without charge, trial or access to counsel; the right to ignore laws passed by Congress; and the right to evade judicial review of executive branch actions. Members of the administration, from the president on down, have made it clear that as far as they're concerned, there's only one branch of government and there's no such thing as inalienable rights.

Rumsfeld would be sent back to Germany, where his ancestors came from. He might end up indicted by a German court for authorizing the torture of U.S. detainees, but that's the breaks. For Bush and Cheney, deportation wouldn't be nearly so bad. Bush would be sent back to Fantasyland, where he spends most of his time anyway, and Cheney would feel right at home back in his native Transylvania.

Wooley
12-08-2006, 11:04 AM
I think we should be a tad bit more worried about their sentiment towards America rather than what they know about America.

FredT
12-08-2006, 11:19 AM
Reportedly one metod of catching NAZI spies was to feed them a question based on the third verse of the national anthem. If they got it right the suspecion level went through the roof.

While a simple civics test probably shouldn't be the basis of arbitrary deportation, it would make a good voter qualification test!

If you don't know the government is supposed to work you can't vote until you do.

FT

jackpine savage
12-08-2006, 11:36 AM
Kind of ironic that you would mention this test as a standard for citizenship and then deport those who fail, in essence violating the same constitution which they are being quized upon. While an individual can surrender their citizenship, the 14th Amendment protects us from having it stripped away by the government

Bill McIntyre
12-08-2006, 11:58 AM
I was not serious about deportation, just making the point that many of our citizens couldn't pass the test that is required of immigrants before they can become citizens.

Our democracy is not very secure when many of the voters don't even know how its supposed to work.

mcjaret
12-08-2006, 12:25 PM
I'm shocked that 2/3rds could id the three branches of government. I'd have thought it much lower than that.

Bill McIntyre
12-08-2006, 12:26 PM
Its good to find a fellow cynic.

Wooley
12-08-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm shocked that 2/3rds could id the three branches of government. I'd have thought it much lower than that.

Here is a little stat that validates your statement

Stupid Americans (http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/index.html)

FredT
12-08-2006, 02:01 PM
Our democracy is not very secure when many of the voters don't even know how its supposed to work.

In many areas the voters don't even have to be BREATHING! The New Orleans Parrish grave yard vote alone is generally larger than the margin of victory in many LA statewide races. Several states have actually made it illegal to cross reference death certificates with voter registration!

Actually requesting the voter to KNOW something is raising the bar quite a bit!

Of course this general ignorance is also a pretting damning thing for the NEA upper level types as well. Obviously their "education reforms" of the 80s and later didn't work all that well.

FT

Bill McIntyre
12-08-2006, 02:10 PM
All kidding and cynical comments aside, I'm not so sure how I'd answer some of the questions unless they are multiple choice. The three branches of government question in pretty straightforward. But for instance, what is "the rule of law?" How much latitude is there for different definitions, all of which might show some basic understanding of the concept?

Another question that the NPR reporter asked on the street was "Where is the Statue of Liberty?" The correct answer was "New York Harbor," but what if I just answered "New York City?" Is that good enough.

mnguy
12-08-2006, 02:30 PM
All kidding and cynical comments aside, I'm not so sure how I'd answer some of the questions unless they are multiple choice. The three branches of government question in pretty straightforward. But for instance, what is "the rule of law?" How much latitude is there for different definitions, all of which might show some basic understanding of the concept?

Another question that the NPR reporter asked on the street was "Where is the Statue of Liberty?" The correct answer was "New York Harbor," but what if I just answered "New York City?" Is that good enough.

You'd probably have to grade the answers like they do on essay exams in college, or at least where I went. The professor gives his TA's a list of things to look for in each question, points he wants to see made and such. The professor also gives each point a weight within the question, such that the major points are worth a bigger percentage of the question than the minor ones.

For the three branches of government question(if it was define the three branches and explain their significance in relation to each other), for example, you would get maybe 5% of the question for the definition of each branch, 15% for fleshing out what each branch does and the remaining 40% would be talking about all the checks and balances and how they intertwine. Of course, each of those categories will have their subpoints that need to be addressed in order to get the full credit.

Naturally, this test will have to be in English. Sadly, this somehow runs counter to how people are pushing the government to print these tests.

jackpine savage
12-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Bill-Knew you weren't recommending the deportation of these people. I was just trying to illustrate that citizenship in this country requires nothing more than being born in the right spot.

mbhalihunter
12-08-2006, 09:46 PM
if we made people pass a test to vote, which I think is a good idea, some people would think that they were similar to the jim crow laws in the south that were used to keep blacks from voting. And then they would have to make the test in spanish and other languages too.

stickitfishy
12-08-2006, 10:49 PM
Democracy? Good one!


I was not serious about deportation, just making the point that many of our citizens couldn't pass the test that is required of immigrants before they can become citizens.

Our democracy is not very secure when many of the voters don't even know how its supposed to work.