Carter Bashing

[zenspearo]

Since Bill Mac is not around, someone else gotta be stirring up stuff around this politics forum.

I like Carter. He's our cool redneck peanut-farmer prez. He's been bashed to hell and it's a shame.

I wish his critics would discuss the ideas that Carter brought up in a logical, thoughtful way instead of smearing the man.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

John Nichols: Carter critics stifle Middle East debate
By John Nichols
There is an ugly cynicism to the attack on Jimmy Carter that has been launched by Americans who well recognize that the former president's new book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," says nothing that has not already been said about the Middle East conflict by Israeli politicians and commentators.


So why is Carter, a longtime friend of Israel and the Jewish people, being smeared as an anti-Semite for suggesting that the occupation by Israeli forces of Palestinian territory inspires troubling comparisons with the apartheid system that white South Africans once imposed on their country's black majority?

One of Israel's most prominent political figures suggests that it has a lot to do with the determination of Carter's critics to allow their emotions to trump the facts.

"The trouble is that their love of Israel distorts their judgment and blinds them from seeing what's in front of them," argues Shulamit Aloni, a veteran of Israel's war of independence who went on to serve in the Knesset and as a minister in several Israeli cabinets. "Israel is an occupying power that for 40 years has been oppressing an indigenous people, which is entitled to a sovereign and independent existence while living in peace with us."

In a defense of Carter penned for the mass-circulation Israeli newspaper Yediot Acharonot, the woman who served as former Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin's education minister wrote, "Indeed apartheid does exist here."

"The U.S. Jewish establishment's onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring to tell the truth which is known to all: Through its army, the government of Israel practices a brutal form of apartheid in the territory it occupies," explains Aloni. "Its army has turned every Palestinian village and town into a fenced-in, or blocked-in, detention camp. All this is done in order to keep an eye on the population's movements and to make its life difficult. Israel even imposes a total curfew whenever the settlers, who have illegally usurped the Palestinians' land, celebrate their holidays or conduct their parades."

Aloni should be reminded that the battering of Carter has as frequently come from non-Jews as Jews in the U.S. But, with that clarification, her message is one that merits serious attention from Americans who are frustrated by this country's inability to engage in a serious discussion about Middle East policy.

This does not mean that everyone must agree with Aloni's every point.

A recipient of the Israel Prize, the highest honor awarded by her country's government, the internationally respected parliamentarian has long been a critic of Israeli policies toward the Palestinians. Some will disregard her remarks for that reason. Others who respect Aloni's history may disagree with her current critique. But no one who has followed Israeli affairs can doubt that she speaks for a meaningful number of her countrymen and women when she defends Carter.

In fact, the Web site of the Israeli peace group Gush Shalom recently featured this call: "Please consider adding your voices to those who are grateful to Jimmy Carter for writing a brave and important book, 'Peace Not Apartheid.' While the media tries to blank him out, and some would cast aspersions at President Carter for being 'anti-Israel,' in fact the book offers much needed wisdom about how to support a just peace in Israel and Palestine."

Aloni and Gush Shalom certainly do not speak for all Israelis. But their response to Carter's book should be instructive for Americans.

It is not necessary to share all of Aloni's views to recognize that the veteran of the Hagana paramilitary organization has done a service not only to Carter but to all Americans who would like to see this country engage in an honest dialogue about Middle East affairs. While Israel enjoys a reasonably vibrant debate with regard to how the Jewish state should relate to Palestine, the United States suffers from a crude and dysfunctional discourse about the same question. The attacks on Jimmy Carter highlight just how ugly and dishonest that discourse has become. Perhaps that is why Shulamit Aloni's pointed response to those attacks is so important. It took an Israeli to remind us of how much more realistic the U.S. dialogue could - and should - be.

[jackpine savage]

I spent a lot of time in Israel and the West Bank kand Gaza in the 90's due to my job. People can say whay they want about Carter but until you have been to that area then there is no way to realize how much it truly resembles an apartheid state. Carter got it right, the Palestinians are treated like crap and people can justify it any way they like but I have lived there and seen it and if I were one of them I would be pissed to.

[bgbill]

How can the Palestinians expect to be treated with respect when they use Homicide Bombers?

They teach their kids that from an early age, and they think that by allowing their kids to strap on a bomb belt or drive a car bomb, that they will be martyr's, how can you even expect to reason with these people?

[Christof]

I spent a lot of time in Israel and the West Bank kand Gaza in the 90's due to my job. People can say whay they want about Carter but until you have been to that area then there is no way to realize how much it truly resembles an apartheid state. Carter got it right, the Palestinians are treated like crap and people can justify it any way they like but I have lived there and seen it and if I were one of them I would be pissed to.
I totally agree JPS, but my views on the Palestine situation usually end with a bunch of "R" words thrown about... We sympathise with our own indians because they were thrown off their own land, yet the Palestinians had the same happen to them when Israel was formed... Sure, the Jews had the area at one time, but the same happened here... American Indians migrated here across the bridge from Asia, and fought each other over the land for eons. The strong ended up with the best hunting/foraging areas... Europeans came over and were stronger, so they ended up with the spoils...
I often wonder how many "Pro Israelis" know the real situation over there, or the fact that when they were given the green light by the UN to take over the Palestine area, that they also took all the fertile farmlands in the region? Do they know that that is the reason the Lebanese still hate them? They still refuse to give up the Lebanese and Syrian fertile farm belts that they captured back in the 70's... Read up....
Oh, and while I am on that subject, I sure hope they are not stupid enough to use nukes on Iran, as was leaked by someone high in the Israeli military..

[jackpine savage]

Bret- This has been going on a lot longer than the use of bombers. They made their first appearances in the early nineties, 20+ years after Israel took the West Bank and Gaza. Carter is getting lambasted because he compared Israels occupation of the West Bank with South Africas apartheid state, not because he is excusing suicide bombers and their attacks on civilians. I am no fan of Carter but in this instance he is right, it is as close to apartheid as exists in the world.

[bgbill]

A lot of that "Fertile" farm land you are speaking of was desert land, it was the Israeli's that irrigated it and made it fertile land.

If the palestinians are so great, why won't any of the Arab countries like Jordan give them any land?

[Christof]

How can the Palestinians expect to be treated with respect when they use Homicide Bombers?

They teach their kids that from an early age, and they think that by allowing their kids to strap on a bomb belt or drive a car bomb, that they will be martyr's, how can you even expect to reason with these people?But Bill, the Indians in this country used to attack and slaughter the old, women, and children at their most deperate time in history.... The majority in this country understand why they did that, whats the difference?
I dont condone or even understand radical Islamists, but I do understand the underlying hatred they have towards those that took their land, reaped riches, and live in splendor compared to their own lives.. If you study the history of Palestinians, they were relatively affluent prior to the takeover.. Many had large farms, and lived well, only to have it all taken away and overnight became poor as dirt... Look at how pissed people here get over "Eminent Domain" foreitures, imagine the same thing but without being given a penny...

[bgbill]

Bret- This has been going on a lot longer than the use of bombers. They made their first appearances in the early nineties, 20+ years after Israel took the West Bank and Gaza. Carter is getting lambasted because he compared Israels occupation of the West Bank with South Africas apartheid state, not because he is excusing suicide bombers and their attacks on civilians. I am no fan of Carter but in this instance he is right, it is as close to apartheid as exists in the world.

Speaking of south Africa, you don't hear much about all of the white farmers having their farms taken from them, and being killed, and when it is taken from them, it is no longer being farmed.

South Africa will end up like the rest of Africa, it will be a 3rd world country before too long.

With the Palestinians, it was Yassar Arafat who came up with the idea of hijacking airplanes, how did that work out for them?

And the Palestinians wonder why people despise them.

[aaron proffitt]

We sympathise with our own indians because they were thrown off their own land


Don't even get me started on our own indians....live in Indian coutry long enough and you ,too,will see why they were conqured. It's like natural selection at the socio-economic level. Same with the Palestinians. Fail to move forward and you fall behind....


BTW,good to see you Christof.Been awhile.

[aaron proffitt]

Speaking of south Africa, you don't hear much about all of the white farmers having their farms taken from them, and being killed, and when it is taken from them, it is no longer being farmed.

South Africa will end up like the rest of Africa, it will be a 3rd world country before too long.





Africa is wasted on the Africans. :thumps:

[jackpine savage]

A lot of that "Fertile" farm land you are speaking of was desert land, it was the Israeli's that irrigated it and made it fertile land.

If the palestinians are so great, why won't any of the Arab countries like Jordan give them any land?

Where exactly do you get this information from? There was a very large population living there when the mass immigration of European Jews began in thearly 1900's, and the land was and has been very fertile, hence the name the fertile crescent. Even most Israelis agree with that assessment. Why should anyone give them their land when the land they had was taken from them. Again most Israelis also agree that peace will only be possible with the Palestinians through a land for peace deal. How that deal comes about is the tricky part.

[bgbill]

Africa is wasted on the Africans. :thumps:


Unfortunately the United States send over a shit pot of money to help them out, and it will only get worse.

As far as the Indians go, if it weren't for being put on the reservations and given a bunch of money and being able to sell ciggarettes and own casino's they would have been long gone.

I have heard reports of their very high Alcoholism rate, I think it was over 70%.

[bgbill]

Where exactly do you get this information from? There was a very large population living there when the mass immigration of European Jews began in thearly 1900's, and the land was and has been very fertile, hence the name the fertile crescent. Even most Israelis agree with that assessment. Why should anyone give them their land when the land they had was taken from them. Again most Israelis also agree that peace will only be possible with the Palestinians through a land for peace deal. How that deal comes about is the tricky part.

The Palestinians do not want Peace with Israel, they want the Jews exterminated, smited from the face of the earth.

Hoiw can the Jewish people even consider trying to be at peace with people who want them dead?

The story I am talking about with the watering of the desert was on discovery Channel a few years ago, they turned a lot of desert land into farm land, there was some farm land before, but the Jewish people made more farmland out of once barren deserts.

[aaron proffitt]

Having lived in the heart of Indian country for much of my life ,BG...the rate total of dysfunction among the Indians is staggering. Even grotesgue. 70 % would be a very conservative number for alcoholism.

Course,I type this half lit on scotch in honor of our first bad winter storm of the year.

[jackpine savage]

Again all of this is very interesting but misses the point of the topic, the attack on Carter for calling Israels action in the West Bank "apartheid". I have to much to do tonight to debate this but from what I have seen with my own eyes, and I lived in Jerusalem for 7 years, the treatment of the Palestinians in the West Bank is as close to apartheid as you can get. By the way Bret I do agree with you on the suicide bombings, it is an act of desperation that continues to backfire on the Palestinians. Strange that you don't get so upset over the women and children killed by Israeli military action. Guess their lives just aren't as worthy of your sympathy.

[Christof]

A lot of that "Fertile" farm land you are speaking of was desert land, it was the Israeli's that irrigated it and made it fertile land.

If the palestinians are so great, why won't any of the Arab countries like Jordan give them any land?
What???? Prior to the takeover Bill, date and orange farms were flourishing in that area. All of areas farmed now were once farmed by both Palestinians AND Jews... They lived together mostly in peace for a long time prior to the formation of the Jewish state... Sheeba farms was taken from Syria and is still held today. It is the most fertile area in the region... As I said before, Palestinians and Jews worked the land together in Cooperative fashion for hundreds of years before 1948, then the palestinians were forced off their lands and squeezed into the Gaza Strip which was run by Egypt... They now live in squalor and are not allowed to move or go anywhere unless it is out of the area entirely.
You think the Jews brought irrigation to the region?? LMFAO! You need to read up on the ancient egyptians Bill.... They had irrigation down pretty good several thousand years ago...

The reason other countries dont help the Palestinians is two fold... Firstly, they are a political hot potato, and helping them will only get you in trouble with the world.. Any funds sent there are immediately confiscated by the Israelis as "terrorist funding"... Secondly, the Palestinians were kind of like Gypsies, never "belonging" to any country... Similar to the Jews prior to being handed their own state.. Most just want that, a homeland. Look what happened in South Afrika... You hold people down long enough, they can become pretty violent. Funny how the violence has settled in SA since apartheid ended...

[aaron proffitt]

Jack,even other Muslims don't give a second glance at the Palestinians as they are not Arab. There are many Arabs who live well in Jerusalem, just not bus bombing Palestinians.
Fact is,I believe, the Palestinians and Jews could live together peacefully but not without the Pals. putting the first and most sincere step forward. Otherwise, I would treat them differently as well.

[aaron proffitt]

What???? Funny how the violence has settled in SA since apartheid ended...
:wtf: :wtf:
SA has the highest murder rate in the WORLD....you were saying ?
Again,Africa is wasted on the Africans.

[bgbill]

By the way Bret I do agree with you on the suicide bombings, it is an act of desperation that continues to backfire on the Palestinians. Strange that you don't get so upset over the women and children killed by Israeli military action. Guess their lives just aren't as worthy of your sympathy.

The Israeli's usually only fight back, like when a homicide bomber goes to a school and kills a bunch of kids, then the IDF will strike back, and they do have some collateral damage.

I do feel bad for the innocent people killed, but they are also the same ones that are being raised in a culture where it is acceptable to strap on a bomb and go blow up innocent women and children.

I am not going to get in a long debate on this, I have discussed the Palestinians before, and it isn't worth getting into again.

Iran is going to be a problem, North Korea is going to be a problem, and I think with the pussification of our politicians and political correctness, they will not allow the Military to do what is necessary to defend us against these threats.

[bgbill]

Funny how the violence has settled in SA since apartheid ended...

You really should bring that shit you are smokin' over to Plant City, because I haven't had anything that good in awhile. :eek:

[mcjaret]

I, too, have spent time in Israel and, though it hurts my mouth to say so, I agree with Carter on this one.

Its easy to criticize terror tactics, but for decades the Israelis have been bombing the living sh*t out of Palestinian women and children every time some Jacka$$ gives them an excuse and often even when they don't have an excuse. The difference is their bomber flies back to base and goes to the club rather than taking the ride with the victim. At last check, Palestinian kids were dying at Israeli hands many, many times faster than the reverse.

Most the early leaders of Israel were considered terrorists (and rightfully so) when the Brits had control. Now they are considered great statesmen. Nelson Mandela was sentenced to hang at one time for terror activities; now he's the father of his country. King George probably considered us terrorists unworthy to waste oxygen during our revolution. The Nazi's considered the French Resistance a terror organization.

Terror is a tactic normally used by the weak, powerless, and oppressed against the powerful. When you have nothing else, you do what you have to do. In the long run, it often works if your political will outlasts your opponent's. It isn't always right, and its never pretty, but that's the way it is.

In history's long view, winnning does wonders for your image.

[Christof]

Again all of this is very interesting but misses the point of the topic, the attack on Carter for calling Israels action in the West Bank "apartheid". I have to much to do tonight to debate this but from what I have seen with my own eyes, and I lived in Jerusalem for 7 years, the treatment of the Palestinians in the West Bank is as close to apartheid as you can get. By the way Bret I do agree with you on the suicide bombings, it is an act of desperation that continues to backfire on the Palestinians. Strange that you don't get so upset over the women and children killed by Israeli military action. Guess their lives just aren't as worthy of your sympathy.Again spot on.... And dont forget, the terrorist tactics we see now were spawned by the Jews first.. They started the bombings when they were trying to form a state. The UN saw that it was only going to get worse so they caved and gave them their own state..... Now why didnt that happen for the Palestinians? Sadly, it may be too late now. The hatred is so deep it will take generations for it to fade away even if they get a state.
How long would it take your family to forget Bill if I were to kill you and your kids, and bulldoze your home to give it to someone else? Multiply that by decades of takeovers and killings, and I wonder how your future generations would feel? Hell, I still see a deep grudge by southern folk at the mere mention I am from "the north", even though I am a first generation american.. How many millions died in the civil war? Even after the war ended, how many rogue condederate soldiers roamed around in packs killing and burning plantations taken from the south by northerners?
It's a lot more complex the deeper you go Bill, unfortunately, most americans dont go very deep in trying to really understand the dispute. The "Holocaust" was the best thing to ever happen to the Jews (a Jewish scholars words, not mine), for it gave them carte blanche in the eyes of the world.. And they still play that card on a daily basis... Hell, we are forgiven and liked by the Japanese even though we nuked them... Why is it that the Jews cant let go of the holocaust in the same manner?? Because my friend, guilt is a mighty powerful tool, and has worked wonders.. Why let go of your ace card?

[jackpine savage]

Aaron-Palestinians are Arab. They practice either Islam or Christianity, but they are ethnically related to the other Arabs in the neighboring countries. Bret- like you I feel bad about the innocent people on both sides who die. Palestinains kill innocent Israelis and Israelis kill innocent Palestinians. As far as Palestinians dying as a result of an Israeli response to a Palestinian attack, how I wish that were true. The documentation of civilian deaths at the hands of the IDF is numerous, they have innocent blood on their hands too. Also there are a lot of Palestinians who don't want to exterminate Israel, its not as black and white as you may think. The whole situation over there is a clusterf**k which is why I left a very good job over there and moved home to be a builder. Less stress and no bullets or bombs to dodge. Its sad because I made friends among both sides and they were very nice people and I found it to be a beautiful country. If they could just get their sh*t together and quit killing one another it would be a nice place.

[aaron proffitt]

[QUOTE=mcjaret] At last check, Palestinian kids were dying at Israeli hands many, many times faster than the reverse.




And that's how a war is won.When the enemy dies faster than your kind.



The Nazi's considered the French Resistance a terror organization.


Kind of an apples and oranges comparison. Our forefathers would have been hung as triators...your point is ...?

[bgbill]

Hell, we are forgiven and liked by the Japanese even though we nuked them... Why is it that the Jews cant let go of the holocaust in the same manner?? Because my friend, guilt is a mighty powerful tool, and has worked wonders.. Why let go of your ace card?

The reason we used the Nukes was to end the war, it was the humane thing to do, had we invaded japan, there would have been a lot more dead on both sides, we did Japan a favor by nuking them, you also seem to forget that they attacked us, remember Pearl Harbor?

As far as the Jews letting go of the Holocaust, they lost 6 million people, they did not attack Germany, btw how many japanese did we kill by dropping the 2 bombs?

and how many ended up being saved by the war being ended without an invasion?

[Christof]

:wtf: :wtf:
SA has the highest murder rate in the WORLD....you were saying ?
Again,Africa is wasted on the Africans.I was speaking about the killing and such going on in the name of ending apartheid.... Black on Black violence has, and will continue there and here for a long long time....
My wife asked me the other night (thinking out loud) why B on B violence was so bad... at the risk of it sounding really bad, my answer was "If you think about it, 300 yrs ago they were living in huts and fighting each other, tribe on tribe. It takes quite a while for changes to occur"...
I really do believe that. Just like Indians and alcohol... Their systems have only been subjected to it for a couple hundred years, wheras europeans have been ingesting it for millenia..
How long did it take us to evolve from grunting animals as a species?? Change in behavior, "hard wiring" takes time...

*Oh man, I am in trouble now* :eek:

[Christof]

You really should bring that shit you are smokin' over to Plant City, because I haven't had anything that good in awhile. :eek:Damn, we could share.... If only more people would smoke weed, we could probably all get along.. I cant remember EVER getting into a tussle when simply smoking weed with others.. Get rid of alcohol and make smoking joints prior to negotiations mandatory.... :D

[aaron proffitt]

[QUOTE=jackpine savage]Aaron-Palestinians are Arab. QUOTE]


Alot of the other Arabs don't consider them Arab. ;)

[mcjaret]

Aaron,

If you re-read the last two paragraphs of my posting, you'll see my point.

Had our forefathers been hung as traitors, or had Hitler prevailed, our revolutionaries and their resistance fighters might well be veiwed today with the same level of universal approval as, say, William Quantrill's raids on Kansas. If the terror tactics had not resulted in Israel, if we read about them at all, those great statesmen might look like the Bader Meinhof Gang, Carlos the Jackal, or Red October.

The end result will be used to justify the means, if you win. If not, you'll be crucified for it.

Please omit me from the Holocaust firestorm about to erupt on this thread. I don't deny it. My sister-in-law had family who died in it. It was wrong and horrible. Millions of Jews and non-jews were slaughtered pointlessly. But, I just don't see it as relevant to the original discussion.

[Christof]

My post was not a denial, please dont take it that way... I guess it is simply funny to me how things are cemented in history and carried on... It was terrible, it was horrific. But it was not unique in our worlds history, yet it is treated like it was. Thats all.. I deleted my post as even though it was something that I experienced in my life from someone that experienced in his life, it is useless to even speak contrary to what is popular belief...

Sorry for getting way off subject...


Carter is a nice guy, but he was no great president in my view..

[bgbill]

Carter is a nice guy, but he was no great president in my view..


Finally we can agree on something.

[Christof]

Finally we can agree on something.
No, you forget we agree on how good weed is.... :lol:

[jackpine savage]

I am sure that Bush is a nice guy but he too is a failure as president. I guess we just need to keep electing jerks.

[bgbill]

I am sure that Bush is a nice guy but he too is a failure as president. I guess we just need to keep electing jerks.

Reagan wasn't a Jerk and he was a great President.

[jackpine savage]

I would say good president but he seemed like a nice guy.

[aaron proffitt]

Aaron,

If you re-read the last two paragraphs of my posting, you'll see my point.

Had our forefathers been hung as traitors, or had Hitler prevailed, our revolutionaries and their resistance fighters might well be veiwed today with the same level of universal approval as, say, William Quantrill's raids on Kansas. If the terror tactics had not resulted in Israel, if we read about them at all, those great statesmen might look like the Bader Meinhof Gang, Carlos the Jackal, or Red October.

The end result will be used to justify the means, if you win. If not, you'll be crucified for it.

Please omit me from the Holocaust firestorm about to erupt on this thread. I don't deny it. My sister-in-law had family who died in it. It was wrong and horrible. Millions of Jews and non-jews were slaughtered pointlessly. But, I just don't see it as relevant to the original discussion.


But Hitler was a Leader of his country and our forefathers were opressed by leaders wihout any representation.There is a diffreence. Hitler was the opressor, our forefathers were not.

It's all in how you look at it now the outcome. Nevertheless, well said well thought out.

[aaron proffitt]

I am sure that Bush is a nice guy but he too is a failure as president. I guess we just need to keep electing jerks.


They're all jerks,Jack.

[bgbill]

I would say good president but he seemed like a nice guy.

I guess coming from Kennedy Country, I will take that as a compliment. ;)

Do you think John F.Kennedy was-

A) a good president

B) a bad president

C) a great president

D) a terrible president

[jackpine savage]

I will go out on a limb and say he was a good president though it would be interesting to see how he would be held had he not been killed. I think people consider him a great president because he was assassinated and that was then followed by such a turbulent decade.

[bgbill]

Jackpine,

I tend to agree with you for the most part, but I don't think he was a good president, maybe I should have put in the selection of answers mediocre.

From what I have read and seen he was a charismatic guy, had a great wife Jackie, a nice GF Marilyn, he got lucky with the Cuban Missile Crisis, screwed the pooch at the Bay of Pigs.

But I think the reason a lot of people think he was a good or even a great president was because he was killed in office, it seems like he got a few brownie points for that and they tend to forget some of the screw up he made.

[Spearchuckerz]

Im glad Carters crew is running for the hills. He sucked as a president and then he thinks he has the balls to tell everyone in the world what to do?

My flag will be full mast when the most USA hating president EVER is gone.

Too bad he has the most kick ass nuclear sub named after his punk ass.

Thanks for the vent.

[Marcus]

So...will someone give some precise points as to why Carter was a bad president? ...instead of generalizations.

[bgbill]

So...will someone give some precise points as to why Carter was a bad president? ...instead of generalizations.

Hostages

Interest Rates

[Marcus]

Hostages

Interest Rates


Can you explain in more detail how these 2 events were directly Carter's fault?

[jackpine savage]

Jimmy Carter was a hostage taker? Man I knew you could never trust a Southerner :D :D :D

[bgbill]

Can you explain in more detail how these 2 events were directly Carter's fault?

Carter was the Commander In Chief of the Military, he could have done something about the hostages.

Carter had control over the Federal Reserve Chairman, and could have had some impact on lowering the interest rates.

Everything that is wrong with America today is Bush's fault, so when things were wrong when Jimmy was President, doesn't it make sense it was his fault also?

[bgbill]

Jimmy Carter was a hostage taker? Man I knew you could never trust a Southerner :D :D :D

If he was the hostage taker, it would have been easier to get them back. ;)

[Marcus]

Carter was the Commander In Chief of the Military, he could have done something about the hostages.

Carter had control over the Federal Reserve Chairman, and could have had some impact on lowering the interest rates.

Everything that is wrong with America today is Bush's fault, so when things were wrong when Jimmy was President, doesn't it make sense it was his fault also?


From what I understand, Bush never headed the advice of his cabinet. I've never heard such things about Carter.

[bgbill]

So...will someone give some precise points as to why Carter was a bad president? ...instead of generalizations.


So do you the the Peanut farmer was a good President?

If so, please show me some examples and not just generalizations.

[Marcus]

So do you the the Peanut farmer was a good President?

If so, please show me some examples and not just generalizations.


I didn't say he was a "good" President. I'm just think, as the original poster of this thread, that he doesn't deserve the chastizing that he's received.


BTW, don't try turn this around to your game...I started it first this time. I want you to prove to ME why he was a bad president. :D

[Marcus]

Bret? Where you at??:D

[stickitfishy]

:drunk:

[mcjaret]

Carter was a total micro-manager who didn't listen to anyone. I asked a buddy who was Naval Academy grad (like Carter) why he was such a tool -- while he was President. His opinion was that Carter was a Nuke. It required a belief that you had a technical answer for everything but needed no leadership ability.

Going to watch football and drink now.

[bgbill]

Bret? Where you at??:D

I had to go to work and supervise some of my non union illegal alien workers, and just to make fishstick happy, I fired the 2 that had the most kids. :eek:

[DIVERTOM]

I think Carter served his country in the military unlike what we have now.

[bgbill]

I think Carter served his country in the military unlike what we have now.


I know Bush didn't go to Vietnam, neither did Clinton, I don't think Clinton was in the Military, but wasn't George W. Bush a Pilot in the National Guard?

I know some people may not think the National Guard is the Military, but then what is it?

What does being in the Military have to do with whether or not Jimmy Carter was a good president anyway?

[jackpine savage]

its not whether he was a good president or not it is whether his description of Israels policy in the West Bank is correct or not.

[DIVERTOM]

I see Carter was a Annapolis grad and served in the Navy submarine
program when the cold war was on and anyone who was in the Navy
knows the submariners were the elite of the fleet. Like they say there
are submarines and targets.
I see Bush was in the Air Force "Chicks with dicks" when ever it was
conveient for him to keep him out of Nam.


Carter is entitled to his opinion in his book. Why is that sheepherder
land so important to the relgious Republican kooks anyways. Why do
they make the headlines. Who cares about some Middle East dung hill
unless they have oil.

[ITSABOUTTIME]

I see Carter was a Annapolis grad and served in the Navy submarine
program when the cold war was on and anyone who was in the Navy
knows the submariners were the elite of the fleet. Like they say there
are submarines and targets.
I see Bush was in the Air Force "Chicks with dicks" when ever it was
conveient for him to keep him out of Nam.


Carter is entitled to his opinion in his book. Why is that sheepherder
land so important to the relgious Republican kooks anyways. Why do
they make the headlines. Who cares about some Middle East dung hill
unless they have oil.
I was in the navy,we thought the submariners just liked the tight quarters and breathing the recycled farts.

[100days-a-year]

Because those of us :cowboy: who actually did go into a war arena prefer to do all our work before all that oil buys those sheepherders the second biggest standing army(Saddam,pre Bush 1)or Nukes(SatanAbdinijizzwad)

In part due to the cowardice or diplomatic lunacy Neville Chamberlain types use to justify not doing anything until only the blood of 10s of thousands of our heroic servicemen and women will save US yet again from that stupidity.