2nd Amendment

[Sarah]

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

[JLittle44]

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."

— Tench Coxe, 1788.

Most all of the people on this board will agree. Again, welcome.

[inletsurf]

"You are the government"
-Greg Graffin, Bad Religion.

[f94gator]

"There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period. "

Ted Nugent

[bug_power]

"There are hundreds of millions of gun owners in this country, and not one of them will have an accident today. The only misuse of guns comes in environments where there are drugs, alcohol, bad parents, and undisciplined children. Period. "

Ted Nugent
Ted's full of shit on this one. There's more then one example of accidental discharges of weapons from tripping, dropping or cleaning a loaded weapon that have lead to death. I'm an avid 2nd ammendment supporter, but don't say all will not have an accident. It happens and to say it was one of the above is bullshit.

[f94gator]

How about this one? :D

"Mr. Janet Reno? I think Mr. Janet Reno... I think he's one of the best hunting dogs in the world. "

[Belzelbub]

Ted's full of shit on this one. There's more then one example of accidental discharges of weapons from tripping, dropping or cleaning a loaded weapon that have lead to death.
Many years ago, my Driver's Ed instructor (who also happened to be quite insane) made it a point that there was no such thing as accidents. Most, if not all, can be attributed to operator error. Cleaning a loaded weapon is definitely not an accident. It's negligence. Tripping and dropping could also be negligence. If the gun is prone to "accidental" discharges by dropping, then get a different gun. Or, in the case of a revolver, don't carry with a live round behind the hammer.

[NOTANX]

Many years ago, my Driver's Ed instructor (who also happened to be quite insane) made it a point that there was no such thing as accidents. Most, if not all, can be attributed to operator error. Cleaning a loaded weapon is definitely not an accident. It's negligence. Tripping and dropping could also be negligence. If the gun is prone to "accidental" discharges by dropping, then get a different gun. Or, in the case of a revolver, don't carry with a live round behind the hammer.
i agree

[f94gator]

I'm sure Ted realized that shit does indeed happen - but ya think he was perhaps exaggerating to make a simple point? That guns in the hands of responsible owners are NOT the problem?

[Wayward Son]

Prolly was. I also do not like the term "accidental" discharge. I prefer unintentional discharge. The true accidental discharge seems to me a very rare thing.

[Mobile Diver]

Excellent point. Here is a thread you might like: http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=42527&page=1&pp=15.

Welcome aboard!

[NateSmith]

My pop always taught me about negligent discharges, and then when I got in the Marine Corps, they preached the same thing.

Personally, even here in the People's Republic of California, I own guns. Lots of 'em. And I like them.

I'm all for everyone having a gun. Should make the entire world polite. When the other guy's got a gun, how likely are you to run off at the mouth?

Or as Robin Williams put it, I'm all for the right to bear arms, the right to arm bears, whatever floats your boat.

And I'll have to agree with Ted on this one. Drugs, alcohol, and bad parents do cause the majority of the gun problems; society just chooses to blame people's behavior on inanimate objects.

Both of my children (and my girlfriend's daughter as well) have been shown my guns. They all know what they are, what they're for, and not to touch them without my permission and presence. I also keep the keys for my locks (yes, each gun has a lock on it) on me at all times.

[mikeleebaker]

some fine points made here. i've grown up around guns, and many of them, my entire life. my entire family (not just my immediate family either) owns guns and lot's of them. the responsibility that goes along with owning and handling them is not taken lightly in my family. there's never ever been one "accident" in my family. my father once said "if you can get in front of a gun while my sun is holding it i'll give you 500 dollars." (it was not a dare or a bet, he was making a point! just in case anybody is about say anything.)

i honestly think the problem lies with the lack of exposure most people grow up with. whether it be poor instillation of responsibilities on the parents behalf or the complete lack of introduction to guns for the majority of an individuals life. when a person of this type of upbringing finally does encounter a firearm, there's a good chance they will not possess the respect or self control to safely wield a tool designed to kill.

and it's not just the lack of familiarity around guns that makes that individual dangerous, it's the lack of familiarity with death as well that makes them dangerous. not only have i been around guns my whole life but around death as well. a lot of people don't have first hand experience with death. so they don't possess the reverence, respect, and understanding of it that a more enlightened individual would.

so without a deep understanding and familiarity with death, how can one be trusted with a tool designed to kill?

a lot of people are far to sheltered these days from the realities of life and death.

someone on this forum has a quote that i like very much. i don't remember it word for word, but it's something to the effect of :"if guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars get into wrecks, McDonalds makes you fat, and oprah does something too..." lol i forget but you get the point!

[bikewrench]

I call BS on this one. The quote below is improperly using the word "acccident". The quote implies that an accident is something like "an event that cannot possibly be prevented". That is NOT the definition of an accident. An accident is an "an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap". This definition has to cover dropping a loaded weapon, cleaning an "unloaded" (loaded) weapon, forgetting to lock the safe, etc. Those are in fact "accidents" and they often end up in damage, injury, or unintentional death. The scary part is that every single gun owner reading this right now is POSITIVELY SURE that it cannot happen to them.

Many years ago, my Driver's Ed instructor (who also happened to be quite insane) made it a point that there was no such thing as accidents. Most, if not all, can be attributed to operator error. Cleaning a loaded weapon is definitely not an accident. It's negligence. Tripping and dropping could also be negligence. If the gun is prone to "accidental" discharges by dropping, then get a different gun. Or, in the case of a revolver, don't carry with a live round behind the hammer.

[firefyterx]

* James Madison: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A well-regulated Militia, composed of the people trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."

* Samuel Adams: "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms."

* Thomas Paine: "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property ... horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

* George Mason: "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."

* George Washington: "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people's liberty teeth. A free people ought to be armed. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour."

* Thomas Jefferson: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. ... The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

* Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for, concerning the people at large, is that they be properly armed."

Nowhere in there do I see any indication that they mean anything other than the citizenry at large.

[mikeleebaker]

well done firefyterx!

lol you were the fella with the quote i was talking about!! i love that!

[HurricaneBK]

After what happened in Miami to the four officers, I began thinking about the intention of the 2nd amend. While what happened is a tragedy, the guns are not responsible, and restricting access to certain types of weapons is not going to solve the problem.

[100days-a-year]

Accountability.Strong laws about the mis-use of weapons and swift punishment for wrong-doers.Balanced by the the implied threat of overthrow by legal owners against tyranny that our founders included as a civics lesson.Shame the pissdant lawmakers of the last century have constantly made it harder to own one and harder to punish a criminal.