The war is wearing down the army

[Bill McIntyre]

West Point Grads Exit Service at High Rate
By Bryan Bender
The Boston Globe

Wednesday 11 April 2007

War's redeployments thought a major factor.
Washington - Recent graduates of the US Military Academy at West Point are choosing to leave active duty at the highest rate in more than three decades, a sign to many military specialists that repeated tours in Iraq are prematurely driving out some of the Army's top young officers.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041207T.shtml

[David Deman]

Yep, and it's driving out the enlisted side, too. I've always said that war was gonna come around to bite all the people who joined the military for the college money. "Wait. I wanted to go to college for free, but now you want me to go to war in return?" Should've read the fine print, kids.

[Bill McIntyre]

In fairness to these guys, I don't think its just going to war that is the problem. It's going overseas away from their families so much.

Assuming that a person wants to have a marriage and a family, its pretty damn hard to build one when you are gone all the time. It takes a special woman to be raising kids and running a household solo, and its hard to blame those who decide that they don't want to do it.

There was never an operational tempo like this during my career. Even during Vietnam, I had 27 months at home before I got orders back to do it better the second time.

[jfjf]

Yep, and it's driving out the enlisted side, too. I've always said that war was gonna come around to bite all the people who joined the military for the college money. "Wait. I wanted to go to college for free, but now you want me to go to war in return?" Should've read the fine print, kids.


I have been against the Shock and Awe attack of Iraq from day one and I continue to think that it is a huge mistake and a monumental exhibition of the stupidity of the American people, however I would never say something so negative about our enlisted personnel. They have made huge sacrifices and the American people haven't even had to pay one dime for the war. All the human costs have fallen upon our enlisted people and the financial costs have been defered by tacking in onto the National Debt.

If I even knew anyone in the Wars, I might say something stronger to you.

[David Deman]

jfjf, let me introduce myself a little better. I'm Sergeant David Deman, 229th Military Intelligence Battalion. I spent 12 months in Tal Afar, Iraq(about 30 km west of Mosul) with the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, and lost a few good friends in my time. I'm in the process of getting divorced from my wife, in large part due to the time that we spent apart(a year and 8 months between our 3 deployments, which overlapped) and i've missed most of the life of my 3 year old daughter. I'm well aware of the sacrifices our enlisted soldiers make, cause I am one.

[ITSABOUTTIME]

I have been against the Shock and Awe attack of Iraq from day one and I continue to think that it is a huge mistake and a monumental exhibition of the stupidity of the American people, however I would never say something so negative about our enlisted personnel. They have made huge sacrifices and the American people haven't even had to pay one dime for the war. All the human costs have fallen upon our enlisted people and the financial costs have been defered by tacking in onto the National Debt.

If I even knew anyone in the Wars, I might say something stronger to you.
now you know someone :D

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm so sorry to hear that Dave, but that is exactly the point I made earlier before I ever heard your story. It was hard enough for my wife, but she had it easy compared to yours. There is a limit to human endurance, both for soldiers and their families. That should have been part of the calculation when we committed to this thing, but the only senior member of the administration who had ever heard a shot fired in anger was Powell, and he was marginalized. These people have no compassion for you, can't relate to your sacrifice, and equate you to a piece of machinery.

I recall talking to my dad about 13 month tours in Vietnam, and he replied that he went to Europe in WWII and couldn't come home until he won. He was right, but then his war really was for our national survival. Wars to get Bush reelected and to secure profits for Bechtel and Halliburton are not in the same category, and people can be forgiven for not thinking that its worth sacrificing their wife and kids.

I'm sure that many families were broken up by WWII, but that was a war that had to be fought. If it ruined some marriages and screwed up some kids, so be it. It had to be done.

This one didn't have to be fought, and your family need not have been tested. I'm proud of your dedication if you have chosen to stay in, but please don't blame those who have decided that the sacrifice is not warranted.

[David Deman]

And I don't, Bill. I honor every single person that has gone over there, and made the sacrifice. It's just a thing that I've had since I joined 10 years ago, that was a point at which the level of college graduates joining the Army was very hgh, and continues to be, so far as I can tell without looking at specific numbers. But I've always told these people who came in to pay off their college loans and said we'd never go to war that it was going to come full circle and catch them in their own ignorance.

[Bill McIntyre]

Dave,

I have no idea how many people came in for the wrong reasons and are only bailing out because they actually had to fight a war. I'm sure that at least some hoped to pay for college but were perfectly willing to go to war if justified.

Hell, I was of them. The NROTC paid for college, and then I owed them three years for payback, although I ended up staying a few years extra. But I'm pretty sure they would have never seen my ass in the first place if they had not offered to pay for college.

But in any event, if the Army induced people to come in to get college paid for while minimizing the chance that they might get their asses shot off, can we really blame people who took the bait? The Army set out to fool them, and it worked for a while.

[Smudge]

I don't know everything about bluewater hunting. I don't know everything about reef hunting. I don't know sh!t about rig hunting. But I know that when I joined the UNITED STATES NAVY 14 years ago I was joining the Navy not the Coast Guard, not the Life Guard(Bless their souls, for they've saved more lives than me) not the boy scouts or the brownies, but, the UNITED STAES NAVY!! The most powereful war fighting Machine on planet Earth!!! The Air Force needs bases to fly from, the Army needs land to fight on, and a ride to get there, even MY BELOVED MARINE CORPS needs a Navy ship to get to the land that they WILL dominate.

If you joined MY military thinking that you would never have to Fight!, then you need to go back to history class my friend.

This is NOT Vietnam, this is NOT Korea, this is NOT WWII. This is our WAR, we are volunteers. There has not been a draft in this country for over 30 years. We are still an ALL VOLUNTEER force. So kiss MY ass. If you don't like it, DON'T SERVE! We will still be here, defending your right to stand back and watch.

[jfjf]

jfjf, let me introduce myself a little better. I'm Sergeant David Deman, 229th Military Intelligence Battalion. I spent 12 months in Tal Afar, Iraq(about 30 km west of Mosul) with the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, and lost a few good friends in my time. I'm in the process of getting divorced from my wife, in large part due to the time that we spent apart(a year and 8 months between our 3 deployments, which overlapped) and i've missed most of the life of my 3 year old daughter. I'm well aware of the sacrifices our enlisted soldiers make, cause I am one.


Well I guess you can say just about anything you want on the topic!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[David Deman]

Amen, Smudge.

And thank you, jfjf. :D

[Nsearch]

I'm not going to get caught up in the subject of the thread but I would like to thank Twentytwomonk and Smudge for their service and sacrifice. I have 2 brother-in-laws who have seen more than their share of Iraq and Afghanistan and from them I've learned a lot about the sacrifice.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/banned79/ENGBRD/unitedstates.gif

[aaron proffitt]

I know we as a family are tired of it.
Got a call yesterday from my Mother.Seems she had gotten a call from my brother,who is serving in Iraq right now with the 10th Mtn. Div..Apparently,his unit ,which had been in a fairly "safe"area along the Tigris, had been moved near Baghdad.Just yesterday,his unit suffered the loss of 4-6(we're still a little uncertain of the exact number due to a bad phone connection)soldiers in one IED blast.Tore up the humvee they were in.Upon hearing that,I pretty much crawled into a bottle of whisky and stayed there the remainder of the day.This lil incident was the last straw for me,guys.I don't give a shit if we pull out and civil war insues. I don't care. But as far as I 'm concerned,I value American lives a hell of a alot more than Iraqi lives.

[Bill McIntyre]

Aaron,

Here's hoping your brother makes it home safe.

[Bill McIntyre]

Since I made comments about how hard these frequent deployments are on families, I guess I'm obligated to pass along this Rand study that says divorce rates in the military are no higher than 10 years ago. It does hedge and say that its just a snapshot, and that it didn't address problems for kids or alcohol abuse by soldiers and spouses.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-marriage15apr15,1,2587268.story