More on the Fascism Subject

[Mikerotch]

Although the following article is from a site I don't always agree with, the validity of this piece is astounding. Those who would disagree with the tenets are simply in a state of denial regarding our current administration. King George will not likely finish his task of destroying our nation in his remaining time, but he has certainly achieved more in this regard than any other individual in our nation's history. I hope this will help open the eyes of "conservatives" who have steadfastly supported this goon simply because of his party label and the fact he claims to be a Christian. He may, in fact, be a Christian, and he is certainly a Republican, but he is without doubt an enemy of our constitution. I would remind all "Christian Republicans" that freedom to be either or both will be curtailed or eliminated should we continue on this path. I will provide a link, as the article is probably a bit too long for pasting. I look forward to your reponses, meanwhile, I'm going to go jump in the ocean, swim to the bottom and shoot (at) some fish.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Mikerotch, Still Taking Off The Republican Garments, Opting For Libertarian Ones

[jadairiii]

Boiler plate article (either left or right), big on generalities and innuendo, very short on “truth” and relies on the reader to have limited knowledge of history. I also relies on blame shifting. Fact is, like it or hate it, all the legislation put forth by Bush made it through both the House and Senate. Also we now have a legislative branch that has the ability to reverse some, if not all, of Bush’s prior legislation. Its all because of Global Warming though. I would write more but those pesky black helicopters are circling my bunker again.

John

[mcjaret]

I fear God is trying to tell me something. I just wrote an hour and a half response to this article when the computer blinked, and I lost it all. Sorry, but I shouldn't have wasted the time once and I'm sure not going to do it again.

Suffice it to say, refuting this is so easy a caveman could do it. If nothing else, the recent takeover of Congress by the Democrats demonstrates that point.

[toecheese]

The problem is that the democrats are often worse- I was hoping for constitutional protection with the republicans (state rights, 2nd amendments, etc.) and now I hope the dems can undo it? Nope. No more RINOs.

[Mikerotch]

This caveman can't do it. Granted, some of the points cause more concern than others, but there is substantial evidence to support every one of the 10 points he makes. I, for one, am greatly concerned that the public outcry for some of his blatantly unconstitutional acts and positions have not been more substantial. The recent takeover by the democrats proves nothing, as they have the same "government is the solution to everything" philosophy, just slightly different flavors. By the way, what if I said, "so easy a military attorney could do it" ? Let me guess, that wouldn't make any sense to you. Why not, because military attorneys are shmart?

Mikerotch, Beating The King George Is A Substantial Problem Drum.

[thors hammer]

Mike your constant retoric about Hitler and fascism goes too show that you truly dont know what labels too use on who..
Just because your country never bore the full effect of what fascism truly had too offer( massmurder, gasovens, deathcamps) dosent meen that you can allow yourself too compare your tiny cowboy of a president with true monsters like Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin...
It gets doll, listening too the same conspirational teories over and over again, because they all end up in the same place..Fascism tooday is apperant in all the strong islamic countries..dont understand why you can only see your own country's wrongdoing and not all those things America help shape...It might be fun for you too look at your country and its admin, from the ouside in a more comparable light.Im not fully into the changes in your constitution but im aware that most countries in the free world is either doing the same ore discussing doing it soon.
We have too ajust into this new order where the old polarised enemies are gone and the new enemy live next too us ore among us..
I dont see Bush as an great president but i'll rather trust him than the selfish beoucrats in the EU who would never agree on helping anyone exept their own..
Guantanamo is not the solution but it was the best thing we could do, as we werent prepared for what was coming..
Why do i as a dane defend USA..
Mainly because here ,they carry flags with Stalin and Lenin when they go to parties and rallies..and trust me here you find alot of Bush=nazi and America=massmurder stickers..The liberal socialist of europe and the islamic wakening all pick up on slogans like the ones, uttered inhere..So everytime you start a unsound critic of the admin..well you can hear it a few weeks later on the streets of Copenhagen when they burn american flags and chant " death too the jews and the americans"....
Bush needs too go, but ill rather have a man that reacts too fast than a man not reacting at all

[Mikerotch]

Thors, did you read the article ? The point was not to say G.W. has achieved the level of tyranny of say, Hitler, but simply to make people aware of the track we are now on. Instead of lumping me into some "radical conspiracy group", how about read the article and tell me which of the 10 points the author is in error on.

Mikerotch, Happy To Admit Fault If Legitimate

[thors hammer]

okay Mike i see the point in that since the polarised cold war ended, America is on its own and could be at risk for falling into a less democratic society..but Bush is gone by the next allection and that makes it a great difference too Hitler and Stalin
I think the teory is suitable for the situation in USA but not plaussible. Facism today is indeed very real but as said before it exicst mainly in islamic regions of the world

USA have allready a history of flirting with dictatorship in the fifties under the big commie-scare..i cant see an open intellectual society go back in its own tracks like that. America would be isolated and china the new empire and that would hurt the american economi..something wich is more important too the admin than any shift in ideologi..maybe i just have too high thoughts of the new Rome.

the artist of USA could never be restricted in anyway
Guantanamo is not Gulag nore is it Teresienstadt..the prisonners possesses some basic rights witch no jew in germany ore russia ever had
The war impossed on us all would have come anyway no matter what admin was i charge.Its something with root in the global islamic awakening
Bush might be a fanatical Christian..but still a westerner i think the common history would make any fascist take-over impossible

[Mikerotch]

Bush is a fanatical Christian

Not by Biblical standards, only when courting "Christian" voters.

Mikerotch, Judging The Fruit

[thors hammer]

bassically he is motivated by the christians of the mid-west..but i have a feeling that like Jeltsin, well all miss him ones his gone..I mean what does Letterman have left to joke about when some dried out democrat takes over..at least Bush was an original and im my view he started something witch had too be started..he just did it in a wrong way...
But a fascist.??? no the Bush-admin might be selfish but the fascism-label no matter its rapped in a democracy-setting, is too strong..
the amount of Freedom is defined by your enemies not your leaders

[Mikerotch]

the amount of Freedom is defined by your enemies not your leaders

Not where I come from, pal. My freedom is derived from my Creator, not some bureaucrat who happens to buy the most votes. Enemies have no authority, period.

Mikerotch, Thinks Europe Should Try Freedom

[thors hammer]

maybe you heard of the Muhammad-cartoons in Denmark( a journalist drew a cartoon that could be the profet) the response was an outcry of rage all over the islamic world.our embassies were attacked and burned. Everywere on TV we saw them set fire too our flag (the world's oldest national flag) and in Copenhagen danes were attacked by islamic mobs on Nørrebro, the islamic area..
a long story but the effect of that single cartoon was billions lost in trade doo to boycots of danish products and a press wich tooday is too affraid too report what is really going on in Denmark concerning muslims because of fear of provoking the islamic Umma again...Therfore our enemies have defined the space in witch we discuss our future...
The only muslim too join danish politics ever..Have, unlike the rest of our politicians, 24 hour armed protection arround because of the feeling among european muslims, that by joining the democracies he is an traitor too the islamic cause..Another example where the enemy is setting the terms of how long you can go if you happens too disagree with the Islamic Umma..
So Mike outside God's own country theres a storm coming your way..im affraid that soon you or maybe your kids generation will be in the same dillema that we are in today
how too stay loyal too your humanistic values and at the same time trying too save your culture and your tribe..

[Don B]

Mikerotch, the black choppers are not coming to get you. Go see your doctor and he will give you some medication to make the bad men go away.

[Mikerotch]

Thanks Don, for the encouragement. It means a lot to me. If you could, please loan or sell me some of the stuff you're taking that enables you to think our socialist, nation building, constitution ignoring, tax us to death leadership is anything but the tyrants that they are.

Mikerotch, Waiting For The Good stuff

[thors hammer]

hehe..the black choppers..hehe Don B that was a good one!!
and Mike i hope you do get better and realise who the enemy really is.
The Bush admin is surely not perfect but there is a far more serious threat too your beloved freedom coming from the dusty deserts of the middle east..thats not propaganda its a historical fact..

Do you think the rising wahabi's of europe would care for your right too pour critik over the establishment

[lens]

Mikerotch, the black choppers are not coming to get you. Go see your doctor and he will give you some medication to make the bad men go away.

Maybe they are. ;)

Little long, but check this out. From "Frontline"

Around 5 chapters combined for 54 minutes.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view/1.html?c=2wm

[lens]

hehe..the black choppers..hehe Don B that was a good one!!
and Mike i hope you do get better and realise who the enemy really is.
The Bush admin is surely not perfect but there is a far more serious threat too your beloved freedom coming from the dusty deserts of the middle east..thats not propaganda its a historical fact..

Do you think the rising wahabi's of europe would care for your right too pour critik over the establishment


Who is the enemy? They do not hate us for our freedom or that we allow women to vote...They hate us for our foriegn policy.

Hate to tell you this, but making a religion your enemy only makes that religion stronger. Hence why the Evangelicals like to use the “Christians are being persecuted in America” to rally up their followers every so often.

I think you just like the idea of the US handling your country's problems. Which is immigration, not so much terror threats. Like your example of the Danish film maker… that was an act of murder, not terrorism.

Maybe you should study American history and what makes us so great, since you seem to "act" like you know so much.

And I am sure you are all about sacrificing our “American” freedoms since you do not live here, or have to pay the taxes that front the bill for this war.

[Bill McIntyre]

Who is the enemy? They do not hate us for our freedom or that we allow women to vote...They hate us for our foreign policy.



See my last post to the "Why they hate us" thread, in which Mikerotch's man, Ron Paul, says that very thing, and I think he makes a pretty good case.

[thors hammer]

Well lens first of all the western battle with islam has been going on since the invasions of Spain in the 700 th a.c.. answered by the crusades, witch The Ottomans took over up through the late middleages and the renasance..The brake is 1ww..the Khalifat brakes down..and ever since then the Umma has been trying too rise again..so when you say that the conflict is only doo to your american foreign policy it only shows that YOU dont know your world history.....( something many americans are wrongly blamed for but apperantly not all)
USA helping us with immigration?? i must laugh!! is it the concept of your open mexican borders you would recommend us,ore perhaps the total division between races in most major cities, or perhaps the ethnical gang-culture??
i must be honest too you,,our current problems are mainly doo too our politicians trying too follow in american shoes when it comes too immigration..soo lens i must say thank you but NO THANKS!!!!

oh and lens since you are soo aware of your country's actions i bet you allready now that one of the few allices your country has had through both Afghanistan and iraq, is Denmark..When the spains, italians and poles all deserted you in the desert..we stood by you, and still do
our soldiers die too.. so maybe you should try and stick your nose outside you own borders before you start japping about others effort..

Islam is an worthy enemy..we might live in mutural respect with eachother from a distance but we will never become one..

and just too round up on your excellent insight.. The movie director who was murdered for making a critical movie about islam..was from Holland and NOT Denmark, and where's the freedom in that by the way??
will you only realise this when they start killing of american directors??

[lens]

Well lens first of all the western battle with islam has been going on since the invasions of Spain in the 700 th a.c.. answered by the crusades, witch The Ottomans took over up through the late middleages and the renasance..The brake is 1ww..the Khalifat brakes down..and ever since then the Umma has been trying too rise again..so when you say that the conflict is only doo to your american foreign policy it only shows that YOU dont know your world history.....( something many americans are wrongly blamed for but apperantly not all)

Man your English grammar is almost as bad as mine. ;)

US problems in the Middle East do not stem from 700 AD. They stem from US actions and decisions within the last 30 years.

But…Answered with the Crusades? I can’t believe that someone would actually be trying to justify the Crusades? And your time table is very off, sorry man. I am not going to even try to educate you; it is not worth my time. But number one, the crusades were between 1100 AD-1300 AD and continued into the 16th century. And were started to recapture Jerusalem. And then to stop the spread of Islam to the East.


USA helping us with immigration?? i must laugh!! is it the concept of your open mexican borders you would recommend us,ore perhaps the total division between races in most major cities, or perhaps the ethnical gang-culture??
i must be honest too you,,our current problems are mainly doo too our politicians trying too follow in american shoes when it comes too immigration..soo lens i must say thank you but NO THANKS!!!!

first I never said copy ours and I never said our society was perfect, that is why we need to get the F#2k out of Iraq and fix our internal affairs such as immigration and Class issues before we start f-ing with International ones.

US Immigration problems-This is one thing we can agree on, yes it is screwed up. again, I do not think I said ours was perfect, But Danish immigration policy is not a concern of US policy. So deal with it yourself.And do not try to justify the war in Iraq by crying about Danish immagration problems.

oh and lens since you are soo aware of your country's actions i bet you allready now that one of the few allices your country has had through both Afghanistan and iraq, is Denmark..When the spains, italians and poles all deserted you in the desert..we stood by you, and still do
our soldiers die too.. so maybe you should try and stick your nose outside you own borders before you start japping about others effort..


Yeah, thanks for the total whopping number of 460 current troops on both fronts. We have 145,000.Worthy Ally huh?

Islam is an worthy enemy..we might live in mutural respect with eachother from a distance but we will never become one..

and just too round up on your excellent insight.. The movie director who was murdered for making a critical movie about islam..was from Holland and NOT Denmark, and where's the freedom in that by the way??
will you only realise this when they start killing of american directors??b

Well my apologies, you are right on his background, you got me there.

Regardless, he was murdered by a hateful delusional person using Islam as an excuse. But since you brought it up, how will staying in Iraq stop events like that happening?

My issue with your points, and since you especially say you are "Jewish", is that you are asking for a genocide of the Islamic nation. “Kill them all before they kill us, Islam is our enemy, and no one can live free if Islam is allowed to survive” is basically what you keep repeating. Very reminiscent of a few horrible leaders from the early 20th century who wanted to wipe out a race and a religion?

[thors hammer]

Lens! well sorry about the gramma, im clearly not native english-speaking..
the crusades ended basically with the rise of the ottomans who then attacked eastern europe, conquered the balkans and attacked Austria wich ended arround 1683..(short version)
the answer came with the european colonisation of asia and the midlle-east wich many claim ended by 2ww. The answer too this is what we experience today..(that is not defending the crusades but wieving the entire history as one..if you keep on only taking out little bits and using them as quick arguments its no wonder you dont see the big picture)

The entire islamic retoric used against the USA today is the same used against England and France in the colonial periode..same arguments..same methods..so how can USA be sole responsabel??

and so i hope you understand that there is no reason for all that self-blaiming and shame..the battle between this too basic different civilisations has taken place for centuries and so your american foreign policy might be important but it dosent change the fact that america is only about 200 years old and therfor a very recent player in the long struglle of values.

You think i resembel Hitler but i see it just the other way.
we battled Fascism and nazism, then we battled communism and now we battle the thirth of the ism,that being islamism..
All three totallitarian ideologies who have no respect for human lifes and aim at turning the hole world one way..
if you are against nazism you should strongly resist fundamentalist islam asswell...

You might think that the number of soldiers tells of the devotion of the cause but the fact that you have more soldiers than us might have something to do with our population of 5 mill in total. A small nation yes!! but we still fight for what we believe in and every time a soldier dies everyone is just as affected!!
pulling the number-of-troops-argument is quit narrow man!! (+ our special-forces are not counted along with the officel numbers)

The european mass-immigration and Iraq has this is common that they are both expresions of the global culture-battle/dialog between the two dominating civilisations of the world, and the worse the middle-east is of, the more migration towards the west.. so therfor yes ther is a connection even a very clear one..

I never said ore claimed that islam should be eleminated..What i claim is that we should stop trying too fusion..geographically separate the people who dont like eachothers way of life.
What i claim is the right too enjoy my culture and my freedom knowing that My land will be the same scandinavian paradise for my little son as i grew up in.
I claim it is possible too battle the enemy of extremism on the battlefield asswell as in the discussionforums, the universities and even with your muslim friends..
My muslim friends would never dream of turning danish and i would never convert too islam...we are too different too live together but meeting on mutural ground ( like spearfishing) we can still respect eachother, even though their aim is an islamic state and mine is personal freedom..

The ethnic isolation of racial groups in the major cities of the USA is the very thing we try too avoide, therfor it is important that a debate about ethnicity dosent make you a racist!!

if you take 5 hungry people into your home..you can help them..but if you take in 50 hungry people into you home..you dont have enough food ore space..and therfor it will end in an fight..its the same with a country!!
dont hate a man for trying too avoid that fight

The murder of the dutch director was commited after a Fatwa was published for his head..everyone new about it before it happend..but no one believed that any muslim would do it!!

[JEFFDHANAUER]

If Democrats are so sure about a present day dictatorship in america, how can they begin to argue the second ammendment. Just when we need the second ammendnent the most, the democrats surrender it to the evil.

[apnea_complex]

Well, since this thread has re-opened, It's raised a question; What happened to Mikerotch??

[Bill McIntyre]

If Democrats are so sure about a present day dictatorship in america, how can they begin to argue the second ammendment. Just when we need the second ammendnent the most, the democrats surrender it to the evil.

Yeah, we need our guns to shoot any candidates that we don't like who get elected today. That will fix that democracy shit.