View Full Version : Self Critical Analysis/Diver Screw Up Section
09-22-2003, 10:12 AM
This post is made in the spirit of making this board more safety conscious.
Doctors have mortality and morbidity (M & M) conferences where any doctor who had a patient die on him puts his case study up to his colleagues for review and criticism. What is said at the M & M conference is privileged so the offending doctor cannot be sued based on what is said or admitted at the conference. That privilege opens up discussion of what went wrong so the mistake that killed a patient can be recognized and avoided on other patients. The M & M conference, therefore, allows doctors to learn how to be better/safer doctors.
We should have some place on this board for Self Critical Analysis. I know that I have learned from my diving mistakes, and thus become a better/safer diver. I am willing to discuss some of the riskier things I've done, and even put my experiences up for criticism, if the ensuing discussions will help others become better/safer divers.
Scott, what are your thoughts?
09-22-2003, 02:40 PM
I agree with you. While not everyone wants to admit they done some "Over-the-limits" things with possible result of danger to himself, I think this section u talked about is good. I think we need to hear possible scuba related dangers which we might not even realized.
Scuba or freedive spearing is dangerous, we have to accept that but armed with more knowlegde, hopefully we can be a safer diver or at least let other know how it can be made safer
09-22-2003, 03:09 PM
As a kid, I used to learn alot from Skin Diver magazine in a section called "I Learned About Diving From That".
I'm sure we've all had some close calls that would help others learn.
I'm all for it.
09-22-2003, 04:17 PM
After this weekends events I would Love to see some thing of this nature.I have attended many risk seminars and was taught how to deal with situations in the water and out of the water .But NOTHING prepared me for the events that took place at the dock this weekend. If I might suggest to be included in this section , how to deal with the authorities in the event of and accedent and or death and what your legal rights are .
09-22-2003, 04:41 PM
I think it could be a good idea, as long as everyone participating in said section agrees not to jump on anyone's ass when they admit to *****ing up.
It doesn't happen too much on Spearboard, one of the reasons this place is so great, but man, try to share a screw-up on FS and they crucify you for it.
Anyway, like I said, it's a good idea, and most of the people here have great attitudes. If we create a new section, keep in mind that holier-than-thou attitudes when responding to someone having the balls to admit they *****ed up will NOT be tolerated.
09-22-2003, 04:53 PM
I'll post. A couple of years ago I was diving off of Boca. I looked into a fissure on the reef and saw a 15lb dog snapper inside, I couldn't get a shot at him. I would leave, swim around looking for bugs then come back and look. After 45 minutes I finally got a shot into him. The line is tangled in the rocks and I'm trying not to bend my spear. There is a 4 foot moray in there too. I check my gauge and it says 500 psi. I figure I could leave now, get a new tank and come back or take 5 minutes and surface with 250 psi. I chose the latter option. I was on Brighton at 48 feet on top of the reef. I unclip the line from my gun and methodically begin to retrieve the fish, meanwhile two more green morays show up and try to take him away. Once free of the fissure, they come out and I started punching and kicking them with my fins. Nothing I did was in a rush, my breathing was slow and controlled. Just as a locked the dog snapper in my catch bag my regulator pulled real hard. That was it, NO more air. I clipped my gun to my BCD and started to ascend and wind up the flag. Still not able to pull on my reg, started kicking a little harder, nothing yet. Got to 11 feet and bolted for the surface. Waved to the boat and struggled to stay afloat, breathing too hard and coughing up blood to manually inflate my BCD. Just when I was going to dump my wieghts the boats started over and I was helped aboard. I was in pain, out of breath and coughing blood. I asked Captain and passengers how I looked and that I should get out the O2, Capt. said I was fine. Being a close personal friend and mentor I believed him. I laid down a little nauseous and dozed while they made the second dive. On the way back in I drank some water, still not feeling right, kept asking if I looked ok, everyone said yes. I was pale and blue! I called my wife and asked her to meet me at the dock but didn't tell her yet. Capt. Calls her back and says to hurry. Back at dock I helped everyone unload, cleaned and put away my gear waiting for my wife cause by now I definitely didn't feel right and wanted to get checked out at the hospital. Gave my fish to the guys who helped me, (they said it was delicious!) On the way to the hospital I started throwing up, I burst through the doors and demanded O2 which they promptly gave me. From there I got a helicopter ride to St. Mary's Chamber and stayed on O2 for three hours while they called the Chamber crew in (It was Christmas Eve weekend). The Oxygen helped offgas and didn't need the chamber, suffered lung damage from trying to breath on reg. While recuperating I downloaded the dive on my pc. From the moment I ran out of air to surfacing it took me 2 minutes 45 seconds to ascend 48 feet. I thought I was doing things much faster then that and that's weird. I suspect that since I slowed my metabolism so much and was so relaxed that I didn't realize 5 more minutes was actually 10 minutes and the ascent took as long as it did. It's not that I wanted that fish so badly or didn't want to lose my gear. Back then I dove every day and had left stuff on the bottom and retrieved it later. My perception of time slowed down and that's what was odd and led to my helicopter ride.
09-22-2003, 06:03 PM
LMRD: Here is a post from me this am which addresses this subject:
Sheri, you took the words right out of my mouth, and I am already heading in that direction. One of the reasons Spearboard was started was to make us safer divers, and share that kind of information. The bottom line is, while "PADI Style" diving is somewhat dangerous (constant buddy companion, etc.), spearfishing is inherently more dangerous. There are ways to make it safer.
I have personally cocked my bands with 600 psi left thinking, "I'll go ahead and cock, and if I see a big fish I'll just grab the fish and shaft and head up. I can make it." Another example for me personally is shooting fish, solo, 130fsw, no pony, no redundancy, etc. By nature, many who shoot can be like this.
I talked yesterday with a friend and the topic is what we'll be doing differently in the future. You can bet redundant air is one of those things. I am still going to shoot, and shoot aggressivly, but this is a real wake-up call. This young man was competent.
What I was thinking of was an annual Spearboard Carson Young award for the person who contributes the most to the board about safety. I was also thinking about putting up an area exclusively devoted to "Spearfishing Safety", where we can share tips, ideas and opinions.
Let's let some time pass, but after Carson is laid to rest, we'll come up with a way to honor him.
09-23-2003, 10:23 AM
Thanks Scott. My thread actually helped me work out some of the shock/grief that I'm sure we're all feeling.
Spearfishing is so much fun that, in the heat of the hunt, we often forget all those rules that keep us safe. I'm sure that whatever board section you come up with will serve as a repetitive reminder of the things we need to do in the water to keep us safe.
09-23-2003, 04:03 PM
Rob and I just purchased 19cf ponies and will be wearing them on every dive. 40cf on deep dives as we are bad about buddying. We're usually in the same general area, but not in direct contact to aid support in one or two breaths. All of us are having serious conversations about redundancy and partners. I know my "Stupid Things I've done" list will shorten.
09-23-2003, 05:13 PM
A much needed section, thanks Scott.
10-01-2003, 08:07 PM
Long time ago, I free shafted a really big mango in the MG in 137' of water. Mangoes over 11-12# back then. I had around 1000 psi. of air left in an 80 cu. al. tank. No, they didn't have Hp or Lp tanks then or nitrox. The goe with my shaft dropped down in a deep crack out of my reach. I tried snagging my shaft with the muzzle end of my sea hornet for a "few" minutes. My buddy came by and gave me his shaft before heading up. I tried using the flipper/barb of his shaft to snag my shaft and left the end up. Neither of us had a detachable line shaft rig. When I looked at my air computer, I was at 1 min. deco. and 450 psi. I thought just another try and I'll head up. Then, I realized you try again and they'll find you down here dead over a stupid fish. I started for the surface and as I came up my head cleared up better. At that time I wasn't use to diving past 100'. You do seem to build up a tolerance or handle it better after awhile. I did about a 4 min. deco. During the deco, I thought about what I had just done and what would i do different. I set a a no deco rule and 750 psi. min. to head up. I got on the boat and just unscrewed my yoke reg. I didn't even have to purge the reg, cause there wasn't but a few psi. left in the tank. Dving equipment has improved by leaps and bounds thru the years. HP,LP tanks,nitrox,trimix, mixed gas computers etc.. But the rule: Ain't no fish worth your life!!!! Is still the same for me.
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