View Full Version : International Perspective on SCUBA
10-02-2003, 09:31 AM
This is from my coorespondance with the Rabitech guys in South Africa. I thought it was interesting, as we in FL think nothing of shooting fish with tanks. I much prefer freediving, but I am not afraid to put on a tank. Here it is (refering to Southern Open report):
Thanks for the update! I really don't see the point of having spearing comps with scuba as this to me defeats the object! In South Africa, spearing on Scuba is illegal! There is no sport in it, and quite honestly the bubbles scare the fish away.
Funny, you wanna talk about the most controversial subject and the one that will stir up the pot....big time! This is it Scuba vs. Freediving. Lung packers vs. Bubble blowers. This debate has been thrown around before and it has sure riled a few guys up.
Interesting your exchange with the South African boyz. I had a similar one with Tim from Adrenaline Spearfishing Supplies via email this week. He also laughs at the fact that the US allows scuba spearing. All the Brisbane boys and Spearos downunder mainly freedive. It's not allowed in most of the country as well as all of Europe.
Nonetheless, before I ventured to this site, I would have told you that I will never strap on a tank and spear fish. However, I'll now tell you that don't ever say "never" and I can't honestly rule it out. That being said, I'm a traditionalist. I believe it takes away most of the challenge, not the danger as the recent tragedy will attest.
But I do get a kick out of a bunch of "fat" dudes showing off there huge hog fish and thinking to themselves that they are quality spearos. I know guys well beyond 50 years of age that freedive and train/run/swim to stay in shape and have a resting heart rate of 41! Any Tom, Dick, or Harry with a certification can spear a dumb-ass Hog that just turns around to take a look at you.
I'd like to see some Scuba spearos start off freedivng and make the transition. I realize that some love the sport so much that when they can no longer freedive their only option is cylinders.
Before anyone jumps on my case, please realize this is my opinion and observation. In the end, we are all free to do what we please as long as we are careful and don't harm anyone else. As far as tournaments for Scuba, it's all good. A good opportunity to get a bunch of guys together and practice what they enjoy.
Who knows, maybe one day I'll get certified and join them.
10-02-2003, 02:23 PM
Like I said, I will strap on a tank if I need to, but I like the challenge of freediving. I just put that in there for perspective on what the rest of the world thinks. I do laugh at the fat reference, though. I have only been on one spear charter and I had the same impression. The only people I had ever dove with were super-fit Caymanians, and I was like- how do those guys even swim. I think they just float around with the current! No knock on tanks. I could never do what those guys do in the MG's. We are planning a freedive trip to some of the shallower (90-110 feet) spots next summerb in our 27' Cat. I have to get my bottom time working first!
10-02-2003, 04:19 PM
I would turn gay and wear a camo wetsuit before I put on "cylinders".
No offense JC, you are my boy, but that is just the way it goes. Sorry about the camo ref., but I just had to take a shot. Dude, just get a lung transplant from the next stiff who croaks and come out and really play.
Hey, hey guys DO NOT begin to take shots at me, like Veloso stated, it's just MY opinion. Anyway there are too many of you vs. very little of us, so we'll loose.
Bottom line is, whatever tickles your fanny and you enjoy it, so be it. Have fun and don't look back.
10-02-2003, 04:54 PM
Wow, scuba spearing vs. freedive spearing! That's a fresh (yawn) new topic that not been debated (yawn) ad nauseum. I mean everybody knows that the true way to shoot fish is.....................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Wake me up when it's over.
10-02-2003, 06:21 PM
10-03-2003, 07:07 AM
I didn't mean to stir anything up. Like I stated, I swing both ways...in the water. Just thought it was interesting what the rest of the world thinks. Truthfully, outside of the G of M, SCUBA spearing is pretty rare. I thought it was informative, that's all.
Let's just hope they never prohibit scuba spearing in the states, but if they do, it will no doubt have a huge economic impact. Most of the west coast charters cater to predominantly scuba spearos. Not to mention, that about 2/3 of the members of this board will have to look elsewhere for other methods of spearing. It's not totally beyond the realm of a possibility that this may someday occur...let's hope it doesn't.
This is just a reason that most of the scuba spearos should develop there freediving skills as well. I know alot of them do, but it's discourging to see a new guy wanting to get into spearing (even on the East coast) and his first thought is scuba, scuba, scuba. It's crazy, in my opinion. Why not grab a pole spear first or a simple trigger gun and develop some hunting skills first and learn the traits of the species in your area.
I don't know, in the end who gives a shit to each its own. I don't think Rabideath's intention was to stir debate. A relatively new member may not have the time to search and dig up the previous threads discussing this issue...if we can call it an "issue". And if it puts people to sleep, then that's good, we all need a good hypnotic every once in a while.
10-03-2003, 11:08 AM
OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES...WE ALL HAVE ONE AND MOST OF THEM STINK:cool:
You're right, my opinion usually "stinks". Especially after eating Taco Bell Bean Burritos:D
10-03-2003, 01:58 PM
I gotta chime in for a minute as the ASSASIN Aguaji takes shots at my suit and lungs!!!! SHITHEAD!!!!
I have had the best of both worlds and those that know me, know my family and our freediving background. While freediving is considered more athletic and more challenging on a worl wide basis, there is a lot to be said about scuba spear fishing. I remain firm on the fact that I believe it is truly harder to get fish on scuba than it is on apnea. The sounds and the inability to swim as fast when carrying so much gear, makes it so.
I do agree that freediving is much more challenging to the spearo and cant hunt for the length of time a scuba spearo can. It is much harder to freedive and catch fish than it is to scuba and catch fish. While this sounds like a contradiction in fact it really is not. By the way, unknown to many scuba divers, if you can hold your breath for 2 minutes, you can break the 80 foot barrier, linger and take a shot. No problem whatsoever.
I do take exception to the comment that anyone on a tank can go down a dumb hog. You can shoot a dumb hog on a tank or air, same dumb fish that has nothing to do with talent. Now, when it comes to hunting grouper, please dont insult my knowledge of this topic by making a comment that it is much easier to shoot a grouper with a tank instead of without. Please that is just downright dumb. Anyone who has done both will tell you I am right on this. On bubbles, you dont even get a chance to see the majority of grouper since they leave the minute they hear the bubbles. If you can get down and hide for a minute or so in a hot grouper area you can almost come up to them and shoot them at point blank while freediving. Ask aguaji and veloso they can confirm this. How else would a knucklehead like aguaji get 28 blacks in one day!!!!! Yes the assasin would have not seen 28 blacks had he had a tank on.
I am on neither side of this argument as I see both sides, some of the very best freedivers I know have some fat on them too!!! There is no argument from me here, just a couple of observations. While the freediving community makes comments of how easy tank fishing is, they in fact have never done it so how can they make such a bold statement??? They cant. Thats my point. Only a person that has done both can make comparisons. Since I freedove from the age of 7 to well into my 30's I can assure you that now that i have to scuba by doctors orders, I have a clear and objective opinion on this subject. Just like most guys that are on scuba have no grounds to make comments about freediving unless theyve done it first.
Both have their plusses and minuses. How can a guy from Australia say these guys cant dive because they use tanks and therefore are not good hunters???? Give me a f***ing break. Those are just ignorant people. You have to row with the oars god gave you is what i say.
I have had this conversation with many and yes, YAWWWWWN, it is a topic that has been pounded to death. However, I think this input is important as you will find that the majority or people involved in these arguments do one or the other type of diving and therefore can not be unbiased. As for me, if I could I would still be freediving but since I cant I will do what I love and that is to HUNT
Anyone who says a scuba divers are not of equal talent as a freediver where it comes to HUNTING is completely FULL OF SHIT!!! Bank on that!!!
sorry veloso and assasin but i had to chime in,. both of you know my real love is doing it without tanks as you guys are lucky enough to do.
just my .02
10-03-2003, 02:04 PM
Why don't you guys settle this with dive knives at 50 feet?
I stand corrected. You make excellent points and I agree. As I've never done scuba before, I'm probably biased and side with the rest of the international spearos. But as I said in my previous post, I would never of thought about using cylinders while hunting until I came across this board. Your points and others on the web-site have made me change my mind completely.
For me freediving is a way of life. I use it as a motivational tool to stay in shape and it's the basis and drive for staying in tip top form. From pool training routines, to running, swiming. It's just for motivation. I have no real interest on competing, but there is a certain degree of undescribable elation of spearing a fish at an "unearthly" depth all on one deep breath. It's a rush, a feeling that you have challenged nature and briefly won.
Spearfishing is a motivation when I go to the gym, when I squeeze one last rep of a last set, when I surpass three and a half minutes on a static, etc...not sure if this will be there if I would scuba.
I'm not in this with the "weekend warrior" mentality.
Relax, breathe, and dive,
10-03-2003, 03:10 PM
JC, you are my boy, or as you say, BIAAAATCH! lol
1. I know you are a bad azz now with cylinders and I KNOW, that you were stud diving with only a weight belt, a speedo and and an arbelete, back in the days.
2. Can you let me your wet suit when I go up to South Carolina next month so that I could mingle well with the foliage and the cold from the woods? With a get-up like that and my AK47, I'll have no problems killing Bambies one after another.
3. As for the debate between scuba and free, who f*%cken care anymore. As long as you enjoy the ocean and have fun, I don't care if you stick a 10 hp industrial compressor up your azz.
4. I did NOT kill 28 blacks by myself, it was between me and four other crazy Tony Montanas out of Duck Key. We also HAD to kill two Morays that looked like the Lochness Monster.
5. I gotta run, put some spare change on SF and the over and the game is starting now.
p.s. Veloso, I just had lunch at Sushi-Ko today; I took them a 45lb. bluefin loin that was unbelievable. Full of Toro. That place rocks!
10-03-2003, 06:15 PM
You guys are the dawgs of freediving. RJ, nothing is as excilirating as being down over 100 feet and looking at your gauge to see how much time you have left, not because you are in need of a breath but exactly the opposite!!! Man that is the biggest rush in the world bar none. Youre down below the 100 foot mark which anyone that gets that deep is a monster to begin with, then the feeling of "SHIT I DONT NEED AIR WHATS GOING ON?" you look at your time and youve been stalking for 2 minutes and DONT need to breath but you decide to shoot up to avoid a BO. There is absolutely no feeling compared to that one. I am sure you know what Im saying. You just dont have a need to breathe and youre 100 feet down!!! Damn thats nuts I miss it.
Im doing the hole in the wall sat morning, lets see if we can get together with the assasin even if for some cuban coffee somewhere. Assasin, you can borrow any of my gear any time my brother.
10-03-2003, 10:06 PM
Excellent posts.I couldnt agree with you more concerning this debate between freedivers vs scuba divers.
I am one of those rare people who does a lot of both.
I get very pissed off when someone i know makes derogatory comments concerning one type of diving vs the other.
I believe it is ignorant to think that one type of diving is somehow " better " than the other.
I like to think of my skills as a freediver and my skills as a scuba diver are like "tools".
Just like a carpenter may use several different "tools" to build something, I use different "tools" to get fish.
I have had two different trips this past year that will illustrate my point.
One trip I went with 3 of my friends who are very good tank spearfisherman.We went to an area that had very clean water and very spooky fish.I was the only one who was able to freedive.
At the end of the day we had our twenty fish limit of grouper in the boat.The three scuba guys combined had put 4 grouper in the cooler and I had put 16 grouper in the cooler freediving only.
On a different trip to the same general area with several of my freediving friends we had a very different result. The conditions were quite different this day.The vis was very poor.the current was running very strong,and it was fairly deep. Our plan was to freedive all day but I had brought one tank,"just in case".
It was a good thing I did because I was the only one to put fish on the boat that day by "scuba diving". Even if the conditions had been better it would have been very difficult to put fish in the boat freediving, as all the grouper were deep in the rocks and I had to drag out every one I had shot.
My point is that we should respect both types of hunting as it takes unique skills to excell at either one.
I know that in other countrys it is looked down on here in this country that we are allowed to take fish while scuba diving.
The problem is the people who look down on it have never done it, and seen how difficult it actually is .
10-03-2003, 10:38 PM
Better than I could say it!!! Excellent post Capt Rich. That should be all that needs to be said here as far as I am concerned.
That post says it all.
"SOMETIMES ITS NOT THE ARROW, BUT THE INDIAN"
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