Poles are fine, but I want a sling!

[Chad Carney]

Happy B-day Stephen!

Your enthusiasm for pole spears is obviously infectious. This whole section is all about polespears.

I have used quite a few over the years and own 2 but I far prefer a sling in clear water.

I'm jones'n to get back to the Bahamas and do some slinging again soon. Last time I was there I only shot video and photos of the other slingers... of course it was an opportunity I could not pass up, since the others included Art Pinder and Sheri Daye!

It's the freeshaft aspect of slinging that I like. I find I have increased range and accuracy.

I've been working out a lot and plan on trying one of Art's famous double banded slings pretty soon.

Chad

[T2K]

Hey Chad, first off I stopped by your shop awhile back and it was nice. I am interested in getting a sling and trying it out. Any suggestions on what to look for? Do you think I could make one myself easily?

[OceanEd]

Chad:

Thanks for the kind thoughts. Had a great birthday. Since it was the opening day of lobster season it was a "no brainer" what to do. A couple of 20 lb. gags came home with me, but the lobster were few and far between out of Sebastian.

Sounds like you are infected with slingitius. Very hard to cure once you are diagnosed.

There is no question you have more range with a sling than a pole spear, expecially if you use a double band. What diameter rubber will you use?

This may sound crazy, but I wonder if there would be a way to make a compound shooter for a sling instead of using two rubbers?

I have to admit that I never really learned how to use a sling. I have always used a pole.

We can both agree that the Bahamas is the place to be be. I can't wait to get back down there in November.

[Chad Carney]

T2K, you can easily make a sling. (But I'm not that Chad.)

After diving with Art and some of his buddies I found out that the old style wood slings had many advantages over the "new improved" models. Most of the new ones were made to sell by companies... not by experienced slingers.

I video taped Art teaching Sheri how to use a sling, which included tearing one down and rewrapping it to match her reach. I showed that video in my booth at the Blue Wild Expo and found that many people were interested in slings. I'm thinking about polishing up that video and making it available.

The spears are as important as the sling itself. You need the right diameter and length for your arm strength. They are available in 1/4", 9/32" & 5/16" and from 48" to 72" long. 9/32" x 60" is a pretty good average.

Stephen, I'll have to research the rubber diameter, but I know all of my slings had the heaviest rubber I've seen available for any sling or pole. You probably know the size off the top of your head. If I can't handle double bands I'll just have to keep working out until I can.

Look at the difference in Art's sling on the left, and his cousin Charlie's on the right. This photo was of the Florida team in the 1953 CA Nationals, where Art won the AAU Helms Athlete of the Year Award.

Chad

[OceanEd]

Chad:

The Bahamians I dive with each winter also use different lengths of shafts as well as different diameter shafts, depending on what they are hunting. I would love to know where the people in the Bahamas get their shafts and what the metal is that they are using. Every person I know who spends time in the Bahamas swears that the shafts they buy there hold up much better then the ones they get in the states.

You might not agree with this, but I still think a shaft with a double flopper would be better than one witn only one flopper.

It looks like Charlie has opted for the larger diameter and longer sling as opposed to Art's smaller diameter, 2 bands, and a shorter pull.

Don't think in terms of the rubber that is available for slings and poles. Usually this rubber has relatively thin walls and a large hole in the center as compared to the rubber used for spear guns. I have changed over and am using the 1/2" rubber that would normally be put on a speargun. It has much thicker walls and only a pinhole in the center. This really increases your power. If you are already using this type of rubber, then I would think you are going to have to go down in diameter if you want to use two of these "speargun rubbers".

[cmfish]

The shafts that my Uncle gets over here are just spring stainless steel in 5/16 or 9/32 diameter. I think he just gets them from a local hardware store. They hold up pretty well and I haven't really had one bend on me until this past weekend. I usually prefer the 72'' 5/16 shaft unless I'm shooting under ledges or in a confined space that would require a shorter shaft. As far as the double flopper, I don't think it is necessary as I rarely lose a fish due to it coming off the tip of the spear with a properly tuned flopper. The only real issues I have seen are the fish managing to come off the back end or if the spear doesn't penetrate fully. I think a double flopper might affect your penetrating power too much for it to be worth it, especially on the longer range shots. I also use the 1/2" rubber on my sling but with not quite as small of an ID as speargun rubber. I would be curious to see if using two rubbers with larger IDs would generate more power than one with a smaller ID using the same amount of stretch and load force.

[OceanEd]

CM:

I agree with you about how interesting it would be to find out how to get the maximum power because it would apply to pole spears also.

[Chad Carney]

Stephen,

I don't know of anybody today using a double band sling. I believe the Pinders had a large internal bore similar to the HD rubber we have today. Small bore speagun band material never seemed to have the stretch, but maybe only because most humans can't pull it with just one arm!

I have to agree with cmfish about preferring single floppers, even on guns, but definitely for slings.

I guess I'll just have to experiment.

Chad

[dr.ed]

Here's my .02 years ago i used 5/16" spring steel free shafts in my sling with a single flopper. This was high carbon spring steel and the rust helped keep the fish on. A little work with some emery cloth and wd-40 keeps the rust in check. Still have some of these shafts form the 60's they are in fine shape. High carbon spring steel used to be cheep; havent priced it recently.

[Chad Carney]

dr. ed,

I remember the rusted tines of old paralyzer heads on pole spears helping to keep bugs from escaping, in the Bahamas.

But I'll stick to spring stainless for my sling spears... my old cold rolled shafts got too nasty for my liking.

Chad

[OceanEd]

Chad:

Experimenting is half the fun!

I agree that the speargun rubber does not have enough elasticity to be able to pull it back by hand if you are using a relatively short piece such as you would have on a speargun or even on a shorter pole spear.

My pole spears are 9' to 11' long and I like to make the rubber long so that I get maximum stretch somewhere around 7 feet or more. When using 1/2" dia. rubber, this length allows you to pull it by hand, hold it for the necessary amount of time, and get a lot of power.

Too bad we don't have samples of the rubber that Art and his cousin were using. I keep looking at the picture and I still think his cousin is using longer and a larger diameter rubber. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell what diameter the wall thickness is on that rubber.

I don't think I could hold two of them, though, and would have to really work out the arms before I tried.

[Mattedhead]

OceanEd:Where do you get your 1/2" diameter rubber? I was going to upgrade the rubber on my Gat-ku per your suggestions a month or so ago.

Thanks-
Matt

[OceanEd]

Matt:

I bought it from a local dive store. You could probably order it from Flordia Freedivers. I am sure Mike has it in stock.

[azspearo]

The 1/2" OD speargun tubing that "OceanEd" mentioned he uses has an 1/8" ID.
You can get tubing from McMaster Carr that is made by Primeline. Primeline supplies most of the tubing to speargun manufactures.
Tubing comes in all different ID and OD sizes you should be able to find something you like from McMaster Carr. http://tinyurl.com/2ap92m

[OceanEd]

Aaron:

Thanks for the information.

[joel mcqueen]

after useing a sling for 30 years in the keys and bahamas your are right 1/2 speargun rubber is way to go tied to an ordinary peice of teak or any good hard wood with aluminum socket works best make rubber as long as you like for your draw length have tried every kind of sling you can imageine and plane old wood hanle with 3/8 bored hole 10 inches long works best 5/16 shaft from austins in miami was best shafts i got in the state last trip to andros came back with 3 more shafts than i brought they were 9/32 ok but light for big blacks nothing like stoneing a 20 lb black with a sling you can wrap your own handles easy with a buddy to help and a bench vise to hold the aluminum socket stretch it way out and wrap with braided nylon some of the handles i make are weighted just drill some more 3/8 holes and fill with lead and pour some 5 min epoxy on top any one need help or question let me know

[jfjf]

Joel are you pregnant? You seemed to have missed a number of consecutive periods....

[joel mcqueen]

hey i got through english class by dating the teacher !!!! and she gave me a c+

[Chad Carney]

joel mcq,

It sounds like she might have short changed you on the grades buddy...

From reading between some lack of periods and missing or extra letters, I can still tell that you know your way around a sling.

I have my doubts about using small diameter speargun rubber for a sling as opposed to doubling up the large diameter tubing that Art and his brothers used.

Obviously there is no research to back up my guess other than intuition, but I think I'll start where they left off and see how it goes from there.

Chad

[OceanEd]

Chad:

Half the fun is in the testing.

Joel:

Nice to learn new information.

[T2K]

[QUOTE=Chad Carney;557943]T2K, you can easily make a sling. (But I'm not that Chad.)


Cool. Sorry about that.

[detra]

I recently made a sling with 1/2'' speargun rubber from pvc pipe, haven't tried it yet but I guess the draw at about 60lbs. I have designed something similar to that of hawaiianslings.net for a few dollars in PVC with the rubber pretensioned. I will post a picture soon. For the socket I used a carved 3/4'' hardwood dowel. It seems to me the limit of the sling is the ability to "pinch" the socket and strength of draw. My question is do you guys pinch the socket or put fingers directly on tubing like a bowstring?

[Chad Carney]

I recently made a sling with 1/2'' speargun rubber from pvc pipe, haven't tried it yet but I guess the draw at about 60lbs. I have designed something similar to that of hawaiianslings.net for a few dollars in PVC with the rubber pretensioned. I will post a picture soon. For the socket I used a carved 3/4'' hardwood dowel. It seems to me the limit of the sling is the ability to "pinch" the socket and strength of draw. My question is do you guys pinch the socket or put fingers directly on tubing like a bowstring?

detra,

Glad to hear you made a sling to try out. I think you'll find, as I did, that it's best for a sling to float, since we are using them while freediving. (On scuba that might be different.) After learning many tips from Art Pinder, I prefer the standard wood style.

You do not hold your back hand like when you're shooting a bow, and the retainer does not pinch. The spear stays in place because your thumb and forefinger hold it in front of the retainer or socket, while you wrap your remaining fingers around it. This is a very natural hand position and allows good strength and a clean release.

Here's a couple of pics of Art showing the proper hand positions and with his sling ready to fire.

Chad

[joel mcqueen]

i think the reason art used double small rubbers is that was all that was available at the time. remeber they did not make the rubber for spearfishing we are talking about surgical tubing back then .had to use what you could get .:thumps:

[detra]

Thanks for the info. I am with you on the floating idea. Last time out I was switching from polespear to sling, and oops, there goes the sling. Visibility was about 3' and I had no chance of finding it.


I have made a couple of slings like pinders, but was looking for more power and efficiency and safety for shots at striped bass and was intriqued by the pretensioned design of the hawaiianslingsnet design.

For all would be designers, beware. Fooling around with multiple bands I almost seriously injured myself when front part of the sling slipped out of my hand and got me pretty good in the head. If it had hit me in the eye it would have probably been slights out! With multiple bands and gloves required for cold water, I think the pistol grip design is a bit safer.

[Chad Carney]

Slinging in 3' of visibility doesn't sound like a good match... I think I'd rather have a pole for that! :D

Chad

[OceanEd]

Chad:

I agree. Seems like a 6 or 7 ft. pole with the rubber cut so that at maximum pull your hand is about 6" to 1 ft. behind the spear tip. I would also use a rubber that I could hold, fully stretched for a decent amount of time so I could dive with the pole cocked a lot of the time. Seems in 3 ft. of vis you would not have a lot of time to spot the fish and then cock and release before he fades away once again.

[detra]

Of course you guys are correct on the visibility. The pole I brought with me had a three prong on it, which would not be capable of holding a striper. I have the sling rigged with a flopper and a short shooting line and figured that it would be the better weapon. Besides, I just made the sling and wanted to try it out...