Wrecks on the inside [ ]

[ScottCarullo]

I'm new to this forum - just ran across it while searching for some powerhead related info. Nice to talk with people in the area who enjoy the same hobby.

I'm curious how many of you actually enter into wrecks to hunt fish. I'm not talking about sticking your head or an arm in there, I'm talking about turning your light on and entering the inside of the wreck. I know there must be some huge fish in there (which may be good and bad), but I've never been motivated enough to go inside. I'm not looking for the 'you should be wreck certified feedback' - I'm looking for a real reason to enter or not enter based on safety from other living sea creatures vs. the stringer when you exit. Also, I use a 357 powerhead and contrary to what some other people have had to say, if you set one off you better have open water on more than one side or you will be ringin'. I think inside a wreck this might be a very bad idea - but then again I'm looking for feedback from experience - any of you know what I'm talking about?

There are lots of wrecks out of canaveral where I dive / fish that have plenty of sq. feet of living room inside...

I try to fish or dive once a week, a bad day is less than 100lbs in the cooler - usually much more. There is always more to learn and I have already learned about how to treat a shark (in a post here) in the event a large one gets aggressive towards you (never happened yet). Its more comforting to hear from experience rather than what the 'expert scientist' say - the same guys who say sharks are endangered. When you can drive anywhere out in the ocean withing a 50 mile radius and drop your bait and catch a shark in less than 60 seconds there is a problem - and its not a shortage or sharks!

Thanks in advance for your feedback & experiences....

Scott

[Divin' fool]

I won't enter a wreck unless it's clean and clear...and then only a few feet. I have heard horror stories from guys that shoot fish inside and then the silt gets really bad......then they can't figure out which way is out. Maybe I'm a puss, but I still believe that "Discretion is the better part of valor".

100 pounds a trip?......Don't think I'd mention that on the FS forum:D .

[Steel Shootin']

About a week ago I was thinking about posting the exact same question, and then it slipped my mind. I'll look forward to the responses. At this point, I wouldn't enter a wreck or do any other penetration diving due to the silt out issue mentioned above. Also, I'm not equiped with the kind of lights or reels necessary. Finally, that kind of diving would ALWAYS have to include a buddy.

Interesting question though. You beat me to it.

Welcome to the forum.

[moved to general spearfishing]

[ScottCarullo]

Hmmm... yeah, if it had silt that would definately be a concern, I don't think anyone wants anything over their head that they can't se when they are diving, especially with deep sea creatures around :) I know my blins diving friend doesn't like me to take him under anything in case he needs to ascend alone.

Why wouldn't you mention what your average catch was, whether its skunked or 1000lbs a trip. Four grouper are usually about 100lbs or better unless they are small ones. If you can go diving and be selective why shoot the small ones?

Back to the silt. There are several wrecks that are penatrable over here, anywhere from 70 feet deep to 300 feet. I'd say the ones I was curious about are probably about 90-140 range. They are out in the middle of miles of sand, so I'm not sure I'd qualify the stuff in the wreck as silt, maybe thats why I hadn't considered silt being a problem. Its just sand? It gets so rough over here and the tide is anywhere from non-existent to 4-5 knots worst case. I'm not sure silt could accumulate under such conditions.

If I dove with someone I'd feel safer about entering some of the larger interior areas, like 20' x 20' x 15' rooms with a 8'x8' opening at the top. There are several barges that fit that example. Maybe my puny flashlight has somehting to do with it too...

I'm designing a powerhead / point combination so I can kill the fish with the ph and pull it out with the point all in one shot. I hate the shots I have to give up because I don't think I'd be able to get the fish out.


Scott

[swimndive]

I do a fair amount of cave and wreck diving and although I have done this on occaision, I wouldn't recommend it in general. Even if the wreck appears clean going in, you may turn to exit with your catch only to learn the hard way about ceiling percolation. It's caused by your exhaust bubbles as they hit the ceiling and dislodge rust and crud from the steel plates. This can vary from big chunks to a fine cloud and can really ruin your day.

ScottC. I see your from Rockledge...Do you know a diver named Curtis Baldwin? He has a strange hobby that sometimes shows up on ESPN. He's a guy you can go into a wreck with and he'll also handle all your shark problems bare handed. ed

[slipknot]

SCOTT:C
i am interested in this powerhead/point deal you are designing.could you elaborate on its designed & how it works?are you some sort of machinist?just curious.

[ScottCarullo]

I never considered ceiling percolation... I guess thats why they have people that teach you about this stuff :) Stuff like that is bad to learn the hard way!

There is always more to learn.

The PH/point integrated killing and retrieval system (Picars) Yeah just made that up... anyway here is my ultimate killing machine. And here's a photo of part of it just to keep things interesting :cool:

http://fish.softtech.net/fish/ph1.jpg http://fish.softtech.net/fish/ph2.jpg

Now, imagine 3 points protruding past the end of this by less than an inch. Just enough to drag my dead fish back to me. I'm not sure on the specifics because I'm still testing. Several different ways to attach points I'm still thinking about it before I committ time to building the rest.

I like my design because I can switch barrels / thus calibers during a dive. Plus, I can load/unload this as fast or faster than any other design I've ever seen.

Any comments anyone has on what might work/not work are welcome.

Scott

[Brad B]

Hey Scott, in case you aren't really familiar with the FS Forum they will rag on ya like a woman on her monthlies if you kill more fish than you and 1.25 people can eat that night.God forbid that you might have a large family(like me), not get out as often as you might like(like me) or know how to freeze fish so that they are great 6 months later(like me).I will say that if you consider 100 lbs a mediocre day, considering our East Coast limits of 2 grouper and 2 red snapper you gotta be poppin some real hosses.The great thing about this board is that nobody is gonna give you shit cause you shot some fish.

[seastalker]

Welcome Scott...your Picars sounds very similar to what some freedivers use with a slip tip. The slip tip has a nail gun charge to push the slip tip in the fish further once it intially makes contact........

I surprized you use that 'thumb buster" powerhead. If it's the one I think it is, it has no spring and is a compression type fitting with o-rings....ever have problem with it firing to early? But have to aggree is loads much faster than a screw type.......I'm just always nervous when loading knowing if I inset to hard it could discharge or if I load a shell and then slam be shaft into the trigger when loading it could also discharge....

Brad you have not had the oppertunity yet to shoot your limit of go's... there is easly 25 pounds of fish per person....throw in a grouper, jack, reds and welcome to the east coast....:D

I promise next trip to hold you a seat.......;)

[dothanfrogman]

Scott you sure do let a lot of shit slip from your mind.

I agree with the silt up my nuts aint that brassy yet.

[Divin' fool]

Ditto on what Brad B said...

[Brad B]

Hey Sea Stalker, I am locked,cocked and ready to rock on some of those big Ponce mommas.Had a good time shooting those little west Coasters too.Hell I like anything at all that involves poking holes in fish.You know we are on our ten day count down for the Middle Grounds as of today.Dayyum I hope Mother Nature doesn't screw us over again.

[Capt.Gene]

About 1978 or 1980 I was with a buddy who wanted to powerhead a jew fish (Sorry, they will never be goliath grouper to me).
Inside a barge on Pasco#1 artifical reef, Pat let the shaft w/ powerhead fly out of his JBL Mag450. The big jew was about 15' away.
I didn't hear any bang until the fish hit the inside of the barge.
Then Pat's gun hit me on the head as it went by. I'm probably lucky the cable didn't cut off my head. I can still hear the 3/8" shaft slapping the uprights of the inside of the barge as the 500#or so jewfish hit several small openings in the barge, looking for an exit. Then things got hairy!
All the silt on the deck above us and inside the barge cut visability down to less than 1 foot. In less than 15 seconds we couldn't see the jew. Or an exit.
We could feel the current as the fish swam by pounding into place after place inside the barge, trying to get out. Dragging the JBL gun, with about 15' of 1000# ss cable, around in circles inside the small barge.
I had visions of being A) impaled by the shaft, B) Getting run over by the Jewfish, or C) having the cable catch me.
Things got quiet, and in a few minutes it started to brighten up a little, and we both exited out through the ribs above us.
We came back later and recovered Pat's gun, shaft and powerhead.
The 3/8" shaft was bent to shit. The gun was bent at a 45 degree angle, with twish for good measure.
The safety clevice pin was still in the powerhead.
Now I only shoot little fish in wrecks.

[greyface]

:eek: Holy shit! Ever let him live that down?!:eek:

[BobK]

Hey Scott !
I am a beginning spearfisher and am trying to learn spearfishing out of Pt. Canaveral. I have a boat and have been fishing there for years. If you're looking for company to the wrecks, I'd be willing to give it a try.

BTW, it's fairly customary to run a guideline into a wreck. That way you can find your way out once you silt it up, and provided the fish doesn't kill you ;-)

[swimndive]

Bob,
Ever tried running a reel, holding a light and shooting a fish, all at the same time? Even if your buddy helps out, a poorly shot fish on a lineshaft could cancel that safety line in a hearbeat.

Cave divers are fond of saying "There ain't nothin' in there worth dieing for." If you have the training then you know how to make this work. If you don't have the training, please don't try it. I'm not trying to bust your ass or anything, but I've seen people get killed doing stuff like this, even after they had been warned. It tends to create a bad public image, one that the rest of the divers are stuck dealing with. ed

[ScottCarullo]

Hey Bob, I wouldn't mind talking to you more about stuff, send me a PM with your email we can go from there.

Yeah, I'm on the fence about the wreck penetration. The one guy mentioned ceiling percolation - I would have never thought about that. There is probably lots of other things I haven't considered too & I don't intend to figure things out the hard way - most people don't!!

I actually asked the guy I dive with all the time if he entered the particular wreck I had in mind and he said he had several times, swimming through dark passageways to rooms full of fish - the hidden treasure. He said you had to be careful not to stir things up though, there was silt and stuff.

I think I'll stay out of that wreck for now. I would enter some of the large barges though that have the doors off the storage compartments so about 50-75% of the top of the rooms is open, seems relatively safe except for ph detonation which might ring your ears for a minute :)

Scott

[swimndive]

Wearing a good hood helps keep your ears from ringing if you're giving 'em a dose of heavy metal. ed

[Divin' fool]

I'm no wreck diver, but from talking with those that do it regularly....they DON'T use a guide line. They prefer to "get to know" the wreck well before they enter....then they enter and get familiar with each room. A person can tangle in a guideline or worse if the line gets cut somewhere.
Just a thought.

[BobK]

Like most stuff in diving, there are different schools of thought about wreck familiarity vs guidelines. Used to be that no one used guidelines on wrecks, and many divers still hate the concept. They are of the school that you learned the wreck slowly and completely, never venturing very far until you were familiar with the wreck up to the current point. But over the past few years, I've heard of many more divers using guideline than not. Used with care, it is an outstanding safety tool and doesn't require lots of familiarity dives on a particular wreck to get somewhere. And back :-)

As far as speafishing with a guideline, that's probably a bit more iffy. As pointed out, it is pretty task intensive, and there is the risk of entangling the fish, your gun, yourself, or all three in the guideline. But, there are always exceptions to everything, so I wouldn't say it's never done. I think it's probably safer to freeshaft in this particular instance, but the risk of losing the shaft is obviously much higher.

Since I'm relatively new at spearfishing, I doubt I'd do it at this point.

[ScottCarullo]

I can tell you this...

I almost died once in a cave dive where we had no line and penetrated well beyond where we should have gone (croaker hole which was very cool). I thought I was going to die - period.

I will never assume I know the inside of a wreck or cavern again - thats a very dangerous assumption considering I've gotten lost in both witout being in the water...

If I can see daylight fairly easily, then no line is necessary and if things get stirred up I'm outta there. If I penetrate past an easy visible exit, I'd have to have a line of some sort. You may think you learned the first few rooms then the crap stirs up and you feel like a pogy in a bucket with red lips :D

I'd rather be smart than brave while my life is at risk....

Scott