Polespear grip idea

[calla969]

I have a hard time holding my polespear with heavy duty bands, especially when is is cold or I am tired. I have tried all kinds of things , but nothing has really fit the bill. I think I've finally found the answer. This grip is made of mason's string tied with a series of very tight half hitches. I haven't even had it in the water yet, so maybe another type of string will work better, but I think this idea will work well.

[IRONHEAD]

if that doesn't hold up you can do the same thing with cloth tape that you use on a hockey stick. you can roll the tape inside out to make a roll of sticky to resemble the rope. you put that on the polespear first then cover with one or 2 layers of tape over the rolled tape. if that makes any sense and it will look just like what you have in those pics only done with a cloth tape, I am sure it would work well.

[ShootIt]

Man that looks really nice! I just got tired of swimming with mine loaded and so I just don't jack the bands back until just before firing.

[NOTANX]

calla, i use the same system that you have made except, i cover it with stretch and seal. i swim with mine "cocked" all day with no problem. i have made several of these for people and they are happy with it.

[GhostWhite]

shootin 93 henley and i struggle to even hold the pole loaded even just before attempting a shot not to mention spookin the fish when trying to load after pickin him out. how are you gripping them to where you can hold it loaded all day?

[Man-O-War]

shootin 93 henley and i struggle to even hold the pole loaded even just before attempting a shot not to mention spookin the fish when trying to load after pickin him out. how are you gripping them to where you can hold it loaded all day?

The spiral wire helps you hold it loaded with 1/2 the effort, since you dont need to physically squeeze the body of the polespear. Your fingers are just kinda wedged against the spiral grip, and its easy to hold on to

[njspearo]

that is looking real nice, tell us how it works out!

[calla969]

if that doesn't hold up you can do the same thing with cloth tape that you use on a hockey stick. you can roll the tape inside out to make a roll of sticky to resemble the rope. you put that on the polespear first then cover with one or 2 layers of tape over the rolled tape. if that makes any sense and it will look just like what you have in those pics only done with a cloth tape, I am sure it would work well.

I would imagine that would work too, but that's not the same idea as what I've done. The spiral part of the wrap is actually made up of one half hitch per wrap. Essentially you have a knot every revolution pulled as tight as I could get it with a gloved hand. I have tried using the stretch and seal tape by itself, stretch and seal with heat shrink on the ends, and heat shrink by itself. All of these options either rolled back on itself, slid down the polespear, or simply got shredded by the rocks. I'm hoping that this idea is more durable. I'm sure that it won't slip or roll back on itself as long as the string I used doesn't stretch when it gets wet. I like Notanx idea of putting the stretch and seal over the wrap, but I think heatshrink may look and hold up better so I might try that. Thanks for all the comments. If anyone has any other ideas or criticisms, please share.

[azspearo]

calla969,
Nice job on your wrap. One way you can see if it works is to get the grip wet and try it out before you take it diving. If it is too slippery try another glove.

It it doesn't work out you can put some amalgamating tape over it. It is the best type of material I have used and I have used them all over tha last 25yrs. With the right glove I can hold the spear easily throughout the entire dive.
You can pick this tape up on the cheap at Home Depot,around 3$ a roll.

From experience, you will have to have a rubbery/sticky glove for you to get a good grip on your wrap..
Is that a Odor spear your wrap is on? My website has a picture of how I wrap my spears.

[calla969]

It is an Odor spear, and I have tried the amalgamating tape. I like it for a dive or two, but it gets shredded too easily. I spear around bridges a lot and the fish often get caught between two pilings and go crazy. I am in vis that I consider good if I can see my hand extended in front of my face, so I use the Ray Odor polespear with only the front and rear sections. This puts the grip right in the worst place. I use the blue latex Atlas gloves because they seem to have the best grip. I can usually hold the spear fine, I just run into problems after a couple hours or when I'm in really cold water.

[SnpperWhisperer]

How much power are you holding out there, in KG or pounds ??

[calla969]

I measured it a while ago and I think it was around 28 lbs, but I'm not sure. I'll check again when I get home on Monday.

[azspearo]

Just got back in from measuring the force on my 6' spears sling.
It was 36lbs at the beginning of the grip and 22" further up the pole it was at 64lbs. This is my extra power sling and most don't like it.
I have used 1/2" speargun tubing on my spears for that 70-85lbs pull. I have found this is over kill on the fish I hunt.
This June I'm taking a trip out to the upper Channel Islands and part of the time I plan to hunt WSB with my polespear. I'll be rigging the 15' spear with this tubing.

[oceancurls]

do what you just did with the rope but where you went around do that one more time the key after is to wrap it tight with elictical tape after that you are set but don't just make one make two so you hand has a place to rest when your not ready to shoot. You friend will be happy as well you didn't slip and shoot him in the back of the head. ha ha also use a light glove with this system and you will never go back. :thumps:

[SnpperWhisperer]

Wicked stuff AZ spearo. Can't wait to hear how you go on the WSB. Has there been any hot WSB action with poles before? A mate had some dives chasing them recently in California (not with a pole) and said they were hard to get close to, no doubt why you are taking a 15 footer! One day I'll have to have a go over there. Might head to Sydney for some practise on the 'jewfish' which seem like pretty much the same thing, first. I'm waiting for a call from my old dive buddy over there to hear when they are around.
Interesting to see how much you are powering up your spears too mate, 60 pounds plus? Wow. I must rip off the grip tape from my pole and re-rig it like you do yours. Do you just use a piece of monofilament under the grip tape to get the ribbed effect?

FYI, during the Christmas break I got all excited on a windy day and measured the stats on the 3 poles I had handy:

3-prong from Hawaii: Graphite & 12mm (or 1/2") aluminium section, 0.66 kg weight (1.45 lb), LOA 2.45m (8'), rubber 1.2m long 10mm diameter pulls 2.4 x to 1.55m draw length at 10.7 kg (23.5 lb) power

Manny Puig Spear: Aluminium approx 22mm/8mm spring stainless LOA 2.55m (8'4"), 1.5 kg weight (3.3 lb), 1.16 m of rubber at 14mm diameter stretches 2.4 x at 1.4m draw length to 18 kg (40 lb) power.

Also, I am trialling a spear from Gary Fisher made locally: 12mm (1/2") Fibreglass with short stainless tip section (similar length to AZ spearo's spears) weight 1 kg (2.2 lb) LOA 2.95m (9'8"), powered with standard 10mm pole spear rubber at 80cm length, stretch is 2.6 x to 1.25 m draw giving 12.1 kg (26.5 lb) of power.

There is some consistency, with most stretching the rubber about 2.5 x on a draw, and power being between 12 and 16 x the weight.

[azspearo]

"Wicked stuff AZ spearo. Can't wait to hear how you go on the WSB. Has there been any hot WSB action with poles before?"

Only hearsay no pictures. This will be a first for me. The 15' spear will be 12' of pole and 3' of shaft and slip tip. I'll have it rigged with a floatline as well. Still haven't figured that part out yet. Do you have any ideas?
OceanED has one of my spears with a total length of 16'. He's going after Wahoo with it in the Bahamas as I type this. Anyone on the board heard from him?

"One day I'll have to have a go over there."

Let the Board know when you do, I bet someone will show you the hot spots.

"Interesting to see how much you are powering up your spears too mate, 60 pounds plus? Wow."

Yea.. it's overkill. It's brutal on the hands after a days worth of diving. I have chronic damage to my shooting hand because of it. Same goes with my sternum because of so many years chest loading spearguns. Most the time I m in the 35-40lbs range.
I've been designing a glove for polespearos it has an extra grippy palm and a gadget that goes from the thumb to the forefinger to spread out the force from the stretched sling.


"I must rip off the grip tape from my pole and re-rig it like you do yours. Do you just use a piece of monofilament under the grip tape to get the ribbed effect?"
I use tuna cord, but you could use any sturdy cord/line/rope that won't rot.

[SnpperWhisperer]

re the float, sounds like you should do as I do - tie a knot in the rubber (ala manny). Get a standard shark clip on a line like you would use on a euro gun and put it on the loop. The knot in the rubber is just a simple granny knot in a double line (make a loop and push the end through it). But, when it is loosely pulled up, drag one of the tight pieces back over the loop to reduce the size of the knot. It could technicaly slip back or forwards, but it never really does because there is no major pressure on the knot either way. I must take some photos and put them on my site.

I am sure that Oceaned will have lots of pelagic info to share on his return, given that he has taken more fire power than our entire NZ Navy with him.

[calla969]

How much power are you holding out there, in KG or pounds ??

I just measured the weight and length of band stretch. I am using a Ray Odor spear with only two sections, which is 47" plus the shaft and tip. I am stretching the band 44" at 32 Lbs.

[thereefgeek]

I've used this splice tape on several things, including my ab gauge/bar grip. It's non vulcanizing so it's easy enough to replace if it gets worn. It sticks to it's self by friction, and I've pryed on some pretty strong abalone and haven't rolled the wraps off. Home-D in the electrical section.

Someone mentioned taping hockey sticks with cloth tape, twisting a length sticky side out and laying that down before over-wrapping with the flat layer. That's how I tape my hockey sticks: http://www.howieshockeytape.com/tips_butt.htm

Here's that rubber tape:

[khill]

I've been playing around with some designs for polespears myself, and being an engineer it is interesting figuring out what design considerations should go into making a good polespear. Anway, on the topic about band force and length, you can play around with this excel sheet I have attached here. For a given band geometry and percentage elongation, it gives you the force you should expect. Of course, different latex has difference moduli, but I've looked at a handful of band brands, and they all seem to be about the same. Also, when playing with the graph, keep in mind the slope of the curve towards the right end. Your work or band potential is the area under the graph, so although you do get more bang by stretching the band more, because of the steep slope (after about 400%) it requires a lot more force to get any useful work out of the band. That wouldn't be much of a concern for guns perhaps, but of course your forearms are only so strong. I band my spears for 350% elongation and my arm never gets tired.
Oh, and snpper I found your site before you joined SB and love reading about your reports, I check it regularly for new pics and updates.

[SnpperWhisperer]

Am I right to assume rubber length is irrelevant and the units for the ID/wall thickness are in inches?

i.e. any 1/2 inch (12.5mm) OD rubber with a wall thickness of say 1/4 inch stretched to 300% will give 29.7 lb of push? And a 0.4 inch (10mm) OD rubber with ID say 0.195 inch and wall 0.1 inch would need to be stretched to 400% to give about the same power (30.7 lb)?

[khill]

Yeah the units are in inches and the elongation is dimensionless. So you'd figure if I have a rubber loop that is 12in. with .25" ID and 0.125" wall thickness then I would have to apply 29.7lbs of force in order to stretch it 300% or 3 feet. So for a 4ft. pole that would put your hand at the end (1ft. unstretched plus the 3ft). I actually banded my 4ft. pole with a 10" band since the curve is still relatively flat up to about 375%-400%.

[azspearo]

khill- Thanks for the spreadsheet. Did you get this from primeline?

Is this calculator for a single piece of tubing or a looped band? If it is for a single band and not a looped band we will need to multiply by 2.

This is very useful info. I'm eagerly waiting for your response, because if it is for a single band I'm spot on with my method of testing band force.

[Dieseldoctor250]

I used to weld an aluminum dowel to the side of my polespear, then I found some big stainless roll pins and I'd drill a few holes accordingly (each for different band strengths) and I could change it out for different conditions. That way when you load the rubbers you can just wrap your index and middle fingers around the pin. But now I just ue a sling because it's better for me.

[fin]

I used to weld an aluminum dowel to the side of my polespear, then I found some big stainless roll pins and I'd drill a few holes accordingly (each for different band strengths) and I could change it out for different conditions. That way when you load the rubbers you can just wrap your index and middle fingers around the pin. But now I just ue a sling because it's better for me.

Do you have any pictures?

[Dieseldoctor250]

I wish I could help you, I'm in Iraq, needless to say I didn't bring my polespear. It's really basic though, 1/4in.x2in. stainless, roll pin, drill a 1/4in. hole all the way through the spear, insert pin so a little hangs out each side. The hardest part is deciding where to drill the holes

[khill]

AZ, yea it is from primeline's website and yes it is for pull of a single band. These ratings are based off of brand new latex though, after some wear the bands won't be as strong. I did some tests with a fish scale, and they seemed fairly accurate. If you want to check with another program, I found this one, but I haven't used it. Seems to do the same thing:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=795380

[Silentspear]

I'm going to try this Idea when I get my Aaron Crist Spear!!!! Sorry to bring up the dead thread. :thumps:

[brad.swells]

damn... you guys are intense.

I wrapped my polespear with cloth medical tape- just like I did when I was a kid with my hockey stick. Compared to you guys, its nothing- but it works pretty good. A spiral down the shaft for some extra grip. Then I put some electrical tape to mark lengths for legal fish. sheesh- i'm such a newbie.