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View Full Version : What happened to Harolf Dean????


bigwill
05-18-2008, 08:03 PM
I watched the majority of the weigh in today, and this guys stringer of fish was incredible, looked to me like he easily was in the top 3. But after the prizes were getting announced, I never once saw him walk up.....WTF Happen..........BW

Btw- He was one of the Cuban Freedivers from Miami....

Reel Nauti
05-18-2008, 10:50 PM
word on the street is,'' cheaters never prosper ''

bigwill
05-18-2008, 10:53 PM
Elaborate ???

westpalmspearo
05-18-2008, 11:28 PM
no suprise there!
did julian dive it he is also a cuban from miami but he doesnt cheat

PV_Spearo
05-19-2008, 01:02 AM
I heard those guys dove the Bahamas last year and didnt get DQ'd.
Maybe they did this year.....

IRONHEAD
05-19-2008, 06:34 AM
I also heard a group got disqualified and that was part of the reason for a delay.

RabiSpear
05-19-2008, 08:50 AM
The delay was BRUTAL. I finished somewhere in the top 20-30 divers and I couldn't bear to sit around waiting any longer no matter what the prizes were. We ended up leaving after being there for about 3.5 hours and there still was no sign of anything happening. If there was cheating going on, I am glad they busted them. It just sucks that everyone else had to sit in the dusty pavillion while they sorted it out.

Mattedhead
05-19-2008, 09:36 AM
Finally busted. For the past 5+ years I have been hearing about this crew poaching in the Bahamas. Seems like MANY people knew what was going on and never spoke up. Glad some light was shed on it.

Man-O-War
05-19-2008, 09:43 AM
Him and his team failed lie detector. Their fish also looked old

snooker
05-19-2008, 09:59 AM
So did anyone take it a step further and question them about using spearguns in the Bahamas so they would be arrested??????

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 10:25 AM
Great job tony!!!!!!I will definatley dive the next tourney now. The whole bahamas guns charge would never happen

RabiSpear
05-19-2008, 11:10 AM
Snooker,
I would question your use of that man-kini. You should be arrested.

anchorman
05-19-2008, 11:16 AM
No man-kini's allowed in Florida waters!

snooker
05-19-2008, 11:26 AM
Hahaha, thanks Blake but the ladies love it.

seahunter49
05-19-2008, 11:28 AM
How do you prove fish were from the Bahamas, did the fish have Bahamian passports?

deepdown
05-19-2008, 11:38 AM
How do you prove fish were from the Bahamas, did the fish have Bahamian passports?

I guess when the fish are beat up, looking a few days old and the divers fail a polygraph.... that's how I guess.

seahunter49
05-19-2008, 11:54 AM
Old looking fish I understand but Polygraph? I thought that was a joke, and still do.

RichT
05-19-2008, 12:37 PM
Old looking fish I understand but Polygraph? I thought that was a joke, and still do.


Why? Do you know of a better way to "out" dirtbag thieves?

diverlen
05-19-2008, 12:53 PM
Old looking fish I understand but Polygraph? I thought that was a joke, and still do.

As RichT said, do you have a better way. And just why do you think a polygraph is a joke? I don't understand.

Tyler Durden
05-19-2008, 12:59 PM
Great job tony!!!!!!I will definatley dive the next tourney now. The whole bahamas guns charge would never happen

Great Job???? Tony has know about this cheating for three years! He kicked the old moderators off because they raised a concern about this EXACT THING! If anything, Tony tried everything he could to sweep this cheating under the rug until it became just too obvious.

seahunter49
05-19-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm just amazed that a lie detector machine is used in a spearfishing tournament. That is a definite indication that there is a problem with the structure of the event. I would never submit to that test whether I cheated or not, its degrading.

Polygraph tests have been proven to be inaccurate. I remember one particular show with Barbara Walters lying and passing the test. There is a reason why they're inadmissible in a court of law.

I don't care about this tournament one way or another so I have no opinion on Harlof getting busted.

RichT
05-19-2008, 01:28 PM
I'm just amazed that a lie detector machine is used in a spearfishing tournament. That is a definite indication that there is a problem with the structure of the event. I would never submit to that test whether I cheated or not, its degrading.

Polygraph tests have been proven to be inaccurate. I remember one particular show with Barbara Walters lying and passing the test. There is a reason why they're inadmissible in a court of law.

I don't care about this tournament one way or another so I have no opinion on Harlof getting busted.


Actually... Some states and federal court judges now accept lie-detector results even though many states ban them outright.

From what Ive read, Its far easier to beat a lie detector test than fail it, which these guys allegedly did.

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 02:12 PM
lie detector machines are used in most big tournaments and by entering the tourny you subject your self to the test
hes a cheater some one close to him told me and its about time he got caught
it was a stupid thing to do especialy a diver of his skill level probably could have scored pretty high without breaking the rules
if he comes to palm beach and does the same thing i will make him eat through a straw for a couple months.......see you guys at the next tourney

diverlen
05-19-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm just amazed that a lie detector machine is used in a spearfishing tournament. That is a definite indication that there is a problem with the structure of the event. I would never submit to that test whether I cheated or not, its degrading.

Polygraph tests have been proven to be inaccurate. I remember one particular show with Barbara Walters lying and passing the test. There is a reason why they're inadmissible in a court of law.

I don't care about this tournament one way or another so I have no opinion on Harlof getting busted.

I imagine that if you cheated, it would be very degrading.;)

kill shot
05-19-2008, 02:17 PM
SO what exactly did he do? Anyone know?

Gamble
05-19-2008, 02:33 PM
The same thing he's done the last two years at least,, him and a few others left early and headed to the Bahamas to shoot fish with guns not slings.

Thank you to those involved in making sure it ended this year.:thumps:

hawgdawg
05-19-2008, 03:08 PM
The format of this tournament is an open invitation to all cheaters. Surprised it took so long for someone to get busted. People cheat in tournaments with much more stringent rules, this one should be a piece of cake for the con artists. I work in aquaculture, and have quite a few cobes in our tanks that could take first place! It is a great tourney with a lot of good people, but to think nobody is going to try to cheat is naive.

float 'n stalk
05-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Snooker,
I would question your use of that man-kini. You should be arrested.

:lol::lol:

biggsy
05-19-2008, 03:23 PM
I work in aquaculture, and have quite a few cobes in our tanks that could take first place! You have 95# cobes swimming around in your tanks? :eek:

hawgdawg
05-19-2008, 03:31 PM
yes

Mattedhead
05-19-2008, 03:39 PM
Hawgdawg, are you at the Marathon FL Facility?

hawgdawg
05-19-2008, 03:47 PM
no comments!

Powerhead
05-19-2008, 04:06 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong. But, in the past didn't one of his Co-divers win the SBO?

Hawgdawg,

Do you work in Grassy Key? I work For the Toppino's in Key West and I'm hoping to get them into Aqua-culture here pretty soon.

They have 4 huge quarry pits that are 60 to 80 feet deep and full of fish already.

Powerhead
05-19-2008, 04:07 PM
NEvermind you don't have to answer that.

Rick

Adelito
05-19-2008, 05:47 PM
lie detector machines are used in most big tournaments and by entering the tourny you subject your self to the test
hes a cheater some one close to him told me and its about time he got caught
it was a stupid thing to do especialy a diver of his skill level probably could have scored pretty high without breaking the rules
if he comes to palm beach and does the same thing i will make him eat through a straw for a couple months.......see you guys at the next tourney

That is a bold statement, and in my opinion has no place in this sport. If your character is such that this is statement could be a likely possibility, i suggested you personally make this statement to the person whom you are making it about. I suggest you dont do the same with me. thank you. safe spearing

settingsteel
05-19-2008, 06:25 PM
The format of this tournament is an open invitation to all cheaters. Surprised it took so long for someone to get busted. People cheat in tournaments with much more stringent rules, this one should be a piece of cake for the con artists. I work in aquaculture, and have quite a few cobes in our tanks that could take first place! It is a great tourney with a lot of good people, but to think nobody is going to try to cheat is naive.

Damn then call me naive (for lack of better terminology...As in Idiot)...I just can't conceive why someone would cheat in a competition. I'm by no means an angel, but when I compete its to challenge myself first then to best others. All this interplays in my conscience and is an intricate part of my psych, that is personally knowing at what level I'm at compared to others on the same field...this inturn fuels me to push to another level, become a better spearo...IMHO I don't think guys/gals are spearing for the $$$ or prizes, but for more or less the same things I just mentioned above, going with that reasoning would steer one into naively thinking "no one cheats at these contests". I won't make an opinion as to HD particular situation, but will say , generally speaking is cheating worth it? The price you pay first to yourself, then the grief one must endure every contest thereafter, would make it a no brainer- DON'T CHEAT- yet it seems people (spearos) do... what ya get out of it...a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff? is it worth it at the end?
From some of the comments I can see how this type of conduct can put a crimp on a contest and the contestants (or would be competitors)
OK that said whats the solution? should each of the competitors have volunteer on the boat monitoring them, or a remote camera filming their each and every step? Truthfully it sux to see this type of BS amongst such a small group of athletes...In this type of community...the price a competitor should pay for cheating should be severe enough to prevent it from ever reoccuring...my 2 centavos

diverlen
05-19-2008, 06:26 PM
Great Job???? Tony has know about this cheating for three years! He kicked the old moderators off because they raised a concern about this EXACT THING! If anything, Tony tried everything he could to sweep this cheating under the rug until it became just too obvious.

Well Tyler, I am sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I think Tony acted reasonably and promptly on this one. IMO, this was a very delicate situation and it appears that it was handled in a very professional manner. Too bad the weighin had to be delayed to take care of a bad situation but it was absolutely necessary. Hopefully, it will be a long time before anything like this occurs again.

hawgdawg
05-19-2008, 06:44 PM
settingsteel, I agree with everything you said, but if you think everybody who competes in tournaments share the same ideas as you, then yes, you are naive.

Slider136
05-19-2008, 06:52 PM
Look at racing, baseball, football. It was only a matter of time that our sport came to this. You kick a dog to many times and he stops coming back. Work with the divers and make the feild fair and they will. And it needs to be brought to the higher level.

As a retired Racer I have seen it all.

Good move Tony!

My $.02.
Slider

Adelito
05-19-2008, 07:01 PM
O in regards to the question of who am I? If my fishing abilities continue to progress you well now soon enough. But like i said, and allow me to use more elementary writing for easier interpretation, if you say it online, make sure to have what it takes to say it in person, if not you should spend your time doing something else more productive. hypocracy should also be spared from this sport.

oto_gc
05-19-2008, 07:38 PM
O in regards to the question of who am I? If my fishing abilities continue to progress you well now soon enough. But like i said, and allow me to use more elementary writing for easier interpretation, if you say it online, make sure to have what it takes to say it in person, if not you should spend your time doing something else more productive. hypocracy should also be spared from this sport.


dude, don't mess with westpalmspearo, just let it be.

sounds like you are some kind of super spearo on the rise? please don't tease us, what can you do? how deep can you shoot? what's your bottom time?

Teh Wicked
05-19-2008, 08:17 PM
Reguarless of any views or perspectives...A cheater was caught, and disqulified. Good riddens!!!

Personally If I was Tony i would make it a point that every tournament this year knew about there actions and they should not be allowed to enter. Cheaters are no different than thieves, they take things from the rightful owners. in this case it would have been a $2,000 chopping spree or a Motorcycle. Instead the rightful owners which was Rob and Ricky Hampton got what they diserved. they worked hard and honestly for there prize.

Tyler Durden
05-19-2008, 08:20 PM
Well Tyler, I am sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I think Tony acted reasonably and promptly on this one.

If 3 years is your definition of "promptly", then what the hell would constitute dragging your feet??? A full decade????

Ask Tony, make him deny it. He was told of EXACTLY this by these EXACT guys over three years ago.

ScottZeagle
05-19-2008, 08:41 PM
If 3 years is your definition of "promptly", then what the hell would constitute dragging your feet??? A full decade????

Ask Tony, make him deny it. He was told of EXACTLY this by these EXACT guys over three years ago.

How many other people have been subject to the cheating rumors? More that Harolf, that is for certain, yet rumors is all they ever were....and many were started more out of jealousy than actual proof, as far as I can tell.

This year someone got caught, based on the additional support tools that Tony brought in. Better late than never, in my opinion.

snooker
05-19-2008, 08:48 PM
O in regards to the question of who am I? If my fishing abilities continue to progress you well now soon enough. But like i said, and allow me to use more elementary writing for easier interpretation, if you say it online, make sure to have what it takes to say it in person, if not you should spend your time doing something else more productive. hypocracy should also be spared from this sport.

By you using elementary writing, did it also require you to use elementary spelling as well???

KEYSKILLER
05-19-2008, 09:07 PM
little off subject but need to know.........:D

what fish did harolf try to weigh?

size/fish/weight

grouperdude
05-19-2008, 09:32 PM
Adelito
I as many board members respect patrick he never has anything bad to say about people that dont deserve it. I agree with patrick. all these years that man STOLE from all the good hearted spear fishermen.that put a great deal of money into these tournies,and play by the rules.. You post on here almost in a defensive manner to Patrick's post. Saying that if he said that to you you would hit him??? YOU cant say you were any better than his post. also you post saying watch out for me. sounds like you have a BIG ego..

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 09:36 PM
i know about harolfs skill as a diver hes no joke but if you want to talk about character or unsportsmanlike actions whats worse than cheating

joey_720
05-19-2008, 09:41 PM
i know about harolfs skill as a diver hes no joke but if you want to talk about character or unsportsmanlike actions whats worse than cheating

dude the entire thing is that ur threatening to f*** the guy up man......its basically u saying that u winning a tourny or trying to win a tourny is more important that a humans health and well being.....it honestly makes no sense

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 09:48 PM
here does this make it better? come on down cheaters if you get caught we will let you off with a dq if it does get by us come on and do it again next year.

bigwill
05-19-2008, 09:51 PM
Keyskiller:

2- 40lb+ Blacks
2- 12-15lb Triggers
2- 8-10lb Hogs
2- 15+ Muttons
1- 70lb AJ

These are all my estimates, I was in line next to Harolf we he was weighing in. I ask one little question and I come back to 4 pages of this... Holy Sh!t !!!

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 09:52 PM
i apologize to anyone i upset,bothered,or caused to get there pantys in a knot.....come to palm beach ill buy you a beer:cowboy:

joey_720
05-19-2008, 09:57 PM
here does this make it better? come on down cheaters if you get caught we will let you off with a dq if it does get by us come on and do it again next year.

hey i dont give a f*** im not the one crying about this shit...so dont come to me with the sarcastic bulls***, cus i dont give 3 f****...ur just hot headed and u think its right to threaten people, and its f****** wrong, bro if u havent realized u can get in alot of sh** for that..... sapingo, pela-pinga

IRONHEAD
05-19-2008, 10:00 PM
Keyskiller:

2- 40lb+ Blacks
2- 12-15lb Triggers
2- 8-10lb Hogs
2- 15+ Muttons
1- 70lb AJ

These are all my estimates, I was in line next to Harolf we he was weighing in. I ask one little question and I come back to 4 pages of this... Holy Sh!t !!!
they were in line next to us too, the fish were impressive but they looked old to me too.

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 10:00 PM
you win

westpalmspearo
05-19-2008, 10:06 PM
listen i know you are down south in that area probably friends with him which is great im sure you will learn alot and he probably feels bad enough about the way shit went down
i just apologized for what i said cant really retract the statement
wouldnt want to either but you guys are absolutley correct it is wrong to harm another person

KEYSKILLER
05-19-2008, 10:13 PM
Keyskiller:

2- 40lb+ Blacks
2- 12-15lb Triggers
2- 8-10lb Hogs
2- 15+ Muttons
1- 70lb AJ

These are all my estimates, I was in line next to Harolf we he was weighing in. I ask one little question and I come back to 4 pages of this... Holy Sh!t !!!

thanks.

blueh2oboy
05-19-2008, 10:14 PM
Dog Snappers I believe. A very difficult combination to pull off within "driving" distance. It is possible no doubt but judging by the reports of the two commercial spearfisherman that were cleaning that area out for the past two weeks it is very unlikely.
Hate for it to happen to anyone but it is absolute BS to cheat in a tournament and it has been going on way too long.
This is not the first time or the last or the only group that cheated yesterday.
You F'ed up. You got caught. A precedent has been set that we aren't going to put up with it anymore.

greekdiver
05-19-2008, 10:29 PM
Cheating is horrible and ruins the sport of competition. Anytime someone will come up with a great legitimate catch, it will always be questioned. Cheating will always exist and should have strict penalties if caught. I'm all for lie detector tests.

Adelito
05-19-2008, 10:54 PM
By you using elementary writing, did it also require you to use elementary spelling as well???

writing on the run....... perhaps spell check should have been used......I like the fact that you took the time to point that out..... i am not messing with anyone..... superspearo????? i only know of one....... Pedro Carbonell.......o and Harolf dean..... Thank you guys for your concerns:thumps:

Adelito
05-19-2008, 11:11 PM
But if any more of westpalmspearo friends would like to take a shot at me, it would be easier if you start a new post......You guys are doing great things for my ego....:thumps:

Adelito
05-19-2008, 11:12 PM
I as many board members respect patrick he never has anything bad about people that dont deserve it. I agree with patrick. all these years that man STOLE from all the good hearted spear fishermen.that put a great deal of money into these tournies,and play by the rules.. You post on here almost in a defensive manner to Patrick's post. Saying that if he said that to you you would hit him??? YOU cant say you were any better than his post. also you post saying watch out for me. sounds like you have a BIG ego..

Do me a favor read it again slowly, maybe ask someone to read it for you.

Mobile Diver
05-19-2008, 11:23 PM
There was a lie detector there?? Where??

The Harolf Dean rumors have been around for a long time. There was never any way to prove them or any sort of cheating. Only a boat observer could do that.

Tony needs to clear all this up. I am sure we will get a thread soon.

settingsteel
05-20-2008, 12:15 AM
settingsteel, I agree with everything you said, but if you think everybody who competes in tournaments share the same ideas as you, then yes, you are naive.

yep then I be...perhaps a new thread....Why do you compete? if not for the reasons I mentioned >or< then why, surely not for the $$$ or at least not primarily for the $$$...its not like one of them Billfish tourny with a 100bangs, which still wouldn't justify one to cheat...I agree with what has been said by a few, lie detectors, boat observers, etc. should all be things to consider if this is something thats going around like Lolita Pantunflas on a Saturday night...:(

diverlen
05-20-2008, 06:01 AM
If 3 years is your definition of "promptly", then what the hell would constitute dragging your feet??? A full decade????

Ask Tony, make him deny it. He was told of EXACTLY this by these EXACT guys over three years ago.

Yes, Tyler, I have heard all of these arguments many times before; however, I stick with my original post. Sometimes, jealousy and animosity are hard things to die.

Bulit7
05-20-2008, 07:51 AM
But if any more of westpalmspearo friends would like to take a shot at me, it would be easier if you start a new post......You guys are doing great things for my ego....:thumps:


Adelito, It is not about you bro. Dude was allegedly caught cheating and exposed. You don't see him here defending himself. Cubans are good people, there are bad apples in every bunch man. You must be Cuban, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you know the guy. Don't take it personally. :beer:

Personally, I think he has done more damage to himself than anyone here could. How embarassing...:rolleyes:

anchorman
05-20-2008, 08:22 AM
People cheat at everything. Its human nature. Glad this guy was caught but this kind of thing happens all the time.

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 08:48 AM
hey i dont give a f*** im not the one crying about this shit...so dont come to me with the sarcastic bulls***, cus i dont give 3 f****...ur just hot headed and u think its right to threaten people, and its f****** wrong, bro if u havent realized u can get in alot of sh** for that..... sapingo, pela-pinga

:lol: You remind me of my Fiance's little yappy lap dog. All 6# of the lil' bastard.

settingsteel
05-20-2008, 09:04 AM
Personally, I think he has done more damage to himself than anyone here could. How embarassing...:rolleyes:

Word!

Johnoly
05-20-2008, 09:13 AM
People cheat at everything. Its human nature.

I hope not.

From the hundreds of spearo's I have met, I'd bet 99.9% are honest. Most won't take the lifetime risk of ruining a solid reputation in the dive community for cheating.

Grin
05-20-2008, 09:15 AM
Lie detector test are involved in many tournaments in Florida and the Bahamas, Caribean and Pacific and anywhere big money tournaments are run. Why would anyone object to this practice / enforcment unless they were a cheater themselves or trying to back up a cheater freind or just a plain moron. Rarly do the test even need to be conducted, but when the possibility is there for any competitor to file a complaint and institute the rule it keeps it clean 100% of the time.
It appears to me that the Spearboard Open is not a big money tournament and for this reason the Lie Detector threat was never thought of at all. But the tournament became huge quick in it's short history, and has many uncommon circumstances that make it a easy target. It also appears to me that this problem was most likely present before Tony had anything to do with the tournament. Maybe not as far as the winners every year, but it appears it worked it's way into some parts of the winners circle last year, and quickly became a serious issue. So for the Tony bashers, it appears it may have taken Tony a year to straighten up what he inherited, as far as this tournament goes. How many different versions of accusations have we heard in the last year here? It appears to me this years situation will be a great stride in the tournaments future. Although it may be late, who's to say what year it would be neccessary to see the unforseen. A unforseen tournament structure issue from day one was fixed as soon as it could be as soon as it appeared.
In reality it appears it worked out perfectly. The same people who were suspected of cheating last year, gave Tony the chance to proove it this year. Otherwise, it would be hearsay and unprooven forever. Although many made this claim last year, the structure of the tournament had no way of dealing with it then.
In the respectable world, who would suspect anyone could be low enough to cheat in a tournament for personal pride and notoritety. Money was not even the object of this torunament of integrity.
Since it's supposed to be a fun tournament (not a money torunament), the Lie Detector thing was just a unforseen neccassary rule. Hindsight shows it needed to be in place from the first day. When you look at the uncharacteristic situation this tournament provides, where you are allowed to hunt one day(anywhere in the USA) then bring in what you caught the next day to weigh, it opens the door and should be no suprise that some thieve took advantage. It just took a few years to work it's way up into a "directly in your face " situation.
Right now I'm going to the 2007 archives to see what this Harold Dean guy, and his teammates, look like, and who they associate with, or who they represent(ed).

anchorman
05-20-2008, 09:21 AM
I hope not.

From the hundreds of spearo's I have met, I'd bet 99.9% are honest. Most won't take the lifetime risk of ruining a solid reputation in the dive community for cheating.

I agree, most people I meet in general are good people. Its the 1%'ers that screw up everything. Sad but very true.

bigwill
05-20-2008, 09:28 AM
There was a lie detector there?? Where??

The Harolf Dean rumors have been around for a long time. There was never any way to prove them or any sort of cheating. Only a boat observer could do that.

Tony needs to clear all this up. I am sure we will get a thread soon.

I hope he (Tony) does shed some light on the situation all of these presumptions are rediculous. I'd like to here from the direct parties involved, I guess wether he cheated or not, any Tourney Harolf or any of the spearos that shoot with him are going question every time now. It just doesn't make sense to me why ( if he did cheat ) someone would go through all that trouble and expense to win the SBO. It's a shame either way, that guys a hell of a spearo and true or false this kinda shit isn't good for the sport. BW

StabbinBoy
05-20-2008, 09:49 AM
I saw the milky eyes as he lifted the fish out of his cooler and onto the table next to us, and thought to myself "This guy has got to be kidding - does he think we're all stupid or WHAT???"

Rumor has it he shot those fish in the Bahamas with a speargun too - further proof that this guy ain't playin with a full deck. It's hard to make the weigh in while you're in a Bahamian prison.

Sadly, our plans to run to the Bahamas were thwarted by those damn cameramen Tony put on our boat, or I just KNOW we'd have taken first place !!! :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Adelito
05-20-2008, 10:17 AM
Adelito, It is not about you bro. Dude was allegedly caught cheating and exposed. You don't see him here defending himself. Cubans are good people, there are bad apples in every bunch man. You must be Cuban, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you know the guy. Don't take it personally. :beer:

Personally, I think he has done more damage to himself than anyone here could. How embarassing...:rolleyes:

Thank you very much, i really appreciate the kind of approach you bring. I did realize the mention of origin in the thread, but decided fishing is what was important here. Believe it or not i have never fished with him, but against him dozens of times, he never stops amazing me. I would not dream and make this argument about me, i am sincerely not good enough. In the tournaments where our spots have coincided i felt like i was watching a video. But again thank you for your statement. I will take your advice, and make it the least personal i can. I am not mad at all, just surprised that no one understands, that this man will most likely be one of the top finishers in the world this year, he is on the world team for a reason. thank you once more, i hope that you mentor many more like you. o and nice f#@$%%* bike, what does it do? i understand if you dont take it all the way........ i did 140 in a hayabusa not to long ago.......... and dont plan on doing it again:eek:

Bulit7
05-20-2008, 10:22 AM
Cool Man!!

She will do 190 or so. I had it up to 170plus once only! I dont want to go to jail!! Also, they are dangerous enough when you obey all the laws, at those speeds it is just asking for trouble! Cheers Bud!!

Adelito
05-20-2008, 10:32 AM
wow!!!! thats a machine..... and the way gas is going i think it will be safer for you to ride, i see more people driving slower....and more bikes on the road..... but one seventy??? no way not for me...... i was at 137 or so and just pumped it that much more, and let her throttle down, very carefully..... 30min later hands were still shaking..

Adelito
05-20-2008, 10:33 AM
wow!!!! thats a machine..... and the way gas is going i think it will be safer for you to ride, i see more people driving slower....and more bikes on the road..... but one seventy??? no way not for me...... i was at 137 or so and just pumped it that much more, and let her throttle down, very carefully..... 30min later hands were still shaking..

fishkillapro
05-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Maybe Harolf Dean cheated this year as well...

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=18084&highlight=harolf

Quetzal
05-20-2008, 10:51 AM
Checking

Quetzal
05-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Is this him?

westpalmspearo
05-20-2008, 11:06 AM
yes it is

joey_720
05-20-2008, 11:09 AM
:lol: You remind me of my Fiance's little yappy lap dog. All 6# of the lil' bastard.

damn ur fiance has a dog that talks 0_0 holy shit u should put it out there so the world could see... hebetudinous runs thick in ur family blood right?...or either ur talking about yourself with ur constant yehaaaa's and s***, because god knows your the little bitch(female dog) sitting on her lap
....what you are doing is called a dicto simpliciter , in other words a stupid generalization... i dont understand y u stick ur nose in other peoples s***, I was making my point thats all ......your probably one of these ass***** that have a fallacy that ur always right, you are not always right, you are just a feeble minded creature.

joey_720
05-20-2008, 11:21 AM
just wondering u guys dont think that there were any other teams that cheated? cus i am pretty sure there had to have been quite a few teams that did.

BigMako
05-20-2008, 11:30 AM
God, I hope not! In my opinion, when you cheat at an athletic event, you are lying to yourself. How much satisfaction could possibly be had looking at a trophy and knowing how it was obtained. To me , it seems pointless. Not to mention, in this tight knit community, you will forever be branded a cheater. I wouldn't sponsor a known cheater for anything. I don't think that there's a recovery from cheating of this magnitude. Fame is fleeting, but poor sportsmanship lasts forever. What a shame.

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 11:31 AM
damn ur fiance has a dog that talks 0_0 holy shit u should put it out there so the world could see... hebetudinous runs thick in ur family blood right?...or either ur talking about yourself with ur constant yehaaaa's and s***, because god knows your the little bitch(female dog) sitting on her lap
....what you are doing is called a dicto simpliciter , in other words a stupid generalization... i dont understand y u stick ur nose in other peoples s***, I was making my point thats all ......your probably one of these ass***** that have a fallacy that ur always right, you are not always right, you are just a feeble minded creature.

You are an angry little guy aren't you!?! Take a few deep breaths, relax and understand it's not personal it's the internet.

If you are (translated ur) going to use a spurious psychological reference, at least use the correct noun rather than the adjective... i.e Hebetude. Big words/Latin references only go so far in convincing people of your intelligence; however, when used incorrectly are far more effective at revealing your ignorance.

I appreciate you taking time out of your school day, my feeble mind has been sufficiently entertained.

anchorman
05-20-2008, 11:34 AM
I know a bern when I see one.

Quetzal
05-20-2008, 11:37 AM
What did he win last year?

takowill
05-20-2008, 11:40 AM
What did he win last year?

Don't know... But he won the freediving category of the SBO in 2005

joey_720
05-20-2008, 11:40 AM
God, I hope not! In my opinion, when you cheat at an athletic event, you are lying to yourself. How much satisfaction could possibly be had looking at a trophy and knowing how it was obtained. To me , it seems pointless. Not to mention, in this tight knit community, you will forever be branded a cheater. I wouldn't sponsor a known cheater for anything. I don't think that there's a recovery from cheating of this magnitude. Fame is fleeting, but poor sportsmanship lasts forever. What a shame.


thats something to hope for but in reality do u think that no one else in the tournament was cheating...the thing is that they just didnt get caught.

joey_720
05-20-2008, 11:52 AM
You are an angry little guy aren't you!?! Take a few deep breaths, relax and understand it's not personal it's the internet.

If you are (translated ur) going to use a spurious psychological reference, at least use the correct noun rather than the adjective... i.e Hebetude. Big words/Latin references only go so far in convincing people of your intelligence; however, when used incorrectly are far more effective at revealing your ignorance.

I appreciate you taking time out of your school day, my feeble mind has been sufficiently entertained.


yeah you are right its the internet but i take it personal when people talk trash, wouldnt you....and yeah that "ur" slipped in because that is how i write on the internet get through stuff faster.... yet that still does not give you any right to disrespect anyone on this board or anyone in life period. One day you are going to cross the wrong person and say the wrong s*** and you are going to regret it...and dont take it as it being me because i dont believe in doing something stupid out of anger....so if ur mother did not teach you this when you were younger I will take time out of my school and teach you 2 things; one speak only when spoken too, and the second is think about what you are going to say before you say it.

BigMako
05-20-2008, 11:56 AM
joey720
Do I think that half the people I know and fish with are cheaters? No! Would I like to think that most spearfishermen are cheaters? No! I'm sorry you seem to feel that most people cheat. I agree that out of every tournament, there are some cheaters, but I choose not to go through life believing most people are basically cheaters. If I'm wrong, please allow me my fantasy.

joey_720
05-20-2008, 11:59 AM
joey720
Do I think that half the people I know and fish with are cheaters? No! Would I like to think that most spearfishermen are cheaters? No! I'm sorry you seem to feel that most people cheat. I agree that out of every tournament, there are some cheaters, but I choose not to go through life believing most people are basically cheaters. If I'm wrong, please allow me my fantasy.



no no no dude dont take it wrong, im dont think that everyone is cheating, but there were probably people in that tournament which cheated and did not get caught.....I agree the people that i fish with i wouldnt think of them as cheaters and stuff , and i would hope that there are barely any cheaters in the tournament because that would be great, but i was jusat saying do you think that no one else in that tournament cheated?

Quetzal
05-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Who were the other guys on Harolf's boat that also got DQed (I assume that there were others - and if not why?).

sharpshooter
05-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I didn't compete. I went down to Marathon for 4 days and shot a few fish with friends for dinner each night. I'm sorry,that all of you honest shooters had this problem. At my age, I've seen it all. At Ray Odors age, he's seen it 2 or 3 times over. You could start a seperate post on how to cheat. Ex. Hook and line the night before while offshore,combine fish so one shooter has a big stringer,go out thur. & fri. to shoot fish,be at the capt. meeting friday evening for everyone to see you there.Then leave out friday night after the meeting with everyone. Shoot the legal day after you've already been out 2 days ahead of time. The list goes on. Just use your imagination.

biggsy
05-20-2008, 12:39 PM
Who were the other guys on Harolf's boat that also got DQed (I assume that there were others - and if not why?).
All 5 teams members were DQ'd. Boat name was Spetton. I don't remember the names of each team member.

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 01:39 PM
One day you are going to cross the wrong person and say the wrong s*** and you are going to regret it...and dont take it as it being me because i dont believe in doing something stupid out of anger....so if ur mother did not teach you this when you were younger I will take time out of my school and teach you 2 things; one speak only when spoken too, and the second is think about what you are going to say before you say it.

Thanks....:rolleyes:

oto_gc
05-20-2008, 02:04 PM
jeez, is there going to be a thread with official results and a factual explanation of the events?

Here we are 2 days after weigh-ins, where's Tony? where are the tournament weigh-in officials? Is there a battle still going about this that we are not aware of?

RichT
05-20-2008, 02:04 PM
All 5 teams members were DQ'd. Boat name was Spetton. I don't remember the names of each team member.



John,
Thanks for clarifying the situation. I'm a little surprised that there has been no "official" word from the tournament organizer/s as of yet but I have a feeling he/they are going to have to handle this situation very carefully.
I wouldnt be surprised to see lawyers involved in this one.

IMO... the Spearfishing community is relatively small and tight.
What these guys did (blatant and severe cheating in a major tournament possibly including 3 major rule violations) is absolutely unforgivable/stupid and the entire community should be outraged!:mad:

These guys have not only ruined their own reputations forever, but they may have just ruined any new/old sponsorships and any chance to ever represent any club, State, or Country... ever.

Bill McIntyre
05-20-2008, 02:20 PM
If I should ever get too drunk and try to sign up for a big spearfishing tournament, I hope someone will remind me to read this thread.

I feel bad for people who put so much time and effort into organizing a thing like this. They are accused of being too easy on cheaters in the past, and then when they crack down, it results in a happy thread like this.

Its hard to make sense of it all in one reading, but so far here are things that turn me off.

I sense that at least some Cuban Americans are defensive because the presumed cheater is Cuban American.

I see a guy who won't give us his name now, but tells us we will learn it soon enough because he is so frigging good and getting better. Big deal- does that lend weight to his opinion?

I see people threatening physical violence to one another.

I see a guy who can't bother to use capitalization and normal English ("you are" instead of "UR") talking bullshit, or as near as I can tell that's what he is doing, because I can't make myself take the time to read crap from people who can't take the time to write.

A lot of people seem to think they know of widespread cheating in the past. I tend to take a dim view of human nature in the first place, so I'm inclined to believe them. Whenever competition gets big enough in terms of money or prestige, it seems that a significant number will cheat and ruin it for everyone else.

But even if the accusers are wrong, its still a turn off because it just shows what sort of distrust results from competition.

I spearfish for enjoyment. Does anyone enjoy these big tournaments? I don't see much evidence of it here.

capteider
05-20-2008, 02:20 PM
I'm just a ignorant yankee from the northeast so if these question sounds dumb bear with me. don't you have to check in and out with customs or the coast guard if you go to the Bahamas?? I remember something about yellow
" quarinteen" flags having to flown. so would there be a record of some sort? If you avoided proper government "check in" wouldn't you be in major hot water??
I would think with homeland security and drug trafficking that there would be some sort of law and most likely it has sever plenties if broken.
if there are such laws, is it risky?? or is it one of those things that it's easy for someone with local knowledge to avoid??

apnea_complex
05-20-2008, 02:24 PM
If I should ever get too drunk and try to sign up for a big spearfishing tournament, I hope someone will remind me to read this thread.



:stupid::stupid::lol::lol:

westpalmspearo
05-20-2008, 02:25 PM
the bahamian waters are hardly enforced its just to much area to cover and not enough money

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 02:29 PM
Rich-

I agree but I think is much bigger than that. Similar events have taken place in previous years by some of the same people who were DQ'd this weekend. The "behind the scenes" backlash was the largest contributing factor in the fracturing of what was once a tightknit Spearboard community into SB and SFP. This is much larger than tarnishing the reputations of a few divers and the reputation of a tournament...this is a black eye for the entire US Spearfishing community. One or more of these divers is/WAS to be on the US team for the World Championship. Essentially becoming the face of our nation for the freedive/spearo world scene...then this happens. While we have not been taken seriously in the WC's for many years, respect for the US diving community was increasing...how will this be received? How many times has this happened in the past? I have personally heard about this type of thing involving some of the same individuals for the past 5 years. It's sickening. How does something like this continue to occur without coming to light? I'm hoping that the enabling of this type of behaviour in order to not tarnish events has come to an end. Keeping this type of conduct hush-hush does no one any good. What steps can we take to correct this situation? How do we repair this?

I apologize for the stream of conciousness rambling, but I think this is much bigger than many believe...rather than continuing this thread into further name-calling, threats etc...I propose we discuss were to go from here, and ways to help prevent this in the future. For those that feel that this is sensationalized, I suggest you ponder this a bit more.

And Bill I completely understand your anti-comp status. I enter 2 tourneys a year with some friends purely for comraderie and the chance to see many friends whom I rarely get to see, when it gets too competitive, it loses it's meaning for me and is no longer fun.

seahunter49
05-20-2008, 02:44 PM
Bill voiced my thoughts on this issue.

There is a problem with the structure of this spearfishing tournament, maybe all tournaments, too many ways to cheat. Even a "reliable" observer in the boat can't keep track of what happens underwater. Last year was the closest I ever got to a tournament, I was diving off a boat where one person had plans of entering his catch in the SBO. I remember joking that in the next SBO you'll be able to email in pictures of your catch.

The psychology of the cheater is another interesting subject. Some here have said that they don't understand the purpose of cheating since you're cheating yourself in the first place. I'd wager that in their own minds those who allegedly cheated here do not even feel they cheated. Bending the rules is just part of the game to them and getting away with it is the means to an end.

WonderBoy
05-20-2008, 02:45 PM
If I should ever get too drunk and try to sign up for a big spearfishing tournament, I hope someone will remind me to read this thread.

I feel bad for people who put so much time and effort into organizing a thing like this. They are accused of being too easy on cheaters in the past, and then when they crack down, it results in a happy thread like this.

Its hard to make sense of it all in one reading, but so far here are things that turn me off.

I sense that at least some Cuban Americans are defensive because the presumed cheater is Cuban American.

I see a guy who won't give us his name now, but tells us we will learn it soon enough because he is so frigging good and getting better. Big deal- does that lend weight to his opinion?

I see people threatening physical violence to one another.

I see a guy who can't bother to use capitalization and normal English ("you are" instead of "UR") talking bullshit, or as near as I can tell that's what he is doing, because I can't make myself take the time to read crap from people who can't take the time to write.

A lot of people seem to think they know of widespread cheating in the past. I tend to take a dim view of human nature in the first place, so I'm inclined to believe them. Whenever competition gets big enough in terms of money or prestige, it seems that a significant number will cheat and ruin it for everyone else.

But even if the accusers are wrong, its still a turn off because it just shows what sort of distrust results from competition.

I spearfish for enjoyment. Does anyone enjoy these big tournaments? I don't see much evidence of it here.

Bill,

I participated in my first tournament earlier this year. I had been spearfishing for almost a decade. I used to look at spearfishing as just another thing to do underwater. I'm not a meat hunter, I don't go out to fill the freezer. I take the gun along like I take a camera along every once in awhile. If I happen to get a fish or two for dinner, great. If not, no big deal, I still got to go diving. I have friends that judge the day they've had based on the number of fish they bring back. A non-fishy day is a wasted day to them. I don't feel that way. I just like diving. Getting fish is a bonus. That being said, I never had any desire to compete for fear of ruining that pure love of it. I didn't want to feel like if I didn't do well, that the day wasn't as bright. Basically I didn't want to taint diving and spearfishing with adding a point system to it. But I actually had a blast at my first tournament and am looking forward to the next one.
Here are some of my observations:
1) Great comraderie. You get together with all the guys and gals, look at some fish and tell stories of the one that got away (or the oneS that got away in my case...
2) You get to meet people you've only swapped posts and PMs with. To me, that's a very valuable part of a tournament. Yes, you can meet people in other ways too, but tournaments bring people together.
3) You get a shot at some prizes. People work hard to get the sponsors and put a tournament together. It's nice to be able to bring something home. I got an Armor speargun bag at my first tournament. Could I have walked into a dive shop and bought it cheaper than what I spent on the entry fee and gas for the trip? Maybe a little. But that's not what it's about.
4) You get to go diving.
5) The trash talking. It's interesting to see the stuff that gets slung back and forth b/w everyone. For the most part, it's all meant in good fun and everyone gets their pat on the back.

These are just a few of the main observations I made at the first tournament I did. To me, these few already outweight the BS that this cheating thing has brought up. Whenever money or prizes or pride are at stake, people will find a way to cheat. It is an unfortunate aspect of human nature. There are those that want what they cannot or did not earn. Or at least want to take the easy way to it. It's not going to stop me from having fun....

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 02:45 PM
Dan-
I was wondering that myself.

Are these guys sorry they cheated or sorry they got caught.

rjnjupiter
05-20-2008, 02:52 PM
But if any more of westpalmspearo friends would like to take a shot at me, it would be easier if you start a new post......You guys are doing great things for my ego....:thumps:
I think with the tights and the trophy, your ego is getting fed well... by yourself. The point I don't see is are you defending the persons that got caught cheating? Your probably on your Blackberry or I phone so please be brief and pay no attention to punctuation or capitalization.

anchorman
05-20-2008, 02:54 PM
If I should ever get too drunk and try to sign up for a big spearfishing tournament, I hope someone will remind me to read this thread.

I feel bad for people who put so much time and effort into organizing a thing like this. They are accused of being too easy on cheaters in the past, and then when they crack down, it results in a happy thread like this.

Its hard to make sense of it all in one reading, but so far here are things that turn me off.

I sense that at least some Cuban Americans are defensive because the presumed cheater is Cuban American.

I see a guy who won't give us his name now, but tells us we will learn it soon enough because he is so frigging good and getting better. Big deal- does that lend weight to his opinion?

I see people threatening physical violence to one another.

I see a guy who can't bother to use capitalization and normal English ("you are" instead of "UR") talking bullshit, or as near as I can tell that's what he is doing, because I can't make myself take the time to read crap from people who can't take the time to write.

A lot of people seem to think they know of widespread cheating in the past. I tend to take a dim view of human nature in the first place, so I'm inclined to believe them. Whenever competition gets big enough in terms of money or prestige, it seems that a significant number will cheat and ruin it for everyone else.

But even if the accusers are wrong, its still a turn off because it just shows what sort of distrust results from competition.

I spearfish for enjoyment. Does anyone enjoy these big tournaments? I don't see much evidence of it here.

well put

loose_cannon
05-20-2008, 03:12 PM
They deal with breaking the laws (not rules) from the day they started spearfishing, and you can't blame them. Cheating in a spearfishing tournament is most likely a joke to them.


I can understand that...in Cuba.

But this ain't Cuba and it sure ain't a joke. Cheating in a tournament is really no different than stealing gear or otherwise ripping someone off. The perps deserve 100% of the blame and the humiliation that they have brought upon themselves.

They're big boys and made their decision. They lost - f_ck them.

RLG
05-20-2008, 05:04 PM
But if any more of westpalmspearo friends would like to take a shot at me, it would be easier if you start a new post......You guys are doing great things for my ego....:thumps:

I mean I hate westpalmspearo, he sexually harasses me for free stuff all of the time, but for you to say you are a superman spearguy.....look at the mako in my avatar...wrestled him bare-handed with my left eye closed..... can you beat that?

You shouldnt make fun of westpalmspearo anyways. He's Cuban. Not his fault.

westpalmspearo
05-20-2008, 05:11 PM
dick

RLG
05-20-2008, 05:15 PM
Oh now youre calling me names? Shouldnt you say that in Spanish?

StabbinBoy
05-20-2008, 05:39 PM
Fidel Castro has lied to his people, cheated them out of their country and stolen their 'prizes' for 45 years. To survive in that island prison, Cubans have to do things no American can fully comprehend. I've personally seen Cubans lie, cheat and steal because their kids need more than rice and vegetables to eat, or their grandparents need medication for diabetes.

I have nothing but respect for any Cuban who comes to this country and follows our laws, and let me tell you - those are some of the best American citizens we have. They appreciate our freedoms more than many of us do.

I don't know if he was born in Cuba or America, but I seriously doubt whether Senor Dean truly embraces the American way like so many of his countrymen have. What a shame too, because he gets to enjoy spearfishing and he used to be able to compete in the sport we all love here in the greatest country on earth.

Lawn Captain
05-20-2008, 05:57 PM
Was this the guy with the 2 GIANT triggers?

bigwill
05-20-2008, 06:38 PM
Was this the guy with the 2 GIANT triggers?

YES !!

What does the Cuban descendancy have to do with any of this drama??

Spearmax- Please shed some light on the situation.......... BW

Punishment
05-20-2008, 06:47 PM
Before we kill the guy where is the story. Everyone is quick to name call and blame and say the guy is an ass and a D**k but I am still waiting for the official story. Cheating is wrong and if he did cheat then he deserves what he is getting but a lot of people are giving their 2cents without knowing anything. I was just in the Grove Slam Dolphin Tournament and the same thing happened with the team that won the whole thing. They were accused of cheating and were still given the prize after a lie detector test and all. They did pass the lie detector test but people still say that the team cheated, I guess well never really know. It seems like cheating is happening more often than we think. By the way I think that nationality has nothing to do with this at all.
Ronald

bigwill
05-20-2008, 06:48 PM
Before we kill the guy where is the story. Everyone is quick to name call and blame and say the guy is an ass and a D**k but I am still waiting for the official story. Cheating is wrong and if he did cheat then he deserves what he is getting but a lot of people are giving their 2cents without knowing anything.

WELL SAID !!!!

westpalmspearo
05-20-2008, 07:04 PM
i dont think the cuban part should really be involved in any of this because then i would be rascist and thats not me. if i was to speak bad about cubans then i would be speaking bad about my mother and grandparents and they do nothing wrong. i think cheating has nothing to do with being cuban it has to do with bad morals and not giving a shit
as i mentioned in my first post on this thread i know cuban freedivers that know harolf that dont want to be involved in the cheating

IRONHEAD
05-20-2008, 07:16 PM
all this talk about dishonesty, I had walked through the prize tent and thought to myself how someone could have went in there and just stolen the prizes but then I had thought about the fact that all of the people I personally have met and dove with off of this site and that has been many and how they are all trustworthy people that i would trust to have keys to my house or anything I own . I really hate to see that idea being tarnished by some clowns in south florida. it seems they got what they deserved and I hope they never return to this forum. one of the things i love the most about spearboard is how many stand up people are involved.

RabiSpear
05-20-2008, 07:41 PM
It is a shame because the guy is straight up one of the best freedivers in the world. Didn't need to cheat to win. That is what is crazy to me. He has won tournaments straight up without cheating - even if he is accused of doing this before in THIS tourney.

It is too bad also because of the WAY he cheated. He still shot those fish without tanks, so they are still impressive. Why lie about it. I always thought a cheater would shoot on scuba and then roll up as a freediver.

I'm not defending him, but it is a shame to see such a lack of integrity from such a talented guy.

RichT
05-20-2008, 07:54 PM
Punishment, Bigwill,
Did you guys read post number 98 in this thread?:confused:

And the following was taken from ******************.com and posted by one of the weighmasters of the tournament.
All 5 divers were DQ'd. I don't have the file in front of me and my memory sucks, but all of them were booted.

Another team was also accused of cheating and they passed the voice stress test.

So, two teams were accused, one passed and one failed (Harolf Dean team).

I do agree with you both that there should be an official statement from the tournament director before phone calls are made to their sponsors or the USOA however.

bigwill
05-20-2008, 08:07 PM
RichT, I knew the where DQ'd, but I did not know what the grounds were for disqualification. It was kept very hush hush at the SBO. That's great that Bigsy chimed in to let us now what happened, but the news should have come from The Tourney Director....BW

bigdaddy-bang
05-20-2008, 08:18 PM
It is a shame because the guy is straight up one of the best freedivers in the world. Didn't need to cheat to win. That is what is crazy to me. He has won tournaments straight up without cheating - even if he is accused of doing this before in THIS tourney.

It is too bad also because of the WAY he cheated. He still shot those fish without tanks, so they are still impressive. Why lie about it. I always thought a cheater would shoot on scuba and then roll up as a freediver.

I'm not defending him, but it is a shame to see such a lack of integrity from such a talented guy.
I keep hearing what a great diver this guy is but if he's so great then why cheat. If he can't do it without cheating then he's not that great and at this point how do you know that he was not on scuba or that he even shot those fish??

RLG
05-20-2008, 08:53 PM
i should apologize to westpalmspearo for my racist comment.

and for doing so......i offer you a one-time offer for a left handed reach around. i only hope it can ease the pain.

who am i to criticize adelito too. i can only dive about 10 feet and usually get distracted by small aquarium fish. to talk smack about a self proclaimed "up and comer" is simply ignorant. cant wait to see your work superstar

jfjf
05-20-2008, 09:42 PM
As someone else mentioned. CHEATING AT a tournament such as THE SBO is EASY. There is no mandatory captain’s meeting, there are no impartial observers, you can potentially dive for days before the tournament, you could buy fish from a wholesaler or even trade fish with other divers from your boat or another one. You can get 6 guys to hunt and donate all the best fish to 3 members of the team. You can pool all the fish in your team and then divide up those fish, so that the individual(s) you designate will score well. You can use hook and line and even scuba gear while claiming that you are a freediver. I am sure that most all of the SBO competitors have considered these possibilities.

There are simple ways to nearly preclude this type of cheating; primarily through the use of impartial observers which are assigned to each boat and designating the departure/return times and also require that all competitors return to the exact same port. However, this is NOT what this tournament is about. The complexities and costs of introducing these kinds of constraints are completely impractical for almost everyone involved.

The SBO is intended primarily to be a “GAME”. Due to the large geographic area, some years certain areas will have more advantages than others due to weather, seas, thermoclines and probably 50 other factors. It is not really a level playing field for everyone every year. The players that sign up for this OPEN COMPETITION understand all this and they agree to play the game and follow a very liberal set of rules.

Some people must derive more enjoyment and thrill from the cheating itself than from the spearfishing competition. It took me quite a while to try to understand how someone could stand up on a stage, in front of their (supposed) peers, and cheerfully accept a prize when they have conspired to cheat. Maybe it is a rush, for them.

I also wonder if the presence of some of the larger prizes is enough to make some people look at the SBO as simply another way to “sell” their fish. I suspect that people with a commercial background, who sell fish every day MIGHT be more susceptible to this kind of thinking.

It is hard for me to really understand the behavior that this particular team was determined to be guilty of. Even with some big prizes, it seems that the individuals involved had much more to loose than to gain. I am sure this made the decision to eliminate them difficult.

For the SBO to remain a “game” that continues to draw participants from a wide geographic area, I do not see much else that can be done (other than what Tony has implemented this year).

sbh
05-20-2008, 10:05 PM
If it is proven the dude cheated in this tournament and has other questionable results, the committee responsible for the Natl. Team should be informed. He should not be representing our country. This guy is sponsored and gets tons of free spearfishing gear...he clearly did not need any prizes. I'm guessing was doing it to add another result to his already impressive resume.
No way I'm getting in a beef with westpalmspearo....he has way too many firearms!...plus he's a good guy.

Louis Rossignol
05-20-2008, 10:06 PM
I have to say, this whole thread makes me sick. I had the honor to meet Harolf in 05'. Talked to him for a few and this just sucks. I'm not defending him as I couldn't look myself in the face to take an award that doesn't belong to me.

JFJF, Tony,

Wanna fix it?

The winners only win trophies.

Prizes are given out by random drawings.

For years the Hell Divers Rodeo was like this. Main reason being, people will kill theirselves trying to win monetary prizes. Only since 04' have we gone to a drawing, but we haven't had a problem. We have had successful teams, we've also geared our rodeo so the average guy, diving a 23' "Still Floating" can win in close proximity to land as well as the long range "Under Pressure and Heavy Metal" boats.

Also, extend the rodeo, the Hell Divers Rodeo is 4 days long, believe me if you haven't got the fish you want in that amount of time, hang it up! Just think of it as a 4 day vacation. That's what I do, anything else is a bonus.

Mattedhead
05-20-2008, 10:36 PM
Wanna fix it?

The winners only win trophies.

Prizes are given out by random drawings.

For years the Hell Divers Rodeo was like this. Main reason being, people will kill theirselves trying to win monetary prizes. Only since 04' have we gone to a drawing, but we haven't had a problem. We have had successful teams, we've also geared our rodeo so the average guy, diving a 23' "Still Floating" can win in close proximity to land as well as the long range "Under Pressure and Heavy Metal" boats.


Louis-

This is an awesome idea! I know you guys take your lumps for some BS, but your heads are in the right place. Very cool concept.

I see a rodeo in my future...:eek:

kjflyfish
05-20-2008, 10:46 PM
Roc, that's a good start.

Need a teammate, Matt? :D

Rolo
05-20-2008, 11:07 PM
i wonder what his sponsors think??? i will never buy another Spetton item again.

You know, I have been torn on weather to comment to this post since I read it and a part of me is still reluctant to address it. I think it is unfair of you, particularly as the son-in-law of the owners of a local Spetton competitor, for this to be posted. I'm not sure I would have a major issue with some random observation from someone else, but it seems a bit unfair and opportunistic originating from you.

For those that have dealt with Pablo, the local Spetton distributor, will unanamoisly agree that he is a gentleman and an absolute joy to deal with on both a business and personal level. It is a bit unfair at this point to suggest a sort of boycot of his products when all the facts have not been laid out and even when they are, to hold his company accountable for such a deplorable display of unsportsmanlike conduct is unfair and a bit premature at this point.

I would hope you reconsider your position and choose to edit your post and I will subsequently delete mine. But then again, I can only hope.

Griswold
05-20-2008, 11:18 PM
I can't wait for Helldiver's this year. We plan to pull out on Thursday with some extra fuel and not come back until Sunday. If all goes well we'll only shoot bluewater. If the weather doesn't allow that, we'll shoot in close. Not too worried about winning anything. 3 days on the water chasing tuna, wahoo, mahi, etc. is the best prize I can think of.

Bill McIntyre
05-20-2008, 11:19 PM
I know Pablo, the Spetton US dealer, and he's a good guy. I personally don't buy spetton because I make most of my own gear, but I would not hesitate to recommend him to anyone interested in Spetton products. I fail to see how Pablo is responsible for Harolf Dean's actions and why he should bear the blame.



Jesus! I'm learning stuff I never knew, or at least getting hints.

It only makes me think that because money is involved, the process is too far broken to be saved. Apparently Harolf is sponsored by Spetton, so Pablo is responsible for Harolf's conduct? But someone else may not be sponsored by Spetton, or a seller may not carry Spetton products, so he might be perfectly happy to see Pablo tainted by an association with Harolf.

Or maybe I have missed the point entirely, and that is a distinct possibility.

All that I feel reasonably sure about it that when the stakes are high, people will cheat, and then the ensuing exchange of blame is destructive to our sport. Too many people seem to have too much at stake in the outcome.

seahunter49
05-20-2008, 11:24 PM
It is hard for me to really understand the behavior that this particular team was determined to be guilty of. Even with some big prizes, it seems that the individuals involved had much more to loose than to gain...I do not see the point of the SBO within the context of a competition. A competition is there to determine who is the best at something, for this an even playing field is necessary. What does the SBO determine? With the huge geographical spread of the competitors, like you said, can anyone really be determined as the better scuba diver, freediver, hunter, boat operator, what?? With such a flexible set of guidelines it's very easy for someone to take it one step further. I think it's probable that for this reason the disqualified competitors do not see "cheating" in the SBO as anything serious. It's not really hard for me to understand.

I think Louis has the right idea.

Louis Rossignol
05-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Bill,

In 03' through 06', the Hell Divers dove the SBO, at great expense, we didn't dive because of what we thought we could win, we dive to dive. We did fairly well and won some stuff. But none of us took the "road trip from hell" to win a prize, we did it for the sport of spearfishing and camraderie.

We have missed it the last 2 years because of other priorities.

That's what rodeos/ tournements are all about. Support your sport, and let us not split the divers or we will one day lose the right to spearfish!

One more thing, have a little class, YOU'RE A SPEARFISHERMAN, AREN'T YOU!!!

blueh2oboy
05-20-2008, 11:40 PM
By the way. Congrats to Rob for kicking everyone's ass fair and square and even more props to his hot girlfriend who drove him down through the night so that he could fuss over which one of his four 16 lb hogfish was bigger than the others so he could beat everyone.
Fair and square.
Well done Rob. You make us jealous and proud and are a great representative of our sport and our desire to combine it with attractive southern women.

Louis Rossignol
05-20-2008, 11:44 PM
By the way. Congrats to Rob for kicking everyone's ass fair and square and even more props to his hot girlfriend who drove him down through the night so that he could fuss over which one of his four 16 lb hogfish was bigger than the others so he could beat everyone.
Fair and square.
Well done Rob. You make us jealous and proud and are a great representative of our sport and our desire to combine it with attractive southern women.

:thumps: YESINDEED

Adelito
05-21-2008, 12:53 AM
If I should ever get too drunk and try to sign up for a big spearfishing tournament, I hope someone will remind me to read this thread.

I feel bad for people who put so much time and effort into organizing a thing like this. They are accused of being too easy on cheaters in the past, and then when they crack down, it results in a happy thread like this.

Its hard to make sense of it all in one reading, but so far here are things that turn me off.

I sense that at least some Cuban Americans are defensive because the presumed cheater is Cuban American.

I see a guy who won't give us his name now, but tells us we will learn it soon enough because he is so frigging good and getting better. Big deal- does that lend weight to his opinion?

I see people threatening physical violence to one another.

I see a guy who can't bother to use capitalization and normal English ("you are" instead of "UR") talking bullshit, or as near as I can tell that's what he is doing, because I can't make myself take the time to read crap from people who can't take the time to write.

A lot of people seem to think they know of widespread cheating in the past. I tend to take a dim view of human nature in the first place, so I'm inclined to believe them. Whenever competition gets big enough in terms of money or prestige, it seems that a significant number will cheat and ruin it for everyone else.

But even if the accusers are wrong, its still a turn off because it just shows what sort of distrust results from competition.

I spearfish for enjoyment. Does anyone enjoy these big tournaments? I don't see much evidence of it here.

Are you serious? I said if i continue to progress, since i do consider this my sport and i am very serious about it. Also, defensive because he is cuban american? The only two divers in question that day where cuban! At the beging of the thread there where numerous mentions or origin, and i chose to ignore it. If any one is planning on responded to my post, please read all of them first! superspearo? come on you guys have to better than that. Making fun of my wetsuit:sleep: bring on something a little more tasteful. I understand you guys feel the impulse of taking a shot at me for defending a member of THE UNITED STATES SPEARFISHING TEAM, but try a little harder, you will be more likely to be regarded as a man.

Adelito
05-21-2008, 12:58 AM
I think with the tights and the trophy, your ego is getting fed well... by yourself. The point I don't see is are you defending the persons that got caught cheating? Your probably on your Blackberry or I phone so please be brief and pay no attention to punctuation or capitalization.

Wow that was very clever, and i actually own a very modest phone. "the cheaters" you are refering to have been attacked, by many who are just nosy and where not even in the same state at the event. I began in this thread by responding to tasteless threat. I see you wearing a wetsuit, whats your point if you have one? o and the trophy is because i won, and worked hard that day for it, if you want i can lend you one of mine. grow up.

Adelito
05-21-2008, 01:53 AM
So far I hear alot of talk, from people that should just be listening. I see no action, but that of empty tasteless threats. I have recieved alot attention for my comments regarding one of the united states best freedivers. After everyone is done typing no one has written anything of value. Why havent you honest, talented spearos stepped forward and challenged Harolf to a fishing duel of sorts? I mean you want to beat him up, but why cant you just beat him? Maybe because most of us cant! You make fun of my wetsuit, but the BEST SPEARFISHERMEN in the world (pedro carbonell) uses bottoms just like mine, or should i say "i like him", and just like Harolf. Then people with conflict of interest say that SPETTON is in one way or another no good. This comment affects the lively hood of one of the best persons i have ever met in my life! Pablo deserves an apology immediately!!!! Oh and by the way, Austin burneo was the best freediver, TEAM SPETTON USA. The fact is harolf didnt pass an oral polygraph. He was D/Q from the tournament. End of story. If he did cheat he risked inprisonment, loss of all equipment present, the boat on which he was fishing, his sponsors, his good name, and the ultimate goal of any serious competitor, TEAM USA. For what, a trophy, a nice prize, some nice pics in a mag, a little glory? All those days fine tuning his skills, and improving his capacity, now to be disrespected by strangers who may have not been present at the event? Only to go on and make rumors,threats, lies about a person who cant afford to lose the oppurtunity he has awaiting him this fall? stop yourself from accusing him, and hope to believe that we actually do have such great spearos in the U.S. I love this country, because it has given both me and my family freedom, and oppurtunity. I love freediving because for those briefs moments I am underwater, everything makes sense, its like the thing i was looking for has been found. My goal one day is to be so good, i will always be accused of cheating.But be of such character that everyone knows deep inside it cant be true. This seems to Harolfs case. What would have happened if he had passed, the same people that have ripped him apart would be sending congrats, and telling friends to see the monsters in his pics. There are politics in every sport, but there great thing about this one, is that fish speak for themselves. A spearfishing competition embodies a few things, the effectiveness of a dives technique, their seamenship, which is powered by there obsession of the sea, and the oceans will, wether or not you take one of its creatures, or left wanting to. WHILE I MAY SEEM COCKY, & EGOCENTRIC, i am just excited that i will have the oppurtunity to compete, and if i dedicate myself, WIN, and travel and see more of this world underwater. If you knew how i felt you would be disgusted along side me. If he did cheat he is dealing with the consequences already, and if he didnt i am sorry on behalf of everyone. Like i said our contact is cordial and brief. I have never fished with him, but against him. i have seen him fish, and i am in awe. Many other very good freedivers can agree he has a gift. This is a man that once fished for food, not fun in cuba. The attacks on him, miami spearos, and cubans should not be tolerated. I am surprised no more have stepped forward. I understand it would have been better to stay out of this, but i know i will feel better after this. SO I ENCOURAGE ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO WOULD TRULY LIKE TO TEST HIM OUT TO CONTACT HIM AND SET UP A DAY OF DIVING , I KNOW YOUR OPINIONS WILL CHANGE.

I would like to thank those responsible for spearboard.com, and the SBO. It could be the cause of great excitement , or grief depending on how individuals decide to act. This will be my last post on this thread. If any of you would like to contact me like you have through this thread, please pm me, otherwise you can catch me in the big blue. Thank you.

-adelito

anchorman
05-21-2008, 01:57 AM
Who cares about the fish Rob shot........that dudes lady is SMOKIN!

Friggin fish geeks........didn't even notice did ya!

I have a glass plaque for you Rob........it says "2008 SBO HAWTTEST CHIX"


Did someone say something about cheaters being there?

greekdiver
05-21-2008, 03:05 AM
Pablo is a great guy and i dont think anyone is saying otherwise.

diverlen
05-21-2008, 05:57 AM
I do not see the point of the SBO within the context of a competition. A competition is there to determine who is the best at something, for this an even playing field is necessary. What does the SBO determine? With the huge geographical spread of the competitors, like you said, can anyone really be determined as the better scuba diver, freediver, hunter, boat operator, what?? With such a flexible set of guidelines it's very easy for someone to take it one step further. I think it's probable that for this reason the disqualified competitors do not see "cheating" in the SBO as anything serious. It's not really hard for me to understand.

I think Louis has the right idea.

Seahunter49, it is hard for me to understand your logic because even though the playing field may not be scientifically level, it is within the parameters of acceptable behavior. Your so-called taking it one step further, cheating, is not acceptable. Here the shooter has totally crossed the line, so that is why I understand the seriousness of this unacceptable behavior yet you do not.
Louis and the HellDivers have their own set of rules which I have no opinion on but even so, there would be many ways a diver could cheat in their rodeo as jfjf pointed out in his post.
Maybe more emphasis in the rules that each diver's catch will be subject to more close scrutiny at weigh-in might preclude spearos from crossing over the line. Just a thought.

jfjf
05-21-2008, 07:14 AM
... SO I ENCOURAGE ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO WOULD TRULY LIKE TO TEST HIM OUT TO CONTACT HIM AND SET UP A DAY OF DIVING , I KNOW YOUR OPINIONS WILL CHANGE.

You seem to be missing the point entirely. It is not if he has skills or not it is a question of his actions leading up to (and during the SBO):eek::eek:

As for blaming a sponsor for the actions of their representative, well it seems premature for that.

And as for Sea Hunter's comments, well what did we expect....It is not a test of who is the best diver, it is a game to see who can get the most points on game day. Everyone who follows the rules, and gets a bunch of points is both lucky and very skilled. (I got about 25 points this year and is my highest score ever)

All this talk of cheating should not be used to taint the success of the winner and any of the other competitors

ITSABOUTTIME
05-21-2008, 07:43 AM
A voice polygraph might be enough to dq you from a tournament but it shouldn't be enough to trash a life or career hopefully it will be investigated further, there is not even an official statement or accusation.

snooker
05-21-2008, 07:58 AM
If he did cheat he is dealing with the consequences already.

Please inform me as to what his consequences have been thus far? He got DQ'ed, that's it. Are you kidding me?

SO I ENCOURAGE ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO WOULD TRULY LIKE TO TEST HIM OUT TO CONTACT HIM AND SET UP A DAY OF DIVING , I KNOW YOUR OPINIONS WILL CHANGE.


You know that saying, "Once a cheater, always a cheater!" The fact is no one wants to be associated to a cheater and sure as hell don't want to compete against a cheater, even if they have changed their ways. It takes a lot to build up a reputation, but only one screw up to tarnish it and that's what he's done here, or so it appears.

At the same time, I think he's a hell of a freediver. But then I ask myself (if it is true), do I want a cheater representing the US??????

Seth
05-21-2008, 08:18 AM
if he has shown that he is willing to cheat to try to steal the win from decent honest people, then he is less than a man, however, i will choose to make my final decision about him after the official story comes out..

i will say one thing, in this sport, reputation is EVERYTHING, there are divers out there who are extremely accomplished, and yet nobody would even begin to think about questioning the legality of their fish in a tournament, they worked very hard to get to this level, and will work very hard to keep their reputation because they understand what it is to be able to walk into a bar and a fellow spearo buy them a drink instead of laugh and tell his friend about the tournament they got caught cheating.

Dignan
05-21-2008, 09:18 AM
Why havent you honest, talented spearos stepped forward and challenged Harolf to a fishing duel of sorts? -adelito


My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Grin
05-21-2008, 09:37 AM
In case many didn't know:
1. There were many people who didn't spear this tournament, this year, specifically becasue they thought, and boldly claimed this all year long on every site on the internet, that this specific team / guy cheated last year and nothing was / could be done about it.
2. This year he was disqualified for exactly that!

You are not going to get a court hearing answer. Meaning the result and answer is what you have right now. So make your decisions.

Mr Harolf Dean put himself and his sponsors directly in this situation. And many were waiting for exactly this result. If you ask me, he set himself up for exactly what he deserves. I gave him the benefit of the doubt right up until he got caught. I don't see how anyone could not back up those who tryed to tell us this situation was, exactly what they claimed it obviously was.I would be amazed a sponsor would be foolish enough to stick with this situation. That's the way the world works!

Don't you think that if this situation were not the exact situation it appears to be, that there would not be a few expected involved personalities defusing the wrong accusations. That is not happeneing in any way! Face it! It is what it is! This team got caught cheating. Their nationality means zero to me, or how great of divers they are, or if they are on what team etc... Actually, I find it a little embarrassing they represent the US, from what I read here. I think we should try to somehow pressure this US team to eliminate him from representing us.

I any other sport that would be the result. That's how it works! You do something and your sponsors drop you, And if your team does not drop these known cheaters, which has seriously damaged the teams credibility, the sponsors drop the team. The team needs to make it clear their opinion of what their positon is toward this guy. I'm not reaching out to sponsors to drop him, I'm simply saying sponsors would be crazy to be associated with this situation. "Nice guy and great diver from Cuba" menas zero! He screwed himself and many around him bad. And it could be said he screwed all of us too, if he represents the US in some way.

The only good thing here is, for the guys who stated they knew these specific guys cheated last year, and likely all the years before, prooved their credibility upon those claims. It really takes a ballsy fool to be accused of cheating one year, then to cheat the next year, and give his accussers the chance to proove it.

oto_gc
05-21-2008, 10:02 AM
I'm going to be devil's advocate here for a moment. I've been following these entire thread and here is what I take,

*this guy is an outstanding freediver, "one of the best" in the world, and for that he is representing the US, everybody seems to agree on this

*the SBO format is an invitation for all kinds of cheating, small, big, innocent, blatant, etc.

*Spetton has nothing to do with whether he cheated or not, and should not be boycotted

*to insinuate that cuban divers are more apt to cheat because of who we are, where we come from is just plain wrong

*adelito is just a cool kid with dreams of being a spearfishing idol

these are my conclusions, maybe I missed something....

Gamble
05-21-2008, 10:26 AM
In case many didn't know:
1. There were many people who didn't spear this tournament, this year, specifically becasue they thought, and boldly claimed this all year long on every site on the internet, that this specific team / guy cheated last year and nothing was / could be done about it.
2. This year he was disqualified for exactly that!

You are not going to get a court hearing answer. Meaning the result and answer is what you have right now. So make your decisions.

Mr Harolf Dean put himself and his sponsors directly in this situation. And many were waiting for exactly this result. If you ask me, he set himself up for exactly what he deserves. I gave him the benefit of the doubt right up until he got caught. I don't see how anyone could not back up those who tryed to tell us this situation was, exactly what they claimed it obviously was.I would be amazed a sponsor would be foolish enough to stick with this situation. That's the way the world works!

Don't you think that if this situation were not the exact situation it appears to be, that there would not be a few expected involved personalities defusing the wrong accusations. That is not happeneing in any way! Face it! It is what it is! This team got caught cheating. Their nationality means zero to me, or how great of divers they are, or if they are on what team etc... Actually, I find it a little embarrassing they represent the US, from what I read here. I think we should try to somehow pressure this US team to eliminate him from representing us.

I any other sport that would be the result. That's how it works! You do something and your sponsors drop you, And if your team does not drop these known cheaters, which has seriously damaged the teams credibility, the sponsors drop the team. The team needs to make it clear their opinion of what their positon is toward this guy. I'm not reaching out to sponsors to drop him, I'm simply saying sponsors would be crazy to be associated with this situation. "Nice guy and great diver from Cuba" menas zero! He screwed himself and many around him bad. And it could be said he screwed all of us too, if he represents the US in some way.

The only good thing here is, for the guys who stated they knew these specific guys cheated last year, and likely all the years before, prooved their credibility upon those claims. It really takes a ballsy fool to be accused of cheating one year, then to cheat the next year, and give his accussers the chance to proove it.

:whistle::whistle:;)

Skeletor
05-21-2008, 10:39 AM
*adelito is just a cool kid with dreams of being a spearfishing idol


great observation :lol::rofl:

sbh
05-21-2008, 11:37 AM
... he has cheated numerous times and finally got caught. he is sponsored by spetton, his team name was spetton. his sponsor should have already dropped him. if they dont, than they are supporting a cheater, a liar, and a thief. not to mention a criminal(bahama and US laws). i dont blame spetton or its distributers for his actions, but they have a responsabiltiy to act now as a sponsor.


I agree completely Shane. I also agree with the post that the US Team should be contacted and made aware of the situation. Many of the Olympic athletes that have been DQ for doping were/are the best in the world in their events...that doesn't take away from the fact that they cheated and should not be allowed to compete. Man, things never change...Its been almost ten years since I was in S. Florida and did tournaments with the Longfins. Even back then there was a group that would show some huge fish (not durning tournaments) and it was known that they were getting them in the Bahamas with guns (and often selling them, not checking customs, etc etc).
Pitifull:(

Omerbrother7
05-21-2008, 01:46 PM
Haha this thread is rediculous and has become completely irrelevant to the original question. The only respectable comment I've seen has been reply #87. If the guy cheated then so be it. As outstanding of a diver he is, he'd be a cheating loser. All the training in the world can't cancel out a liar. If he didn't cheat, then most of you are destroying his reputation. I think everyone needs to relax, work on their own progression and forget about it. You spearfish to spearfish, right? I'm sure Tony will post the results when he deems it necessary. Look forward to bettering yourself and the next flat day.
-Chris

JAW
05-21-2008, 02:08 PM
.deleted text; per mutual request.



Shane I know your a very nice guy. But this comment is way out of line, and I take personal offense to it. Spetton USA and Pablo should have nothing to do with this and saying you will never buy their products because of someone’s actions is ridiculous. It is a purely slanderous comment that has the possibility to affect the reputation and business of a man who is a true friend to me.

Pablo is the nicest, most honorable, person in the diving business as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention he is a world class champion freediver, who has placed in worlds while competing against the best of them. His business does not actually have the money to sponsor divers with tons of free gear or a stipend. So at best it is just an at cost deal in trade for a little exposure. I am PROUD to consider myself associated with Spetton USA, a company that represents nothing but integrity, honesty, and excellent dive equipment. I sincerely request that you remove your previous post; it is purely slanders, unprovoked, and completely unnecessary attack against Pablo's company.




I had made a commitment to myself to stay out of all this, but since I’m here, there are way too many people jumping on a bandwagon and throwing way to many stones. Many of whom I know have no actual knowledge of this or past events, and probably never even met any of the individuals involved or even competed in any of these tournaments. This stuff is a very serious matter, and many of you are acting extremely childish and hot headed. The way I see it, if you weren’t there, or you don’t have personal knowledge of the events you really shouldn’t be on here threatening bodily harm to people, using profanity, and slandering the reputation of a business that was in no way involved with the events under discussion.

If anyone has a problem with me or wants to say anything else about Spetton USA, you had better be prepared to say it to my face and deal with it on a personal level.

Thanks,
Jason

Bill McIntyre
05-21-2008, 02:13 PM
Why havent you honest, talented spearos stepped forward and challenged Harolf to a fishing duel of sorts? I mean you want to beat him up, but why cant you just beat him? Maybe because most of us cant!

OK, I'll challenge him to a man to man spearfishing contest, but first I have a commitment to a home run hitting contest with Barry Bonds. If Bonds beats me, I guess it will prove he didn't dope. And then if Harolf beats me, I guess it will prove he didn't go to the Bahamas and shoot fish with spearguns. Makes sense to me.

WHILE I MAY SEEM COCKY, & EGOCENTRIC

Yes. Recognizing the problem is the first step to fixing it.

The attacks on him, miami spearos, and cubans should not be tolerated.

There has been a lot to read here, but I missed the attacks on Miami spearos and Cubans. Please point them out to me. All I can recall is defensiveness from someone who seems to think that criticism of a Miami Cuban spearo is criticism of himself. I would think that a Miami Cuban spearo would want to disassociate himself from a cheater.

Muay Thai
05-21-2008, 02:19 PM
As some of you know this subject is very near and dear to my heart. When I won the 2001 Freedive Spearfishing Nationals in Tarpon Springs I was accused of cheating by some Miami freedivers. It was a horrible thing to go through! Luckily I was found not guilty after an intense interview by the USOA President, the hosting Council's President and the USOA Freediving Director. But what really solidified my innocence was the testimony of a 3rd party observer assigned to my boat for the day. I could have ended up with somebody's wife or girlfriend who wouldíve spent the day sleeping or sunbathing but thank god, instead ended up with a diver who knew exactly what his job was and did it well. He took each and every fish we shot that day from our hands, cataloged them and placed them in our coolers. Because there was no doubt in his mind that we didnít cheat, he stuck up for us and fought for our innocence during the inquisition. I remember him at one point making the statement to the crowd "Now you're questioning my integrity". It also helped that he just happened to be an officer of the hosting Council. Let me tell you, when you get accused of cheating and you didn't, it sucks!!!! I would've done anything that day to prove my innocence including take a lie detector test, voice stress test, etc, etc, etc. Hell, I wouldíve even been willing to give blood or piss in a cup if it somehow could've proven without a doubt I was innocent. Because even today, 7 years later, I still hear talk that I'm a cheater. More than likely 2001 will be the only time I ever win the Nationals (itís extremely competitive nowadays and to be a multiyear champion is almost impossible) and unfortunately for me, my win will always be somewhat tainted because of the accusations that were made even though me and those who know me, know Iím not a cheater.

With that out in the open, I'd now like to comment. Accusations of cheating run rampant in the competitive freediving circle. Every year we have multiple formal protests fielded at the Nationals. In fact, it got so out of control, that the protest fee 2 years ago was increased to $50 (you lose your money if your protest is unsuccessful). It worked because it was the 1st year I can remember no protests being filed. BTW, I find it very ironic that the last time my team was protested at the Nationals it was by the same team who just got dq'd at the SBO. Man, karma's a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, cheating in tournaments at one level or another does happen. It's not rampant because as others have stated, what's the point, you're only cheating yourself. But to some, for whatever reason, it doesn't bother them. They'll do anything to win even if it's only for a trophy. I applaud Tony's effort to root out cheating this year at the SBO. Some have asked why he didn't do it sooner. Probably for one reason that he was in denial, who wants to think people are cheating in nothing more than a 'fun' tournament. And for two, it's damn near impossible to prove someone cheated. And it's definitely not fair to stick a person with that brand for the rest of his/her life unless you're 100% sure. Especially because most accusations stem strictly from jealousy, personal dislikes, trying to place higher by taking out the competition, etc. It sounds like it was a long time coming for Harolf, but well deserved. Unfortunately, other than being dqíd at the SBO, I doubt anything else will happen to him. His sponsor probably wonít drop him (because many will think as Adelito, heís a great diver and the fact that heís a cheater doesnít matter) and the USOA more than likely wonít drop him from the World Team because they donít have any rules in place to do so and besides, the Team Captain and majority of divers on the Team are his fellow divers from Miami.

Scott

greekdiver
05-21-2008, 02:36 PM
^good post.

I also agree with Jason. Everything he says about Pablo is 100% true. The guy is a class act.

diverik
05-21-2008, 03:09 PM
As some of you know this subject is very near and dear to my heart. When I won the 2001 Freedive Spearfishing Nationals in Tarpon Springs I was accused of cheating by some Miami freedivers. It was a horrible thing to go through! Luckily I was found not guilty after an intense interview by the USOA President, the hosting Council's President and the USOA Freediving Director. But what really solidified my innocence was the testimony of a 3rd party observer assigned to my boat for the day. I could have ended up with somebody's wife or girlfriend who wouldíve spent the day sleeping or sunbathing but thank god, instead ended up with a diver who knew exactly what his job was and did it well. He took each and every fish we shot that day from our hands, cataloged them and placed them in our coolers. Because there was no doubt in his mind that we didnít cheat, he stuck up for us and fought for our innocence during the inquisition. I remember him at one point making the statement to the crowd "Now you're questioning my integrity". It also helped that he just happened to be an officer of the hosting Council. Let me tell you, when you get accused of cheating and you didn't, it sucks!!!! I would've done anything that day to prove my innocence including take a lie detector test, voice stress test, etc, etc, etc. Hell, I wouldíve even been willing to give blood or piss in a cup if it somehow could've proven without a doubt I was innocent. Because even today, 7 years later, I still hear talk that I'm a cheater. More than likely 2001 will be the only time I ever win the Nationals (itís extremely competitive nowadays and to be a multiyear champion is almost impossible) and unfortunately for me, my win will always be somewhat tainted because of the accusations that were made even though me and those who know me, know Iím not a cheater.

With that out in the open, I'd now like to comment. Accusations of cheating run rampant in the competitive freediving circle. Every year we have multiple formal protests fielded at the Nationals. In fact, it got so out of control, that the protest fee 2 years ago was increased to $50 (you lose your money if your protest is unsuccessful). It worked because it was the 1st year I can remember no protests being filed. BTW, I find it very ironic that the last time my team was protested at the Nationals it was by the same team who just got dq'd at the SBO. Man, karma's a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, cheating in tournaments at one level or another does happen. It's not rampant because as others have stated, what's the point, you're only cheating yourself. But to some, for whatever reason, it doesn't bother them. They'll do anything to win even if it's only for a trophy. I applaud Tony's effort to root out cheating this year at the SBO. Some have asked why he didn't do it sooner. Probably for one reason that he was in denial, who wants to think people are cheating in nothing more than a 'fun' tournament. And for two, it's damn near impossible to prove someone cheated. And it's definitely not fair to stick a person with that brand for the rest of his/her life unless you're 100% sure. Especially because most accusations stem strictly from jealousy, personal dislikes, trying to place higher by taking out the competition, etc. It sounds like it was a long time coming for Harolf, but well deserved. Unfortunately, other than being dqíd at the SBO, I doubt anything else will happen to him. His sponsor probably wonít drop him (because many will think as Adelito, heís a great diver and the fact that heís a cheater doesnít matter) and the USOA more than likely wonít drop him from the World Team because they donít have any rules in place to do so and besides, the Team Captain and majority of divers on the Team are his fellow divers from Miami.

Scott

Well put

oto_gc
05-21-2008, 03:10 PM
what I don't see anywhere is a factual explanation of what happened and what actions were taken. Usually, on the results page, you see DQ'd divers, I don't see any in the results page.

If the intention of this forum's management/tournament officials is to keep the whole thing private and ignore that it happened, then this thread is pointless and should be deleted.

jfjf
05-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Oto:
I share your disappointment in not hearing the official story. I am sure it will come soon.

If it is not up in 3 hours, I am going to demand that my full subscription to SPEARBOARD be refunded! :cowboy::cowboy::cowboy:

oto_gc
05-21-2008, 03:24 PM
Oto:
I share your disappointment in not hearing the official story. I am sure it will come soon.

If it is not up in 3 hours, I am going to demand that my full subscription to SPEARBOARD be refunded! :cowboy::cowboy::cowboy:

if you're being sarcastic, Jim, I'm not, I think this thread has run its purpose and it starting to become damaging, there should an official explanation of the events and this one should probably go away.

Scott
05-21-2008, 03:52 PM
If anyone has a problem with me or wants to say anything else about Spetton USA, you had better be prepared to say it to my face and deal with it on a personal level.

So I can't complain to or about Spetton sponsoring a suspected cheater? You are crazy....LOL:confused:

FreediveNewport
05-21-2008, 04:52 PM
Shane I know your a very nice guy. But this comment is way out of line, and I take personal offense to it. Spetton USA and Pablo should have nothing to do with this and saying you will never buy their products because of someoneís actions is ridiculous. It is a purely slanderous comment that has the possibility to affect the reputation and business of a man who is a true friend to me.

Pablo is the nicest, most honorable, person in the diving business as far as I'm concerned. Not to mention he is a world class champion freediver, who has placed in worlds while competing against the best of them. His business does not actually have the money to sponsor divers with tons of free gear or a stipend. So at best it is just an at cost deal in trade for a little exposure. I am PROUD to consider myself associated with Spetton USA, a company that represents nothing but integrity, honesty, and excellent dive equipment. I sincerely request that you remove your previous post; it is purely slanders, unprovoked, and completely unnecessary attack against Pablo's company.




I had made a commitment to myself to stay out of all this, but since Iím here, there are way too many people jumping on a bandwagon and throwing way to many stones. Many of whom I know have no actual knowledge of this or past events, and probably never even met any of the individuals involved or even competed in any of these tournaments. This stuff is a very serious matter, and many of you are acting extremely childish and hot headed. The way I see it, if you werenít there, or you donít have personal knowledge of the events you really shouldnít be on here threatening bodily harm to people, using profanity, and slandering the reputation of a business that was in no way involved with the events under discussion.

If anyone has a problem with me or wants to say anything else about Spetton USA, you had better be prepared to say it to my face and deal with it on a personal level.

Thanks,
Jason


I agree. Pablo is without a doubt one of the top individuals in the community. Putting any kind of blame on him or even suggesting for people to stop buying his products is pretty sad.

Bill McIntyre
05-21-2008, 04:54 PM
Tournaments sure do bring out the best in us don't they? I just got this email.

I dont know who the **** you are, but i hope you are attending this years nationals so you can say all this stupid shit to my face you ****ing pussy.

I don't know for sure who it came from because the sender's name is not directly associated with a Spearboard user name, but I can guess.

Its ironic that he doesn't know who I am, because my user name is my real name. And of course he wouldn't have been able to email me if I didn't have my email address in my sig line. But I'm the pussy, while someone who hides behind a user name is the man.

In any event, I had to tell him that I won't be attending the nationals. I'm sure not good enough to compete, and I'm not interested in seeing people sling accusations of cheating at each other.

PrincessSlaya!
05-21-2008, 04:58 PM
:eek: Oh my, this took me about 55 minutes to read! If you want a womens opinion. Once a cheater, Always a cheater pertains to all area's! Including spearfishin :p

jfjf
05-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Tournaments sure do bring out the best in us don't they? I just got this email.



I don't know for sure who it came from because the sender's name is not directly associated with a Spearboard user name, but I can guess.

Its ironic that he doesn't know who I am, because my user name is my real name. And of course he wouldn't have been able to email me if I didn't have my email address in my sig line. But I'm the pussy, while someone who hides behind a user name is the man.

In any event, I had to tell him that I won't be attending the nationals. I'm sure not good enough to compete, and I'm not interested in seeing people sling accusations of cheating at each other.

I didn't even know Barry Bonds was a spearfisherman! :D

joey_720
05-21-2008, 05:10 PM
omg ... idk why everyone is still talkin S*** no one knows what really happend, so keep the opinions to yourself till the real story comes out, then say w/e you want....and to whoever said the comment about not buying the spetton stuff, you are not that big of a deal you are one person....and you have really dumb logic for your idea to boycott him.......besides that stay cool in this hot as weather, in other words jump on in:thumps:

Bill McIntyre
05-21-2008, 05:13 PM
Joey, could you go ahead and use standard words and capitalization so that I'll be able to read your contribution?

ny_er
05-21-2008, 05:16 PM
If you want a womens opinion. Once a cheater, Always a cheater pertains to all area's! Including spearfishin :p

oh come on, when I was like 19 I was a little prick, you can change when you get older

joey_720
05-21-2008, 05:17 PM
omg means oh my god; idk means i dont know; and w/e means what ever ....if that helps anything...and if u were trying to be sarcastic go f*** yourself , if you are not being sarcastic does that help you understand ?

NOTANX
05-21-2008, 05:36 PM
several people that i have great respect for have kindly asked me to take my threads down because of their affiliation with pablo and spetton. i have done this. i do not however appriciate threats in my PM about legal action for stating my OWN intentions and opinions. in this country, everyone has the legal right of free speech.

RLG
05-21-2008, 05:38 PM
I agree with Shane. Guy cheats with a company's logo on his chest needs to be dropped like a hot crack pipe.

Bill McIntyre
05-21-2008, 05:39 PM
Wow, I can feel the love growing. Here is another email from my secret admirer. I just want to get these out there in case I get gunned down, so you will be able to provide the police with leads. :)

(name deleted) is my real name you ****ing dumbass, and maybe you are to old to see the font but up and down people have been attacking cubans, people from miami, and me for trying to defend both. If it was some dickhead redneck from the carolinas, or a west coast faggot like yourself and everyone was attacking them then we would see what the **** would go on. Stop being such a little bitch, i at least have a picture of myself on the site. Do me a favor shut the **** up, if you dont compete then why the **** do you have an opinion , o probably because of your female tendencies, faggot. **** YOU, SHUT UP.

I pointed out that the kid in my avatar was actually me a "few" years ago, but I promised to put back up a more recent photo soon. I gave him a choice of this fish I shot last week (not in a competition through) or a couple of photos from my 20 years as a Marine defending his right to be a little prick until he grows out of it. :) I was just going through old albums and scanning photos, so it is very timely that I can offer these.

And I gave him permission to print out a photo of his choice and put it on the wall to throw darts at. Joey and any others who are incensed by my posts are hear by given permission to do the same.

God, this is fun. :)

RLG
05-21-2008, 05:41 PM
Much respect for military men!!

NOTANX
05-21-2008, 05:43 PM
can i throw a dart at the fish?

apnea_complex
05-21-2008, 05:47 PM
Good one, Bill!!

Gamble
05-21-2008, 05:53 PM
omg ... idk why everyone is still talkin S*** no one knows what really happend, so keep the opinions to yourself till the real story comes out, then say w/e you want....and to whoever said the comment about not buying the spetton stuff, you are not that big of a deal you are one person....and you have really dumb logic for your idea to boycott him.......besides that stay cool in this hot as weather, in other words jump on in:thumps:

Just because YOU don't know what went down doesn't mean that no one know what happened.:eek: Talk less and listen more should have been the third thing you mother taught you.:loser:

joey_720
05-21-2008, 05:59 PM
damn ...colonel or lt. colonel much respect deserved, my best friend is a marine he just got back from iraq a few months ago.....but i was just askin if u were being sarcastic lol

Omerbrother7
05-21-2008, 06:01 PM
omg means oh my god; idk means i dont know; and w/e means what ever ....if that helps anything...and if u were trying to be sarcastic go f*** yourself , if you are not being sarcastic does that help you understand ?


You better learn how to respect some people, especially a man who fought for our country. Acting tough isn't going to get you anywhere in life, except in some jail, where you'll be someone's bitch.

Gamble
05-21-2008, 06:02 PM
OK,,, I forgot you know everything. I'd lay it ALL out for you son but that would be no fun. Enjoy your happy place!:D

Q
05-21-2008, 06:03 PM
who is the mod on this thread?

Q.

biggsy
05-21-2008, 06:04 PM
Thread closed. It's run it's course for the time being.

The thread has escalated into childish threats and abusive language.

As more information becomes available, I'm confident it will be shared. I am not at liberty to discuss more than what I did discuss in public regarding the allegations and ultimately the disqualification of Team Spetton.