How deep on air?

[Bulit7]

OK, for you deep divers on here. My setup is almost complete.

LP120 cranked to 3600psi
30cf pony

What is the deepest you guys go around here with this kind of setup.

I will be getting a couple of 30s for 80% scrubbing.

I'm thinking 200-220 feet os so.

What is the best way to build up to those depths since most dives are solo.

[bake]

I'm not a diver, but I thought solo was a no go....

[dagodiver]

pm sent

[SpearMax]

OK, for you deep divers on here. My setup is almost complete.

LP120 cranked to 3600psi
30cf pony

What is the deepest you guys go around here with this kind of setup.

I will be getting a couple of 30s for 80% scrubbing.

I'm thinking 200-220 feet os so.

What is the best way to build up to those depths since most dives are solo.

Lee, did you get the decompression procedures and other tech training? If not, you should do that first before deciding what to do on air with deco bottles. Tony

[100days-a-year]

200'with 2 of the guys here.
180' with a couple more.
155' with a few.
168' with my wife taking pix.

The point is to be able to function safely and within your abilities.Some conditions severely exacerbate narcosis such as current increasing work and CO2 load,constriction due to wetsuits in the cold water,dark conditions etc....

Helium is definitely better past 200' but there are a couple guys here who have been WAY past 200' spearfishing on air commercially and recreationally.Training is nice but quite a few folk with a lovely collection of cards are inept even after the best training while others take to it like a duck to water.

[Bulit7]

I'm not a diver, but I thought solo was a no go....

We dive to spearfish. It is counterproductive to go down in pairs. Scares the fish.

pm sent

Thanks Mike.

Lee, did you get the decompression procedures and other tech training? If not, you should do that first before deciding what to do on air with deco bottles. Tony

No training what so ever. Just a LOT of reading and a slow progression into deeper and deeper dives. My max right now is 165 or so but I don't have too many under my belt. My gear was not complete and I was not comfortable hitting those depths. Now with good gear at hand, I think I'm ready to start hitting the deeper wrecks here in Palm Beach and Broward.

200'with 2 of the guys here.
180' with a couple more.
155' with a few.
168' with my wife taking pix.

The point is to be able to function safely and within your abilities.Some conditions severely exacerbate narcosis such as current increasing work and CO2 load,constriction due to wetsuits in the cold water,dark conditions etc....

Helium is definitely better past 200' but there are a couple guys here who have been WAY past 200' spearfishing on air commercially and recreationally.Training is nice but quite a few folk with a lovely collection of cards are inept even after the best training while others take to it like a duck to water.

Yep. I have no cards. I am open water only. I self taught myself Nitrox thru books and diving with people who wanted me to use Nitrox so we could dive together. I am very cautious and calm in the water. I am very comfortable as well.


Thanks guys.:beer:

[Mike Edmonston]

Yep. I have no cards. I am open water only. I self taught myself Nitrox thru books and diving with people who wanted me to use Nitrox so we could dive together. I am very cautious and calm in the water. I am very comfortable as well.
Thanks guys.:beer:

Ok,

What is your lost gass bailout strategy? What is the END that you plan on maintaining at your max depth? What is your planned and contingency bottom times and depths? How do you plan on monitoring your CNS and your OTU's for this dive? Why are you using 80% instead of 100% o2? Do you know the difference in microbubble formation and nitrogen intake vs pure Oxygen to choose 80% as opposed to 100% o2?

Any macho wannabe idiot can grab a tank and breathe from it, it's knowing what to do when the crap hits the fan that separates calm well trained divers from Macho wannabees who are trying to compensate for their shortcomings.

Based on your self description of diving and unwillingness to take a class because you're too cheap, I would safely say that the max depth you should go to is about 12 to 15 feet!

Have a Macho day... Vroom Vroom....

[Hank49]

Ok,

What is your lost gass bailout strategy? What is the END that you plan on maintaining at your max depth? What is your planned and contingency bottom times and depths? How do you plan on monitoring your CNS and your OTU's for this dive? Why are you using 80% instead of 100% o2? Do you know the difference in microbubble formation and nitrogen intake vs pure Oxygen to choose 80% as opposed to 100% o2?

Any macho wannabe idiot can grab a tank and breathe from it, it's knowing what to do when the crap hits the fan that separates calm well trained divers from Macho wannabees who are trying to compensate for their shortcomings.

Based on your self description of diving and unwillingness to take a class because you're too cheap, I would safely say that the max depth you should go to is about 12 to 15 feet!

Have a Macho day... Vroom Vroom....

You could have spent the same energy giving constructive advice. Or do you just not like motorcycles?

[100days-a-year]

Just look at his avatar,in a pool with doubles.Go Figure.

[Mike Edmonston]

You could have spent the same energy giving constructive advice. Or do you just not like motorcycles?

I do like Bikes :thumps:

But it's obvious from his post that he has decided that the rules don't apply to him, and that he can teach himself just fine.

There's a saying in the tech community.. "You don't know what you don't know"

If this guy would have learned the basic math in a NITROX class, then he could figure out the MOD of air on his own!

See my point? :rolleyes:

That's why I answered the way I did. Besides, my answer was right in line with information he should know to do these kind of dives.

Besides, I'm not about to give this guy the information that he needs to go kill himself. :eek:

[Mike Edmonston]

Just look at his avatar,in a pool with doubles.Go Figure.


Actually, I'm in the springs with doubles, 1 stage and 1 o2 bottle. We were setting up to do a 2 hour cave dive.

You're a dumbass, go figure!

[Hank49]

I do like Bikes :thumps:

But it's obvious from his post that he has decided that the rules don't apply to him, and that he can teach himself just fine.

Besides, I'm not about to give this guy the information that he needs to go kill himself. :eek:

Well, I would guess he's going to try it regardless of what anyone tells him. You're right about the danger, so the more good advice, the better I figure.
If that's him on that bike, he can ride the shit out of one. I would guess he could take the stress of problems underwater.

[dagodiver]

Actually, I'm in the springs with doubles, 1 stage and 1 o2 bottle. We were setting up to do a 2 hour cave dive.

You're a dumbass, go figure!

You call it a spring he calls it a pool, same thing.:D


Dago.

[Mike Edmonston]

You call it a spring he calls it a pool, same thing.:D


Dago.

I just spit coke on my monitor, and you owe me a keyboard! :D

[FredT]

LOTS of variables on deep air.
Step one is to find out what YOUR CNS trigger symptom is and be able to identify it early enough to turn the dive safely. YOUR symptom will be different than mine, and mine is different from anybody else I've ever gone deep with. One girl I dove with in The Tongue tasted cinnamon rolls as her warning sign, so be aware that it can be ANYTHING. The dive turns at the FIRST hint of the symptom! this symptom will be consistent for YOU, but the depth it strikes will vary with a host of variables from how hydrated you are that day to how much sleep you got LAST weekend!

Most will not do enough deep bounces in a lifetime to determine what their symptom is, as it may take a hundred or more dives in benign conditions to sort it out. Hunting in any form is NOT benign conditions! The He mix divers avoid the problem by changing the diluent gas.

Oxtox is another problem not related to the CNS issues, with it's own set of variables and rules.

As posted before on other threads deep air for me is based on simple math. If when counting my breaths deeper than 150' I run out of fingers on one hand, or my symptom shows up, my dive is over. Hunting deep on air in any mode but a true bounce IMNSHO is begging to become a statistic, usually without a body to bury.

[jadairiii]

Below is a partial list of Deep Air deaths, the list was stopped in or around 1998 when techdiver went off the web. It will give you a good start when deciding "how deep on air". Some were spearfisherman.

John

Heywood Day, 140', 1962
Ron Hughes, 150', 1963
Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965
Brend Joost, 160', 1968
Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969
Pat McIntree, 150', 1969
Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969
Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969
Francis Wilson, 160', 1969
Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970
Robert Causey, 180', 1970
Bud Sims, 300', 1970
Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970
John Cruselle, 180', 1971
Frank Martz, 300', 1971
Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971
Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971
Ray Elman, 260', 1972
Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972
Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972
Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972
Dan Cole, 220', 1972
Rich Broman, 140', 1972
Stephen Millott, 250', 1973
Christine Millott, 250', 1973
John Bockerman, 250', 1973
Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973
William Smith, 200', 1973
Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973
James Waddington, 140', 1973
Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973
Deane Valentine, 190', 1973
George Van de Nord, 190', 1973
Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974
Unidentified, 200', 1974
Dana Turner, 290', 1974
Charles Barone, 180', 1975
Daniel Howard, 180', 1975
Steve Herman, 180', 1975
Mike Goddard, 170', 1976
Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976
Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976
William Wood, 180', 1978
Carl Miles, 180', 1978
Terry Collins, 260', 1981
James Bentz, 260', 1981
Bill McFadden, 200', 1988
William Cronin, 140', 1988
Kenny Potts, 200', 1990
Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990
Billy Liiard, 180', 1991
Ormsby, John 230' 1985
Feldman, Steve 235' 1991
Soellner, Ed 145' 1992
Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992
Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992
Santulli, Robert 220 1992
Sheck Exley 400 aed
Nick Commoglio 450
Rob Palmer ?
Rob Parker 250
Ed Suarez 280
Carl Sutton 280
Legare Hole 240
Andy Bader 220
Aron Arvidson 311*******correction
Dennis Sirvet 110 meters
DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction
DAVID WEAVER ATEMPT AT NEW ZEALAND AIR DEPTH RECORD 85 meters
1984 - 2 TWO DIVERS FAILED TO SURFACE AFTER A 68
METER DIVE IN - ICCANINNIE PONDS SOUTH
AUSTRALIA .. ON AIR..

[fishhunta]

LOTS of variables on deep air.
Step one is to find out what YOUR CNS trigger symptom is and be able to identify it early enough to turn the dive safely. .


I feel tingly in my tongue. Right on the tip. I usually don't feel it until 2nd or 3rd dive past 200. Thats when I end it for the day, or at least take it shallower.

[100days-a-year]

Actually, I'm in the springs with doubles, 1 stage and 1 o2 bottle. We were setting up to do a 2 hour cave dive.

You're a dumbass, go figure!

:lol:Very impressive....however I sometimes do 2 hour spearfishing dives in doubles with stages.Occasionally even on air.My contribution is therefore more germane.

The last time I looked this was a spearfishing forum.And other than blind catfish and crawfish:thumps: there are not many targets in a cave.Give us a trip report on them if you can manage to shoot something in there.

[diverlen]

Below is a partial list of Deep Air deaths, the list was stopped in or around 1998 when techdiver went off the web. It will give you a good start when deciding "how deep on air". Some were spearfisherman.

John

Heywood Day, 140', 1962
Ron Hughes, 150', 1963
Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965
Brend Joost, 160', 1968
Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969
Pat McIntree, 150', 1969
Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969
Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969
Francis Wilson, 160', 1969
Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970
Robert Causey, 180', 1970
Bud Sims, 300', 1970
Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970
John Cruselle, 180', 1971
Frank Martz, 300', 1971
Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971
Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971
Ray Elman, 260', 1972
Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972
Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972
Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972
Dan Cole, 220', 1972
Rich Broman, 140', 1972
Stephen Millott, 250', 1973
Christine Millott, 250', 1973
John Bockerman, 250', 1973
Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973
William Smith, 200', 1973
Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973
James Waddington, 140', 1973
Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973
Deane Valentine, 190', 1973
George Van de Nord, 190', 1973
Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974
Unidentified, 200', 1974
Dana Turner, 290', 1974
Charles Barone, 180', 1975
Daniel Howard, 180', 1975
Steve Herman, 180', 1975
Mike Goddard, 170', 1976
Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976
Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976
William Wood, 180', 1978
Carl Miles, 180', 1978
Terry Collins, 260', 1981
James Bentz, 260', 1981
Bill McFadden, 200', 1988
William Cronin, 140', 1988
Kenny Potts, 200', 1990
Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990
Billy Liiard, 180', 1991
Ormsby, John 230' 1985
Feldman, Steve 235' 1991
Soellner, Ed 145' 1992
Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992
Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992
Santulli, Robert 220 1992
Sheck Exley 400 aed
Nick Commoglio 450
Rob Palmer ?
Rob Parker 250
Ed Suarez 280
Carl Sutton 280
Legare Hole 240
Andy Bader 220
Aron Arvidson 311*******correction
Dennis Sirvet 110 meters
DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction
DAVID WEAVER ATEMPT AT NEW ZEALAND AIR DEPTH RECORD 85 meters
1984 - 2 TWO DIVERS FAILED TO SURFACE AFTER A 68
METER DIVE IN - ICCANINNIE PONDS SOUTH
AUSTRALIA .. ON AIR..

I don't see the name of Craig Swavely who was diving solo around 200' plus or minus with straight air, diving off West Palm Beach on the vessel Playin Hooky, filming growth on a barge. Can't remember the year but it seems around 1975 thereabouts.

[bgbill]

OK, for you deep divers on here. My setup is almost complete.

LP120 cranked to 3600psi
30cf pony

What is the deepest you guys go around here with this kind of setup.

I will be getting a couple of 30s for 80% scrubbing.

I'm thinking 200-220 feet os so.

What is the best way to build up to those depths since most dives are solo.

The fact that you have to ask, proves you are unprepared and lack the proper training do these types of dives.

I would hate to hear about you getting hurt or killed.

Do yourself and your family a favor and get the proper training and experience to do these types of dives.

[Mike Edmonston]

:lol:Very impressive....however I sometimes do 2 hour spearfishing dives in doubles with stages.Occasionally even on air.My contribution is therefore more germane.

That's awesome. You sound like a person that alot of people could learn from on this forum. I am a long time tech diver and dive instructor, but a very new spearfisherman. I would love to learn more about handling the fish with stages, stringing them up etc... You obviously would not have a problem loading your gun while wearing your gear, this is all good information that should be shared. Therefore I think that your contribution to this thread would be immensely beneficial to those of us just starting out in the sport.


The last time I looked this was a spearfishing forum.

I believe I was posting in the technical spearfishing section. If I was mistaken, my apologies.


And other than blind catfish and crawfish:thumps: there are not many targets in a cave.

Have you seen the snorklers and tubers in the springs? We are a target rich environment :D


Give us a trip report on them if you can manage to shoot something in there.

Sorry bud, no can do. Can't bring a speargun in fresh water. But I will be more than happy to give you a trip report next time I go to the dry tortugas and "try" to shoot a big fish at 280', that should be fun.

Safe diving.

[Bulit7]

Ok,

What is your lost gass bailout strategy? What is the END that you plan on maintaining at your max depth? What is your planned and contingency bottom times and depths? How do you plan on monitoring your CNS and your OTU's for this dive? Why are you using 80% instead of 100% o2? Do you know the difference in microbubble formation and nitrogen intake vs pure Oxygen to choose 80% as opposed to 100% o2?

Any macho wannabe idiot can grab a tank and breathe from it, it's knowing what to do when the crap hits the fan that separates calm well trained divers from Macho wannabees who are trying to compensate for their shortcomings.

Based on your self description of diving and unwillingness to take a class because you're too cheap, I would safely say that the max depth you should go to is about 12 to 15 feet!

Have a Macho day... Vroom Vroom....

Boy! Someone has a chip on their shoulder! Maybe I'm wrong but you sound like a short diked a$$hole. Have a nice day b$tch.

[Bulit7]

You could have spent the same energy giving constructive advice. Or do you just not like motorcycles?

Thanks for the support. That is what I like about this board: Beyond a few assholes, most people on here are cool.

Well, I would guess he's going to try it regardless of what anyone tells him. You're right about the danger, so the more good advice, the better I figure.
If that's him on that bike, he can ride the shit out of one. I would guess he could take the stress of problems underwater.

LOL! I can ride the shit out of it for sure! LOL As far as my diving goes, I have gone to 140 many times and 165 a couple. Never felt anything at any of those depths. I'm looking into learning more about deep deco.

LOTS of variables on deep air.
Step one is to find out what YOUR CNS trigger symptom is and be able to identify it early enough to turn the dive safely. YOUR symptom will be different than mine, and mine is different from anybody else I've ever gone deep with. One girl I dove with in The Tongue tasted cinnamon rolls as her warning sign, so be aware that it can be ANYTHING. The dive turns at the FIRST hint of the symptom! this symptom will be consistent for YOU, but the depth it strikes will vary with a host of variables from how hydrated you are that day to how much sleep you got LAST weekend!

Most will not do enough deep bounces in a lifetime to determine what their symptom is, as it may take a hundred or more dives in benign conditions to sort it out. Hunting in any form is NOT benign conditions! The He mix divers avoid the problem by changing the diluent gas.

Oxtox is another problem not related to the CNS issues, with it's own set of variables and rules.

As posted before on other threads deep air for me is based on simple math. If when counting my breaths deeper than 150' I run out of fingers on one hand, or my symptom shows up, my dive is over. Hunting deep on air in any mode but a true bounce IMNSHO is begging to become a statistic, usually without a body to bury.

Thanks Fred. Your posts are allways knowledgable and helpfull.

The fact that you have to ask, proves you are unprepared and lack the proper training do these types of dives.

I would hate to hear about you getting hurt or killed.

Do yourself and your family a favor and get the proper training and experience to do these types of dives.

Thanks bgbill. I appreciate that. I was looking into it today. It apparently will require more gear! What do you know! LOL. H-valves, extra regs, etc.

I'm workin on it and put this thread up for just some friendly advice. Seems that most that responded gave me just that, and I thank you all for it.

Like I said, I'm allready doing some mildly deep stuff. Just looking to stay a little longer and clean up with a richer mix for shorter deco.

Guy I spoke to today told me the course runs $1200 but he would train me for $600. Does that sound like a decent number? It is a TDI course that involves 6 trips and 12 dives.

Thanks again.:beer:

[Louis Rossignol]

Less gear and just swim faster.

240' with a hangover!!!

Don't try what we do, we're professionals.

[Bulit7]

Less gear and just swim faster.

240' with a hangover!!!

Don't try what we do, we're professionals.

Oh! OK...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?:lol:

[Mike Edmonston]

Oh! OK...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?:lol:

I may be an A$$hole, but you're a cheap idiot with a death wish! Besides, looking at your spectacular lifestyle, I would expect you to be driving around in a 76 Camaro with a gold chain license plate and a white tank top yelling "Adrian!!!" You are obviously compensating for something, maybe you tought yourself to be really cool too! Don't worry Rocky, they're laughing with you... Really!

You should spend more time taking the proper classes and answering the questions that I posted, than cut/copy/pasting everyone's response that agreed with you so that you could stroke your huge viagra enhanced ego! Then Maybe you'll understand how ridiculous your question is!

Like I said earlier, if you knew the math, you wouldn't ask this question. But you're too smart for your own good! Don't read the books, just wait for the movie!

Enjoy your air dives, I'll look you up in the next "special olympics"!

DEE.. DEE.. DEE..

Safe Diving

[Bulit7]

Great promo for your business douchebag.

Hey everyone! Want to get trained by some know it all asshole? Here ya go!

Mike Edmonston
Oxycheq Experimental Dive Team Test Pilot
NAUI Instructor#46984
Technical Scuba Training Center, FL.
www.floridatechdive.com
***Ask me about Great Deals on Dive Gear and Classes for Spearboard Forum members ***


Just make sure that your dick is smaller then his or you will have some difficulties. LOL

[Mike Edmonston]

Great promo for your business douchebag.

Hey everyone! Want to get trained by some know it all asshole? Here ya go!

Mike Edmonston
Oxycheq Experimental Dive Team Test Pilot
NAUI Instructor#46984
Technical Scuba Training Center, FL.
www.floridatechdive.com (http://www.floridatechdive.com)
***Ask me about Great Deals on Dive Gear and Classes for Spearboard Forum members ***


Just make sure that your dick is smaller then his or you will have some difficulties. LOL

ROFL!!!

That's awesome, thanks for the plug dude. I'll crosspost your endorsement on a few other boards. Unfortunately, I'm booked till October 18th, but I will be more than happy to take on new students after that. I'll even give any student a 10% discount on the class if they mention you :thumps:


By the way Rocky, I'm still waiting for you to answer those questions in post #7.

Also, you might want to seek consultation on your dick fetish.:lol: You seem a little... um...Obsessed with it. That can't be good for you dude, you should really get it checked out.


Have a Macho day :D

[Bulit7]

Good luck to ya shrivel dick! LOL

[Louis Rossignol]

Oh! OK...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If I drink a lot and pop a few pills can I be a "professiona"l too?:lol:

I don't do pills "Gay Boy" but I will kick your ass in diving everyday of the week.

I will shoot bigger fish than you,

I will dive deeper than you,

I will make more dives a day than you,

Afterwards, I will drink more beer than you, beat the **** out of you in wrestling and **** more pussy than you!!!

Ever figured how to get a beer holder on that piece of shit you call a motorcycle?










You'll never be of Hell Diver caliber, too self centered.

[Bulit7]

I don't do pills "Gay Boy" but I will kick your ass in diving everyday of the week.

I will shoot bigger fish than you,

I will dive deeper than you,

I will make more dives a day than you,

Afterwards, I will drink more beer than you, beat the **** out of you in wrestling and **** more pussy than you!!!

Ever figured how to get a beer holder on that piece of shit you call a motorcycle?

You'll never be of Hell Diver caliber, too self centered.



Wow! You must be a superhero! LOL
I'm impressed Louis. Impressed that you can type all that while holding a drink in one hand and your pills in another!
As far as kicking my ass, I doubt it.

[Bulit7]

Edited by Lee!



.

[a.s.alvarez]

WoW!!! Ths is some great shit talking!!! I Love it

[riplipper]

WoW!!! Ths is some great shit talking!!! I Love it

If you like sh@t talk just read any of bulits posts...they are always full of it:thumps:

[100days-a-year]

Give the guy credit,he's asking questions.If he was as "macho:cowboy:" as you'all claimed he would have just talked about it after the fact.

Giving the "you are gonna die hippy die... George
Irvine" speech has never been productive.

[IrieSpearo]

Wow! You must be a superhero! LOL
I'm impressed Louis. Impressed that you can type all that while holding a drink in one hand and your pills in another!
As far as kicking my ass, I doubt it.

:rofl:

[njspearo]

cmon guys this is redic,
bulit, if you come into the tech spearfishing section, say that you have no real training other than open water cert, and than start asking questions about doing seriouse tech deep diving, the guys who do have all of the proper training are going to urge you against it man...maybe it sounds a little negative but what do you expect.
get the proper training and cut the shit talk..these people are just lookin out for you.

dive safe all.

[Bulit7]

cmon guys this is redic,
bulit, if you come into the tech spearfishing section, say that you have no real training other than open water cert, and than start asking questions about doing seriouse tech deep diving, the guys who do have all of the proper training are going to urge you against it man...maybe it sounds a little negative but what do you expect.
get the proper training and cut the shit talk..these people are just lookin out for you.

dive safe all.

First of all, my background is deep diving with a few dives to 165 and many many to 120-140. I am self trained and have read many manuals and course books on deep diving. I have, very slowly, dive after dive, pushed myself deeper and deeper. I have hudreds of logged deep dives while shooting fish. I am not an idiot that just got certified. My sea going background ranges over a period of 30 some years and in all kinds of directions. Surfing in 10 foot plus seas, freediving, captaining, sailing, commercial diving, etc... I'm no idiot and don't appreciate being talked to like one by some people that feel like the time for their five seconds of fame has arrived. You have to understand the background here. These people chase me around trying to ridicule and discredit me. They are mostly redneck westcoasters with deep sympathy for the Shitalkin Planet. (and don't take this as a diss to the fine souther folks that live in this part of the country). Problem here is I don't take shit. I believe in standing up for what is right and making alliances with people that are trully cool and not by their spearfishing accomplishments alone. That would be a pretty shallow way to judge anyone.

Like I said before. Want to talk to me with respect? You will get the same from me. There have been a lot of guys that have given me good advice. I'm not a novice and am very capable under water and under stress. Props to everyone that answered with camaraderie. :beer:

[Smudge]

Way too much estrogen in here...:D

[Mike Edmonston]

Why do all the unhappy fat fuks hate me LOL

SUGGEST A DIET AND MEMBERSHIP TO LA FITNESS FOR YOU BLIMPIE!!



Dude :lol:

That's a great pic too! What can I say, Food and I have a great relationship. But what really cracks me up is your childish attitude!

Have you grown mentally since the third grade?

Here is a conversation with you:

YOU: "I want to dive really deep with no training and I read some posts online, so I'm ready. Who's with me??"

OTHERS: "Bad Idea, get some training before you hurt yourself"

YOU: "Shut up, You're fat"

OTHERS: "Do the math, and you can figure it out"

YOU: "I don't need math, All I need is everyone to agree with me so I can be reveered online as an innovator and Macho risktaker"

OTHERS: "Do you know your MOD and your target END?"

YOU: "HAHA, You have a small dick HAHA look at my pictures!!!"

OTHERS: "Really dude, learn to do it safely!"

YOU: " I'm a professional and I don't pop pills like you guys!"

OTHERS: :wtf:

YOU: " I'm special, look at my pretty pictures, it's me in those pictures, yes meeeeee..... My preciousssssss......"

OTHERS: " You need help"

YOU: " I'm fine as long as I can mount a mirror on my speargun so I can look at myself"

EVERYON ELSE: :sleep::sleep::sleep:

Humility is something you never learned Lee. Keep cleaning yacht toilets, I think the scrubbing bubbles are eating away at your brain.

Something you may not realize, is that when you do screw up, you will cost the taxpayers alot of money to come get your corpse off the bottom, not to mention risking the lives of whichever deep dive team has to come find you. You will also be tying up numerous agency resources (PD/CG/SO etc...) which would rather catch criminals, than find some diver with a death wish!

I really don't expect you to get my point, but maybe someone else will.

It's not that we all hate you, it's that your reckless lack of responsibility puts other people in danger.


Now, just in case you think I'm talking out my ass, here are the formulas you will need for this dive. Figure the rest out on your own.

EAD = (DEPTH + 33) * (1- EANX O2%) / .79 (-33)

PO2 = (DEPTH / 33) +1 * EANX O2 %

MOD IN FSW = PO2 / EANX O2% (* 33) - 33

END = (DEPTH + 33) * (1- HELIUM %) -33

[dagodiver]

But I will be more than happy to give you a trip report next time I go to the dry tortugas and "try" to shoot a big fish at 280', that should be fun.

Safe diving.


Actually I have a few spots open next month for "that" trip, I will be making 7 dives like always but you can still just do 1 like last time.!:lol:
oh c'mon now that's funny as shitz.!

safe diving.

Dago.

[Mike Edmonston]

Actually I have a few spots open next month for "that" trip, I will be making 7 dives like always but you can still just do 1 like last time.!:lol:
oh c'mon now that's funny as shitz.!

safe diving.

Dago.

But last time I didn't bring a gun :lol:

Not that it would have mattered, the way I felt on that trip, I would have gladly put a shaft through my skull! :D

It took me 9 days after that trip to get rid of that stomach bug!:bang:

I might be interested in that trip though, where are you planning on going?

Talk to you soon..

[Bulit7]

Mike, problem is you made a lot of assumptions about me. That I have a death wish, that I'm irresponsible, etc. Instead of focusing on the issue at hand, you focused on my pics and felt the need to ridicule. You see, childish comments evoke a childish response. Respect evokes respect. Want to start over and delete or modify your initial post, I will do the same and we can put this bullshit behind us and treat each other with respect from here on.
Your call man, I'll dance to your tune.
Lee

[diligaf]

Built & Mike… this is a very entertaining thread! I’ve been LMAO going through the post.

On the serious side… I understand where you both are coming from and it is an argument that has been going on for years in our sport. Back in the day, before formal tech training or when tech training was in its infancy, divers simply went deeper, on air, in quest of bigger fish with no formal training. Divers learned from one another and were a close-knit group… even with their competitors.

A few died. Some of the names on the list posted by jadairiii died on the wrecks off Pompano. There is one common denominator of the ones on that list that I knew… it was there own personal choice. They loved diving, they loved spearfishing, and it was worth the risk to them.

Today… tech diving technique, procedure, and training have come a long ways. What can be learned in a course with the right instructor is invaluable and perhaps one day life saving. Not only to the student, but the knowledge past on by the student to his dive buddies and friends might one day help them.

Even with training, people will still die. I see a few people out there today, with all the proper training & cards doing technical spearfishing and I just cringe. I say to myself “it’s not a matter of if they are going to die… it is a matter of when”.

Built – I won’t say go get the proper training, even though it is the best thing to do. You are in good shape and a good diver. That puts you ahead of most. If you are going to dive deep air, my recommendation would be – remember things happen quicker the deeper you go, have good well maintained redundant gear (I would not dive a single w/pony past 200’ for the type of diving in this area), never give up in a bad situation, accept the situation for what it is – do not panic, and always keep in mind… worst-case scenario… drowning is not such a bad way to go.

[Mike Edmonston]

Mike, problem is you made a lot of assumptions about me. That I have a death wish, that I'm irresponsible, etc. Instead of focusing on the issue at hand, you focused on my pics and felt the need to ridicule. You see, childish comments evoke a childish response. Respect evokes respect. Want to start over and delete or modify your initial post, I will do the same and we can put this bullshit behind us and treat each other with respect from here on.
Your call man, I'll dance to your tune.
Lee

Fair enough, let's start over. :thumps:

Back to your original question, anything below 150' on air and you are comprimising your safety. If you decide to go deeper, the best case scenario would be to do a light heliar mix or go with a higher helium mix to bring your END down. More important that narcosis though, is that you should shoot for a 1.2 to 1.3 PO2. Now I would advise against using a hypoxic mix because this really adds to your bailout schedule, not to mention task loading by adding travel gas.

A good mix would be 21/35 to 180' and 15/50 to 250'.

If you do decide to dive on air, I would try to keep your exposure to high PO2 a little as possible (minimal bottom time), and either stay within NDL's which will not give you alot of bottom time, or use the IANTD US NAVY air tables with DECO tables on the reverse. An alternate plan would be to use V-planner and write your schedule on a wrist slate. DO NOT DEVIATE FROM YOUR PLANNED BOTTOM TIME!!! that will throw your DECO schedule completely out of whack.

You should also run a separate schedule 10' deeper and 5 minutes longer. This is your "the shit hit the fan" alternate schedule.

Keep in mind that a single 120 "cave filled" to 3600 will give you about 150cf of gas. If you happen to have a freeflow problem, a 30cf pony may not give you enough bailout gas to safely reach the surface without blowing DECO. Either go to doubles, or hang an AL80 at half your depth (120'ish) so you can plan a deco cushion.

As far as deco gas, I would go with 100% o2. No need to go to 80%. 100% is more efficient in offgassing the tissues, specially if you start on that gas at 20'. Generally 80% o2 was created when someone would use a T of o2 and pump up their deco tank to 2300psi, then top off with air to get 3000PSI. No need to top off with air, you shouldn't be spending enough time on the bottom to suck down a 40 of o2 filled to 2300psi.

If you really want to learn this stuff, I will be more than happy to help you out. :thumps:

DISCLAIMER: I am not telling you how to do this as a dive professional, this is a discussion on deep air diving and should not be used to plan a dive by anyone at anytime anywhere.

Safe Diving bud,

[Bulit7]

Built & Mike… this is a very entertaining thread! I’ve been LMAO going through the post.

On the serious side… I understand where you both are coming from and it is an argument that has been going on for years in our sport. Back in the day, before formal tech training or when tech training was in its infancy, divers simply went deeper, on air, in quest of bigger fish with no formal training. Divers learned from one another and were a close-knit group… even with their competitors.

A few died. Some of the names on the list posted by jadairiii died on the wrecks off Pompano. There is one common denominator of the ones on that list that I knew… it was there own personal choice. They loved diving, they loved spearfishing, and it was worth the risk to them.

Today… tech diving technique, procedure, and training have come a long ways. What can be learned in a course with the right instructor is invaluable and perhaps one day life saving. Not only to the student, but the knowledge past on by the student to his dive buddies and friends might one day help them.

Even with training, people will still die. I see a few people out there today, with all the proper training & cards doing technical spearfishing and I just cringe. I say to myself “it’s not a matter of if they are going to die… it is a matter of when”.

Built – I won’t say go get the proper training, even though it is the best thing to do. You are in good shape and a good diver. That puts you ahead of most. If you are going to dive deep air, my recommendation would be – remember things happen quicker the deeper you go, have good well maintained redundant gear (I would not dive a single w/pony past 200’ for the type of diving in this area), never give up in a bad situation, accept the situation for what it is – do not panic, and always keep in mind… worst-case scenario… drowning is not such a bad way to go.

Diligaf, Thanks for an informative post. I started this thread for exactly the kind of info that you posted. I am looking for advice and insight into deeper diving. I have no interest in diving trimix and such. Just maybe some deep bounces with the gear and ability to execute deco if necessary. Maybe I'm wrong but the gain in bottom time versus the time in deco is probably not worth it. The problem arrises if in a deep bounce, you happen to shoot "that fish" and all shit hits the fan. Then it is important to meet your deco obligation and have a high O2 mix to reduce deco time.

[dagodiver]

I will add that 50% for spearfishing makes a great deco gas as it gives you
something alittle richer for off gassing and you only have to climb up to
70fsw to use it. O2 for single tank spearfishing is usless and best left on the boat. Do the math and you will see that the 02 cuts just a few minutes of time and is not worth carring. To get my 39.55 gutted AJ for the SPO yesterday I did 3 dives to 180 on 18/25 with a single 40 of 50%, plenty to spare. Ya ya ya I know sounds like alot of diving for 1 fish.

YMMV dive safe.

Dago.

[Mike Edmonston]

I will add that 50% for spearfishing makes a great deco gas as it gives you
something alittle richer for off gassing and you only have to climb up to
70fsw to use it. O2 for single tank spearfishing is usless and best left on the boat. Do the math and you will see that the 02 cuts just a few minutes of time and is not worth carring. To get my 39.55 gutted AJ for the SPO yesterday I did 3 dives to 180 on 18/25 with a single 40 of 50% plenty to spare.

YMMV dive safe.

Dago.

I get what you're saying, I was thinking that with a speargun in your hand, carrying a bailout AL80 and 50% to a tieoff would be a PITA.

What rig were you diving for the SPO? Do you spearfish in doubles, or is the bottom time so short that you went with a single and your 50% as bailout?

Really curious as to how you guys normally do this.

Safe Diving,

[Bulit7]

Fair enough, let's start over. :thumps:

Back to your original question, anything below 150' on air and you are comprimising your safety. If you decide to go deeper, the best case scenario would be to do a light heliar mix or go with a higher helium mix to bring your END down. More important that narcosis though, is that you should shoot for a 1.2 to 1.3 PO2. Now I would advise against using a hypoxic mix because this really adds to your bailout schedule, not to mention task loading by adding travel gas.

A good mix would be 21/35 to 180' and 15/50 to 250'.

If you do decide to dive on air, I would try to keep your exposure to high PO2 a little as possible (minimal bottom time), and either stay within NDL's which will not give you alot of bottom time, or use the IANTD US NAVY air tables with DECO tables on the reverse. An alternate plan would be to use V-planner and write your schedule on a wrist slate. DO NOT DEVIATE FROM YOUR PLANNED BOTTOM TIME!!! that will throw your DECO schedule completely out of whack.

You should also run a separate schedule 10' deeper and 5 minutes longer. This is your "the shit hit the fan" alternate schedule.

Keep in mind that a single 120 "cave filled" to 3600 will give you about 150cf of gas. If you happen to have a freeflow problem, a 30cf pony may not give you enough bailout gas to safely reach the surface without blowing DECO. Either go to doubles, or hang an AL80 at half your depth (120'ish) so you can plan a deco cushion.

As far as deco gas, I would go with 100% o2. No need to go to 80%. 100% is more efficient in offgassing the tissues, specially if you start on that gas at 20'. Generally 80% o2 was created when someone would use a T of o2 and pump up their deco tank to 2300psi, then top off with air to get 3000PSI. No need to top off with air, you shouldn't be spending enough time on the bottom to suck down a 40 of o2 filled to 2300psi.

If you really want to learn this stuff, I will be more than happy to help you out. :thumps:

DISCLAIMER: I am not telling you how to do this as a dive professional, this is a discussion on deep air diving and should not be used to plan a dive by anyone at anytime anywhere.

Safe Diving bud,

Thanks Mike!:thumps:

Lots of things to consider! I am not ready or willing to incur the cost of trimix classes and fills. I see now why the double 80s are a better bet for deep dives. How about an H valve with two regs on a 120lp? Is that a viable option?

As far as calculating and writting down a schedule on a slate: would a dive computer not take care of that? Or should I have a dive plan thought out and memorized and written on a slate before doing these dives. Max depth I'm interested in is 200-220 feet MAX!

I have decided take your advice and go with an advanced deco diving course by TDI. Is that a good option?

Thanks, Lee:beer:

PS: I took down that offensive post with a pic of you in it and want to apologize for it.

And here's an offer to Louis Rossignol as well. Let's cut the bs man. I'm willing to start fresh if you are. I think we all are way to old for this middle school crap!:beer:

[Mike Edmonston]

Thanks Mike!:thumps:

Lots of things to consider! I am not ready or willing to incur the cost of trimix classes and fills. I see now why the double 80s are a better bet for deep dives. How about an H valve with two regs on a 120lp? Is that a viable option?


That would be a viable option, but even better for your needs, would be your pony with enough gas to safely get you to your emergency bailout hanging on the line. Actually, DAGODIVER should chime in on his setup, as it will probably differ greatly from what I would consider routine.


As far as calculating and writting down a schedule on a slate: would a dive computer not take care of that? Or should I have a dive plan thought out and memorized and written on a slate before doing these dives. Max depth I'm interested in is 200-220 feet MAX!

A dive computer will run a deco schedule, but just as I hate it when batteries die in my TV remote, it's even worse when it takes out your deco computer:mad:

Don't memorize the schedule, just write down your stops and the time at those depths, and stick with it. Depending on your bottom time, your stops should be minimal. Again, DAGODIVER should have a good idea on the bottom times that you guys encounter while shooting fish.


I have decided take your advice and go with an advanced deco diving course by TDI. Is that a good option?

Thanks, Lee:beer:
Absolutely a great idea.
Also, remember that the agency really doesn't matter. It's all alphabet soup. :rolleyes: If you are happy with the instructor that you chose, you will be happy with the class. Good luck, I think you will really enjoy this aspect of diving.

Safe Diving bud,

[Bulit7]

Thanks guys!

Dago, I never called you because I did not want to waste your time with dumb questions!! I will try to learn more about this type of diving and get back to you when I actually know a little more then what I know now. Thanks again!!

[dagodiver]

I get what you're saying, I was thinking that with a speargun in your hand, carrying a bailout AL80 and 50% to a tieoff would be a PITA.

What rig were you diving for the SPO? Do you spearfish in doubles, or is the bottom time so short that you went with a single and your 50% as bailout?

Really curious as to how you guys normally do this.

Safe Diving,


I will speek for myself, I always dive doubles as I hate to change my gear to singles and the only singles I have are my deco bottles.
this weekend i was diving a set of LP85's with 18/25 in them and a single 40 of 50% under my left arm. I did three dives with the same tanks and had plenty off gas left over. I was keeping the BT's to 15 or less and trying to stay as high up in the water as I could. I run tables and have a computer also. Believe it or not diving the same rig is alot easier than changing tanks after every dive.
This is how i deal with the tables.

YMMV

Dago.

[dagodiver]

Thanks guys!

Dago, I never called you because I did not want to waste your time with dumb questions!! I will try to learn more about this type of diving and get back to you when I actually know a little more then what I know now. Thanks again!!

There are no stupid questions, you can give a ring anytime and I will answer anything I can. Mike E. is a wealth of knowledge and im sure will answer also.

Dago.

[Louis Rossignol]

[QUOTE]And here's an offer to Louis Rossignol as well. Let's cut the bs man. I'm willing to start fresh if you are. I think we all are way to old for this middle school crap![QUOTE]

I have the least amount of training on this board, I only know what I know. If you want to dive deep in my part of the world, you learn how to swim fast!

I'm not challenging you, just stating facts.

[Bulit7]

I have the least amount of training on this board, I only know what I know. If you want to dive deep in my part of the world, you learn how to swim fast!

I'm not challenging you, just stating facts.


I don't care about that. I'm talking about the trash talkin. I'm exteding you my hand and say we let bygones be bygones and talk with civility to each other from here on. Your call.
:beer:

[Louis Rossignol]

You got it,

[dagodiver]

[QUOTE]And here's an offer to Louis Rossignol as well. Let's cut the bs man. I'm willing to start fresh if you are. I think we all are way to old for this middle school crap![QUOTE]

I have the least amount of training on this board, I only know what I know. If you want to dive deep in my part of the world, you learn how to swim fast!

I'm not challenging you, just stating facts.


I would think that every time you get in the water it is another "training" dive so with that said I would guess you have more "training" then anybody I can think of. I will take experience anyday of the week.


Dago.

[100days-a-year]

Merit badges?We don't need no stinkin' merit badges!

[Mike Edmonston]

This is how i deal with the tables.


OMG, DUDE!!! I friggin love that!! I'm diving Eagle's nest this saturday, and I will wear "DECO FINS" That should get one hell of a response from the other cave divers :lol:

I assume the black is on backgas, the blue is on 50% and the red is on 100%? or am I missreading it?

Talk soon bud, :thumps:

[dagodiver]

OMG, DUDE!!! I friggin love that!! I'm diving Eagle's nest this saturday, and I will wear "DECO FINS" That should get one hell of a response from the other cave divers :lol:

I assume the black is on backgas, the blue is on 50% and the red is on 100%? or am I missreading it?

Talk soon bud, :thumps:


All my buddys were tired of holding my slate far enough away for me to read it.! Check roger out on the colors.

Dago.

[willembad]

Hey Dago,

If the bottom number is RT why 2/3 min over?

Willem

[dagodiver]

Hey Dago,

If the bottom number is RT why 2/3 min over?

Willem

Rounding error, I have the software set to round up if not whole minutes.


Dago.

[jfjf]

That would be a viable option, but even better for your needs, would be your pony with enough gas to safely get you to your emergency bailout hanging on the line. ud,

Are you assuming that spearfisherman are generally coming back up an anchor line with this comment? I would think that spearfisherman are the most likely to be pulled off a wreck and have to do a drifting deco.

[Bulit7]

Are you assuming that spearfisherman are generally coming back up an anchor line with this comment? I would think that spearfisherman are the most likely to be pulled off a wreck and have to do a drifting deco.

That is the rule rather than the exception... :(

[Mike Edmonston]

Are you assuming that spearfisherman are generally coming back up an anchor line with this comment? I would think that spearfisherman are the most likely to be pulled off a wreck and have to do a drifting deco.

Yes,

I was "assuming" that you would hang a bottle if conditions permitted. Also, remember that the hanging bottle is not part of the calculated gas plan, and is only there as a safety. So if the diver follows his run time, he should not need it.

Now, if there is a strong current, and hanging the bottle is not possible, you should either take it with you, or shorten your bottom time to give yourself the extra needed cushion in case something happens.

Sorry, I should have been more specific in my prior explanation, thank you for bringing it up.

Safe Diving,

[fishhunta]

Yes,

I was "assuming" that you would hang a bottle if conditions permitted. Also, remember that the hanging bottle is not part of the calculated gas plan, and is only there as a safety. So if the diver follows his run time, he should not need it.

Now, if there is a strong current, and hanging the bottle is not possible, you should either take it with you, or shorten your bottom time to give yourself the extra needed cushion in case something happens.


Safe Diving,

We shoot lift bags on reels for our ascents. Hanging a bottle is impossible 97% of the time. My team of divers know that if I should bounce the lift bag when I am drifting , to throw in a 30cuft bottle with a scrub mix in . We always have one rigged with 40ft of rope and a bouy, ready to deploy.

[Mike Edmonston]

We shoot lift bags on reels for our ascents. Hanging a bottle is impossible 97% of the time. My team of divers know that if I should bounce the lift bag when I am drifting , to throw in a 30cuft bottle with a scrub mix in . We always have one rigged with 40ft of rope and a bouy, ready to deploy.

That's a great idea. Good contingency planning is the way to go.:thumps:

This is a great example of the different facets between spearfishing and Tech diving.

It's always nice to learn something new :beer:

[willembad]

Rounding error, I have the software set to round up if not whole minutes.

Got it, thanks. I'm shopping for some "deco" fins, Mike E. is giving me way to much crap over my splits :rolleyes:

Later,

Willem

[Bulit7]

We shoot lift bags on reels for our ascents. Hanging a bottle is impossible 97% of the time. My team of divers know that if I should bounce the lift bag when I am drifting , to throw in a 30cuft bottle with a scrub mix in . We always have one rigged with 40ft of rope and a bouy, ready to deploy.

That is cool Paul! you are doing exactly what I thought about doing a while back and mentioned it in a thread. It is a good option to shorten deco.

My thought:

Dive with your bottom mix and a pony. Same mix in both.

Come up to your deco stop and proceed to do your dec. Boat pulls up and you do a gas switch on the computer to the deco mix. Result: shorter dec.

Let's say the boat does not show up: You continue to deco with the gas you have. A little longer deco but all is well.

Advantage of this setup:

1-No carrying deco bottles.
2-Fill one single large tank and use it many times.

Lets say an 80cf alluminum tank with 80-100% mix. Same price as filling a small tank. You would need a bunch of small tanks for a day of diving. With one 80cf, you could probably deco six to eight dives. Just put a reg on it with long hoses and a few regs.

Like I said before, I don't know much, but am allways trying to improve what I do and learn from others that know more than me!

[Bulit7]

Got it, thanks. I'm shopping for some "deco" fins, Mike E. is giving me way to much crap over my splits :rolleyes:

Later,

Willem

I use freediving fins and neoprene socks. Very comfy and very powerfull.
They are also streamlined, no buckles, and line does not tangle on them.

[Mike Edmonston]

Mike E. is giving me way to much crap over my splits :rolleyes:

Later,

Willem

I AM NOT!!! :lol:.. Ok, maybe just a little... :D

[searaydiver]

Well, this thread went south real fast. There was some good advice somewhere back up there, though.
You all might remember when Divers Supply lost two instructors and one student on a deep dive out of palm Beach, about 10-12 yrs. back. The bodies were never found. The surviving diver said that they were in over 200 fsw., four tanks on each diver. The bladder blew out in one divers BCD and the two instructors tried to save him. The last they were seen, they going down together. The instructors never left his side. One of the instructors was ex-navy seal. Tragic loss but it predicated the importance of training, equipment AND buddies.

[mepps1]

Well, this thread went south real fast. There was some good advice somewhere back up there, though.
You all might remember when Divers Supply lost two instructors and one student on a deep dive out of palm Beach, about 10-12 yrs. back. The bodies were never found. The surviving diver said that they were in over 200 fsw., four tanks on each diver. The bladder blew out in one divers BCD and the two instructors tried to save him. The last they were seen, they going down together. The instructors never left his side. One of the instructors was ex-navy seal. Tragic loss but it predicated the importance of training, equipment AND buddies.


If your two well trained buddies die with you, was that really the lesson?

[jfjf]

Well, this thread went south real fast. There was some good advice somewhere back up there, though.
You all might remember when Divers Supply lost two instructors and one student on a deep dive out of palm Beach, about 10-12 yrs. back. The bodies were never found. The surviving diver said that they were in over 200 fsw., four tanks on each diver. The bladder blew out in one divers BCD and the two instructors tried to save him. The last they were seen, they going down together. The instructors never left his side. One of the instructors was ex-navy seal. Tragic loss but it predicated the importance of training, equipment AND buddies.

Actually the instructor was later found floating on the surface with no scuba gear about 5 weeks? after the incident. Presumably, he got bloated and floated out of his very heavy steel tank rig. As far as I know, no gear or anything else was ever found.

I never read that the BC of the student blew out, just that the loan survivor of the accident reported that the student was "having trouble" controlling his bouyancy during the entire technical dive which was a drift dive at a depth of 250 to 300 as I recall.

I'm quite sure they were using trimix not air.

[IRONHEAD]

rarely do i look at this part of the board but it was very entertaining lol.....

[Bulit7]

rarely do i look at this part of the board but it was very entertaining lol.....

You missed half the shit that was deleted out after we all made peace. LOL
I had forgotten about this thread. LOL

Fuk all ya bitches!!!:D

[DockRat]

Fair enough, let's start over. :thumps:



I just wish I could have read the deleted posts. Dam!

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r300/jgoss1074/Funny/midget2.gif
PD41

[Grin]

Thinning the herd!

[waterpirate]

So....

Almost 1 year has elapsed since the birth of this thread. Did you recieve training or not?? I self taught, then I recieved training. It filled in a lot of gaps and pointed out some glarring assumptions I kidded myself into thinking were safe practice for deco. Namely gas planning for when shit goes south, when you have mandatory stops.
Any reflections you would like to share a year later?
Eric

[Bulit7]

Not me. Never was able to afford any further training so I have been taking it easy, not pushing the limits and trying to build on what I allready know. I have a wife and three kids that rely solely on me and I want to be there for them.

What I did do was improve my gear, get myself a 30 cube pony that is ALLWAYS at my side. Upgraded all my tanks to LP 121s.

[Bulit7]

My Instuctor Said I Need Special Training, So I signed up and took several courses and spent several thousand. He is happy now that I recieved 'Special Training :thumps: $



Great thread, Why start over ?

You gotta love grown men going at it online.

Chubby guys talking about saftey :lol:

Reminds me of working at The Port Of Los Angeles. Having seen and heard Fatties talking about 'SAFETY' What a Frikin Joke :lol:

This one fatass was biatching about saftey (250 lb gal)

All I could think was
'Hey DUMBASS, Ever heard about the #1 Killer of Americans' Heart Disease

I felt like saying ' Yo Fatass, Wanna be safe ???????????
Try taking the fork out of your mouth you FAT CUBE OF BUTTER :lol:

Everybody needs 'SPECIAL TRAINING by a SPECIALIST' What a joke.



I say if someone wants to go for it LET THEM. People die everyday.
A diver died July 3rd right in front of my house.

If somebody wants to self train themself 'Let Them'

I just wish I could have read the deleted posts. Dam!

Keep up the self training Bulit7 Even Though You Are Going Against The Grain. Don't worry about the haters.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r300/jgoss1074/Funny/midget2.gif
PD41

DockRat, I thought I was a pill! LOL

Yep, you missed some major shit talkin!! It was started due to my flashing sig pic. Let me see if I can find it... All the uglies on the site started to gang up on me and shit went down hill. Then we kissed and made up!!!!:D

Mike is actually a nice guy, we just got started on the wrong foot.

Oh how silly it all seems a few months later! LOL

Searching for sig...

[Bulit7]

Ahhh, here it be!

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/LeeFL2/Bike-Dive-Sig.gif

Got to laugh at this shit, cause it is funny!!

Someone told me he thought it reminded him of gay porn! I just assume he has watched gay porn before...

[DockRat]

That's alot of pics :cowboy: :allhail:
I forgot you guys don't have a helmet law ?

Do you wear a Brain Bucket ?


http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss277/dremorak/GrossBrainInABucketcopy.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww148/killahkid2_2009/motorcycle_accident.gif
PD41

[diverlen]

Ahhh, here it be!

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/LeeFL2/Bike-Dive-Sig.gif

Got to laugh at this shit, cause it is funny!!

Someone told me he thought it reminded him of gay porn! I just assume he has watched gay porn before...

That's a lot of fancy equipment but who in the hell is that ugly guy?:D:D

[Bulit7]

That's a lot of fancy equipment but who in the hell is that ugly guy?:D:D


Most hated guy on spearboard???? After Seanutter49 that is!!!:D :lol:


That's alot of pics :cowboy: :allhail:
I forgot you guys don't have a helmet law ?

Do you wear a Brain Bucket ?




ALLWAYS!! The way I ride, I better wear one!!

[zdivemstr]

:toast:
Here's to everyone that contributed to this post! I have enjoyed the hell out of reading the responses. You guys at one point could have made a lot of money by auctioning tickets for a public ass whooping! I'm sure you could have made enough to pay for the classes you need for certification.

[Spearo_Fla]

What no wheelies or stoppies?

[FishDie]

Ahhh, here it be!

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/LeeFL2/Bike-Dive-Sig.gif

Got to laugh at this shit, cause it is funny!!

Someone told me he thought it reminded him of gay porn! I just assume he has watched gay porn before...

Holy crap that is tuff!!

[kwyoungspear]

I don't do pills "Gay Boy" but I will kick your ass in diving everyday of the week.

I will shoot bigger fish than you,

I will dive deeper than you,

I will make more dives a day than you,

Afterwards, I will drink more beer than you, beat the **** out of you in wrestling and **** more pussy than you!!!

Ever figured how to get a beer holder on that piece of shit you call a motorcycle?







You'll never be of Hell Diver caliber, too self centered.

u r a true spearo louis and the shit!!!

[Hank49]

Not me. Never was able to afford any further training

Huh? I see like....6 different motorcycles, a jet ski, a couple new pickups, a nice house, hunting gear...rifles....??? A dive course is about $500 !! :D

[Bulit7]

Huh? I see like....6 different motorcycles, a jet ski, a couple new pickups, a nice house, hunting gear...rifles....??? A dive course is about $500 !! :D

Exactly! too many other priorities!!!:(

[Speargun Kev]

Kudos to Mike Edmonston and Fred T. Just reading their knowledgeable replies on this subject raised my blood pressure with fear and respect. Who goes deep on mixed gas without qualified training from an experienced and knowledgeable instructor? I am a licensed Base Jumper and a Skydiving Instructor. So, I have no fear. But, there are laws of physics at play, that are fatal to human life, and I would NEVER go deep without proper training and guidance, ... preferably from Mike Edmonston!

[kill shot]

Kudos to Mike Edmonston and Fred T. Just reading their knowledgeable replies on this subject raised my blood pressure with fear and respect. Who goes deep on mixed gas without qualified training from an experienced and knowledgeable instructor? I am a licensed Base Jumper and a Skydiving Instructor. So, I have no fear. But, there are laws of physics at play, that are fatal to human life, and I would NEVER go deep without proper training and guidance, ... preferably from Mike Edmonston!

Ya ever huck yourself off El Cap? I've seen a few of you go by while laying in my portaledge back in the day. SICK!!!!!

[Calif_Diver]

Well, I would guess he's going to try it regardless of what anyone tells him. You're right about the danger, so the more good advice, the better I figure.
If that's him on that bike, he can ride the shit out of one. I would guess he could take the stress of problems underwater.

IM not knockin Bulit, but how can you tell by his pic he can ride the shit out of one? NIce bike and he probably can ride the shit out of it ,but i serious rider would be wearin leathers and a full helmet,but maybe not just for a pic.No offense Bulit,nice bike.

[Bulit7]

IM not knockin Bulit, but how can you tell by his pic he can ride the shit out of one? NIce bike and he probably can ride the shit out of it ,but i serious rider would be wearin leathers and a full helmet,but maybe not just for a pic.No offense Bulit,nice bike.

Not here in florida. No leathers for me. Jacket on occasion(high speed freeway runs) helmet allways, gloves allways.

I can ride the shit out of it. Wheelies and knee dragin any day of the week!

[diverlen]

Yes, but can you shoot fish???:D:D:D

[Louis Rossignol]

How deep on air?

Friday, me and Mark were content to stop at 210-220' to shoot some big fat asss snappers.

However, Papa Smurf, dropped down to below 230'.

I hope when I'm 65 years old, I can do the shit that man does.

[Bulit7]

Yes, but can you shoot fish???:D:D:D

While doing a wheelie?:confused:



:D

[Bulit7]

How deep on air?

Friday, me and Mark were content to stop at 210-220' to shoot some big fat asss snappers.

However, Papa Smurf, dropped down to below 230'.

I hope when I'm 65 years old, I can do the shit that man does.

Thats hardcore.:beer:

[Hank49]

IM not knockin Bulit, but how can you tell by his pic he can ride the shit out of one? NIce bike and he probably can ride the shit out of it ,but i serious rider would be wearin leathers and a full helmet,but maybe not just for a pic.No offense Bulit,nice bike.

When I posted that last year, he had a short video on his sig of himself coming out of a turn with the back wheel kicking out sideways a bit. Pretty rad.

[kylo1597]

How deep on air?

Friday, me and Mark were content to stop at 210-220' to shoot some big fat asss snappers.

However, Papa Smurf, dropped down to below 230'.

I hope when I'm 65 years old, I can do the shit that man does.

what size tanks ya runnin? we're on AL80's now and 150' is about as far as i feel i should go after being there last time

[Bulit7]

what size tanks ya runnin? we're on AL80's now and 150' is about as far as i feel i should go after being there last time

No shit. I took an alluminum 80 down to 165 feet and ran out of air after a very short while. Came back suckin down my 30 cube pony and barely made it up on that. :confused:

If only my balls were a little bigger, I might be able to accomplish that feat!!:D

[Louis Rossignol]

what size tanks ya runnin? we're on AL80's now and 150' is about as far as i feel i should go after being there last time

We moved up to AL80's about 25 years ago. Before that we used steel 72's.

Don't breath so hard and swim faster.

But seriously, if you're not comfortable, do what you need to do. What I've found is the more you dive the less you breath. I've learned long ago to control my air consumption.

[kylo1597]

damn, you are definitely brave good sir. i have no desire to go that deep unless i'm on a HP120 or similar

[Louis Rossignol]

See back in the day, my first regualtor, was a "Used" Dacor Pacer. It was about 5 years old when I bought it and I used it for at least 10-15 years. Back then I thought I was indestructable and I would let myself run out of air past 200' and still be chasing fish. When my air got so tight, I'd fly to the surface, throw another bottle on and go back down to 60' to decompress.

When you hit the purge button with that reg, you only got a little puff out of it. So you couldn't breathe alot of air, the reg didn't supply it.

I don't dare try this anymore, for one, I'm not as young anymore and secondly, when I'm out of air with my new regulator, I'm really out. I only made one fast ascent with it from 165' and that sucked bad!

But, I'm paying for my evil ways everyday now. I got pain in places that I didn't even know existed. 3 totalled out vehicles didn't help either. About the only time I don't feel any pain, is when I'm underwater.

[FredT]

Kylo,
Many rig divers use 100s or 120s, but this is more due to limitations on boat space than the need for air. I'll usually get 2 or 3 dives on a 72, but can make 5 or more bounces with a 120. This cuts down the total weight and volume of bottles on the boat considerably, but it does make getting out of the water a dozen or more times a day more of workout.

Jamming a 72 to a bit over 3.3Ksi does the same thing, but your stones have to be bigger and the burst disk "modified" a bit.

[kylo1597]

yeah i get what you're saying. we have an onboard compressor so space isn't a big issue but when i was at 150 the other day i could see a BIG grouper below me a good 50-60 feet but i didnt think my 80 had enough air to go down that deep

[jfjf]

yeah i get what you're saying. we have an onboard compressor so space isn't a big issue but when i was at 150 the other day i could see a BIG grouper below me a good 50-60 feet but i didnt think my 80 had enough air to go down that deep

Didn't you say you just started spearing only about a year ago? I assure you, an 80 cu-ft tank has plenty of air to get you to 200 ft and far below that. :cowboy::cowboy:

The only problem you might encounter is getting to the surface without fizzing like a Doctor Pepper on an airplane. You need to do some math and figure out your own air consumption, ascent rates and reasonable bottom times etc. If you don't yet know how to do the math, take some courses or get someone to teach you. You shouldn't just assume because some other guy gets away with it, you will too.

Please be careful, what some of these guys do (on air, solo, with little or no redundancy) is NOT considered acceptable by 99% of the diving community.

[Calif_Diver]

When I posted that last year, he had a short video on his sig of himself coming out of a turn with the back wheel kicking out sideways a bit. Pretty rad.

Understandable now. That bike would kill me ,ill ride my slwo ass harley thanks.

[islanduni]

I have a friend who dove surface supplied air deep. He told his tender to change his gas to 100% pure 02 and pull him up real slow at a set time. Some divers are willing to try anything. Not me!

[Thiofjappekat]

Everyday I read Spearboard, the more I believe Darwin was right.

[Mobius1]

ah im not going to get into my feelings on tech diving too much but im a commercial diver when going that deep on air youre moreless useless due to nitrogen narcosis and your nodecompression window is very slim i dont think its more than a couple minutes.
usually you have a dive hat on , 2 sources of surface air and a 60cf bailout and a decompression chamber with the inner lock blown down so you get out and in the chamber at depth within the 5 minute window on surface before being at depth decompressing on pure O2. i feel its the wrong mode of diving for the task. but you do what you want, be safe

[jymz]

I watched a guy do 320 on air with a massive 12L tank. No pressure gauge and no deco stop on the way up. Welcome to Sicily!

Daily nitrogen sensitivity varies, there is no "working up to it" in my mind. Ive seen someone fall asleep at 80 feet. One dam I used to fix was 220 bottom. We ran it on air with a massive stop where we would chain off and fall asleep for a few hours or read a book. I am glad I had the helmet on a few times. Stuff glows and sounds insane after a few mins there. Made the jobs 4x longer but much funnier.

Get a KISS rebreather or similar, many more ways to die but also much safer at those depths. Costs is less on gas usage.

PS there is nothing down there, trust me

[divelife]

ah im not going to get into my feelings on tech diving too much but im a commercial diver when going that deep on air youre moreless useless due to nitrogen narcosis and your nodecompression window is very slim i dont think its more than a couple minutes.
usually you have a dive hat on , 2 sources of surface air and a 60cf bailout and a decompression chamber with the inner lock blown down so you get out and in the chamber at depth within the 5 minute window on surface before being at depth decompressing on pure O2. i feel its the wrong mode of diving for the task. but you do what you want, be safe
yeah im a hard hat diver to the no deco for 180 is like 5 mins and not the proper depth to be spearing fish unless u wana do some deco diving hen extends ur bt but not worth the effort..

[seadogger]

can you leave me your dive shit in your will ??

[hammerhead786]

PM sent... damn you are stubborn Lee!

[Bulit7]

PM sent... damn you are stubborn Lee!

Dude, mann! This thread is older than my..........Give me a fukin break! :D

PM sent back to ya! Happy New Year !!!!!!!!:D:beer::beer::beer:

[chasintail]

LOL 210 is my deepest on air on an AL 80.Like the rok said haul ass! Drop like a ROK shoot a fish and then head back up.

[Clay-Doh]

See back in the day, my first regualtor, was a "Used" Dacor Pacer. It was about 5 years old when I bought it and I used it for at least 10-15 years. Back then I thought I was indestructable and I would let myself run out of air past 200' and still be chasing fish. When my air got so tight, I'd fly to the surface, throw another bottle on and go back down to 60' to decompress.

When you hit the purge button with that reg, you only got a little puff out of it. So you couldn't breathe alot of air, the reg didn't supply it.

I don't dare try this anymore, for one, I'm not as young anymore and secondly, when I'm out of air with my new regulator, I'm really out. I only made one fast ascent with it from 165' and that sucked bad!

But, I'm paying for my evil ways everyday now. I got pain in places that I didn't even know existed. 3 totalled out vehicles didn't help either. About the only time I don't feel any pain, is when I'm underwater.

Not tryin to bust balls. I read Roc's and the Hell diers stories, and they are for sure bad ass.

But go read his thread 100 ways for a rig diver to die.

He feels his own phsical pain from the way he has dove. He has lost friends. This shit aint a joke. I aint no do good follow the book safety freak, but use your head. There are limits and parameters that are taught for a reason.

My bottle of tylenol says something to the effect of dont take more than 8 in a 12 hour period. Thats an over safe rule, just like a lot of the diving "rules" are. Iknow I can take 12 and be fine. But I sure aint gonna take 32 of em.

Use your head. Push the limits? Yeah, I do. But within reason.

No offence Roc usin you as an example. But I am sure if some of those you have lost had played it a lil more conservative, they would still be here shootin the big ones today.

[chasintail]

No offence Roc usin you as an example. But I am sure if some of those you have lost had played it a lil more conservative, they would still be here shootin the big ones today.

Most of the accidents Louis described are not depth related.

[Clay-Doh]

Not depth related, but pushin limits related. Wether time, accent rates, solo divin, no octo...ect.

I push em. multiple bounce dives during a tourney, deep dives, use of pure O2 without "proper" training... solo diving. But there is a limit of how far you should push a limit.

Not that I am one to say how far...just pointing out that people should use there heads.

I personally (and this is just my opinion) feel that someone who thinks a lot of dives from 120-140 as deep dives, and feel there ready for over 200 witout training......well enough said.

[gulfdiver]

I don't think there are many on this board that can even discuss Tec. diving,
Yes some may have big eneough balls (mostly stupid) but what they do is not Tec. diving , just seat of the paints diving.
I don't even know why I am posting this because the ones that are doing this will just keep on untill they kill there selfs or cause someone else to die.

[chasintail]

Gary,
How have you been. There are quite a few on this board that can discuss tech diving. I would think that Mike (Dago) would be among the best.I have been diving for 15 years.I have been bounce diving for 13.Yes I have been bent and did a Navy table 6 But that was on a dive with my ex wife in the Bahamas in 80 foot of water and I didn't make any mistakes.I downloaded my profile off my computer and sent it DAN.They agreed.
I have countless air dives to 180 or beyond and have never had a problem other than a nose bleed once.Look at Rok,Papa Smurf, and Stan,been doin it for years and are still alive.Yeah,people have died but considering the nature of the beast in our back yard the numbers are small.I'm not saying its for everyone cause it not.Just don't talk down to who can because those who can't,teach.

[condog]

After reading this thread it appears to me some of you are girls. I got some redneck training and only dive solo with no tables. No problems here. I say go as deep as possible and make sure you shoot to the surface. you know what they say, you cant kill a bad dog.

[gulfdiver]

:wtf::bang:

[Clay-Doh]

Haa haa...I think he was being sarcastic about just doing "trial and error" to see what works! :lol:

[BIG C]

Haa haa...I think he was being sarcastic about just doing "trial and error" to see what works! :lol:

problem is that trial and error might only work once:lol:

[BIG C]

Ok, here is my take (for what little it's worth)
Air is officialy toxic at 218 FSW. Can you hit 230 and not have a seizure, absolutely. Here is the problem. You see a fish when you are at 200, he drags you to 230 and because of narcosis and fighting the fish, it taks 5 minutes to start your ascent. If you are fighting for 5 minutes at 200+ ft, you should have let go 3 minutes ago. Narcosis will be building and your decision making ability will be terrible. You see the bad scenario developing right?

If you head to 200 on air, you dont want to be there 3 minutes later. Problem is some people dont know what to expect at 200 and when you decide to shoot something larger than you are comfortable, bad things happen.

Moral is, dont do something you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with just because some one else makes it look easy. Its not easy.

If you pull the trigger at 200', make sure its a kill shot. 200 is not where you want to be in a wrestling match. Air and time will go alot faster than you think. Also, if its your first time at 200', now is not the time to shoot the biggest fish you have ever seen just so you can see what happens. Guys have done that on my boat and have come back either white as a ghost, out of air, missing guns, etc. I am not preaching, but I have seen it more than I care to mention.

If you go to 200, be careful and dont make a bad decision. Shoot a big one at 120, then 150, then 180.

But if you are shooting a big fish at 120 having to rush to 30 to decompress and running low on air. Dont kid yourself, you should not shoot big fish below 120 period. Some guys can shoot big fish at 200, make a slow ascent to 150 and do level stops at 100, 60 then 30 foot and still have ALOT of air left and 10 minutes left on the computer. If you are running low on air from shooting at 120 you need to know that your limit is 120.

You must also be ready for the narcosis. You have to be able to handle it. If you think its overwhelming at 180, dont shoot a fish at 180 because of ANYTHING goes wrong, you will freak out and possibly die. Only do what you are trained for and feel comfortable doing. Dont go to 200 because someone else does. If 150 is where you can get back with alot of air and not too narced out then 150 is your max. If you try 180, that is when the shot will be bad and the extra time spent there might kill you.

[chasintail]

[QUOTE=BIG C;1118478]Ok, here is my take (for what little it's worth)
Air is officialy toxic at 218 FSW. Can you hit 230 and not have a seizure, absolutely. Here is the problem. You see a fish when you are at 200, he drags you to 230 and because of narcosis and fighting the fish, it taks 5 minutes to start your ascent. If you are fighting for 5 minutes at 200+ ft, you should have let go 3 minutes ago. Narcosis will be building and your decision making ability will be terrible. You see the bad scenario developing right?

If you head to 200 on air, you dont want to be there 3 minutes later. Problem is some people dont know what to expect at 200 and when you decide to shoot something larger than you are comfortable, bad things happen.

Moral is, dont do something you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with just because some one else makes it look easy. Its not easy.

If you pull the trigger at 200', make sure its a kill shot. 200 is not where you want to be in a wrestling match. Air and time will go alot faster than you think. Also, if its your first time at 200', now is not the time to shoot the biggest fish you have ever seen just so you can see what happens. Guys have done that on my boat and have come back either white as a ghost, out of air, missing guns, etc. I am not preaching, but I have seen it more than I care to mention.

If you go to 200, be careful and dont make a bad decision. Shoot a big one at 120, then 150, then 180.

But if you are shooting a big fish at 120 having to rush to 30 to decompress and running low on air. Dont kid yourself, you should not shoot big fish below 120 period. Some guys can shoot big fish at 200, make a slow ascent to 150 and do level stops at 100, 60 then 30 foot and still have ALOT of air left and 10 minutes left on the computer. If you are running low on air from shooting at 120 you need to know that your limit is 120.

You must also be ready for the narcosis. You have to be able to handle it. If you think its overwhelming at 180, dont shoot a fish at 180 because of ANYTHING goes wrong, you will freak out and possibly die. Only do what you are trained for and feel comfortable doing. Dont go to 200 because someone else does. If 150 is where you can get back with alot of air and not too narced out then 150 is your max. If you try 180, that is when the shot will be bad and the extra time spent there might kill you.[/QUO

This without a doubt the best no bullshit advice yet!:thumps:

[Clay-Doh]

problem is that trial and error might only work once:lol:

My point exactly. Bunch a dives from 120 to 140 is in no way any preparation for dives to 200+.

Not to mention I don't care what anybody says, you go to even just 200 on air, and ascend to 140 at 60 feet per minute, your going to be narced. Figuring about 30 seconds decent time, a minute and a half past 140 is going to narc anybody.

This aint a drinking contest. Personally, I dont want to find out the hard way how deep will get me jacked up when I got a fish on. Deepest I been is 172, the bottom of the Tenaco Rig. Shot an AJ brought him up. I have no desire to go any deeper on air.

I'm I badass even if I don't dive deep! Haa haa:cowboy:

However, I do want to go to the sand on the USS Oriskany, been below the flight deck plent of times, and even swam the flight deck from the tower to the bow...(Never again!) 300 yard round trip at 145 feet...and half of it againts a rippin current. But I will save that for trimix...if and when I decide to drop that much $$ on training.

[BIG C]

If you are at 210, you can come up to about 150 pretty quick, but after that you better slow it down big time and stop at 120 for at least a minute. After that do those level stops arout 90, then 60, then 30 each for a minute, followed by a safety stop at 15ft.

That being said, you need to know without a doubt you have the air for this profile and even that does not guarantee safety. Problem is if your experience doing this is minimal, the fish fight and following ascent must go well. You have to know what a 50 pound whatever fish will feel like. If it the biggest fish you ever shot, you just know you are gonna run low on air, rush the stops and probably get bent. So, dont pull the trigger deep unless you know without a shadow of a doubt what will happen next.

You gotta shoot the big ones at 120 before you shoot them at 180. I know that makes alot of sense, but alot of people wont take that advice.

[Bulit7]

Great advice Big C. Maybe there is hope for this old thread after all.

[BIG C]

Great advice Big C. Maybe there is hope for this old thread after all.

just heed everyone's advice. Know your limits, whats safe, and what your limitations are. Its ok to shoot at whatever depth is comfortable and allows you to safely ascend with a decent amount of air.(within reason) If that depth is 120, then so be it. Any deeper and your are asking for trouble, cuz you know thats when the sea monster will whip yer but and you wont be prepared for it at that depth.

Good luck and dont make a bad decision you might regret. I know of a few fish I shot deep that wound up being more than a handful.

[gulfdiver]

Ok, here is my take (for what little it's worth)
Air is officialy toxic at 218 FSW. Can you hit 230 and not have a seizure, absolutely. Here is the problem. You see a fish when you are at 200, he drags you to 230 and because of narcosis and fighting the fish, it taks 5 minutes to start your ascent. If you are fighting for 5 minutes at 200+ ft, you should have let go 3 minutes ago. Narcosis will be building and your decision making ability will be terrible. You see the bad scenario developing right?

If you head to 200 on air, you dont want to be there 3 minutes later. Problem is some people dont know what to expect at 200 and when you decide to shoot something larger than you are comfortable, bad things happen.

Moral is, dont do something you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with just because some one else makes it look easy. Its not easy.

If you pull the trigger at 200', make sure its a kill shot. 200 is not where you want to be in a wrestling match. Air and time will go alot faster than you think. Also, if its your first time at 200', now is not the time to shoot the biggest fish you have ever seen just so you can see what happens. Guys have done that on my boat and have come back either white as a ghost, out of air, missing guns, etc. I am not preaching, but I have seen it more than I care to mention.

If you go to 200, be careful and dont make a bad decision. Shoot a big one at 120, then 150, then 180.

But if you are shooting a big fish at 120 having to rush to 30 to decompress and running low on air. Dont kid yourself, you should not shoot big fish below 120 period. Some guys can shoot big fish at 200, make a slow ascent to 150 and do level stops at 100, 60 then 30 foot and still have ALOT of air left and 10 minutes left on the computer. If you are running low on air from shooting at 120 you need to know that your limit is 120.

You must also be ready for the narcosis. You have to be able to handle it. If you think its overwhelming at 180, dont shoot a fish at 180 because of ANYTHING goes wrong, you will freak out and possibly die. Only do what you are trained for and feel comfortable doing. Dont go to 200 because someone else does. If 150 is where you can get back with alot of air and not too narced out then 150 is your max. If you try 180, that is when the shot will be bad and the extra time spent there might kill you.

Well said. A Fact that can't be stressed enough is get the training, don't think you know it all and don't be too cheep to train for this type of diving.
1) Take a Deco/Advanced Nitrox course
2) You should have 3 times the air that you plan on using.
3) Have the right equipment.
4) You need to have experience in the deep dives on some nonspearing dives.
5) Make your plan and stick to it.

[Fishkiller12]

"A mans got to know his limitations". :cowboy:

[gulfdiver]

"A mans got to know his limitations". :cowboy:

You got that right.

[kylo1597]

btw. dont shoot a big amberjack that deep for your first fish. mistakeeeeeeee

[chasintail]

btw. dont shoot a big amberjack that deep for your first fish. mistakeeeeeeee

Give me a shout kyle.Gonna make a dive this month.

[kylo1597]

pm me your number, my phone learned to dive

[Clay-Doh]

"A mans got to know his limitations". :cowboy:

Cool Hand Luke...great movie. Got the remastered edition.

"Sometimes a handful of nothin is a real coool hand"

[mjacobs]

I gave up the teaching of diving for the practice of it some years ago. Deepest I ever went on air was 185' in strong currents, cold water and 6' seas before mix became popular.

Best advice I ever got startiong out was to avoid the divers with certification patches on their jackets, find the guy with the rattiest looking well-used dive gear and learn from him.

Can't argue with Safety Through Education no matter how you get it. Just make sure you get it. Tech requires more study.

There are old divers and there are bold divers but there aren't any old, bold, divers.

[100days-a-year]

Know and dive regularly with old bold divers.Buried well trained and novice friends alike with one common denominator...not following directions.

Greed is a killer too and it kills in many ways...too cheap to get training or gear,not passing on 1 more fish at depth,no 02 available.... there's more

[gulfdiver]

Know and dive regularly with old bold divers.Buried well trained and novice friends alike with one common denominator...not following directions.

Greed is a killer too and it kills in many ways...too cheap to get training or gear,not passing on 1 more fish at depth,no 02 available.... there's more

More Good Advice. Note: another mention about training.

[chasintail]

More Good Advice. Note: another mention about training.

Gary,
You still running charters?

[gulfdiver]

Gary,
You still running charters?

Sure am. You need one.?

[chasintail]

Sure am. You need one.?

Got a few wrecks I wanna hit when everything opens back up.

[gulfdiver]

Got a few wrecks I wanna hit when everything opens back up.

What area?

[Poonchaser342]

For those who haven’t already thought of this, I have a suggestion I’d like to share in an effort to reduce the dangers encountered during tech dives. If I am planning for a dive between the 150ft and 240ft range with a BT of about 10 minutes, I take 130cf steel on my back and an 80 aluminum strapped under my chest to my BC. This rigging has few advantages. Without spending a fortune on a backplate BC and double tanks, I have 210cf which gives me plenty of gas to complete a 10 minute dive at these depths and have at least 1/3 left over for reserve. Plus it gives me two completely independent systems incase of a failure in one of the two systems. Basically, the 80cf serves as a second tank, or incase of an emergency, it serves as a bailout. I also switch over to the 80 with about 70cf left in the 130. This allows the 130 to serve as the bailout if the 80 fails. Yes it is a bit cumbersome when it comes to stringering fish, reloading the speargun, etc…However I still shoot fish just as well and the inconvenience this system causes definitely does not outweigh the peace of mind I gain by always have plenty of gas and two independent systems with me at all times. Actually, now I am more nervous on shallower dives because I have really gotten used to the idea of having a second tank with me that doubles as a back up.
As far as my mix, I have in the past completed plenty of dives to 160 on air, but now I really never dive past 130 without some kind of Helium mix. I was always still able to make cautious decisions on air in this depth range (basically refraining from any task that might push me into a low air situation), and I thought I was relatively safe until one dive in particular. I made a bad shot on an AR and the shaft blew right through it gills…before I went and retrieved my shaft, I reloaded with an extra shaft and shot another, much larger AR. I then let my sister borrow my gun and followed her around while she shot her first AR. When we surfaced and began discussing the dive we realized I was missing a shaft. Of course naturally I blamed my sister…lol. Well after a lengthy discussion she helped jog my memory and I realized it was actually me who totally forgot the shaft and just left it laying in the sand. During that ride home I thought to myself, “I might be able maintain a safe thought process while diving on air in the 140 to 160 range, but if I am narced enough to leave a 60 dollar shaft lying in the sand, how safe would my thought process be during an emergency situation.”
I know I could bounce to 200 on air over and over again and probably never have a problem, but if I do end up having a problem, I want to be huffing some Helium while dealing with my situation at 200ft. I know to some this might sound like being a little bit of a safety freak, but that’s what it takes to make ME comfortable on a tech dive. Besides, I already get enough of a testosterone boost fishing offshore tournaments and catching Warsaw, Kitty’s, and Snowy’s out of my 23’9 Sheaffer.
Yes, I do have a life raft, an Iridium Sat Phone, and an Epirb.

[waterpirate]

I will not dive in the ocean without HE anymore. After switching to doubles and moving to 160fsw to shoot the question for me became how impaired am I willing to be at depth stringing a fish. I chose to go deep to get bigger fish, bigger fish equals more task loading, I prefer not to be impaired.
He is a tool that should be used by all divers at depths as shallow as 80fsw. I do not need to be manly and go deep on air, as it is not neccassary anymore. Despite the haircuts it is not the eighties anymore, and HE is widely available. Each persons body is different. I feel the best with a 20% blend to 130fsw and 30% to 160fsw. If you think this is overly safe, take some 20% HE to 130fsw and let me know how you feel compaired to 32% nitrox. Like a lot of things HE is addictive, once you try it you will never go back.
Eric

[ribonzz]

If i'm soloing, I'll just go for about 100'', but with friends, 200" is on the way! :)

[keezdiver]

I will not dive in the ocean without HE anymore. After switching to doubles and moving to 160fsw to shoot the question for me became how impaired am I willing to be at depth stringing a fish. I chose to go deep to get bigger fish, bigger fish equals more task loading, I prefer not to be impaired.
He is a tool that should be used by all divers at depths as shallow as 80fsw. I do not need to be manly and go deep on air, as it is not neccassary anymore. Despite the haircuts it is not the eighties anymore, and HE is widely available. Each persons body is different. I feel the best with a 20% blend to 130fsw and 30% to 160fsw. If you think this is overly safe, take some 20% HE to 130fsw and let me know how you feel compaired to 32% nitrox. Like a lot of things HE is addictive, once you try it you will never go back.
Eric

i'm not rich enough to pay for all that. nitrox is pricey enough down here!!

i'm perfectly happy on air to 130', and assuming decent conditions to about 150'.

so i'll stick to the $3.50 fills for the 200+ dives i do a year

[Bug-nuts]

i'll stick to the $3.50 fills for the 200+ dives i do a year

Tell me where you get Nitrox fills for $3.50 and I'm in line. They're $9.00 in our neck of the woods, :eek: hence why I dive air as much as I do.

Bug-nuts:beer:

[kitespearo]

Tell me where you get Nitrox fills for $3.50 and I'm in line. They're $9.00 in our neck of the woods, :eek: hence why I dive air as much as I do.

Bug-nuts:beer:

Bug Nuts he is stating that he will not pay extra for getting Nitrox. He is content on paying 3.50 for AIR not Nitrox.

I do not not think you will find Nitrox that cheap anywhere.

[Thunderball]

On a lighter note: I have often wondered, does the carbo I shoot in 165fsw taste the same as the one I shoot in 80fsw? Yep. Can't tell the difference.

I'm all about the training. I would respectfully suggest that those who are self-trained, take the three-course sequence offered by TDI or PADI. And do my taste test. If you notice a difference, let me know. :o)