Obama's infomercial

[Bill McIntyre]

As Rachael Maddow said, "he had me from the waving wheat."

But aside from my emotional response, I thought it was very effective. But then I admit that its hard to disregard my emotional response.

Of course some of the stuff said about him being so effective from day one in the Senate is obviously open to question, but I thought those personal pieces on real Americans who are victims of current policies even though they played by the rules were shit hot.

I couldn't help comparing them to Joe the Plumber. If the Republicans go out looking for ways to tear them new assholes and show that their stories were fabrications like Joe's, I wonder how much success they will have. I'm sure they will try though, so I guess we'll see.

[SpearMax]

As Rachael Maddow said, "he had me from the waving wheat."

But aside from my emotional response, I thought it was very effective. But then I admit that its hard to disregard my emotional response.

Of course some of the stuff said about him being so effective from day one in the Senate is obviously open to question, but I thought those personal pieces on real Americans who are victims of current policies even though they played by the rules were shit hot.

I couldn't help comparing them to Joe the Plumber. If the Republicans go out looking for ways to tear them new assholes and show that their stories were fabrications like Joe's, I wonder how much success they will have. I'm sure they will try though, so I guess we'll see.

Bill, can one not find stories like those anytime under any administration?

The "Hollywood slickness" of the piece was impressive, but I think it will do little to change positions of each side.

I think those inclined to vote McCain will do so. However, some of those leaning toward to Obama may get second thoughts in the next week as more is revealed.

Sure is an interesting race, Tony

[Q]

I liked it the first family was like ours ( just making it , paycheck to paycheck )

I have to admit that I did not know his mom was a white woman and was not alive. I think a joke or 2 I herd just became unfuny.

I also like that Obama was trying to be upfront about the war in Afghanistan. I would be thinking twice if I were a Taliban guy...

Q.

[Q]

Bill, can one not find stories like those anytime under any administration?

The "Hollywood slickness" of the piece was impressive, but I think it will do little to change positions of each side.

I think those inclined to vote McCain will do so. However, some of those leaning toward to Obama may get second thoughts in the next week as more is revealed.

Sure is an interesting race, Tony


Tony - I herd your are from the UK, are you a US voter? or just a spectator?

Is it much diffrent in the UK?

Q.

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill, can one not find stories like those anytime under any administration?



Sure one could, but Obama sought out those stories and said he wanted to do something about them. McCain sought out Joe the Plumber and said he wanted to keep guys like him from suffering, even though guys like him would benefit.

They made choices about which stories they wanted to highlight, and those choices revealed their priorities.

[Bill McIntyre]

I have to admit that I did not know his mom was a white woman and was not alive.

No shit? And then I guess you don't know that he was raised by white grandparents from Kansas?

I know you support him in spite of not knowing his personal story, but I guess this gives me hope that there may be some people out there who didn't support him, but now may when they realize he wasn't the son of black muslim parents who had him raised in a Madrassa before coming back to get training in bomb construction from Bill Ayres at age 8.

I guess I'm just scared that we are not all making decisions based on the same information.

[Bill McIntyre]

I think those inclined to vote McCain will do so. However, some of those leaning toward to Obama may get second thoughts in the next week as more is revealed.


I missed that sentence in my earlier reply. Just what is it that will be revealed? Do you have inside info on the October Surprise?

[Q]

No shit? And then I guess you don't know that he was raised by white grandparents from Kansas?

I know you support him in spite of not knowing his personal story, but I guess this gives me hope that there may be some people out there who didn't support him, but now may when they realize he wasn't the son of black muslim parents who had him raised in a Madrassa before coming back to get training in bomb construction from Bill Ayres at age 8.

I guess I'm just scared that we are not all making decisions based on the same information.

I didn't ever look into his background myself. I guess I figured he was a US senator and a Harvord professor so he must have been able to pass a background check.

And all the Obama haters spuw that Africa Islam shit. I started not to listen to this BS. Does that make me a bad voter that I didn't know what color his mom was?

Q.

[SpearMax]

I have to admit that I did not know his mom was a white woman and was not alive. I think a joke or 2 I herd just became unfuny.

Q - this is hard to believe that you do not know that basic aspect of your candidate. What bothers many people in both parties is the stuff about Obama that very few know and how the mainstream media is giving him a major pass in vetting the real Obama. I was with some Jewish democrats today who want Mc Cain. Similiarly, I was with some Republicans yesterday who want Obama. Voting a party line without knowing the basics of a candidate is not wise.

Tony - I herd your are from the UK, are you a US voter? or just a spectator? Is it much diffrent in the UK? Q.

Q, you must be confusing me with the owner of Deeper Blue who is from the UK. I was born in the UK, but my parents moved here to Florida at age nine months. I became a US citizen and will be voting tomorrow early in this election.

[Gradyman]

I missed that sentence in my earlier reply. Just what is it that will be revealed? Do you have inside info on the October Surprise?


More like what's NOT going to be revealed...until MAYBE after the election.

So it was emotional huh? Guess that will distract the "on the fence voters" even more so...get them FEELING, instead of THINKING! Slick, very slick.

[Q]

Q - this is hard to believe that you do not know that basic aspect of your candidate. What bothers many people in both parties is the stuff about Obama that very few know and how the mainstream media is giving him a major pass in vetting the real Obama. I was with some Jewish democrats today who want Mc Cain. Similiarly, I was with some Republicans yesterday who want Obama.



Q, you must be confusing me with the owner of Deeper Blue who is from the UK. I was born in the UK, but my parents moved here to Florida at age nine months. I became a US citizen and will be voting tomorrow early in this election.

I guess it donsn't ( and shouldn't ) matter who his mom is. It just is not important to me.

Before started to like Obama I was a ron paul guy, then a Clinton guy. I have no idea what ether of there mom's color is.

Q.

[SpearMax]

I missed that sentence in my earlier reply. Just what is it that will be revealed? Do you have inside info on the October Surprise?

I wish I did - about both campaigns since they both seem to have gravitated toward "Swift Boat" tactics in these closing days. I'll bet there are still cards up sleeves on both sides. That is the way American politics has evolved in recent decades. Sad state of affairs if you ask me. Issue-driven campaigning is secondary to one-up-man-ship campaigning.

[Bill McIntyre]

More like what's NOT going to be revealed...until MAYBE after the election.


Sure, the McCain camp will be so idealistic that they will hold back dirt until after the election.

So it was emotional huh? Guess that will distract the "on the fence voters" even more so...get them FEELING, instead of THINKING! Slick, very slick.

Oh shit! McCain and Palin just never thought of appealing to emotion. Those Palin winks and her well fitted short skirts are designed to make me think.

Edit- it just occurred to me how incongruous it is for a person who puts so much stock in faith to be advocating thinking rather than emotion.

Faith can't be based on thought, so it has to be a form of emotion. Believe if you wish, but don't preach about fact-based thought.

[SpearMax]

Faith can't be based on thought, so it has to be a form of emotion.

Bill, I would love to see you argue that specious point with Albert Einstein if he was around. Tony

Albert went though many phases of faith (belief and disbelief) in his life, but one of his most famous quotes is the following:

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill, I would love to see you argue that specious point with Albert Einstein if he was around. Tony

Albert went though many phases of faith (belief and disbelief) in his life, but one of his most famous quotes is the following:

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Nice quote, but its dishonest in context. Albert didn't rely on faith to come up with the Theory of Relativity or to understand physics in general. He relied on observable facts, subject to the scientific method. If he believed that a God created all the system, he still didn't rely on prayer to explain physics.

I'm also pretty sure that he believed in evolution and didn't think the earth was created intact with all present species a few thousand years ago.

I have said it many times here, but I have no problem with an uncaused cause who set all this universe in motion. Its just that what she set in motion can be observed and measured.

[kvzeyde]

As Rachael Maddow said, "he had me from the waving wheat."

But aside from my emotional response, I thought it was very effective. But then I admit that its hard to disregard my emotional response.

Of course some of the stuff said about him being so effective from day one in the Senate is obviously open to question, but I thought those personal pieces on real Americans who are victims of current policies even though they played by the rules were shit hot.

I couldn't help comparing them to Joe the Plumber. If the Republicans go out looking for ways to tear them new assholes and show that their stories were fabrications like Joe's, I wonder how much success they will have. I'm sure they will try though, so I guess we'll see.

You are a "true believer" but others are not:



Obama's prime-time ad skips over budget realities

Oct 29 09:47 PM US/Eastern
By CALVIN WOODWARD
Associated Press Writer 66 Comments


WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama was less than upfront in his half-hour commercial Wednesday night about the costs of his programs and the crushing budget pressures he would face in office.
Obama's assertion that "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond" the expense of his promises is accepted only by his partisans. His vow to save money by "eliminating programs that don't work" masks his failure throughout the campaign to specify what those programs are—beyond the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

A sampling of what voters heard in the ad, and what he didn't tell them:

THE SPIN: "That's why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year."

THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.

___

THE SPIN: "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost."

THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama's policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years—and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: "Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years." The analysis goes on to say: "Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified."

___

THE SPIN: "Here's what I'll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we'll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open. "

THE FACTS: His proposals—the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more—cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged—although not in his commercial—that: "The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals."

___

THE SPIN: "I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care."

THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: "I want to start doing something about it." He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.

___

THE SPIN: "We are currently spending $10 billion a month in Iraq, when they have a $79 billion surplus. It seems to me that if we're going to be strong at home as well as strong abroad that we've got to look at bringing that war to a close." These lines in the ad were taken from a debate with McCain.

THE FACTS: Obama was once and very often definitive about getting combat troops out in 16 months (At times during the primaries, he promised to do so within a year). More recently, without backing away explicitly from the 16-month withdrawal pledge, he has talked of the need for flexibility. In the primaries, it would have been a jarring departure for him to have said merely that "we've got to look at" ending the war. As for Iraq's surplus, it's true that Iraq could end up with a surplus that large, but that hasn't happened yet.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[IRONHEAD]

After watching the 30 minute spot, I had to remind myself this was a commercial to buy votes. granted there was alot of great things said I also have to remind myself that every presidential candidate will tell you it is sunny outside even if it is raining to make you feel warm and cheery.
I just find it hard to believe we will ever fix healthcare.
one thing is for sure for me, I am poorer now than I was 4 yrs ago.

[bgbill]

After watching the 30 minute spot, I had to remind myself this was a commercial to buy votes. granted there was alot of great things said I also have to remind myself that every presidential candidate will tell you it is sunny outside even if it is raining to make you feel warm and cheery.
I just find it hard to believe we will ever fix healthcare.
one thing is for sure for me, I am poorer now than I was 4 yrs ago.

All politicians are selling a product, themselves, they make promises yet they are not the ones who pay the price, it is the people who pay taxes that pay the price, many voters do not pay taxes, yet they will many times vote for the candidate that promises them what they want, yet the politician rarely delivers on their campaign promises.


As far you you being poorer today than you were 4 years ago, whoes fault is that?

[SpearMax]

Nice quote, but its dishonest in context. Albert didn't rely on faith to come up with the Theory of Relativity or to understand physics in general. He relied on observable facts, subject to the scientific method. If he believed that a God created all the system, he still didn't rely on prayer to explain physics.

I'm also pretty sure that he believed in evolution and didn't think the earth was created intact with all present species a few thousand years ago.

I have said it many times here, but I have no problem with an uncaused cause who set all this universe in motion. Its just that what she set in motion can be observed and measured.


Bill, let's go back to your original statement right here:

Faith can't be based on thought, so it has to be a form of emotion.

Are you saying Faith can't be based on thought, so it has to be a form of emotion? :confused:

[FOWLER267]

Sure one could, but Obama sought out those stories and said he wanted to do something about them. McCain sought out Joe the Plumber and said he wanted to keep guys like him from suffering, even though guys like him would benefit.

They made choices about which stories they wanted to highlight, and those choices revealed their priorities.

JM didnt' seek Joe; "O" walked down his' street and choked on a simple question.

[FOWLER267]

I liked it the first family was like ours ( just making it , paycheck to paycheck )

I have to admit that I did not know his mom was a white woman and was not alive. I think a joke or 2 I herd just became unfuny.

I also like that Obama was trying to be upfront about the war in Afghanistan. I would be thinking twice if I were a Taliban guy...

Q.

Q you could make Leno's Jaywalking segments!

I'm often amazzed at how little average voters know about the candidates?

[FOWLER267]

I didn't ever look into his background myself. I guess I figured he was a US senator and a Harvord professor so he must have been able to pass a background check.

And all the Obama haters spuw that Africa Islam shit. I started not to listen to this BS. Does that make me a bad voter that I didn't know what color his mom was?

Q.

Never a Harvard prof either. Maybe you should spend some time researching the candidates? Maybe look at a VARIETY of sources so you get past a few of the biases.

[Nate Baker]

So it was emotional huh? Guess that will distract the "on the fence voters" even more so...get them FEELING, instead of THINKING!

The first rule of selling. Make 'em want it THEN give 'em enough info so they can justify having bought it. Politics often flips it on it's head, so that voters have an emotional reaction to the other candidate. That's why fear is so effective. It's hard to make a compelling case for any candidate. But it's easy to make the other guy scary.

Both sides do it. Here's a funny take on it.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=189163&title=Obama-and-Palin-Rallies-of-Fear

[Daniels]

I didn't ever look into his background myself. I guess I figured he was a US senator and a Harvord professor so he must have been able to pass a background check.

And all the Obama haters spuw that Africa Islam shit. I started not to listen to this BS. Does that make me a bad voter that I didn't know what color his mom was?

Q.

wow,this is the problem about most obama voters,if you researched a little deeper you would probably not feel the same about him.also he was not a harvard professor,thats worse than voting on someone for race reasons.also wasnt it you who made the statement on where certain people get there white sheets at because of certain views they had on obama,atleast do a little research on who could potentially be running this country,besides i guess i figured he was a senator or you thought a professor and they probably did a background check.

[IrieSpearo]

wow,this is the problem about most obama voters,if you researched a little deeper you would probably not feel the same about him.also he was not a harvard professor,thats worse than voting on someone for race reasons.also wasnt it you who made the statement on where certain people get there white sheets at because of certain views they had on obama,atleast do a little research on who could potentially be running this country,besides i guess i figured he was a senator or you thought a professor and they probably did a background check.

You dont vote for the man, but for his policies...sure Edwards was better looking, Biden had more experience, Hilary was cooler, but Obama had the best policies that appealed to the largest segment. so who gives a shit if he comes from a single parent family, The policies he seeks to implement in the next four years is whats important...

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill, let's go back to your original statement right here:

Are you saying Faith can't be based on thought, so it has to be a form of emotion? :confused:

Yes, that's what I said, but I'm having trouble finding the right words.

I guess "thought" is a process of the brain, and it can certainly be based on faith. Someone decides that a guy named Noah could have gathered a pair of every species on earth and put them on a boat, fed them, had excellent vet care so that not one died. He decides that based on his faith that what is written in an old book is true in every word, so that's what he "thinks."

I should have said that faith is not based on reason. Even those with faith say that you have "the gift of faith." If its not based on observable fact and reason, then it must be based on a form of emotion.

[Gradyman]

Bill, maybe your faith or lack thereof is based on emotion...my relationship with the Lord would not allow feelings to play a part in building what has become my faith. Feelings are too volitile to base a prudent decision on.

Hey, except for my home (I got 25 years left) I think we're in the same boat!!! I tow mine to the dock in a paid off 1998 dodge 250 van!

[SpearMax]

Yes, that's what I said, but I'm having trouble finding the right words.

I guess "thought" is a process of the brain, and it can certainly be based on faith. Someone decides that a guy named Noah could have gathered a pair of every species on earth and put them on a boat, fed them, had excellent vet care so that not one died. He decides that based on his faith that what is written in an old book is true in every word, so that's what he "thinks."

I should have said that faith is not based on reason. Even those with faith say that you have "the gift of faith." If its not based on observable fact and reason, then it must be based on a form of emotion.

"The Screwtape Letters"

Bill, I have an excellent reading recommendation for you on this subject which appears to be dear to your heart and mind. Years ago, I read "The Screwtape Letters" and found them quite fascinating.

Here is a link describing them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Screwtape_Letters

Here is a small example of what is in them:

Screwtape (along with his trusted scribe Toadpipe) holds an administrative post in the bureaucracy ("Lowerarchy") of Hell, and acts more as a mentor than a supervisor to Wormwood, the inexperienced tempter; almost every letter ends with the signature, "Your affectionate uncle, Screwtape." In the body of the thirty-one letters which make up the book, Screwtape gives Wormwood detailed advice on various methods of undermining faith and promoting sin in his Patient, interspersed with observations on human nature and Christian doctrine.

Enjoy reading them if you have the time. ;)

All the best, Tony

[Daniels]

You dont vote for the man, but for his policies...sure Edwards was better looking, Biden had more experience, Hilary was cooler, but Obama had the best policies that appealed to the largest segment. so who gives a shit if he comes from a single parent family, The policies he seeks to implement in the next four years is whats important...

glad you feel that way.I personaly vote on policies and character of a man and experience,obama has none of these in my opinion.obama is nothing more than a charismatic speaker,That is it.

[CraigC]

glad you feel that way.I personaly vote on policies and character of a man and experience,obama has none of these in my opinion.obama is nothing more than a charismatic speaker,That is it.

So you are choosing two of your priorities in voting for McCain, policies and experience, because when it comes to character, he is sorely lacking.

Craig

[IrieSpearo]

glad you feel that way.I personaly vote on policies and character of a man and experience,obama has none of these in my opinion.obama is nothing more than a charismatic speaker,That is it.

Character of the man?...did you vote for Bush based on his Character, then it should be easy for you to vote for Obama, that is, unless you still think Bush has character...

[Prater]

Craig,

I am curious as to why he is lacking character in your mind. I believe you have to know a person directly to truly know their character, not what the media spits out about them. I think one of the spearboard members had a charter with McCain on a fishing trip. That person probably knows him better in one day than any of us know him from months of television.

[Daniels]

[QUOTE=CraigC;813804]So you are choosing two of your priorities in voting for McCain, policies and experience, because when it comes to character, he is sorely lacking.

Cr
aig[/QUOte


all three,i personaly think he has plenty of character.i guess you have bought into all this obama hype,obama wouldnt know what character was if it hit him in the face,all tho he would probably tell you he did and make it sound pretty convinceing:cowboy:

[Bill McIntyre]

On McCain's character.

In South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters circulated church fliers that labeled McCain “the fag candidate.”

Among the rumors circulated against McCain in 2000 in South Carolina was that his adopted Bangladeshi daughter was actually his black illegimate child, that McCain was both gay and cheated on his wife, and that his wife Cindy was a drug addict.

Bush operatives said that his 5 1/2 years as a POW in North Vietnam left him with a loose screw, and he shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons.

In 2000, McCain operatives in SC accused Rove of spreading rumors against McCain, such as “suggestions that McCain had committed treason while a prisoner of war, and had fathered a child by a black prostitute,” according to the New Yorker.

Other Bush operatives suggested that McCain had been programmed and was a "Manchurian Candidate."

In spite of all that, McCain turned around and cozied up to Bush in order to maintain his viability with the GOP base. Does it show character to let Bush attack your wife and child and then decide he is your buddy after all?

During that 2000 campaign, McCain called Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson "agents of intolerance." I happen to agree. But then when he decided he needed to cozy up to the religious reich, he appeared on stage with them, praised them, and spoke at their university graduations.

Does it show character to reverse yourself for political expediency?

[IrieSpearo]

Craig,

I am curious as to why he is lacking character in your mind. I believe you have to know a person directly to truly know their character, not what the media spits out about them. I think one of the spearboard members had a charter with McCain on a fishing trip. That person probably knows him better in one day than any of us know him from months of television.

Good Prater, Im proud of you...nicely said!

[Gary Schulte]

I getting real sick of this shit. I just want it over with. If Obama is my next President then I will support him until I disagree with his actions just as all Americans should do. Being the first black President will be a huge responsibility. He better not ***** up.

[Prater]

Bill,

I have had mud slung at me, called names here on the board, and dished a few out myself. But if given the chance to meet anyone here on the board I would drop all the bad said against me and meet up for a beer or better yet to go out on the boat and do some spearing, even if we had disagreements. So you are saying my character is flawed because I can forgive anyone here for what is said?

[zenspearo]

I have had mud slung at me, called names here on the board, and dished a few out myself. But if given the chance to meet anyone here on the board I would drop all the bad said against me and meet up for a beer or better yet to go out on the boat and do some spearing, even if we had disagreements.

:thumps::thumps::beer:

[aaron proffitt]

On McCain's character.

In South Carolina in 2000, Bush supporters circulated church fliers that labeled McCain “the fag candidate.”

Among the rumors circulated against McCain in 2000 in South Carolina was that his adopted Bangladeshi daughter was actually his black illegimate child, that McCain was both gay and cheated on his wife, and that his wife Cindy was a drug addict.

Bush operatives said that his 5 1/2 years as a POW in North Vietnam left him with a loose screw, and he shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons.

In 2000, McCain operatives in SC accused Rove of spreading rumors against McCain, such as “suggestions that McCain had committed treason while a prisoner of war, and had fathered a child by a black prostitute,” according to the New Yorker.

Other Bush operatives suggested that McCain had been programmed and was a "Manchurian Candidate."

In spite of all that, McCain turned around and cozied up to Bush in order to maintain his viability with the GOP base. Does it show character to let Bush attack your wife and child and then decide he is your buddy after all?

During that 2000 campaign, McCain called Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson "agents of intolerance." I happen to agree. But then when he decided he needed to cozy up to the religious reich, he appeared on stage with them, praised them, and spoke at their university graduations.

Does it show character to reverse yourself for political expediency?

During the primaries , Joe Biden said Obama lacked the experience to be President . You were saying ?

[Prater]

Joe,

I would damn neer give a kidney to get a chance to go out with Bill Mac for a day of spearing. I still have a long way to go before I am a proficient freediver though.

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill,

I have had mud slung at me, called names here on the board, and dished a few out myself. But if given the chance to meet anyone here on the board I would drop all the bad said against me and meet up for a beer or better yet to go out on the boat and do some spearing, even if we had disagreements. So you are saying my character is flawed because I can forgive anyone here for what is said?

Maybe its my character that is flawed, but there are a few guys on the board that have taken it to the personal level, and I would not be willing to have a beer with them or dive with them. One that called my wife an ugly bitch because I disagreed with him on some issue comes to mind as a guy I don't want to dive with. Its fine is you disagree with me, but when you start calling me names and attacking my wife, then no, I'm not forgiving you. There is a point at which a man has to stand up for his own character and that of his family.

But getting back to politics, if someone spread rumors and made push-poll phone calls that said my adopted child was my illegitimate child through an extramarital affair with a black woman (in a state where there is a lot of prejudice against blacks) and called me a fag, then I would me more inclined to break a beer bottle over his head than have a beer with him.

If I had said that Falwell and Robertson were agents of intolerance, then I wouldn't go seek an endorsement from Reverend Hagee, who says the Catholic Church is "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system" and "the apostate church."

I liked the "straight-talk McCain of 2000, but when he was so willing to bend over for the people who trashed him so unmercifully, then I lost respect for his character.

[Bill McIntyre]

During the primaries , Joe Biden said Obama lacked the experience to be President . You were saying ?

He was debating him and running against him, so I expect stuff like that. But he didn't call him a fag, say he was a Muslim Manchurian Candidate, say his kids were conceived out of wedlock with another woman, or attack his wife.

I think there is a significant difference there.

[Prater]

Bill,

I can understand if that was the case. But is McCain a real Buddy Buddy with Bush, or is it that he bites his lip and does whats best in his mind for his constituants?

[Bill McIntyre]

Bill,

I can understand if that was the case. But is McCain a real Buddy Buddy with Bush, or is it that he bites his lip and does whats best in his mind for his constituants?

I think its more a matter of doing what is best for McCain. He doesn't have an exclusive on that behavior, but that's why I don't think I would be a successful politician. I'm only willing to go so far in betraying my own principles.

[CraigC]

Craig,

I am curious as to why he is lacking character in your mind. I believe you have to know a person directly to truly know their character, not what the media spits out about them. I think one of the spearboard members had a charter with McCain on a fishing trip. That person probably knows him better in one day than any of us know him from months of television.

If you choose to ignore his personal record, I guess you can say he is an upstanding citizen. I don't claim to be up there in my past dealings, but I'm not trying to snocker the general public in an effort to be president. great that charter person had a few hours with McCain, in a "happy" mode. But just follow his progression from his first wife. He certainly has questionable principles ( for those of you that have religeious sympathies) and he doesn't respect others. He, IMO, is a piece of low-life scum.

Craig

[IrieSpearo]

One that called my wife an ugly bitch because I disagreed with him on some issue comes to mind as a guy I don't want to dive with. Its fine is you disagree with me, but when you start calling me names and attacking my wife, then no, I'm not forgiving you. There is a point at which a man has to stand up for his own character and that of his family.



Thats ****ed Up...anybody attacking anybody's family should be immediately banned...it goes against this whole ****ing thing of ours...

[Bill McIntyre]

I didn't even bring up that stuff about how he dated Cindy while he was still married to his crippled first wife, then divorced her, but it does puzzle me how so many conservatives don't seem to consider that to be a reflection on his character. Hell, the Reagans despised him for that.

Gradyman, what about it? How come that doesn't bother you?

[Prater]

Obama Suporters: I am curious about your thoughts on Obama. What do you like about his Character and what do you dislike about his character?

I am not a supporter but I admire his speaking abilities, he is always calm when he speaks even when he is upset about the subject.

[IRONHEAD]

As far you you being poorer today than you were 4 years ago, whoes fault is that?

Well that is a tough question, I do not live beyond my means. I owe nothing on credit cards, 2 of my 3 means of transportation are paid for and I am working to pay off the last one. but the cost of everything has gone up. I got laid off back in february and due to the economy and budget constraints in goverments budgets my line of work went to a standstill. I work in relation to growth in the civil engineering field. or did. now I am working building outdoor kitchens as semi full time and recently got back into engineering part time at my old company to keep my foot in the door and keep my skills up to date. I pretty much work 5 days a week and earn close to my main salary but gone are the days where I could consider buying big ticket items like I did 3 or 4 yrs ago. I guess right now I am uncertain about how stable tomorrow might be although I do have faith that it has to come back just not sure how soon. I am not one of these people that blames everything on GWB as I do not think any one person is responsible for this situation. I am more leaning to thinking this is a global issue and has more to do with the population exploding worldwide and our problems are more like growing pains this planet has to endure from time to time.