02 cleaning

[dabulltrouble]

only been diving nytrox for about a year.the dive shop i do business with says the tanks have to be cleaned for o2 every 12 months regardless.along with a visual every 12 months also.i just had a discussion with someone who said the tanks only have to be o2 cleaned once and as long as you dont ever fill them with air you only have to have a visual done every year and not the 02 cleaning.can someone clear this up for me.thanks

[richhermes]

I was told once a year for the O2 clean too. Regardless of whether it had air in it or not.

[Stone]

Originally posted by dabulltrouble
only been diving nytrox for about a year.the dive shop i do business with says the tanks have to be cleaned for o2 every 12 months regardless.along with a visual every 12 months also.i just had a discussion with someone who said the tanks only have to be o2 cleaned once and as long as you dont ever fill them with air you only have to have a visual done every year and not the 02 cleaning.can someone clear this up for me.thanks

I would guess your dive shop does partial pressure fills. Dive shops that use membrane systems usually don't have the same worries. Also, shops that use hyperfiltered air know that they are not introducing hydrocarbons.

If their policy is to O2 clean tanks every 12 months, then they have a concern with hydrocarbons building up in the tank and valve over time.

Unless the charge to O2 clean your valve/tank when it is VIP'ed is too high, I'd go along with your dive shop's policy.

[swimndive]

If you will need to get your tanks filled at this particular shop, then yes, you may need to have your tank and valve O2 cleaned by them every year. Once O2 cleaned, both will stay O2 cleaned until you contaminate them. Technically speaking, contamination will occur the first time you top the tank with anything less than grade "J" breathing air (most compressors can only deliver grade "E"). In reality grade E air is just fine, and so PP blending nitrox into a non-O2 cleaned tank (your local shop could do it all day long if he wanted to).

I have a number of tanks that are specifically dedicated for use on deep or cave dives. All are filled with O2 concentrations ranging from 50 to as high as 100 percent. None of them have ever been O2 cleaned and one of them has even had seven hydros. I do visual them myself frequently, and I have arrangements with the local shops where I dive to fill them in the event I'm away from my home compressor. Any blender worth his salt can PP blend into a non-O2 cleaned tank without incident. Whether he chooses to do so, is however up to him.

If your shop is willing to do the cleaning (tank and valve) for a reasonable rate, then go ahead and let him O2 clean your tanks. If not, you may have to "get" some stickers that will convince him that it has been done according to an established standard. A third option might be to get him to look over your shoulder while you yourself do the actual cleaning.

[fishkilla]

sounds like they are just trying to get more money out of your area divers. my dive shop only requires one o2 cleaning. and they fill all their tanks with clean air even the none nitrox tanks. i'd try to find a different dive shop or see if they will cut you a really good deal on the o2 cleaning.

[Divin' fool]

Swim and dive....arn't you concerned with the possibility of ignition with a tank that has not been O2 cleaned with a 50 to 100% concentration? I'm no expert, but from what I've learned the real concern with a tank that is not O2 cleaned is at concentrations above 40%.
:confused:

I don't think that tanks need to be recleaned unless they have been contaminated by a compressor using "oil lubrication". Again I'm no expert, just what I've read and heard.

[swimndive]

Divin'Fool, No I'm really not at all concerned about mixtures > 40% in my tanks or my regulators for that matter. For a fire to actually occur I still need to have three things: Oxygen, Fuel and a spark or sufficient heat to cause ignition. By eliminating my risk of adiabatic heating (use a needle valves and avoid potential flow potential restrictions) and avoiding the use of any materials that can potentially create sparks, I remove my risk of fire. I do on the other hand worry very much about O2 concentrations > 35% when I continuous blend nitrox mixes through my compressor. There I have sufficient heat and fuel to ruin my day, so I prefer to keep the percentages <40%.

I do recommend that you pay some attention to the actual pressure of the O2 you are handling. The higher the pressures the more potential there is for problems. You have more leeway when you are dealing with 500psi of pure O2 then say 3000psi. As I said before, any blender worth his salt should be able to fill dabulltrouble's tanks, O2 clean or not. Let me take that one step further, any blender should be able to fill an 80 with 32% nitrox, even if the tank to be filled has a cup of compressor oil in it. I don't want to give the impression that you can actually be careless and still live (you can, it happens all the time), but I would like to see some of the b.s. that shops foist onto the public exposed. O2 cleaning may or may not be the most effective way to eliminate one leg in the "fire triangle" (don't try this on redheads). I can see several reasons for shops wanting to do this, ranging from safety concerns to extortion. If O2 cleaning is not viable option (too expensive, cleaning materials unavailable, too lazy) all is not lost.

If you want to learn any more about this I recommend getting a copy of the oxyhacker's companion.

[gotta go]

Dabulltrouble
If your tanks are being filled by PP blending then they should be O2 cleaned and Viton Orings used with a O2 compatible lubricant. That's regardless of the mixtures you use. The annual cleaning would not be nessacary if you could be totally sure no contaminants entered the tank during the period. I don't know how you could ever be 100% positive, also, Equipment corrodes more in the high O2 enviroment so if I were you I would even consider a valve service each year if using +30% N2. So if it was me diving this equipment I would follow your dive shops advice, they sound like they are looking out for your safety.

[Paul]

Spoke with Mike at Meridian up here in Jax. They indicate that the tanks only need to be re O2 cleaned every 5 years at the Hydro. Got the same story from Brian at Atlantic Pro Dive. Sounds like your local dive shop is just practicing revenue enhancement.

Paul

[FredT]

I'll O2 clean all cleanable tanks after each hydro and install a cleaned and rebuilt valve. Lined tanks will usually get a clean valve too, since the cleaning is part of my normal valve rebuild procedure. Yearly cleaning is not on the schedule, but a yearly vip is, as is a vip and cleaning any time I think there is a possibility of "dirty" air being put in them.

OTOH I do all my own maintenance, so the $ outlay bit isn't a big deal. Tanks vip and clean is about $2 for parts, chemistry, and sticker, a valve clean and rebuild is about $6 if the seat plug has to be changed, maybe $2 for new viton rings if not.

"Standard" rules for servicing life support and hydraulic ysstems call for replacing any o-ring if it's disturbed after it's been pressureized. Viton rings are cheap if you get them from a bearing or seal house in "bulk" quantities of 50 or more per size. Viton rings in a small sealed UV protecting container will last a decade or more so buying in bulk is not as bad an idea as it first looks. As an adder the price per ring goes down fast as quantity goes up. 10 rings can often be had for about the same final price as 1, and 50 are often only a few $ over the 10 ring total price.

FT

[Merk]

The dive shop I use O2 cleans which is good for 5 years but the visual is still required once a year.

From my experience, whether a dive shop requires an O2 cleaning 1 a year or every 5 years depends on the equipment they use to fill your tanks. The shop I use filters the air twice before the air is banked then sends it through two more filters before it goes into my tank. You can also check to see the shop is 02 clean certified. If they are recommending you clean your tanks every year then I would find a different dive shop. If they are not confident in the quality of air they are putting in my tanks then neither am I.

Dave - I am in no way recommending these guys but I use Scuba Quest in Orlando. I think there is a shop on 436 (I think) up near you. You can also get a 20 fill card for $6.25 Nitrox fills.

[fishhunta]

i work at a shop, gee i seem to start alot of replies that way, and there is no way you need to clean your tanks every year. all i do is simple green tyhe tanks and valves and change the o-rings to viton and your ready to go. the o2 clean thing is a standard set by the department of transportation that is not catered to scuba cylinders. the is never a high enough psi of pure o2 in a tank to cause a fire except in extreme circumstances, definately not for mixes <50%. any shop that says otherwise is ripping you off or paranoid.

[fizisition]

I was at a LDS today and they insisted O2 clean annualy
I argued every 5 yrs. they said no because you cant do a yearly
visual with out exposing the tank to dirty air. can someone
help me and give me some feed back on this.

[Reef Raider]

Did you go to the same B.S. shop Dave did?? If not I think I would find another dive shop to spend my money at.

[Speargun]

I was at a LDS today and they insisted O2 clean annualy.
I argued every 5 yrs. they said no because you cant do a yearly
visual with out exposing the tank to dirty air.

Does that mean that we're walking around breathing "dirty air"?

[junior]

O2 cleaning is a simple, but time consuming process. It really comes down to the fillers sense of safety when filling your tanks given the potential for problems when filling "dirty" tanks with high pressure O2 in partial pressure filling. You find it with other aspects of filling. Most shops now refuse to fill without vip+, but a few years back the only people who cared were down in the keys. They had a few guys blow legs and hands off and decided that they wanted another level of protection for the filler. Now everyone uses this eddy current inspection, probably a good thing. I worked for a maniac that would fill anything and as long as it didn't blow, it was fine. I stood on the other side of the training pool and watched the owner of one of the oldest (PADI store #301) shops around fill a tank that starting spewing air from the neck while he was holding it down in the water to see if it had neck cracks:confused:. At a lot of shops you are bound to find completely different sets of rules, recommendations and scientific blah blah to back up the reasons for whatever the hell they require of you to fill your tank. Sounds like some of the guys have some good recommendations for some shops that will be more reasonable. Just my thoughts.

[bubblejunkie]

So is o2 cleaning a rip-off or what? I had a o2 tank visualed and the shop filled it with regular air because they didn't think I was nitrox certified, so doesn't that mean i gotta start all over?? Dive shop gets plenty of my money I hope I don't have to find a new one, good ones are hard to find may start buying from the internet.

[dothanfrogman]

Junkie it really depends on the grade of air they use.

[junior]

I don't think it is a rip off. Just don't let anyone put regular compressed air in your O2 cleaned tanks. It needs to be filled with clean air (extra filters) if they won't give you a nitrox fill. Otherwise, once you put regular air into the tank it is considered dirty again by many shops. How much they charging you for O2 cleaning? You should get a better deal by doing the cleaning at the same time as a visual you would hope.

[Speargun]

I just bought a brand new 120 hp tank. I was told that it was o2 clean & came with viton o-rings. I took it to one of my lds (the only one that fills nitrox) because the tank didn't have the nitrox sticker. The owner charged me for an o2 cleaning and VIP.
After the fact we were talking & he made the comment "Oh, I bet that tank already had viton o-rings in it." Kind of makes me wonder if he did anything other than put a sticker on it.
My question is, if the tank comes from the factory o2 clean, does it need to be cleaned by your lds? Or is this just another form of revenue inhancement?

[kitefisherman]

If the tank came from the manufacturer O2 clean, it should have inspection sticker(s) showing the VIP date and that it was O2 cleaned. You do not have to clean it again. The green and yellow sticker that wraps around the tank shoulder doesn't have anything to do with certifying that the tank is O2 clean; they are just a safety measure to prevent you from diving with a nitrox tank and mistaking it for an air tank.

I've never seen an O2 clean tank come from the manufacturer with a "nitrox" sticker on it. You buy the tank and then buy and apply the sticker if you intend to fill it with nitrox.

[Speargun]

This guy is like clockwork. He can't go 10 minutes without making some kind of comment about buying something from the store. Says that his students need to buy thier gear from him so that they don't buy the "wrong" stuff.
I've been in the store when a lady came in looking for a present for her husband & he flat out lied to her & sold her stuff she didn't need.
Since he's the only nitrox station in town, I'm stuck doing business with him.

[poorshot]

I had the same guy as speargun fill my tanks once. He only put 3000 in hp tanks. Needless to say he only did it to me once.

[Divin' fool]

FYI....found a guy in Deland that will O2 clean, VIP, sticker and Fill with Nitrox for $25. I'm going to deliver 5 tanks on Sat. PM me if anyone needs info.

[Speargun]

I just talked to my buddy who is wanting to get certified. He stopped by this guys shop because he's offering a 2 for 1 special. He was told $75 for class, $75 for books + cost of mask, fins, snorkel, weights, entry fee to springs, & a required trip to West Palm. Total = $500 - $600!!!

BTW, my friend already owns fins & weights, but was told that he would have to buy new soft weights because he couldn't use the old cast lead weights. The fins were old & the straps were broke, so he would need to buy new fins too!

I called our only other lds & was told $99 for class & books plus cost of entry to the springs for a checkout dive. He still will have to buy or borrow a mask and snorkel, but I doubt that he will end up spending more than $110 - $150 for the class and entry to the springs.

These type of people really piss me off. He is more worried about putting money in his pocket than promoting the sport. I wonder how many people have come into his shop and left thinking diving cost too much, never realizing that they could have gone somewhere else & got trained for hundreds of dollars less.

I'll climb down off my soapbox now.......

[junior]

I agree with you speargun, some shops really do try and rake the unknowing over the coals. But, no one can convince me that diving is supposed to be a cheap sport. In fact, I would guess it is one of the most expensive sports to get into. You can find good deals on used dive equipment and such, but it still costs a lot more than used golf clubs or snow skis. Even if you have a buddy to teach you for free and you get all your dive equipment for free, you are still paying an easy 50 bucks everytime you want to go out diving between air fills and boat trip. Even if you own your own boat, it still ain't free to go out diving since you are paying for the boat, gas etc. Some people just have a lot of money to spend on diving. I've seen new divers come in and spend 2 grand on equipment and classes and then come in a few months later to replace it all because they saw something else they liked:confused:. Anyway, you can always find less expensive alternatives, but the expensive shops and equipment pushers are there for the people who want to spend a lot of money. As long as you've got alternatives, you're all set:cool:.

[bubblejunkie]

Start spreading the word, he won't be in business long. spend your money somewhere else even if it costs a little extra for the drive. And always buy good gear once. My original Zeagle is bout 10 years old, I have a new one but like the old one better. Goodluck