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View Full Version : DC vs. Heller hasn't changed much


Bill McIntyre
01-02-2009, 01:31 PM
I'm not trying to start an argument over the 2d Amendment. I'm just posting this article to show that the Supreme Court decision doesn't seem to have had the results that the gun rights community had hoped for.
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Adam WinklerProfessor at UCLA School of Law
Posted January 2, 2009 | 11:19 AM (EST)

In June, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a landmark ruling on the Second Amendment right to bear arms, D.C. v. Heller. For over 70 years, the federal courts had read that amendment to protect only a state's right to organize militias, like the National Guard. In a long-awaited victory for the gun rights movement, the Court reversed course and held that the Second Amendment protected an individual's right to own guns for personal self-defense.

So far, the victory hasn't turned out exactly as the gun rights folks had hoped.

As many legal scholars predicted, the Supreme Court's decision led to a tidal wave of Second Amendment challenges to gun control. Every person charged with a gun crime saw the Supreme Court's decision as a Get Out of Jail Free Card.

To date, the lower federal courts have ruled in over 60 different cases on the constitutionality of a wide variety of gun control laws. There have been suits against laws banning possession of firearms by felons, drug addicts, illegal aliens, and individuals convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors. The courts have ruled on the constitutionality of laws prohibiting particular types of weapons, including sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, and specific weapons attachments. Defendants have challenged laws barring guns in school zones and post offices, and laws outlawing "straw" purchases, the carrying of concealed weapons, possession of an unregistered firearm, and particular types of ammunition. The courts have upheld every one of these laws.

Since Heller, its Gun Control: 60, Individual Right: 0.

Before the Supreme Court's decision, none of the numerous challenges to gun control laws raised in recent months would have had any hope of winning. Now, with a revolutionary ruling recognizing a renewed individual right to keep and bear arms, they still have no hope of winning.

About the only real change from Heller is that gun owners have to pay higher legal fees to find out they lose.

The basis for most of these lower court rulings upholding gun control is a paragraph near the end of the Supreme Court's decision that, at the time, seemed like a throwaway. The Supreme Court wrote that "nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions on the commercial sale of arms."

What gun rights advocates are discovering is that the vast majority of gun control laws fit within these categories.

"I would have preferred that that not have been there," says Robert Levy about this laundry list of Second Amendment exceptions. Levy, executive director of the CATO Institute, which funded the Heller litigation, believes that paragraph in Scalia's opinion "created more confusion than light."

But to a die-hard gun rights advocate, the problem is exactly the opposite: the paragraph shed too much light. It revealed that the Supreme Court believes that almost all gun control measures on the books today are perfectly lawful -- a message that hasn't been lost on the lower courts.

Hardliners in the gun rights community cannot help but be disappointed with their long-awaited triumph.

mepps1
01-02-2009, 07:25 PM
I think the author has substantially misconstrued expectations for Heller. I certainly didn't anticipate an overhaul of gun laws, nationwide.

If Heller was revolutionary at all, it was only in the sense that it may prevent or reverse truly draconian gun laws.

If they truly determined to elect Republicans, the Dems can still push through all sorts of ridiculous restrictions......... for about two years.

mepps1
01-02-2009, 07:29 PM
But isn't your thread title exactly what a number of us on this board said when various idiots were telling us that the elections didn't matter in regard to 2A rights?

Bill McIntyre
01-02-2009, 07:40 PM
But isn't your thread title exactly what a number of us on this board said when various idiots were telling us that the elections didn't matter in regard to 2A rights?

I don't know who said that, but sure the elections matter. It was a 5-4 decision in favor of the right to guns being an individual right. Would a 6-3 decision have changed anything in this case. Scalia wrote that majority opinion. He may not be my favorite justice, but he is probably the smartest justice, so I don't think he included that last line by accident. He knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe he even believed it.

But back to elections. Even without Obama selecting the next justice, gun rights people still didn't get exactly what they wanted. If McCain selected the next few, would they have left that line out? Maybe. It still wouldn't change what the Constitution says. It would only change the people who think they know what it says.

bgbill
01-02-2009, 07:50 PM
Bill,

D.C. is practically ignoring the ruling, they are still imposing gun control laws that Heller addressed, they know the legal system is slow and they will continue doing what they want no matter what the law says.

We used to be a Ntion of laws, now it is run by politicians who are in it for what they can get, Blago is a prime example, he thinks he did nothing wrong and given the right jury he may get away with trying to sell Obama's seat.

Christof
01-04-2009, 12:51 PM
But back to elections. Even without Obama selecting the next justice, gun rights people still didn't get exactly what they wanted.
Strange Bill, I see it differently:eek:.....

I remember many gun-rights people saying it wouldnt make much difference, it was more of a clarification of the second ammendment... I do remember many on the left claiming it would cause chaos, and masses of crazed lunitics would now be on the streets with guns..... Of course, the chicken little theory was again wrong....

mcjaret
01-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Way too soon to tell what impact Heller will have. As for the "60 cases" those are all trial court decisions. Eventually some will wind through the appellate courts and maybe even back to the Supremes. Then we will start to find out how much regulation can be covered by that line of dicta.

jadairiii
01-06-2009, 08:46 AM
Who would have thought that the courts would up hold laws banning weapons from "convicted felons, drug addicts, illegal aliens, and individuals convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors"? And sawed off shot guns and machine guns, the Horror!

Law Professors need to “Publish or Perish” so take this article for what its worth. He should have added a picture of Paris Hilton to his thought provoking writing. This "professor" is a hack.


John