We Misunderestimated Bush

[bayboy]

Nugh said

[jackpine savage]

True, he was an even bigger *****in idiot than anyone ever thought.

[divefilm]

True, he was an even bigger *****in idiot than anyone ever thought.

:stupid:

Except for the people that he's actually smarter than. They all seem to be impressed with him (look billy bob! He's breathing AND chewing gum! Some kind of magic!)

[rhyne]

the proof would be in evaluating how he has profited/profits after his term. i'm thinking he may be dumb as hell, yes...dumb like a fox.

[aaron proffitt]

:stupid:

Except for the people that he's actually smarter than. They all seem to be impressed with him (look billy bob! He's breathing AND chewing gum! Some kind of magic!)

Weren't you originally from a rural area before you found yourself trendy ?

That's two posts now in a pretty rapid fashion that seem to denote some kind of anger towards rural folks.... what's up ? Get buggered by an uncle in the barn ?

[jackpine savage]

I think Bush is as big of an ass in the country as he is in the city.

[Mutt]

Weren't you originally from a rural area before you found yourself trendy ?

That's two posts now in a pretty rapid fashion that seem to denote some kind of anger towards rural folks.... what's up ? Get buggered by an uncle in the barn ?

DiveFilm"Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West LA
Posts: 1,701"

I think that is either over there near Lake Charles or down in Lower Alabama near Mobile... Lol

[aaron proffitt]

DiveFilm"Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West LA
Posts: 1,701"

I think that is either over there near Lake Charles or down in Lower Alabama near Mobile... Lol

Hadn't thought of that... muhbad.

[josedesucre]

True, he was an even bigger *****in idiot than anyone ever thought.

"I think Bush is as big of an ass in the country as he is in the city"

"All of my criticisms of Bush have been on his policies. I dont think he is a bad person or a corrupt one. I think the people who call him a war criminal are idiots and wrong. Criticize the policies not the man."

Dont you think there is a litlle bit of a contradiction between the first two statements and the third one, that you posted not too long ago, Jack?
Can you be a *****in idiot and a big ass, and yet not a bad person?

[divefilm]

Weren't you originally from a rural area before you found yourself trendy ?

That's two posts now in a pretty rapid fashion that seem to denote some kind of anger towards rural folks.... what's up ? Get buggered by an uncle in the barn ?


Nope, los angeles born and bred. Have family in the midwest, but we don't let them out of the basement.:D

Don't worry, I may talk shit now, but the way arnold is running California, we will have the worst education system in the country in about 3 months. Mississippi will look good as far as education goes compared to us.

And I have nothing against rural folk, just seems that 99% of the people on this board from Florida think bush is god and would gladly suck him off on a hot day if his balls itched. Maybe I got the message wrong.

Then again, I'm unemployed and I've been drinking since 9am, so legally I'm a floridian:D

[divefilm]

"I think Bush is as big of an ass in the country as he is in the city"

"All of my criticisms of Bush have been on his policies. I dont think he is a bad person or a corrupt one. I think the people who call him a war criminal are idiots and wrong. Criticize the policies not the man."


So, by this logic, hitler is ok, but his policies sucked?

[bayboy]

Nope, los angeles born and bred. Have family in the midwest, but we don't let them out of the basement.:D

Don't worry, I may talk shit now, but the way arnold is running California, we will have the worst education system in the country in about 3 months. Mississippi will look good as far as education goes compared to us.

And I have nothing against rural folk, just seems that 99% of the people on this board from Florida think bush is god and would gladly suck him off on a hot day if his balls itched. Maybe I got the message wrong.

Then again, I'm unemployed and I've been drinking since 9am, so legally I'm a floridian:D

Misssissippi looks amazing compared to florida, your completly oblivious, floridians start drinking at 9:45, We have some decency

[Bill McIntyre]

I watched parts of that final press conference that he had yesterday, and I'll have to admit feeling a big sorry for him while he tried to justify his record. Even though I think he may have done irreparable damage to our nation, its hard to tell how much of it was evil and how much was just that he was in way over his head. It was pitiful to hear some of the things he was saying.

For instance, he said that his big problem with the handling of Katrina was that he didn't land Air Force One in Baton Rouge or New Orleans rather than just flying over. Does he actually believe that is what made the difference, or does he actually believe that the public is so dumb as to not recall how slow and ineffective was the government's response. Whether he landed or not is just a matter of image, and didn't make a hell of a lot of difference in the long run if no goods and services showed up.

Same with Iraq. He said it was a mistake to put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign on the carrier. If that was his only problem with Iraq, then no one would give a shit.

Another thing that bothered me was that he said something like "we had fun every day." No shit? If it was fun, he didn't realize how serious things were.

I was impressed with some warm and gracious things he said about Obama- something the effect that he will do fine with the support of his wonderful wife and kids. That was nice.

I think he did us great damage and was a horrible President, but its hard for me to hate him. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live with what he did. I guess I wouldn't make a good Republican, because I'm already seeing hatred on this board for Obama, and he hasn't even taken office yet. I really can't understand, for instance, what would prompt someone to put up a bunch of mug shots (or alleged mug shots) of criminals with Obama t-shirts on. Does that mean everyone who voted for Obama is a criminal? I wore an Obama t-shirt, but they didn't get my picture. Millions of people who have not been arrested wore Obama t-shirts. But I guess petty shit like that will have to do until they can find another way to vent the hatred.

[Spear CR]

So, by this logic, hitler is ok, but his policies sucked?

That is stupid and so is the guy that posted it. According your logic, that is not an attack.;)

Except for the people that he's actually smarter than.

Looks like LA has a little work to do in the English department.:D

los angeles born and bred

Where did that uncle get catch ya?:p

[patrick]

So, by this logic, hitler is ok, but his policies sucked?

no. hitler wasnt stupid. he was crazy. and evil. if bush were like hitler, we would have had all the oil we ever wanted, as the entire middle east would have come under us rule..

you can be stupid, have your country do seemingly evil things, yet still not be an evil person. there are other folks in government that led him to do the things that were done.. have you ever had a dog that hated water, and would never go into the pool, until you threw the tennis ball in? then sometimes you could pretend to throw it, and the dog goes flying into the water, and swims around and around looking for that invisible tennis ball? thats pretty much what we have here... imho.

[Bill McIntyre]

N
Don't worry, I may talk shit now, but the way arnold is running California, we will have the worst education system in the country in about 3 months. Mississippi will look good as far as education goes compared to us.


Don't lay it all on Arnold. I think the hard right Republicans in the state legislature deserve more of the blame. CA is one of the very few states that require a 2/3 vote to pass a budget, and the no-tax ideologues would rather see the state go down in flames than raise revenue. There was an article in today's LA Times that pointed out that Republicans used to have some people in the middle. Arnold is not a mad man and is willing to compromise, but he can't bring along the Republican kamakazis.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-schrag13-2009jan13,0,4280689.story
Forty years back, when the party's leaders included such moderates as Bill Bagley, John Veneman and Robert Monagan, California Republicans didn't take no-new-tax pledges, and those who voted for tax hikes didn't face primary opponents backed by their own party.

In 1967, faced with a serious fiscal crisis, Ronald Reagan signed the biggest tax increase in the history of this or any other state.

Similarly, in 1991, Pete Wilson -- facing a huge budget deficit -- negotiated a compromise that more or less split the difference between program cuts and tax increases. Five years ago, Senate Minority Leader Jim Brulte, a smart, fully certified conservative, would say that, despite his conservatism, he was the left wing of his party.

[divefilm]

Misssissippi looks amazing compared to florida, your completly oblivious, floridians start drinking at 9:45, We have some decency

My mistake. I never was good at being on time.:D

[Marcus]

Don't lay it all on Arnold. I think the hard right Republicans in the state legislature deserve more of the blame. CA is one of the very few states that require a 2/3 vote to pass a budget, and the no-tax ideologues would rather see the state go down in flames than raise revenue. There was an article in today's LA Times that pointed out that Republicans used to have some people in the middle. Arnold is not a mad man and is willing to compromise, but he can't bring along the Republican kamakazis.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-schrag13-2009jan13,0,4280689.story

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about cutting spending??? Why is more taxes the only way out?

[divefilm]

I watched parts of that final press conference that he had yesterday, and I'll have to admit feeling a big sorry for him while he tried to justify his record. Even though I think he may have done irreparable damage to our nation, its hard to tell how much of it was evil and how much was just that he was in way over his head. It was pitiful to hear some of the things he was saying.

For instance, he said that his big problem with the handling of Katrina was that he didn't land Air Force One in Baton Rouge or New Orleans rather than just flying over. Does he actually believe that is what made the difference, or does he actually believe that the public is so dumb as to not recall how slow and ineffective was the government's response. Whether he landed or not is just a matter of image, and didn't make a hell of a lot of difference in the long run if no goods and services showed up.

Same with Iraq. He said it was a mistake to put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign on the carrier. If that was his only problem with Iraq, then no one would give a shit.

Another thing that bothered me was that he said something like "we had fun every day." No shit? If it was fun, he didn't realize how serious things were.

I was impressed with some warm and gracious things he said about Obama- something the effect that he will do fine with the support of his wonderful wife and kids. That was nice.

I think he did us great damage and was a horrible President, but its hard for me to hate him. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live with what he did. I guess I wouldn't make a good Republican, because I'm already seeing hatred on this board for Obama, and he hasn't even taken office yet. I really can't understand, for instance, what would prompt someone to put up a bunch of mug shots (or alleged mug shots) of criminals with Obama t-shirts on. Does that mean everyone who voted for Obama is a criminal? I wore an Obama t-shirt, but they didn't get my picture. Millions of people who have not been arrested wore Obama t-shirts. But I guess petty shit like that will have to do until they can find another way to vent the hatred.


I agree. What Bush was saying is "I regret how I mishandled the media side.

[Bill McIntyre]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about cutting spending??? Why is more taxes the only way out?

But they do talk about cutting spending. For instance, CA is already down to 47th in per-pupil spending on education, and Arnold is proposing cutting the school year by a week. The University of California is proposing admitting more out-of-state students and fewer in-state students because the ones from out of state pay higher tuition. The University system is going to admit 6% fewer student to the freshman class next year.

Our freeways are crumbling, etc. etc. etc. We've cut a lot of spending, but that isn't enough. We need some revenue.

Of course a lot of those Republicans who refuse to raise taxes of any kind would prefer that the public education system crumble so they can justify vouchers for the private schools where they already send their kids.

If the great God Reagan could permit the greatest tax increase ever by a state, maybe we could at least compromise now.

[jackpine savage]

"I think Bush is as big of an ass in the country as he is in the city"

"All of my criticisms of Bush have been on his policies. I dont think he is a bad person or a corrupt one. I think the people who call him a war criminal are idiots and wrong. Criticize the policies not the man."

Dont you think there is a litlle bit of a contradiction between the first two statements and the third one, that you posted not too long ago, Jack?
Can you be a *****in idiot and a big ass, and yet not a bad person?

There are a lot of ass's and idiots who are nice people. There just ass's and idiots and they can't help being what they are.

[Marcus]

Surely there's other opportunities to cut spending then education. What about salaries, social programs for immigrants, etc.?

[Bill McIntyre]

Surely there's other opportunities to cut spending then education. What about salaries, social programs for immigrants, etc.?

Well shit, I'd have to do some research and I'm not up to it right after dinner, but there have been numerous cuts other than education. Hospitals are closing, and Orange County just laid off a significant portion of its social services staff. I imagine you will think that is a good thing, but there are actually elderly white folks natural born citizens that will fall through the cracks.

[josedesucre]

I watched parts of that final press conference that he had yesterday, and I'll have to admit feeling a big sorry for him while he tried to justify his record. Even though I think he may have done irreparable damage to our nation, its hard to tell how much of it was evil and how much was just that he was in way over his head. It was pitiful to hear some of the things he was saying.

For instance, he said that his big problem with the handling of Katrina was that he didn't land Air Force One in Baton Rouge or New Orleans rather than just flying over. Does he actually believe that is what made the difference, or does he actually believe that the public is so dumb as to not recall how slow and ineffective was the government's response. Whether he landed or not is just a matter of image, and didn't make a hell of a lot of difference in the long run if no goods and services showed up.

Same with Iraq. He said it was a mistake to put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign on the carrier. If that was his only problem with Iraq, then no one would give a shit.

Another thing that bothered me was that he said something like "we had fun every day." No shit? If it was fun, he didn't realize how serious things were.

I was impressed with some warm and gracious things he said about Obama- something the effect that he will do fine with the support of his wonderful wife and kids. That was nice.

I think he did us great damage and was a horrible President, but its hard for me to hate him. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live with what he did. I guess I wouldn't make a good Republican, because I'm already seeing hatred on this board for Obama, and he hasn't even taken office yet. I really can't understand, for instance, what would prompt someone to put up a bunch of mug shots (or alleged mug shots) of criminals with Obama t-shirts on. Does that mean everyone who voted for Obama is a criminal? I wore an Obama t-shirt, but they didn't get my picture. Millions of people who have not been arrested wore Obama t-shirts. But I guess petty shit like that will have to do until they can find another way to vent the hatred.

You are right: that is petty shit, probably intended to annoy the liberals but not really an expresion of hate. In any case, there is no comparison with the amount and intensity of the hatred that liberals have demonstrated for Bush this past eight years, even before Katrina and Iraq. Most liberals never recovered from the 2000 election.

[jfjf]

. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live with what he did. I ...

I know the death toll in Iraq was only around 4,000 and that isn't much for a war from a historical perspective. I prefer to consider how many legs and arms were lost by the military in Iraq and how many soldiers will return with mental disorders and head injuries and life long disabilities.

For him to say he regrets a banner and fail to specifically mention the dead and maimed Americans, let alone the huge civilian casualties suffered by the citizens of that country, is obscene.

He did almost NOTHING right. I don't feel sorry for him; I feel sorry for us.

[jackpine savage]

You are right: that is petty shit, probably intended to annoy the liberals but not really an expresion of hate. In any case, there is no comparison with the amount and intensity of the hatred that liberals have demonstrated for Bush this past eight years, even before Katrina and Iraq. Most liberals never recovered from the 2000 election.

I would have to agree with you on that one. Its pretty sad that they have become exactly how the Republicans were during the Clinton years.

[jackpine savage]

Surely there's other opportunities to cut spending then education. What about salaries, social programs for immigrants, etc.?

Marcus if you want to make a dent in government spending you have to take the axe to the military budget, social security and medicare/medicaid. Everything else represents peanuts compared to these. I suppose we could have paid of our national debt, a possibility at the beginning of the Bush administration with the surplus. That would save us about 350-400 billion a year in interest payments. Sort of like paying of you credit card first, then putting money in a savings account.

[Marcus]

Marcus if you want to make a dent in government spending you have to take the axe to the military budget, social security and medicare/medicaid. Everything else represents peanuts compared to these. I suppose we could have paid of our national debt, a possibility at the beginning of the Bush administration with the surplus. That would save us about 350-400 billion a year in interest payments. Sort of like paying of you credit card first, then putting money in a savings account.

Jackpine, we're talking about California's budget, not the US.

Bill, don't try to paint me as cruel and inhumane. IMO, there are some social services needed. There is also the argument that social services are cruel and inhumane because it keeps the individual down and non-productive.
I know you're a die hard socialist who believes that you can't rely on the good nature of people to take care of the neighbor's and family. You believe that we should all be forced by billions of dollars of wasteful red tape to get this task accomplished. That way anyone can make bad decisions, leave the support of family and neighbors to go anywhere they want and demand social services (aka money) from other more grounded realistic productive individuals of society and never learn that there are consequences for making bad decisions. They can then have children and teach them this, too.
BTW, I've been taking care of 4 brothers, 10 and under, that are not mine, for the past 4 years, at a time when I should be having and taking care of my own. They are the product of the aforementioned people and has been very stressful on my life...especially in this economy. But, I have not made bad decisions in my life and have the support of family which has been a big help.

[Bill McIntyre]

J
I know you're a die hard socialist who believes that you can't rely on the good nature of people to take care of the neighbor's and family. You believe that we should all be forced by billions of dollars of wasteful red tape to get this task accomplished. That way anyone can make bad decisions, leave the support of family and neighbors to go anywhere they want and demand social services (aka money) from other more grounded realistic productive individuals of society and never learn that there are consequences for making bad decisions. They can then have children and teach them this, too.


I'd prefer it if you would stick to saying what you believe and leave it to me to say what I believe.

[Spear CR]

I'd prefer it if you would stick to saying what you believe and leave it to me to say what I believe.

Maybe you should do the same, Bill.

I can research many times where you have told someone what they are thinking.

Glass house...throwing rocks....etc.

[Nate Baker]

Jackpine, we're talking about California's budget, not the US.

Bill, don't try to paint me as cruel and inhumane. IMO, there are some social services needed. There is also the argument that social services are cruel and inhumane because it keeps the individual down and non-productive.
I know you're a die hard socialist who believes that you can't rely on the good nature of people to take care of the neighbor's and family. You believe that we should all be forced by billions of dollars of wasteful red tape to get this task accomplished. That way anyone can make bad decisions, leave the support of family and neighbors to go anywhere they want and demand social services (aka money) from other more grounded realistic productive individuals of society and never learn that there are consequences for making bad decisions. They can then have children and teach them this, too.
BTW, I've been taking care of 4 brothers, 10 and under, that are not mine, for the past 4 years, at a time when I should be having and taking care of my own. They are the product of the aforementioned people and has been very stressful on my life...especially in this economy. But, I have not made bad decisions in my life and have the support of family which has been a big help.

You misunderstand the situation. Many people don't have family and neighbors to rely on. I wonder how many people's family and neighbors write off people in need because they "made bad decisions in life". Besides, many social programs can't be administered well on a local level. You need statewide or nationwide programs to get it done, red tape and all.

Keep in mind that the government doesn't have a monopoly on red tape. I read somewhere that something like 70% of the International Red Cross's revenues go to administrative and logistical expenses. But, everyone understands that even with that type of structure, the organization still does a lot of good.

But Bill's right. The size of the California deficit is growing daily. It's unbelievably huge. Cutting services is part of the program. In fact, someone here on Spearboard who works for a government contractor (road crew?) mentioned he was given a two week unpaid "vacation" during the holidays.

[Marcus]

You misunderstand the situation. Many people don't have family and neighbors to rely on. I wonder how many people's family and neighbors write off people in need because they "made bad decisions in life". Besides, many social programs can't be administered well on a local level. You need statewide or nationwide programs to get it done, red tape and all.

Keep in mind that the government doesn't have a monopoly on red tape. I read somewhere that something like 70% of the International Red Cross's revenues go to administrative and logistical expenses. But, everyone understands that even with that type of structure, the organization still does a lot of good.

But Bill's right. The size of the California deficit is growing daily. It's unbelievably huge. Cutting services is part of the program. In fact, someone here on Spearboard who works for a government contractor (road crew?) mentioned he was given a two week unpaid "vacation" during the holidays.

I didn't misunderstand it. If people don't have family or neighbors to rely on, they most likely made some very bad decisions in their life. If they have been written off due to their bad decisions they most likely deserved it. It would then be time to fix the problems you made instead of relying on somebody else to forcibly condone your bad decisions with thier money.
Tell me, what social program can't be administered better on a local level than State or Federal? What did America do prior to all these social programs? The Red Cross isn't local level.
Administering social programs on a neighborly level puts the money where it should be... no red tape and where people have a more vested interest.

[Marcus]

I'd prefer it if you would stick to saying what you believe and leave it to me to say what I believe.

Me too...so stop with the implications.
"I imagine you will think that is a good thing, but there are actually elderly white folks natural born citizens that will fall through the cracks. "

[Nate Baker]

Tell me, what social program can't be administered better on a local level than State or Federal?

Katrina. The Red Cross was very public about their inability to help there, because charitable giving is almost always Church based in the South. Churches can only work locally and were ill equipped to deal with a catastrophe of that magnitude.

What did America do prior to all these social programs?

People, especially children, starved to death or died of diseases that got a food-hold from poor sanitation and malnutrition.


The Red Cross isn't local level.

Exactly. If you want to tackle the big problems, you have to be a big organization, which predisposes you to inefficiency.

And getting back to your personal example, you are a good man for taking care of your brothers like you do. It would be great if more people were as responsible as you are. But, I don't buy the "if I can do it everybody should do it" argument. You aren't the gold standard by which all human behavior should be measured. Peoples circumstances vary.

[Bill McIntyre]

I didn't misunderstand it. If people don't have family or neighbors to rely on, they most likely made some very bad decisions in their life. If they have been written off due to their bad decisions they most likely dese

Wow! I guess we could make up examples all day, but lets imagine a 55 year old man who has worked all his life, raised a family, and paid his bills. Now in this shitty economy he gets laid off. With our shitty health care system, he is now without health insurance because most of it is employment based. Then he gets cancer, or has a serious heart attack, or gets in a bad car accident. His kids just got out of college and started their own families, and they just don't have the ability to take care of his medical bills. His neighbors are doing their best to cover their own bills, and some of them got laid off too. Maybe things are closer in your neighborhood, but I can guarantee you that my neighbors would not put up thousands of dollars for my medical bills, and I wouldn't do it for them either.

So what bad decisions has this guy made, and why should he be written off by society?

[jackpine savage]

Wow! I guess we could make up examples all day, but lets imagine a 55 year old man who has worked all his life, raised a family, and paid his bills. Now in this shitty economy he gets laid off. With our shitty health care system, he is now without health insurance because most of it is employment based. Then he gets cancer, or has a serious heart attack, or gets in a bad car accident. His kids just got out of college and started their own families, and they just don't have the ability to take care of his medical bills. His neighbors are doing their best to cover their own bills, and some of them got laid off too. Maybe things are closer in your neighborhood, but I can guarantee you that my neighbors would not put up thousands of dollars for my medical bills, and I wouldn't do it for them either.

So what bad decisions has this guy made, and why should he be written off by society?

Screw him Bill, he is obviously a slacker and not deserving of the title " American citizen", maybe we can ship all of these undesirables of to another country so America can be populated only by hard working, law abiding Americans who always pay their own way and have never, ever received anything from the governments, taxpayers or their neighbors.

Guess Marcus will be lonely all by himself.

[fer_abella]

It is impossible to understimate Bush if you evaluate him seriously.
:eek:

[divefilm]

You are right: that is petty shit, probably intended to annoy the liberals but not really an expresion of hate. In any case, there is no comparison with the amount and intensity of the hatred that liberals have demonstrated for Bush this past eight years, even before Katrina and Iraq. Most liberals never recovered from the 2000 election.

No, I think most "liberals" never got over Bush saying "its the liberals fault, its the democrats fault" all the time for 8 years. He divided this country more than Bin Laden ever did.

[divefilm]

I know the death toll in Iraq was only around 4,000 and that isn't much for a war from a historical perspective. I prefer to consider how many legs and arms were lost by the military in Iraq and how many soldiers will return with mental disorders and head injuries and life long disabilities.

For him to say he regrets a banner and fail to specifically mention the dead and maimed Americans, let alone the huge civilian casualties suffered by the citizens of that country, is obscene.

He did almost NOTHING right. I don't feel sorry for him; I feel sorry for us.

Well said.

[BigMako]

Can we get back to the Asshat who made the disparaging remarks about Mobile?:D

[ny_er]

I know the death toll in Iraq was only around 4,000 and that isn't much for a war from a historical perspective.

not to nit pick but isn't more 100k dead?

or do Iraqis not count?

[Spear CR]

Can we get back to the Asshat who made the disparaging remarks about Mobile?:D

:lol:

Do you live on Dauphin Island?

[jfjf]

not to nit pick but isn't more 100k dead?

or do Iraqis not count?

Note to nit pick, but I specifically mentioned the civilian casualties in the next sentence, however I did fail to quantify the number.:rolleyes: