So we did torture...........

[chuam]

Detainee Was Tortured, a Bush Official Confirms

By WILLIAM GLABERSON
The senior Pentagon official in the Bush administration’s system for prosecuting detainees said in a published interview that she had concluded that interrogators had tortured a Guantánamo detainee who has sometimes been described as “the 20th hijacker” in the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The public record of the Guantánamo interrogation of the detainee, Mohammed al-Qahtani, has long included what officials labeled abusive techniques, including exposure to extreme temperatures and isolation, but the Pentagon has resisted acknowledging that his treatment rose to the level of torture.

But the official, Susan J. Crawford, told Bob Woodward of The Washington Post that she had concluded that his treatment amounted to torture when she reviewed military charges against him last year. In May she decided that the case could not be referred for trial but provided no explanation at the time.

“His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that’s why I did not refer the case” for prosecution, Ms. Crawford was quoted as saying in an article published in The Post on Wednesday.

Ms. Crawford, the convening authority of military commissions, had never given an interview on Guantánamo. She is an appointee of Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and a retired military judge who was Pentagon inspector general when Dick Cheney was secretary of defense.

Ms. Crawford said she drew her conclusions from a combination of techniques that she said had a “medical impact.”

Mr. Qahtani was originally accused of a role in the 2001 attacks along with five other Guantánamo detainees, including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks. The military prosecutors sought the death penalty.

Mr. Qahtani, a Saudi, was denied entry into the United States at the Orlando, Fla., airport in August 2001.

“There’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve been on one of those planes had he gained access to the country in August 2001,” Ms. Crawford said in the interview. “He’s a muscle hijacker.”

She added: “He’s a very dangerous man. What do you do with him now if you don’t charge him and try him? I would be hesitant to say, ‘Let him go.’ ”

Military documents show that Mr. Qahtani’s repeated interrogations at Guantánamo in 2002 and 2003 included prolonged isolation, sleep deprivation, forced nudity, exposure to cold and involuntary grooming. He was also forced to dance with a male interrogator and to obey dog commands, including “stay,” “come” and “bark.”

A Pentagon inquiry in 2005 found that the methods were “degrading and abusive.”

In a statement Tuesday night, the Pentagon said that more than a dozen prior investigations had concluded that the interrogations were lawful.

“However, subsequent to those reviews,” the statement said, “the department adopted new and more restrictive policies and improved oversight procedures for interrogation and detention operations.”

“Some of the aggressive questioning techniques used on al-Qahtani,” the statement continued, “although permissible at the time, are no longer allowed in the updated Army field manual.”

Military prosecutors said this fall that they planned to file new charges with Ms. Crawford, who is permitted wide discretion under the Pentagon’s rules for its Military Commission system of prosecuting detainees at Guantánamo.

The prosecutors said at the time that they had evidence independent of any statements that Mr. Qahtani made in his interrogations but they had yet to file those new charges.

Mr. Qahtani’s lawyers at the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York have said they believe he can never be prosecuted because of his treatment, which they said left him a broken man who has attempted suicide.

His case has drawn wide international notice. It is one of the best documented examples of extreme interrogation methods that critics of the Bush administration have said were later used as a model for other interrogations elsewhere in the world.

If new charges were filed in the current military commission system by the military prosecutors, Ms. Crawford would review them.

People who have been briefed by aides to President-elect Barack Obama have said, however, that he plans to suspend all activity in the system and may direct that all prosecutions be in federal courts.

link (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/14gitmo.html?_r=1)

[aaron proffitt]

My faith in our government has been restored.

[Bendigo Shafter]

But at least they had a wholesome breakfast before the torture.
Club Gitmo does care.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/splatzer/breakfast-club-gitmo.jpg

[jimglover1]

I'm building a waterboard for the garage. It's part of the "date my daughter"
equipment. It's going in next to the car-battery electric chair....:lol:

[zenspearo]

For every kid who can tote an AK sitting on the fence, the news of their countryman being tortured makes the decision of which side to join easier.

The GIs in the field pay in the end.

Hypothetically ask yourself what you would do as a young man if this country had been invaded based on mistaken intelligence information by the Soviet and people who look like you are tortured by the invading Soviet army in some gulag somewhere. Each and everyone with any balls would pick up a rifle and shoot at the next Soviet soldier walking by.

[divefilm]

I'm building a waterboard for the garage. It's part of the "date my daughter"
equipment. It's going in next to the car-battery electric chair....:lol:

:lol:

[Don B]

"20th hijacker" if there was evidence that he was connected and had foreknowledge of the 9-11 massacre, after they tortured him to near death they should have taken his nasty ass out back and put 2 in the back of his head. End of F--king story. and for any of you who are so worried about the way they feel over there, remember he first came over here to start the killing.

[jfjf]

"... and for any of you who are so worried about the way they feel over there, remember he first came over here to start the killing.

Damn straight! If those Iraqis hadn't flow those planes into our buildings and started the whole mess, we would never have bothered them!

I think we should have bombed the country that trained those bastards to fly too.

[Nate Baker]

Damn straight! If those Iraqis hadn't flow those planes into our buildings and started the whole mess, we would never have bothered them!

I think we should have bombed the country that trained those bastards to fly too.

:lol:

[Gradyman]

Heard something about this on talk radio today...if torture didn't work it would've been dropped as a tool 1000's of years ago...still used today because it works...

Personally I'd rather not see any country use it, but I would also like to see us all live in peace...since the latter isn't going to happen and mankind does the things we do, war & torture are going to be part of it...the country that says it's not going to is lying.

[jfjf]

Heard something about this on talk radio today...if torture didn't work it would've been dropped as a tool 1000's of years ago...still used today because it works...

.

Sorta like rape?

[Mutt]

Politically and publicly you have to deny any culpability.

The CIA has their work cut out for them, for Sure!

Unfortunately, They somehow need to be more stealthy. Pretty hard to do, these days.

We probably need to create a better, smarter, stealthier Black ops network...Of course That is If we want to continue to be in the drivers Seat.

I don't know about the rest of you, but, Personally, I like living inside the walls of a country that is not only IN The Drivers' Seat, but also Owns the Car, And Drives The World!

Most of The Rest of the World would give their left nut, and Right, if they had the opportunity to live inside these Walls!

[CraigC]

Damn straight! If those Iraqis hadn't flow those planes into our buildings and started the whole mess, we would never have bothered them!

I think we should have bombed the country that trained those bastards to fly too.

Dude, that will pass over his head, higher than the Himalayas.:D

Craig

[fishfan]

:lol:

Please post or pm the plans when you're done!!!!

:thumps:

[Catalyst]

Damn straight! If those Iraqis hadn't flow those planes into our buildings and started the whole mess, we would never have bothered them!

I think we should have bombed the country that trained those bastards to fly too.

You take your sarcasm to an extreme level.
I like it. :beer:

[elCajuna Grande]

Hypothetically ask yourself what you would do

Ok, I'll play

what would you do if your daughter was kidnapped by a group of thugs

a member of the gang is captured by authorities

would you approve the use of torture to retrieve information on her whereabouts?

[Marcus]

“the 20th hijacker”? You guys seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gDGF0AabI&feature=related


This is the start of the 10 part series. This has been shown on public television all across Russia and parts of Europe. It has not been allowed to be shown here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3kBn1usddI&feature=related

[divefilm]

Its funny, in WW2 the US troops didn't need to resort to torture. Why do we need to now? Is it because we aren't the greatest generation? I guess now we should call them "the adequate generation".

If we can't win without it, then we must not be america any more. I say sack up and do it right. Torture isn't helping our position internationally and its not helping the troops in the field.

[aaron proffitt]

Its funny, in WW2 the US troops didn't need to resort to torture.


Are you sure about that ?

[zenspearo]

Ok, I'll play

what would you do if your daughter was kidnapped by a group of thugs

a member of the gang is captured by authorities

would you approve the use of torture to retrieve information on her whereabouts?

Not even remotely close analogy or relevant.

A young man in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 or your daughter. All he sees is foreign soldiers invading his country based on a mistake that even their president admits, and his people were in Abu Ghraib with well-publicized ghastly treatment and now it is confirmed that torture is used by said foreign power.

Iraq is where our troops are right now. There has never been a link between Iraq and 9/11 or anyone's daughter in the US getting kidnapped by Iraq government. But 4000+ US troops have been killed there, and this practice of torture stokes the anger of the local population (which had nothing to do with 9/11 or anyone's daughter), and that anger translates into more Iraqi supporting the other side, which translates into more US troops targeted.

Now if you can show me credible evidence of WMD or 9/11 link to Iraq, then it's a different matter.

The My Lai massacre did more to harm America's effort in Vietnam than any other event, just about. If the local population was on the fence then, that event confirmed in their minds what they needed to do. I should know.

Stupid civilian leadership and misdeeds by a few soldiers--unfortunately, it's the other soldiers who often pay the price.

[divefilm]

Are you sure about that ?

As official US policy? Yes, I am sure about that. Not saying it didn't happen, but they didn't make it SOP.

[divefilm]

Ok, I'll play

what would you do if your daughter was kidnapped by a group of thugs

a member of the gang is captured by authorities

would you approve the use of torture to retrieve information on her whereabouts?

What would you do if someone kidnapped your daughter, took her to a "safe house" and tortured her (also called rendition) because they suspected she supported a terrorist?

[Scott]

For every kid who can tote an AK sitting on the fence, the news of their countryman being tortured makes the decision of which side to join easier.

The GIs in the field pay in the end.

Hypothetically ask yourself what you would do as a young man if this country had been invaded based on mistaken intelligence information by the Soviet and people who look like you are tortured by the invading Soviet army in some gulag somewhere. Each and everyone with any balls would pick up a rifle and shoot at the next Soviet soldier walking by.


I always said that these things made the US look bad to other countries, killing innocents, it makes Israel look like saints really, and the Bush fans or Republicans would always mouth back "Who cares what the hell the world thinks..."

until another 9/11 comes along, then back to the bombs..

[aaron proffitt]

As official US policy? Yes, I am sure about that. Not saying it didn't happen, but they didn't make it SOP.

Or is it that back when people had nuts.... sleep derprivation and exposure to cold weren't considered torture. But now that we are "kinder and gentler " ,ie. gutless, it is .

And not for nothing, but I saw an Army Field Manual that was less than 10 years old that detailed the exact way NCOs' were to dole out an ass beating for degenerate troops. It was an FM on corporal punishment . And we can't do that to folks who fit no where into the Geneva Convention ?

[aaron proffitt]

What would you do if someone kidnapped your daughter, took her to a "safe house" and tortured her (also called rendition) because they suspected she supported a terrorist?

They do it right up to the part where they behead and put it on youtube.

[divefilm]

They do it right up to the part where they behead and put it on youtube.

True, so therefore we should do the same????

Ok, lets start flying jets into buildings too.

So, we are no different the the terrorists? Good to know. I guess america has no moral superiority. We are the same bunch of slime the terrorists are, except they have balls to fight us with bullshit 80 year old russian made weapons and home made bombs. We have the tech advantage and we still have to resort to their level. Sad ****ing statement.

Wow, then they will probably win. Just like in vietnam (no, it wasn't a tie).

[aaron proffitt]

True, so therefore we should do the same????

Ok, lets start flying jets into buildings too.

So, we are no different the the terrorists? Good to know. I guess america has no moral superiority. We are the same bunch of slime the terrorists are, except they have balls to fight us with bullshit 80 year old russian made weapons and home made bombs. We have the tech advantage and we still have to resort to their level. Sad ****ing statement.

Wow, then they will probably win. Just like in vietnam (no, it wasn't a tie).

You have to radicalize every statement and view don't ya.... I'll have to try that .

We have the tech advantage, but we lack is the unleashing of it . It would be better to hug them into submission. But whenever we are told to stand down because we are taking fire from a place of worship, that's not war. It's tag.

[divefilm]

You have to radicalize every statement and view don't ya.... I'll have to try that .

We have the tech advantage, but we lack is the unleashing of it . It would be better to hug them into submission. But whenever we are told to stand down because we are taking fire from a place of worship, that's not war. It's tag.

I agree. What does that have to do with torture?

Torture is a great way to get someone to tell you what ever it is they think you want to hear.

[aaron proffitt]

I agree. What does that have to do with torture?

Torture is a great way to get someone to tell you what ever it is they think you want to hear.

Sometimes.... we are fighting an enemy who does not fear death. In fact, looks forward to it. But just about everybody fears pain. Unfortunantly, I do not believe we use methods that go into this enough.

[Mutt]

“the 20th hijacker”? You guys seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gDGF0AabI&feature=related


This is the start of the 10 part series. This has been shown on public television all across Russia and parts of Europe. It has not been allowed to be shown here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3kBn1usddI&feature=related

LOL...I am Impressed! if this is the case... We have some bad Mofo's on Our Side!

Lol, I am glad that we they are on our side.. LOl!....

Some Europeans, italian actors, etc, are jealous..because they don't have the Power to Drive the World!!! LOL!

[aaron proffitt]

... We have some bad Mofo's on Our Side!

Lol, I am glad that we they are on our side.. LOl!....



Some people seem to have some heart break over having to pick a side. So they choose to just pick 'humanity'.

Which I think is just humanerrific.

[Mutt]

Humanity... Dude there is going to be a huge battle between Humanity when this world has so many people that there won't be enough food to go around!

[divefilm]

Some people seem to have some heart break over having to pick a side. So they choose to just pick 'humanity'.

Which I think is just humanerrific.

I think most people would have an easier time picking sides if we didn't act so pathetically desperate that we have to stoop to their level. But at least we guarantee that our grand kids will have the joy of fighting this war. And their grand kids and their grand kids.......

Israel will be laughing at OUR never ending war.


Good times! (my sister is #1 prostitute in all of kazakhstan!)

[aaron proffitt]

I think most people would have an easier time picking sides if we didn't act so pathetically desperate that we have to stoop to their level. But at least we guarantee that our grand kids will have the joy of fighting this war. And their grand kids and their grand kids.......

Israel will be laughing at OUR never ending war.


Good times! (my sister is #1 prostitute in all of kazakhstan!)

It wouldn't really matter.... we'll always be Godless, ergo the enemy.

[jackpine savage]

I think Israel will be to busy fighting their never ending war.

[divefilm]

It wouldn't really matter.... we'll always be Godless, ergo the enemy.

Well thats a winning additude.:thumps:

So there is no hope of ever winning this huh? We'll always be the enemy?

And a pathetic desperate enemy at that! I guess I better start building the bomb shelter.

Never mind: we can talk circles around this issue forever. My main point is that its a ****ing pussy move to torture, and in general we aren't a pussy nation. At least we weren't until bush took over. The we spread our lips like a 2 dollar hooker 'cause every one fears the big bad terrorist. Pussies.

[aaron proffitt]

Well thats a winning additude.:thumps:

So there is no hope of ever winning this huh? We'll always be the enemy?

And a pathetic desperate enemy at that! I guess I better start building the bomb shelter.

Never mind: we can talk circles around this issue forever. My main point is that its a ****ing pussy move to torture, and in general we aren't a pussy nation. At least we weren't until bush took over. The we spread our lips like a 2 dollar hooker 'cause every one fears the big bad terrorist. Pussies.

What Planet do you live on and what are you smoking ?

You really do believe this can all be settled with love sweet love. Don'tcha ?

[jackpine savage]

What Planet do you live on and what are you smoking ?

You really do believe this can all be settled with love sweet love. Don'tcha ?

Do you think it can all be settled by killing one another?

[divefilm]

What Planet do you live on and what are you smoking ?

You really do believe this can all be settled with love sweet love. Don'tcha ?

Wow, I would hate to see an argument between you and your wife. Either huggs or torture. No middle ground huh?

And you ask what I am smoking?

So its either torture or make love to them with you huh?

[divefilm]

What Planet do you live on and what are you smoking ?

You really do believe this can all be settled with love sweet love. Don'tcha ?

And where did I say it could be settled with "sweet love".

Get off the tweak Aaron. Its bad for your brain and your complexion.

So, when you pull over a guy at a traffic stop, if he says "i forgot my drivers license" I assume you shoot him in the head? Or do you make love to him?

[aaron proffitt]

Wow, I would hate to see an argument between you and your wife. Either huggs or torture. No middle ground huh?

And you ask what I am smoking?

So its either torture or make love to them with you huh?

See ... I can radicalize an argument,too.

[divefilm]

See ... I can radicalize an argument,too.

You can and you can avoid a real answer too.

[jackpine savage]

I'm beginning to wonder if you both are one and the same person.
:scratch::scratch:

[aaron proffitt]

And where did I say it could be settled with "sweet love".

Get off the tweak Aaron. Its bad for your brain and your complexion.

So, when you pull over a guy at a traffic stop, if he says "i forgot my drivers license" I assume you shoot him in the head? Or do you make love to him?

Neither ....I make him suck my ..... well, that's neither here no there.


I haven't done a traffic stop in years.




The driver has protections under the Constituition. A soldier has protections under the Geneva Convention. A combatant has neither.

[aaron proffitt]

I'm beginning to wonder if you both are one and the same person.
:scratch::scratch:

We are ....I generally refer to him as " it" to my therapist. Or they.

[divefilm]

We are ....I generally refer to him as " it" to my therapist. Or they.

Me too! Thats so weird!

[aaron proffitt]

You can and you can avoid a real answer too.

And I got off at 1300.... started drinking at the same time. What up ?:D

Started bowling round about then,too.:D

You guys would really like me. Your wives would hate me.

[divefilm]

Neither ....I make him suck my ..... well, that's neither here no there.


I haven't done a traffic stop in years.




The driver has protections under the Constituition. A soldier has protections under the Geneva Convention. A combatant has neither.

You work for west hollywood sheriff's? I could have sworn you pulled me over:eek:

[aaron proffitt]

You work for west hollywood sheriff's? I could have sworn you pulled me over:eek:

Gross ! You sucked one off to get out of a ticket... Fag...:D


Now for 'White Stripes' tickets.... blow on

[rojodiablo]

Sorta like rape?

I take great offense to this.








Well, at least,- my hairy ass takes great offense to this.:rolleyes::lol:

[Christof]

Just dont forget that these same "officials" think that standing on one leg and being forced to listen to Snoop-dog is torture.... Of course, it may well be torture (for me it would be, I hate rap), but before the "touchy-feely" crowd took over, it wouldnt have been considered torture...
Shit, making them eat pork is also considered torture...