SBO Rule Changes...Post your rule questions here

[biggsy]

Here are some notable rule changes from the year's past:

1. You must weigh your fish in person in case there are any questions about following the rules. This means that you cannot have a member of your team weigh your fish for you. If you are not present your fish will not be weighed.

2. Although the fish categories remain the same, the sizes have changed for almost every species, based on the ever changing regulations we face in Florida. Please note that Red Snapper is excluded for the SBO and this species will be addressed at a later time for future events. Here is a summary of the Fish Categories, Sizes and Limits, many of which are different from previous years:

Fish Category - (Minimum Size (Inches) and Max. No. of Fish)
Grouper/Scamp - 24” Gag or Black; 20” Red; 20” Scamp - 2 Fish Total
Snapper - 12” Mangrove; 16” Mutton - 2 Fish Total
Hogfish and Flounder - 12” - 2 Fish Total
Triggerfish and Sheepshead - 14" for trigger and 12" for sheepshead - 2 Fish Total
Amberjack or Cobia (includes other Jacks) - 30” AJ; 33” Cobia - 1 Fish Total

Maximum number of fish weighed would be 9 per shooter.

What we did is took the most strict of the size limits based on each coast's regulations and used that number.

Here is a link to the Official Rules of the 2009 SBO - Blue Storm Classic.
http://www.swregistration.ambulanceproductions.com/pborules.pdf

Please post any rule questions you might have here.

Your weigh-master.

[SpearMax]

Here are some notable rule changes from the year's past:

1. You must weigh your fish in person in case there are any questions about following the rules. This means that you cannot have a member of your team weigh your fish for you. If you are not present your fish will not be weighed.



Thanks for explaining the above John. I have one more point to add.

Another rule change is that you must be present in person to collect prizes as follows from page two of the 2009 rules:

PRIZES AND TROPHIES
As stated, this is an aggregate tournament. There will be a nice prize table. A person’s turn at the prize table will be determined solely by aggregate score total. All persons who weigh a fish will get a turn at the prize table. Winning a trophy will not yield an earlier turn at the prize table. You must be present in person to weigh your fish and collect prizes.

[OceanEd]

could not call up the rules that were mentioned by Biggsy.

[headhunter561]

1. You must weigh your fish in person in case there are any questions about following the rules. This means that you cannot have a member of your team weigh your fish for you. If you are not present your fish will not be weighed.


:thumps::thumps::thumps::thumps:

[keezdiver]

so what are the sizes for jacks OTHER than AJ??

[biggsy]

could not call up the rules that were mentioned by Biggsy. As far as weighing your fish in person, it's mentioned on Page 2 under PRIZES AND TROPHIES in the first paragraph, last sentence.

Also on Page 4 under WEIGH-IN PROCEDURE in the second paragraph, first sentence.

Fish categories and sizes are discussed on Page 2.

[biggsy]

so what are the sizes for jacks OTHER than AJ??

Any jack legal to spear can be weighed. Use your local regulations in case you are stopped by law enforcement.

As far as the tournament goes, we will use FWC regulations for any other jack.
http://www.myfwc.com/docs/RulesRegulations/2009_SaltwaterRegsChart.pdf

Lesser Amberjack, Banded Rudderfish, Jack Crevalle, Yellow Jack, etc don't have any size limits.

[jfjf]

Biggsy:

In the link you provided, I see a slot size defined for banded and lesser AJ. They list a minimum and MAXIMUM allowable size. Are you going to be DQ'ing people for bring jacks that are too big?

[IRONHEAD]

Why no red snapper?

[biggsy]

Why no red snapper? There is a closed season in the Gulf in State and Federal waters for Florida.

Red Snapper are legal to harvest in South Atlantic Federal waters, although there is talk of closing the harvest down in June or July.

Since the closure of the Red Snapper has extended to Florida State waters, we decided to level the playing field and not give the East Coasters an unfair advantage over West Coasters, so we are eliminating Red Snapper this year.

[IRONHEAD]

There is a closed season in the Gulf in State and Federal waters for Florida.

Red Snapper are legal to harvest in South Atlantic Federal waters, although there is talk of closing the harvest down in June or July.

Since the closure of the Red Snapper has extended to Florida State waters, we decided to level the playing field and not give the East Coasters an unfair advantage over West Coasters, so we are eliminating Red Snapper this year.

even though they have an unfair advantage when it comes to hogfish?

[biggsy]

even though they have an unfair advantage when it comes to hogfish? I wasn't aware hogfish was closed on the east coast...let me check on that.

[IRONHEAD]

I wasn't aware hogfish was closed on the east coast...let me check on that.

they are not closed, just you can land a huge one easily in the gulf, here we rarely even see one. i guess we do have flounder but i think there is an advantage of a large male hog over a flounder anyday.
just saying

[Hat-Nasty]

Another rule change is that you must be present in person to collect prizes as follows from page two of the 2009 rules:[/QUOTE]

:thumps::thumps::thumps:

[biggsy]

they are not closed, just you can land a huge one easily in the gulf, here we rarely even see one. i guess we do have flounder but i think there is an advantage of a large male hog over a flounder anyday.
just saying Maybe in the Middle Grounds, but that's at least 80-100 miles offshore. I don't see huge hogs in the Fort Myers area either.

We could probably find a slight advantage for one coast over another in each category.

We try to make it as fair and balanced as possible. Comparing a species that is completely off limits to one coast to the differential in hogfish size between coasts is apples to oranges.

Last year we allowed Red Snapper from the East Coast and not the West Coast, even though you could harvest Red Snapper in State waters and not Federal waters. This year we are excluding Red Snapper altogether.

Red Snapper won't necessarily be closed for the two remaining tournaments.

Are you planning on shooting in the tournament?

[Hat-Nasty]

I agree with John on this one.

We could say the South Carolina boys have a huge advantage on Hogfish. Look at the ones CharelstonDiving has weighed in at each tourney last year. But I know the Red Snapper ban is gonna hurt them.

So things will even out.

[MajorDave]

I am planning to enter this year which will be my first tourney... so my questions have probably been answered many times but I do not find it readily...

Why are powerheads not allowed?

This is not to slight Shark Tales, but why isn't using a scooter disallowed? This seems to me to give someone with a $2500.00 scooter an advantage (allowing only scooters for the disabled, like Rob, would be the exception).

[XXX]

Are other snappers and groupers ok? Cuberas, Warsaw etc...Everything except Red snapper? Would hate to show up with something and be told you can't wiegh it.

[biggsy]

Are other snappers and groupers ok? Cuberas, Warsaw etc...Everything except Red snapper? Would hate to show up with something and be told you can't wiegh it. Everything else that is in season and of legal size is acceptable. We just tossed out the Red Snapper specifically.

[MajorDave]

Hey biggsy,

I guess your still researching my question on powerheads and scooters which I posted a week ago????

I think the rules should also only allow no decompression. This would place everyone on the same playing field. Everyone could bring their dive computers to verify no deco was used during the shooting day.

Somewhere I read rule changes are made up until May 1st???

[biggsy]

I am planning to enter this year which will be my first tourney... so my questions have probably been answered many times but I do not find it readily...

Why are powerheads not allowed?

This is not to slight Shark Tales, but why isn't using a scooter disallowed? This seems to me to give someone with a $2500.00 scooter an advantage (allowing only scooters for the disabled, like Rob, would be the exception).

Hey biggsy,

I guess your still researching my question on powerheads and scooters which I posted a week ago????

I think the rules should also only allow no decompression. This would place everyone on the same playing field. Everyone could bring their dive computers to verify no deco was used during the shooting day.

Somewhere I read rule changes are made up until May 1st??? Oh, you were serious about that question. ;) I'll do my best to answer it.

In the interest of keeping in the theme of the tournament, a person needs to take down a fish on their own and dispatch the fish with only a gun/sling/spear and their hand/knife/kill spike. Powerheads have never been allowed in the tournament, and they still won't. It's illegal in Florida State waters, so it gives us another reason to exclude them.

The scooter has been discussed but no rule change has been implemented. I am sure it will be discussed again, but I know several people who use them on the East Coast to combat the strong currents they have to deal with. If people want to use a scooter and deal with that bulky piece of equipment, more power to them.

As far as no deco, people are responsible to dive within their own limits and it's not the direction of this tournament to dictate the depth limits and time limits to which each diver can stay down. Are we also going to limit how long a free diver is allowed to stay down?

If you or someone else wanted to start a LIMITED style tournament, it seems there may be some interest in that style tournament.

You have to remember, this is an OPEN tournament...open to all divers, young and old, male and female, free diver and SCUBA diver, recreational shooter or commercial shooter. It brings all of the different spearing demographics together. We just are not inclined to set a limit on anyone's ability.

I hope this answered your question.

[jfjf]

Oh, you were serious about that question. ;) I'll do my best to answer it.

In the interest of keeping in the theme of the tournament, a person needs to take down a fish on their own and dispatch the fish with only a gun/sling/spear and their hand/knife/kill spike.

Actually, the way I read it, the rules are even more open and liberal: The diver does do not have to dispatch the fish.

A scuba diver can shoot a fish with a line gun, inflate a lift bag that is attached to the gun and then send it to the surface where the boat crew can then actually kill, gaff and/or dispatch your fish. The diver is not required to subdue or even come within 10 feet of the speared fish, correct?

I think it helps to be clear, so that everyone knows the rules.

Or we could all bring our computers to PROVE that we did not go into deco.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[smilinmatt]

Are Permit or African Pompano allowed to be weighed in under the jack category? With the recent "attention" given to spearing Permit, it might be a good idea to clarify it before weigh-in day.

[biggsy]

Are Permit or African Pompano allowed to be weighed in under the jack category? With the recent "attention" given to spearing Permit, it might be a good idea to clarify it before weigh-in day. No

[MajorDave]

Thanks biggsy for the answers. See you at weigh-in.

[biggsy]

Thanks biggsy for the answers. See you at weigh-in. Good luck in your first tournament. You will wonder why you waited so long to try one out. It's a blast!

Make sure to stop by and introduce yourself.

[dive4bugz]

1 more thing that goes with what Biggsy said, remember that the weighmaster WILL follow ALL state regs... this means that AJ, Hog, etc are measured AT THE FORK!! Snapper, Grouper, etc are measured at overall.

[SpearMax]

Thanks biggsy for the answers. See you at weigh-in.

Glad to hear that Major Dave! Thanks!

[FishDie]

Actually, the way I read it, the rules are even more open and liberal: The diver does do not have to dispatch the fish.

A scuba diver can shoot a fish with a line gun, inflate a lift bag that is attached to the gun and then send it to the surface where the boat crew can then actually kill, gaff and/or dispatch your fish. The diver is not required to subdue or even come within 10 feet of the speared fish, correct?

I think it helps to be clear, so that everyone knows the rules.

Or we could all bring our computers to PROVE that we did not go into deco.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well put Jim. I know in the St. Pete Open the rule is stated "No contestant may receive assistance with any fish until he/she has one hand on the boat."

[biggsy]

Actually, the way I read it, the rules are even more open and liberal: The diver does do not have to dispatch the fish.

A scuba diver can shoot a fish with a line gun, inflate a lift bag that is attached to the gun and then send it to the surface where the boat crew can then actually kill, gaff and/or dispatch your fish. The diver is not required to subdue or even come within 10 feet of the speared fish, correct?

I think it helps to be clear, so that everyone knows the rules.

Or we could all bring our computers to PROVE that we did not go into deco.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well put Jim. I know in the St. Pete Open the rule is stated "No contestant may receive assistance with any fish until he/she has one hand on the boat."
It appears it might not be a bad idea to reword that paragraph as it's not really clear.

[keezdiver]

that rule is touchy.

i asked this question last year....never really got an answer...

diver 1 shoots a fish and it comes off the spear, swims away, diver ends the dive.

diver 2 enters the water separately, locates the fish, shoots it again, gets his ass kicked by the fish, strings him, surfaces and climbs on the boat.

it sure as hell doesn't belong to diver 1, but according to the rules...it doesn't belong to diver 2 either....at least not for points towards the tourny.

diver 2 did the work...and shoud get the points.

[FishDie]

that rule is touchy.

i asked this question last year....never really got an answer...

diver 1 shoots a fish and it comes off the spear, swims away, diver ends the dive.

diver 2 enters the water separately, locates the fish, shoots it again, gets his ass kicked by the fish, strings him, surfaces and climbs on the boat.

it sure as hell doesn't belong to diver 1, but according to the rules...it doesn't belong to diver 2 either....at least not for points towards the tourny.

diver 2 did the work...and shoud get the points.

I don't think there would be any question behind that one. If the fish completely shook the shaft and diver 2 then shot and stoned it (or subdued it) I would say that diver 2 has full rights (including tourny points) to the fish.

[biggsy]

I don't think there would be any question behind that one. If the fish completely shook the shaft and diver 2 then shot and stoned it (or subdued it) I would say that diver 2 has full rights (including tourny points) to the fish. That's the way I would feel too.

[jfjf]

I don't think there would be any question behind that one. If the fish completely shook the shaft and diver 2 then shot and stoned it (or subdued it) I would say that diver 2 has full rights (including tourny points) to the fish.

I disagree, since I consider that the first shaft placement (which often causes a fish to hole up) should be considered "assistance", even though it is unintentional that the first shaft is shaken. But if that is the official interpretation of the rules, then I have no problem.

So for clarity, if two guys are freeshafting, they can hunt as a team, as long as the freeshaft falls out of a fish from the first guy, then the other team member can chase the fish down and land it. Also, if the fish runs away with a shaft that does not fall out, can the other diver shoot and recover the fish as his own, or does the shaft need to fall out to make a difference?

[FishDie]

I disagree, since I consider that the first shaft placement (which often causes a fish to hole up) should be considered "assistance", even though it is unintentional that the first shaft is shaken. But if that is the official interpretation of the rules, then I have no problem.

So for clarity, if two guys are freeshafting, they can hunt as a team, as long as the freeshaft falls out of a fish from the first guy, then the other team member can chase the fish down and land it. Also, if the fish runs away with a shaft that does not fall out, can the other diver shoot and recover the fish as his own, or does the shaft need to fall out to make a difference?

I think you're starting to split hairs on the "no assistance" rule(s) with the above. I doubt any team would think that hunting in the above style would be very effective for a tournament, commercial, or recreational shooting. I would hope that the second diver would shoot and recover the fish. Whether or not he claims it as his own would be decided on the boat and I'm POSITIVE that the details would never be disclosed to any weigh master. There are some things you just can't control or put a rule on unless you place an observer on every participating boat.

[biggsy]

I think you're starting to split hairs on the "no assistance" rule(s) with the above. I doubt any team would think that hunting in the above style would be very effective for a tournament, commercial, or recreational shooting. I would hope that the second diver would shoot and recover the fish. Whether or not he claims it as his own would be decided on the boat and I'm POSITIVE that the details would never be disclosed to any weigh master. There are some things you just can't control or put a rule on unless you place an observer on every participating boat. If we have to outline and explain every rule citing every single example that may or may not happen, by the time people print out the rules they would have run through a ream of paper and a package of ink.

The spirit of the rule is to take down the fish on your own without any assistance. Bryan explains it pretty well if the fish has been shot once before.

This is an individual tournament so take down the fish on your own, no teaming up on fish. If a diver recovers a fish that eluded the first diver, I would not consider that being a team effort. A team effort would be you fighting an AJ and your teammate puts another shaft in him while you are fighting him or even helps you subdue the fish underwater by dispatching or braining the fish.

I am not about to interrogate each diver as he winds his way through the weigh-in line.

[jfjf]

If we have to outline and explain every rule citing every single example that may or may not happen, by the time people print out the rules they would have run through a ream of paper and a package of ink.

The spirit of the rule is to take down the fish on your own without any assistance. Bryan explains it pretty well if the fish has been shot once before.

This is an individual tournament so take down the fish on your own, no teaming up on fish. If a diver recovers a fish that eluded the first diver, I would not consider that being a team effort. A team effort would be you fighting an AJ and your teammate puts another shaft in him while you are fighting him or even helps you subdue the fish underwater by dispatching or braining the fish.

I am not about to interrogate each diver as he winds his way through the weigh-in line.

Sounds good to me. :thumps::thumps::thumps:

[Johnoly]

http://www.johnoly.com/gallery/albums/TempTopside/saltwater_snookfat1.sized.jpg

[headhunter561]

http://www.johnoly.com/gallery/albums/TempTopside/saltwater_snookfat1.sized.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

[biggsy]

http://www.johnoly.com/gallery/albums/TempTopside/saltwater_snookfat1.sized.jpg Yeah, no machine guns are allowed either. :D

[mjphawk]

It appears it might not be a bad idea to reword that paragraph as it's not really clear.

Just as a matter for consideration concerning the use of a lift bag. South East Florida this is the way everyone hunts and I think it is consistent with the "open" style tournament to allow this as an unassisted method of harvest. We lift bag fish because of our friendly shark population and is actually much more of a safety measure than convenience. We still have to get our hands on the fish and string him up so I would consider that the fish was subdued before the lift bag could be deployed; thus, no assistance would be granted by the boat by picking up the fish. Also, while not my style of hunting, those individuals performing deep deco drops for their hunting also would typically lift their fish as a safety measure.

[biggsy]

Just as a matter for consideration concerning the use of a lift bag. South East Florida this is the way everyone hunts and I think it is consistent with the "open" style tournament to allow this as an unassisted method of harvest. We lift bag fish because of our friendly shark population and is actually much more of a safety measure than convenience. We still have to get our hands on the fish and string him up so I would consider that the fish was subdued before the lift bag could be deployed; thus, no assistance would be granted by the boat by picking up the fish. Also, while not my style of hunting, those individuals performing deep deco drops for their hunting also would typically lift their fish as a safety measure. I don't see us banning the use of lift bags since I know it is an acceptable and safe practice on the East Coast.

It's just more of a clarification on what is deemed assistance and what isn't.

[dive4bugz]

HOLY CRAP, MR WEIGHMASTER... NO MACHINE GUNS?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Houston, we have a problem...:-)

[Tyler Durden]

I don't think there would be any question behind that one. If the fish completely shook the shaft and diver 2 then shot and stoned it (or subdued it) I would say that diver 2 has full rights (including tourny points) to the fish.

I think tournaments should allow this, as it would be a reward to anyone recovering an injured fish regardless of who shot it. It places more probability that lost fish will be recovered. The personal conflicts would have to be worked out, but whatever. If its one thing this sport does not need, its people complaining on a public forum that they lost fish during a tournament. This would be one way to help minimize that. Just my thoughts.

[herefishyfishy]

Hi There, I posted your info our website (currently being redesigned.... www.longfins.net). Hope you get a good turnout!

[BlueWaterHunter]

Can someone please tell me the last day to register without costing more or having to attend the Captains meeting? Thanks.

[scubajobert]

Can someone please tell me the last day to register without costing more or having to attend the Captains meeting? Thanks.

may 10th was the early entry fee. not sure about the captains meeting if it's mandatory.

[biggsy]

may 10th was the early entry fee. not sure about the captains meeting if it's mandatory. You don't have to attend the Captain's Mtg, but it is the last chance you have to register for the tournament. If you are not registered then, you don't shoot in the tournament.

john

[BlueWaterHunter]

You don't have to attend the Captain's Mtg, but it is the last chance you have to register for the tournament. If you are not registered then, you don't shoot in the tournament.

john

The Captains meeting is the "last chance" to register?

[biggsy]

The Captains meeting is the "last chance" to register?

Correct, or you can register online at this link.

SBO Online Registration (http://www.spearwars.ambulanceproductions.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=60)