What is you opinion on carrying a Bang Tip or Bang Stick??

[mokaction]

About 3 years ago I was diving Santa Cruz and didn't know that there was a shark tournament going on the same time.

As I look over to my right I saw a nice 18 foot mako swimming right next to me. I think I have told this story a couple of times.

That sharked checked me out for about 5 mins. I was scared shitless, but continued to swim with it rather then swim away.

I think the shark was just courious of me. If I had a bang stick I would have let it have it and won the tournament if i was signed up.. LOL..

Over all I made it through that experiance.

I have my friend ernie, ever since I known him he has carried bang tip. He has had some really bad experiances in Hawaii with tigers.

As I keep hearing about GWS sightings I think about carrying one.

What is your guys opinion??

Larry

[ralphthehalibut]

Would a bang stick stop an 18 (you sure it was mako and not a white?!?!) foot mako, or just piss it off?

Te reason I wouldn't bother with one is that I don't think that you'd even have time to get it ready, let alone use it in the instances where you'd need it here (most likely being a blindspot charge from fluffy). The shark you swam with was just curious, and that's why you just swam with it instead of being eaten by it. IT made that decision, not you. If it was in hunt mode, I doubt you'd of ever even seen it. Something to think about.

The reality of it is that even if you did get it ready in time, I doubt a bangstick would slow down a 3000# pointer in mid charge.

The concept works great in open,blue water where you'd have time to see fluffy coming and get ready, but how often do you get that?

[AquaHunter]

I would very much rather have a 2 bang tips strapped on my weight belt. The only problem is I'm not sure if the Mori slip tip adaptor is suited for it. I had been lucky enough to not have a pointer charging and bite at me when I'm not looking. I know a guy who shot a big mako in the gill area that stopped it pretty good, perhap a bang tip hitting the gill area would work?

[Ron S]

Personally, if I could find a decent ppd that would fit my RA7mm shafts, I'd carry it. I dive in NorCal, where the vis is poor, the sharks are big, and the attacks are fast and there's no advanced warning, so the chances of a ppd actually being effective are probably well under 1%. But it would still be just that little bitty security blanket, kinda like pretending that sharks won't attack me if I'm in the kelp, that would make me relax a bit more and improve my bottom time.
Besides, if there ever was an incident where I could have saved myself with a ppd and didn't have one, I don't really want to die pissed off at myself...
Ron.

[rojodiablo]

I agree with Dave. There is no comparison with a tiger or a mass of bullsharks vs a GWS attack. The tigers I have seen (2) both were happy to swim right in and look at me. One was small, 7ft long, and not a serious threat. The other one?? That guy was sizing me up for dinner. There is nothing I could have done to hurt that fish with a 9/32 shaft. A direct hit in the gills might have, but I will bet that the gill structure would stop the shaft before it penetrated vital organs. So there, maybe a bangstick would stop the fish, and I could escape.GWS work in dirty water, and usually we are busy diving rather than looking for them. It's a whole different ballgame. GWS tend to attack fast, hit you first, then come back and see how well they did on you. A tiger will roll in, size you up, then just keep coming after you tell him no. You can't defend yourself from a blindside attack; therefore a bangstick, powerhead is useless in GWS waters.

[Wind_in_his_hair]

It might save your dive partners life.

[Nate Baker]

If you're diving Southern California, I'll bet the odds that a bang stick will save you are lower than they are of you (or one of your buddies) being seriously injured by the bang stick.

[So-Cal Spearo]

The largest reported mako ever is around 13'...Either you saw a GWS or have a hard time judging size underwater. Bang sticks are overkill for CA diving.

[Icarus Pacific]

2x with Tomol

[Mike Morgan]

Larry - He was just trying to figure out how he was going to fit you in his mouth :p

[Turtleshagga]

[QUOTE=Ron S;975412]Personally, if I could find a decent ppd that would fit my RA7mm shafts, I'd carry it. QUOTE]

Ron,

PM sent.

[Chris Oak]

IMO if the taxman wants you, you aren't ever going to see him coming before you are hit and even if you did you wouldn't have time to react.

[Chainsaw]

If your diving Guadalupe Island I recommend it. Here, why?

[mokaction]

You know I have seen a 44 bang stick rip right throught a 15 foot tiger.. I almost cut it right in half.. I don't think I would piss him off. I think I would blow a hole right through it.

Dave, Have you ever used a bang stick?? You It is not the round that mess up the fish, but the gases from the round..

Larry

[mokaction]

The largest reported mako ever is around 13'...Either you saw a GWS or have a hard time judging size underwater. Bang sticks are overkill for CA diving.

Austin, Still that is a big shark. Scared the living carp out of me.. ;)

Larry

[MACKFISH]

If you're diving Southern California, I'll bet the odds that a bang stick will save you are lower than they are of you (or one of your buddies) being seriously injured by the bang stick.

I know a guy who blew off most his fingers with one.I am saying just shoot the shark if you are threatened.A shark with a wounded eye is fu#$ed.:eek:if you miss you are fu#$ed.

['o Cino]

Hey Larry,

I figure the chances of using the PPD as intended, is about the same as ending up on some Seakittens menu.

I'd consider carrying a PPD if it could punch a sufficent hole in a speeding hull to sink the A-hole.

[Bob Ballew]

a bangstick in open water is a good idea BUT......often they malfunction due to the primer in the cartridge getting damp....big surprise when you nail that big grinning face and he keeps smiling at you....you have to paint over the primer cap with fingernail polish or an epoxy sealant to keep it watertight....there is one that slips over your slip tip for quick action, but, it is possible a tri tip could rip the primer open without it going off...too much myth out there....most divers see the shark just before it attacks....survive the first rush and you very well may be home free....guys who have free dove with them on purpose say: maintain eye contact....don't swim fast to get away or it may very welll trigger an attack, as this is what weaker prey does and they know it...in fact, standing your ground (scary as hell to do) may be the best defense....it may throw them off and put them on the defensive in case you are a threat to them...Dottie Frazier got trapped between an 18'er and the boat...she held up her lobsters in front of her and swam by the shark while it was hanging there looking her over...that action may well have confused the shark and gave her time to be proactive...in my case, I forced myself to swim slowly but steadily toward the kelp...the 15 1/2' gw followed me up and actually broke the surface but didn't try to chase into the kelp..I think that had I panicked and swam fast, it would have triggered a rush type attack...just my input on the matter...but, I don't go into bluewater with anything less than a 3/8" shaft rigged heavy duty.....when a big blue came straight up for me, I charged downward and met him headon about 10' down...this gave me more mobility than him catching me on the surface....I nailed him at point blank range with the shaft still clearing the muzzle as it penetrated his head....when dealing with big sharks, don't be a porkchop, be a wolf.....(o.k. it sounds good anyway....:)

[mokaction]

BOB, That is why I ddn't bolt.. Also I was so scare that I just kind of froze.. ;)

[Chainsaw]

Ask Harry Ingram how much good a bang stick would have done him when he was attacked by a great white.
You can read the story in Terry Maas's book.
I am sure he will tell you it would do f**k all.

[Bob Ballew]

Had Harry not taken action, the shark would have had him irregardless....he had a second or two of warning....he shot the shark in the face...that aggressive act saved his life when the speargun handle jammed under his armpit and lifted him onto the shark's back...a working powerhead might have blown off it's nose and ended the attack, so, speculation is just that....sheer speculation....now, in his situation there wasn't time to pull out a powerhead and install it..but, when one is looking you over, it just might make a big difference when it finally makes a decision....the real problem is hitting a fast moving white as it comes toward you...it takes intense concentration, good reflexes and damn good aim....anyway, after watching the Wild special with free divers deliberately swimming with great whites, only a girly-man would be afraid of sharks....:)

[lobzila]

Are there any legal issues with carrying a bang stick? Cali has some screwy laws sometimes.

[Bob Ballew]

no problem unless you mistake your partner for a great white....although I recommend carrying the ammo separate from the powerhead while in local waters...c.g. or overzealous Sheriff's might consider it to be carrying a loaded weapon within city limits...

[grummy]

Bang sticks do what they are intended to do, blow big holes in soft tissue (this means you if handled improperly). The bullet dose only part of the damage, the expanding gas from the power will rip huge chunks of flesh out. The question is can you perceive the threat, find the bang device, prepare it for use (arm it or put it on the end of your spear) and fire it before the shark gets you? I don’t know how long it takes to complete all of these steps but if you can complete them before the shark gets to you, don’t shoot because he is just checking you out. If he had an eye on you for diner, you would be bit. Most shark bites are not initially fatal (Randy Fry would be the exception) so bleeding control devices and good first aid would be a better use of your money. I have fired a gun under water and trust me the reaction from a short barrel pressed against the target will send the device back at you pretty hard. Not the same as the energy coming out the other end but still potentially fatal. If you chose to carry a bang stick device, do so with extreme, extreme caution. My opinion No!

[Kale]

Larry,
My closest dive buddy always carries one. I would be more afraid of having the tip on my belt than I am of a shark. I'm more afraid of a crazy sealion or elephant seal than a shark. There have been times when I seriously felt my safety or my buddy's safety was in danger from aggressive pinnepeds, and I would have used a powerhead if I had one . I have never seen a lethal sized shark, but I do on occasion have my 6th sense bothering me. I just move to a kelpier and/or cleaner spot to dive comfortably. If I get killed by a shark in CA, I'm sure a powerhead would never save me. I have come to peace with the risk involved in diving, and try to listen to my spidey senses. I would never carry a powerhead.
Kale

[Bob Ballew]

except, sea lions are not fatal....they like to blow bubbles at you , knash their teeth at you like a bulldog and nip at your fins to scare you...and, it usually works on most divers...myself, I punch them on the nose if they get too aggressive and they back off..I have had some real punching matches with sea lions trying to yank my yellowtail catches away from me....managed to get 4 of 5 of my fish back in this manner...most powerheads have a safety pin thru them which prevents detonation until you pull out the pin like arming a grenade...don't know how anyone could blow off their fingers unless it was a faulty design/setup or extreme carelessness.....good to see everyone has an interesting opinion on this subject....of course, all opinions are SUBJECT to change once you have your first encounter with a beeg one....:)

[ROBERTO REYES]

If you're diving Southern California, I'll bet the odds that a bang stick will save you are lower than they are of you (or one of your buddies) being seriously injured by the bang stick.

Make that anywere in the world.

[deckhandmike]

Bob, you didn'y see the situation Kale and I had with a elephant seal. In our area sea lions and elephant seals are extremely aggresive. I think a ppd is a good thing to have and a bangstick a bad one. The main problem with a ppd is going to be the sliptip I think.

[metelin]

why would a shark want to bite your ugly ass?

steve

[butch]

Carry a bang stick or PPD to attach to your speartip.

Whether it saves you or not is irrelevant. The key is to have every resource available. I want to have all options available.

It's better to try to kill and die, than to never tried at all.

Seriously. Would the guy in Solana been better off with a PPD - no. Would we be more likely to see the taxman if we are hunting prey ourselves -probably.

Go down packin!:cowboy:

[Bob Ballew]

cowards serve a useful purpose...they leave a brown trail the rest of us can hide in....another Ballew platitude...

[Polystigma]

What about using a slip-on powerhead to hunt WSB?

It would be the most ecologically friendly way.
The fish cannot tear off and swim away, especially when its head is missing.

".44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off"

[aaron proffitt]

".44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off"

Had the .454 Casull been invented ,yet, when Dirty Harry made that statement ?

[Polystigma]

Or the 500 Smith and Wesson or how about one of those revolvers that shoot .45-70?:eek:


BTW looks like .454 Casull was made in 1959, and Dirty Harry in 1971.

So guess he was wrong, but sounds so bad ass when he says it.

[aaron proffitt]

Yeah it does sound bad ass ... & yeah , their are a couple that make the .44 look puny. Relatively, speaking.

[Polystigma]

So this brings me to a new direction.

If you were to carry a Powerhead in California, what caliber would be best?

I have two slip-on PH. One is .223rem, and the other is .30-06.

What would you guys carry, and why?

[mokaction]

why would a shark want to bite your ugly ass?

steve

You just never know. I have a lot of fat to weight ratio.. I would be taste. Like Pork Chops.. LOL..

Larry

[series8217]

Get one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_Underwater_Assault_Rifle
Block off the magazine to 10 rounds and put a bullet button on it so it's Cali-legal.

That'll show the taxman who's at the top of the food chain.

[NED]

Come on everyone just man up and carry a Glock. That is what Steve Zissou does.

Now what about my dynamite?

[tommy7]

Larry,

if you knew what we know, you would not be diving around those two wash rocks anymore :eek:

[mokaction]

Larry,

if you knew what we know, you would not be diving around those two wash rocks anymore :eek:

LOL.. Ya, I know. I am cool with it.. I was just getting peoples opinion for laughs.. I know one day I will be a big pork chop.. LOL..

[apneanaut]

My sense is that a powerhead in the hands of an experienced, knowledgeable, level-headed diver would be a safety benefit. My sense is also that the vast majority of divers do not fall into this category. I don't trust myself with one.

Great whites are ambush predators, so I think the majority of the time your powerhead wouldn't be much help here in California.

Was the guy who was rushed by that huge mako at the Coronado's using a powerhead when he killed the shark?

EDIT: Sounds like no http://www.geoprobesystems.com/literature/features/coreprobeshark.htm

[Tara]

Great White video/footage I took... (http://www.facebook.com/v/77574193193) :thumps:

3:09 whitey checking me out and giving the "eye"
3:33 a shark charging the cage behind me while taking video, you see his gills and side body scrape up against the cage...thought the cage would break off he hit it so hard.


Too bad I didn't have my speargun, saw some NICE tuna.

[Ron S]

Now that's some very cool footage! Someday I wanna do that. Thanks for posting!
Ron.

[mokaction]

Great White video/footage I took... (http://www.facebook.com/v/77574193193) :thumps:

3:09 whitey checking me out and giving the "eye"
3:33 a shark charging the cage behind me while taking video, you see his gills and side body scrape up against the cage...thought the cage would break off he hit it so hard.


Too bad I didn't have my speargun, saw some NICE tuna.

You know I have only seen a 6 to 10 footer off of the Ventura Break wall, but I know that Rob Flint and Tommy 7 has seen bigger ones there..

Yesterday at the Break wall I saw about 3 seals with big chunks out of them. I kept freaking out Joe with my comment of the man in his grey suit.. ;) One day as a boy that crys wolf will get his day.

I hope the man likes pork chops.. LOL.

Larry

[Tara]

You know I have only seen a 6 to 10 footer off of the Ventura Break wall, but I know that Rob Flint and Tommy 7 has seen bigger ones there..

Yesterday at the Break wall I saw about 3 seals with big chunks out of them. I kept freaking out Joe with my comment of the man in his grey suit.. ;) One day as a boy that crys wolf will get his day.

I hope the man likes pork chops.. LOL.

Larry

Not surprised...
Now that's one game I wouldn't want to be playing against Whitey..hehe ;)
The sharks in my video were 16, 17, 18 ft'ers...one female came in at 20ft...
it was pretty surreal, at one point during twilight...SLAYER is blaring underwater and next thing I knew there were 5, 6, then 7 that I could count surrounding us...:eek:

[sharkfood99]

I've been in a cage diving at the Farallon's with white sharks. There is no f'ing way you'd get that tip ready before that shark had a piece of you. Imagine an 18 footer coming full tilt from the depths up at you... you're not even going to see it coming. It MIGHT save you from being eaten completely, IF you're not totally useless from the first attack.

Now like others said, if I were in the carribean hunting and there were some tigers or other aggressive sharks I might reconsider.

[mokaction]

I've been in a cage diving at the Farallon's with white sharks. There is no f'ing way you'd get that tip ready before that shark had a piece of you. Imagine an 18 footer coming full tilt from the depths up at you... you're not even going to see it coming. It MIGHT save you from being eaten completely, IF you're not totally useless from the first attack.

Now like others said, if I were in the carribean hunting and there were some tigers or other aggressive sharks I might reconsider.



LOL. Yes, I have imaged in the water... LOL.. ;) Suck when you also have proof that there is GWS around with died seals floating around you while diving.. LOL..

[MACKFISH]

Larry you have got the right attitude.:beer::beer::D

[mokaction]

Larry you have got the right attitude.:beer::beer::D

LOL.. Ya, I love it.. My daughter know she, I have one hell of a life insurance policy on me.. Also when you get a life insurance policy, make sure if covers diving and water activities.

you have to read the find print.

Larry

[patrick]

forget the sharks, imagine all the other fun stuff you can do with one of these!!

[ralphthehalibut]

Ask Harry Ingram how much good a bang stick would have done him when he was attacked by a great white.
You can read the story in Terry Maas's book.
I am sure he will tell you it would do f**k all.


That's the story I based my assertion on that the bangstick wouldn't do much on a 3000# pointer in mid charge.

We gotta remember, theses things are going so fast when they charge they get totally clear of the water:eek:

[mokaction]

forget the sharks, imagine all the other fun stuff you can do with one of these!!

try using it on a rock.. LOL..

[bob3fish]

I carry a PPD. It give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I have shot maybe 10 sharks that were after my fish. On about 5 of the shots the PPD didn't fire due to a glancing hit or a dud. On those occasions the sharks became a little more wary and I was able to safely ascend. When it does go off I have never had any more trouble with the shark, or on a couple of occasions even his companions. I'm diving in the northern GOM. Looks like most posts are from CA. Maybe shark behavior is different there.

[wyomingguide]

Make that anywere in the world.

:cool: I disagree wholeheartedly. It's no different than carrying a loaded handgun for self defense. Maintain your situational awareness and keep control of your weapon. You carry a loaded speargun with you when hunting right? Have you ever speared one of your Buddy's? Probably not. Seems like anytime a bullet or any part of a firearm is involved, people freak out and I just don't understand why. As far as how effective it would be against a big Whitey, I have no clue. Any handgun is marginal at best as a man stopper let alone a 3000 lb fish but you can bet your bisquits I'd have one with me if I was spearin over there. When the Goblins come, I'm gonna be ready wether in the water or on Terra Firma.
Later,
Chris

[RLdiver]

It's my understanding that there is two versions:
Powerheads useing the shaft as the firing pin which are one time use, primed once you put it on your shaft.... as far as I'm concerned safe. You never point your gun at a person anyway and wouldn't be just swimming around with one on your shaft.
Bangsticks that are primed once you put a bullet into it. I've heard of people blowing holes in their feet dropping these on the deck of their boat. I don't reccommend those.

I always carry powerheads... bluewater/Reef and kelp. I've never personally had to use one but have seen my partner plug a 17ft tiger with one. It was very effective..big headache for her and she swam away. I agree with everyone saying that if a shark wants you it's going to eat you and you wont see it coming. But, I'd hate to have the need/time to load one and not have it. I love sharks and hope that I never have to kill one.

PM me If anyone wants to make their own powerheads I took pictures of the process and could fill in the blanks with some info.

Riley

[jupiterlocal]

Who here has actually had to use a powerhead to defend themselves? I have a .223 slip on but rarely use it. If you do get injured with one of these devices some serious safety rules have been ignored. They do not arbitrarilly go off when they want to and hurt people. The best safety is the one between your ears.

[Bill McIntyre]

If you're diving Southern California, I'll bet the odds that a bang stick will save you are lower than they are of you (or one of your buddies) being seriously injured by the bang stick.

Me too. In Florida I might carry one, but not here.

[IAGUY]

being from Iowa I dont here much about the man in the grey suit, maby cases on the news about a surfer or something, But with all the talk and concern I hear from you cali guys about it, how many actual attacks on free divers or spearos have taken place over the years? is it very rare like ive been told. or does it happen more than one thinks? And with regaurds to a bang tip or stick, If I knew the shark was there I think Id rather keep my focus on him and the surrounding area rather than panicly fumbling around trying to load a cartridge.

[Everdai]

I know this is an old topic but i just read it and was wondering about another option to carry a powerhead.

Buy one of those tiny POS JBL's that are like $70 at Sport Chalet, I think the whole gun is about 12" long. Always attach a powerhead before you get in the water (or just keep it on there but i don't know about the laws behind doing so) and strap the thing to your calf.
Assuming you got one of those powerheads with a pull-pin it should be perfectly safe, and all you would have to do is grab the thing, pull back a weenie little band and pull the pin.

Sure it costs more money but if you're diving somewhere that you would need a powerhead at all it's worth $70 and I'd say this setup would work better (quicker) than the other options I've seen so far.

I guess it really doesn't matter where you're diving, if diving with a powerhead in lakes makes you feel safer and you're level-headed enough then go for it.

[headshot]

GWS are protected in California waters.

[Everdai]

I definitely try to always stay within the regs as I know they are there for a reason, and even if I didn't know of or agree with a reason it still just makes all spearos look bad when one starts doing the wrong thing. I also seriously doubt that I will ever be in a life or death situation with a shark, and honestly would love to see them so long as it isn't a monster taxman (or monster anything really) and I don't carry any type of "anti-shark" equipment.

I would also put a lot of money down saying that most sharks that are killed or injured by powersticks/any type of ppd would not have harmed the diver in the first place. I saw someone post on SB a comment about how big a spearo looks in the water with fins and an extended speargun, and I think it would take a VERY large and very bold shark to actually hunt a levelheaded spearo.

That being said, all the regs will immediately go out the window if I ever do meet that very big, very bold shark.

[naturalbornkila]

Get one of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_Underwater_Assault_Rifle


Your facts are a little out of date
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-DT_Underwater_Assault_Rifle
:thumps:

[Nate Baker]

:cool: I disagree wholeheartedly. It's no different than carrying a loaded handgun for self defense. Maintain your situational awareness and keep control of your weapon.

Not a great analogy. When you're carrying a handgun for self defense you're standing on the ground, an environment humans are made for. You're not sloshing around trying to cover your ass from something that can come from anywhere. And, in your example you're only carrying one weapon. Two loaded weapons (speargun and bang stick or tip) in an environment ill suited for humans is a recipe for trouble.

Even in a boat, with all the motion, all the gear and the confined space.... Sure, you're not likely to have a problem, but (and I can only speak for California) the odds that you'll need it, and further, that you'll get a chance to deploy it effectively when you do need it are exceedingly remote.

You carry a loaded speargun with you when hunting right? Have you ever speared one of your Buddy's? Probably not.

No, but that's a single long stick. Plus, it gets unloaded before coming aboard. This is the fundamental challenge with firearms in general (I'm not talking about gun control, so let's not start that). The projectile and the propellant come combined. With a speargun, you can keep the shaft in with no propellant.