KLO Updated Rules and Discussion

[biggsy]

Due to recent regulatory changes with Grouper and Amberjack we have had to change the rules of the upcoming Key Largo Open on November 7.

Please note some of the key rule changes and clarifications below:

1. Only (1) gag or black grouper can be turned in. Grouper must be 24" min. This rule change was implemented for the new grouper rules implemented in Atlantic Federal Waters. Grouper Bulletin (http://www.safmc.net/Portals/6/Library/FMP/SnapGroup/FB09-039%20Am%2016%20Final%20Rule.pdf)

2. No Greater Amberjack can be turned in. This rule change was implemented for the new Greater Amberjack closure implemented in Gulf Federal Waters. All other jacks, cobia or barracuda may be turned in.

3. Barracuda can now be turned in.

4. There is a new category for a "Wild Card Fish". You may turn in any fish that fits into any of the allowable species for the tournament. Grouper, Snapper, Hog, Flounder, Triggerfish, Sheepshead, Barracuda, Cobia and any other Jack other than Amberjack. You may not turn in a second gag or black.

5. The maximum number of fish that a contestant can potentially enter is nine (9) including the wild card fish.

Please familiarize yourself with all of the minimum size requirements. They may vary from your local regulations.

Note: fish measurement is measured to fork or overall as required by the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission no matter where the fish was harvested. Jacks, Cobia,Triggerfish and Hogfish are measured to the fork.

Note: If there is any question as to size or bag limits of an unlisted species, the latest Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission regulations will be used.

Please see a copy of the new rules attached to this post.

We will assess all of the new regulations for the series next season so we don't know how many fish will be turned in or even what species. At the rate things are changing, we might be lucky to shoot grunts.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to post them to this thread.

[SpearMax]

Thanks John for posting this up. These are VERY important changes to the Key Largo Open tournament rules. I will post an announcement in every Florida forum. Tony

[headhunter561]

Nice job making the best of the crappy hand our government has dealt us!

a few suggestions for next season, IMHO:

1) Make cobia its own category. Most of us consider them much more of a quality fish that the others it is grouped with.

2) Add Kingfish to the wild card fish category, since they are prevalent in the gulf and the east coast (this could be done for the upcoming KLO too)

3) This last one is a long shot, since they aren't technically speared, but what about allowing one lobster to be weighed? There are lobster in the gulf as well as the east coast. They aren't as common in the gulf but we dont get monster hogs and stuff.

[scubajobert]

Nice job making the best of the crappy hand our government has dealt us!

a few suggestions for next season, IMHO:

1) Make cobia its own category. Most of us consider them much more of a quality fish that the others it is grouped with.

2) Add Kingfish to the wild card fish category, since they are prevalent in the gulf and the east coast (this could be done for the upcoming KLO too)

3) This last one is a long shot, since they aren't technically speared, but what about allowing one lobster to be weighed? There are lobster in the gulf as well as the east coast. They aren't as common in the gulf but we dont get monster hogs and stuff.

:stupid::D:thumps:

[keezdiver]

making cobia their own category puts those of us that don't have them often at a major disadvantage. i've got over 2500 dives in the keys...never seen a cobia...NEVER.

the barracuda and AJ thing is gonna make it interesting!!!

[SpearMax]

making cobia their own category puts those of us that don't have them often at a major disadvantage. i've got over 2500 dives in the keys...never seen a cobia...NEVER.

the barracuda and AJ thing is gonna make it interesting!!!

Hmm....I think cobia should stay in the jack category Rob due to the regionality reason Jeff is stating. Dealing with closures is tricky, but I must say that the wild card fish idea that Biggsy came up with is really creative. Adding cuda also levels the playing field for most areas. These changes will certainly make the game more interesting. ;) :cool:

[ny_er]

making cobia their own category puts those of us that don't have them often at a major disadvantage. i've got over 2500 dives in the keys...never seen a cobia...NEVER.


couldn't you just dive on the gulf side?

[PropMan]

:stupid::D:thumps:

Jobert is licking his chops , Lobster ,oh ja , Iam in,lol

[biggsy]

Keep dreamin' boys, it's not going to happen for this tournament.

It might be something to consider as a wild card entry for future PBOs or KLOs.

[headhunter561]

OK, worth a shot. I still dont see why kings arent included...

On another note, the way I am reading the rules, you could weigh a red or scamp for your grouper, and a gag or black as the wild card fish. Is this correct?

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g94/RMurphy561/rules.jpg

[biggsy]

OK, worth a shot. I still dont see why kings arent included...

On another note, the way I am reading the rules, you could weigh a red or scamp for your grouper, and a gag or black as the wild card fish. Is this correct?

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g94/RMurphy561/rules.jpg

We have tossed around the idea of other pelagics, we just haven't implemented anything as of yet. This is the first time the tournament is allowing barracuda.

Correct, however the largest grouper weighed will go into your grouper category. The smaller grouper will fit into the wild card spot, it just can't be a second black or gag.

There won't be a separate trophy for the wild card fish, that's why the larger fish will go under it's own category (grouper, snapper, etc.)

[headhunter561]

Cool, thank you for the clarification John. I appreciate all your hard work and dedication, I know it can be a thankless job.

[PropMan]

Nice job making the best of the crappy hand our government has dealt us!

a few suggestions for next season, IMHO:

1) Make cobia its own category. Most of us consider them much more of a quality fish that the others it is grouped with.

2) Add Kingfish to the wild card fish category, since they are prevalent in the gulf and the east coast (this could be done for the upcoming KLO too)

3) This last one is a long shot, since they aren't technically speared, but what about allowing one lobster to be weighed? There are lobster in the gulf as well as the east coast. They aren't as common in the gulf but we dont get monster hogs and stuff.

I have A SUGGESTION !!!!!!!

To make things some what fair ,how about adding Margates into the HogFish
and Flounder catagory.The west coast guys can get the monster hogs ,
so we should be able to get monster Margates.
This seems to be fair ,No AJ's for them and Margates for us .
Now we have an even playing field.
Just my 2 cents

[SpearRiffe]

I'm not totally understanding the wild card fish category. Do you have to enter a specific fish? Or do you just weigh all your fish in and get lucky by having the biggest fish species chosen for the wild card? thanks a lot, Dane

[biggsy]

I'm not totally understanding the wild card fish category. Do you have to enter a specific fish? Or do you just weigh all your fish in and get lucky by having the biggest fish species chosen for the wild card? thanks a lot, Dane You can enter any fish in the wild card fish category.

Here are a couple of examples:

If you shoot eight fish (1) grouper, (2) snapper, (2) hogfish or flounder, (2) sheepshead or trigger, (1) cobia, jack or barracuda, you can then shoot another fish for the wild card fish category...and it could be any of the above, your choice for a total of (9) fish.

You could shoot (2) hogfish and your wild card fish could be a 3rd hogfish.

You could shoot (1) grouper and your wild card fish could be a 2nd grouper as long as it isn't a second black or gag, only one of those are allowed to be weighed.

The wild card fish isn't just limited to these examples. In any instance the wild card fish works as an overflow category for all of the standard categories.

[biggsy]

I have A SUGGESTION !!!!!!!

To make things some what fair ,how about adding Margates into the HogFish
and Flounder catagory.The west coast guys can get the monster hogs ,
so we should be able to get monster Margates.
This seems to be fair ,No AJ's for them and Margates for us .
Now we have an even playing field.
Just my 2 cents So you don't think we have evened the playing field?

We've taken out Red Snapper because it's closed on the West Coast. We allowed Red Snapper for the PBO when it was an open season on both coasts.

We've only allowed one black or gag which is a restriction only on the Atlantic side.

We've eliminated AJ because it's closed on the West Coast and added in Barracuda and a wild card fish (your choice).

You are going to have to shoot in the Middle Grounds or North/South Carolina to get the monster hogs you talk about and anyone has the ability to shoot there.

The shooter leading the series has shot on both coasts. The rest of the top 10 is a mixture of both East (6) and West (3) Coasters. If anything, it's leaning in favor of the East Coast.

I don't think we have given either coast an advantage and even the mere hint of impropriety is insulting to those of us that have worked hard to keep this tournament fair no matter what coast you are shooting on.

[jfjf]

.....
I don't think we have given either coast an advantage and even the mere hint of impropriety is insulting to those of us that have worked hard to keep this tournament fair no matter what coast you are shooting on.

I agree. A lot of effort and discussion was directed at attempting to keep the tournament as "representative" as it ever was. I might never have been what averyone agrees is "fair", but the rules have always been designed to try to elimnate (or balance out) the advantage from one geographic area to another. The latest revisions were made with that in mind.

[scubajobert]

can i weigh Rick shield's in as my wild card..............

[Hat-Nasty]

The only thing that should be made clear is that no fish that would cause you to go over your daily bag limit on either coast shoudl be allowed to be entered as a wild-card.

Example: You may only have 1 warsaw grouper per vessel. Therefore no one person should be able to weigh in 2 warsaws, no shoudl any other team memeber be allowed to weigh in a warsaw. Cubera snapper is another, you can only have 2 cubera snapper over 30lbs per boat per day. Therefore you shoudl not allow more than 2 large cubera snapper per boat.

I'm sure there are more like this....just wondering if it was considered.

[SpearMax]

can i weigh Rick shield's in as my wild card..............

You will only get 20 points for that fish. ;) :D

[keezdiver]

theoretically you can go out and shoot 2 barracuda and THATS IT...and still have a good point total.

could help in case of bad weather.

[biggsy]

theoretically you can go out and shoot 2 barracuda and THATS IT...and still have a good point total.

could help in case of bad weather. Correct.

[biggsy]

The only thing that should be made clear is that no fish that would cause you to go over your daily bag limit on either coast shoudl be allowed to be entered as a wild-card.

Example: You may only have 1 warsaw grouper per vessel. Therefore no one person should be able to weigh in 2 warsaws, no shoudl any other team memeber be allowed to weigh in a warsaw. Cubera snapper is another, you can only have 2 cubera snapper over 30lbs per boat per day. Therefore you shoudl not allow more than 2 large cubera snapper per boat.

I'm sure there are more like this....just wondering if it was considered. This is an unwritten rule that we have and it's never came up. We may get 1 cubera per tournament and I think there has only been 2 or 3 warsaws ever weighed.

We use FWC rules whenever there is a rule question unless it's a stated size limit in the rules. I think I am going to add in a note in the rules clarifying that point.

Thanks!

[smilinmatt]

To make things some what fair ,how about adding Margates into the HogFish
and Flounder catagory.The west coast guys can get the monster hogs ,
so we should be able to get monster Margates.
This seems to be fair ,No AJ's for them and Margates for us .
Now we have an even playing field.


10# West coast hogfish = only available to someone going to the Middle Grounds (minimum 80 miles one-way) and even then there's no gaurantee.

10# East coast margate = a blind person wearing floaties, weilding a pointed stick could load a freighter full of them.

Hardly seems like it would level the playing field. ;)

[SpearRiffe]

Correct.

SICK!!!!!:D lol

[Gruper Reeper]

Excellent work on the revisions .. It was well thought out and will throw some points around especially with the wild card catigory. Should make the final showing really interesting. Only downfall is have to smell the ass nasty cudas thrown into the boat, but their worth the points.

[SpearRiffe]

Ya damn skippy they are! :D


Excellent work on the revisions .. It was well thought out and will throw some points around especially with the wild card catigory. Should make the final showing really interesting. Only downfall is have to smell the ass nasty cudas thrown into the boat, but their worth the points.

[Gradyman]

I like the revisions...

BUT...I have one question...Why do triggers need to be 14inches when the regs say 12 inches?

[SpearMax]

Excellent work on the revisions .. It was well thought out and will throw some points around especially with the wild card catigory. Should make the final showing really interesting. Only downfall is have to smell the ass nasty cudas thrown into the boat, but their worth the points.

We are going to donate the barracudas people do not want to Dr. Gruber and the lemon shark scientists. I think that will reflect well on us in the fishery scientific community.

[Gradyman]

...I have one question...Why do triggers need to be 14inches when the regs say 12 inches?

Are the regs I got in my South Atlantic Update newsletter misprinted?

[smilinmatt]

Triggerfish have to be 14" on the Gulf side now. I don't think they changed them on the Atlantic.

[Gradyman]

Triggerfish have to be 14" on the Gulf side now. I don't think they changed them on the Atlantic.

Thanks...Hope not to have to worry about that, but was curious.

[biggsy]

I like the revisions...

BUT...I have one question...Why do triggers need to be 14inches when the regs say 12 inches? 14" to the fork in Federal and State waters on the Gulf side.

Triggerfish have to be 14" on the Gulf side now. I don't think they changed them on the Atlantic. They have not changed them on the Atlantic side.

Once again we implemented this change to level the playing field, plus it would be impossible to confirm where each shooter shot their trigger so it simplifies the weigh-in line if we go with the more restrictive size limit. We did the same thing for every species that had a different size limit between the two coasts.

[biggsy]

It's getting closer! Captain's meeting is this Thursday. Tournament day is Saturday with the weigh-in Sunday. Hope to see everyone there.

[reefthief]

Any way you calculate it allowing cudas will give Capt Tony C of the Cracker an unfair advantage......
:thumps: John

[biggsy]

The postponement of the tournament will in no way affect the rules, other than the dates.

If any other regulations are changed, we will address those with the rules as required.