Interested In A Limited Goliath Grouper Harvest? Here's How We Get One.

[Dive4Blood]

A fellow dive club member just called me last week about an acquaintance he has with a very high ranking official in the FWC. In their conversations, this person has expressed the desire to get diver-based info on goliath grouper populations, and behavior around the state. He wants to take this info to form a springboard for a very possible limited harvest sometime in the near future.

I just got off the phone with this gentleman today, and although he declined that he be identified due to not wanting to get barraged with phone calls/emails, he is very interested in what we have to say. Ultimately, both he, and several other key personnel would like for a limited harvest along the lines of the alligator lottery to occur. A limited number of kill tags would be given out to those that apply, and for a fee would allow that fisherman to harvest a goliath. This is provided that the fisherman report the info regarding the catch, and surrender the filleted carcass for scientific study.

What he asking is for anecdotal info, photos, and video. Please reply on this thread in non-inflammatory manner, and provide your feedback. I am going to email him the link to this thread so that he, and his associates at the FWC may read, and see. They want to know:
*Where are you seeing them
*How many
*What size
*Their behaviors especially if they are aggressive
*What you have seen them eat
*If you have seen increase in their populations
*Anything else pertinent to determining whether a limited harvest can work.

Let's represent our spearfishing community, and flex our muscle in a constructive way. Thanks.

AJ Suarez

[Dive4Blood]

If anyone has pictures or video please provide them. We all know how many words a picture is worth.

[Denny]

AJ- This idea sure sounds farmiliar...Wait!! I know. It was my idea. :D And it is moving forward. Good to hear it from another perspective.
The Goliath harvest was discussed at the reef fish advisory panel meeting and also at the last Gulf Council Meeting.
The FRA is on it. Let's all put up some information here. When the time comes, I'll let you all know where to direct your emails and phone calls.
If you haven't joined the FRA, now is the time.
To review, the Fishing Rights Alliance is:
For moving the longlines out to 50 fathoms (at least)
For equal treatment of spearguns as fishing tackle
For the limited harvest of Goliath Grouper
Responsible for SAVING YOUR HOGFISH LIMITS
Against the EXTREME reduction of the bag limit for Red grouper due to its disproportionate impact on recreational anglers.

JOIN THE FRA TODAY!!!
Join the Fishing Rights Alliance (http://www.thefra.org)

[deepstops]

Originally posted by Dive4Blood
If anyone has pictures or video please provide them. We all know how many words a picture is worth.

AJ,

I'm headed to the Roatan Express and Fantastico wrecks this weekend. My camera won't go to 180 on the RE and but I'll get some pics for you on the Fantastico. The last time I dove it (last October), we had at the LEAST 50 GGs hanging around. Those things intimidate me more than sharks, especially the ones over 300 lbs.

[biggsy]

Brian, I was out there a couple of weeks ago and they are loaded on the deck of that ship. They are huge! They did not give us any problem, but we were mainly shooting on the other side of the ship where we did not see any goliaths. (Ship is on it's side).

[Dive4Blood]

Pretty f*cking pathethic!! All I read day in and day out on SB is people bitching, whining, and moaning about goliath grouper stealing their fish, attacking them, making their lives miserable, and how they need to be harvested. Then, when this thread gets posted at the behest of some high ranking officials in the law enforcement division of the FWC who proactively want to get info from divers to begin formulating a case for a limited harvest it only gets 100 views! In two days!! All the while the hot topic on SB is whether we'd look at Britney's goods if she were laying unconscious on an operating table.

Denny, I don't envy the work you do with the FRA with the apparent apathy going on here.

AJ Suarez

[RichT]

AJ,
Apathy in the diving community and the fishing community are why longliners are still coming in with 24 THOUSAND POUND grouper trips while you and I will soon be allowed only 2 red grouper per person per day.
Apathy is the reason we are only allowed one Amberjack per person per day.
Apathy may be the reason MPA’s are being shoved down our throats.
Apathy is the reason Goliath Grouper are on nearly every ledge and wreck in the Gulf of Mexico.
In fact, there are some VERY notable people on this very board who arent involved or are apathetic to the problems facing our sport. (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!)
Fortunately, not everybody chooses to turn away from the problems or say “someone else will take care of it”.
UN-fortunately there arent nearly enough of us.
If people would just realize that it doesn’t take that much effort to make a difference I think more people would get involved.
We have an organization looking out for us but how many of you have joined?!
It costs only 35.00 to make a difference!!! See WWW.THEFRA.ORG .
Now back to the subject.
Like I have said many times before, Goliath grouper are coming back in unprecedented numbers in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico.
They are being seen in places I have NEVER seen them before such as hard bottom areas and tiny little ledges.
They are being seen in ALL sizes which generally indicates healthy populations.
They are becoming more aggressive as they have learned that divers and fisherman can provide an easy food source.
My opinion as an experienced diver and observer is that they are disrupting the natural balance of the eco-system and there numbers need to be kept in check, much like the alligator population of Florida.
Just for the record, I do not dis-like Goliath Grouper and would never want to see them eliminated.
I think a 5-800 pound fish is one of the coolest things you can see underwater.
But, 20 5-800 pound fish inhabiting a small area is certainly not “cool”.

[Spearchucker]

I will make sure to make some mental notes while I am out tomorrow, and post here tomorrow night.

I could post up the obvious, there are a million of them on the pride and every other wreck, but I will have some very fresh, current observations tomorrow.

[Steel Shootin']

Originally posted by RichTaylor

In fact, there are some VERY notable people on this very board who arent involved or are apathetic to the problems facing our sport. (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!)

I don't know of anyone who is "VERY" notable on this board who is "apathetic" to the problems facing our sport. Instead of taking a blind stab at someone, call them out. Otherwise, it leaves people to guess who the high profile person is that doesn't care.

That is not to say I don't get your point. While I don't know of any apathetic people, I think some people stick their head in the dirt, hoping problems will go away. They need to be confronted and will not go away without the advocacy of a group like the FRA.

As to why I have not posted to this thread, I will say again that I think a plan of convincing regulatory agencies that goliath grouper are dangerous to spearfishermen gives them potential justification to restrict diving/spearfishing in some areas. This could be especially true if through junk science they find that GG have not recovered sufficiently, or do not pose a threat to the rest of the eco-system. They may become concerned that they are now exposed to liability when it is the spearfishermen themselves who argue: "These fish are dangerous!"

Consequently, I will not be posting stories of my own. Hopefully, that is not interpreted as apathy. Having said that, I will support the FRA in whatever strategy it takes with this, and as always encourgage everyone to get involved and become a member.

[RichT]

Scott, you have done more to promote and protect divers rights than most people could do in a lifetime. I have sent you a short list of notables who have not joined the FRA.
Instead of pointing fingers, I would rather more people just do the right thing without having to be kicked in the ass.
I dont need any more people pissed off at me.
Ill just ask everyone one simple question.
HAVE YOU JOINED THE FRA YET !!!

[Denny]

Originally posted by Scott
I don't know of anyone who is "VERY" notable on this board who is "apathetic" to the problems facing our sport. Instead of taking a blind stab at someone, call them out. Otherwise, it leaves people to guess who the high profile person is that doesn't care.

Here goes, Scott.
Rich's description of apathy is in reference to those who want the benefits of having a group fight a battle, without the individual being willing to stand up and be counted.
I, and the other FRA Directors and members are GRATEFUL for ALL the support we receive. When people purchase raffle tickets, they are helping with the costs involved in operating the FRA. Emails, phone calls and letters directed at regulatory officials are all expressions of support.
But when it comes time to actually JOIN the FRA, there is a boatload of apathy. I will not single out any one. That is not my style.
I WILL, however, share with you here some of my feelings:
There have been a few times when I wondered why the hell I am doing the FRA work; who really cares? When people can't or won't join the organization (is the cost too much? $35 is less than a new shaft!), in some of my darker moments I wonder WTF.

These moments are few and brief. I know what I am doing this for, and I will fight to my last breath for your and my rights. I am PROUD to represent the FRA membership in all of our fights.
The FRA has a group of DEDICATED INDIVIDUALS as the Board of Directors, not just me. I'd kill for any of them. Same goes for the members.
Ask yourself: Do I benefit from the work of the Fishing Rights Alliance? Do I support the FRA's efforts? Did I join the FRA?
If you answered yes to all three, THANK YOU FROM ALL OF THE FRA DIRECTORS AND MEMBERS!!! If the last question tripped you up, PLEASE JOIN THE FRA TODAY!!!
Even if it costs me everything I have (which aint much after the divorce), I will NOT STOP THE EFFORT.
dENNY

[Powerhead]

Just the facts from our Lower Keys Gulf trip on 6/13/04

Commercial Spearfishing Trip
4 - divers
1 - driver
2 - man teams on each spot.

Each team did about 8 dives (Wrecks & Structure Bottom)
Dives ranged from 75 to 110 feet.
On each of my dives I saw no less than 5 Goliath Groupers and no more than 12. Ranging in size from 75 to 450 lb.

Although I didn't see any aggressive behavior or have any fish taken from me. I did have a 200 lb Goliath follow a 40 lb AJ to the top that I had shot well freediving above The B Team.

My team (The A Team) was placed on Wrecks that are alot less know than the Wrecks and Structures The B Team was sent down on. So the Goliath Groupers I saw seemed to be a little shy and stayed clear of me.

B Team Report.

I did not really ask but they reported seeing big GG's on every dive.
On a well known spot that sees alot of fishing & diving a diver said a large Goliath took a 30 lb Black grouper and his shaft. He said he grabbed the end of the shaft that was sticking out of the GG's mouth and pulled it out minus the 30lb Grouper.

The other diver said he had to push a large Goliath off his stringer several times before he gave it a little poke in the gills to fend it off.

Other than that we all freedove a large wreck in the shallows and I saw my first small Goliath (maybe 10LBs) hiding inside as the big boys patrolled the outside. Quit a site seeing a 450LB Goliath Grouper in 20 feet of water.

I don't know if the limited harvest area will reach the Keys or not, but if the "Powers That Be" are reading these post I hope they give this topic a good look.

I don't think taking 50 Goliath Grouper over the course of a year on a lottery system would even den the present GG population.
And of course I'm sure the dives on this board would not mind spending a few dollars for a limited harvest lottery ticket.

This weekend we plan to dive the Reef. So, I'll have another report on Monday or Tuesday.


Thank You,
Rick Gage

[Denny]

I'm thinking more like a thousand or so Goliaths a year. There are easily more than a hundred thousand big gols floating around. A 1% take aint even a drop in the bucket.
Get ready to hear some 'jewfish love' songs on this thread.

[Steel Shootin']

Denny, I know you and Rich have both worked hard and are probably reaching a level of frustration that is justified. I am going to give people the benefit of the doubt and instead of calling them apathetic, I'll assume they are just misinformed.

So......let's inform them of all the FRA is doing!!

Do you guys realize that for a meazly $35 you have a represenative/advocate attending out-of-state counsel meetings and workshops? Without this representation, junk science proposed by those who oppose spearing fish would have been used to seriously weaken your rights. Your donation to the FRA really goes to work for you. It's the cost of one shaft!

[ROCK BOTTOM]

I am a member. I am also trying to get the word out to my club members. Why? Because it is important. I feel that my plate is full with work, kids, life, etc. I can't make these meetings and keep up with the issues. It is therefore important that I pay for someone to do it for me. People tell me all the time that if we just keep our mouth shut, no one will notice us and they will leave us alone. The only thing this leave us divers is OUT.

Freediving is becoming very popular and there is a growing number of guys hunting pelagics off of Louisiana. These guys have no clue that what they are doing is illegal. I just hope that when they realize this they will then throw some support towards these groups who are protecting their rights.

Zz

[ROCK BOTTOM]

Spearing is not a legal gear type for the taking of a Highly Migratory Species such as Yellowfin Tuna. And they are trying to add wahoo and Mahi Mahi to the list also. Plus, it is illegal to harpoon an HMS; many ignorant people equate harpooning with gigging, bowfishing and spearing.

All this came about because no one was minding the store. The current regulations were written by fishermen without any input by spearos. We need to be heard or we will be left out again.

Zz

[Charlestondivin]

Off Charleston SC I have seen jewfish at:
Charleston 60 wreck. 60' of water 12 miles off chas ~100# resident
y73 wreck 110' #150 resident
Live bottom at the "gardens" Resident 150#
some spotted at 4ki
Probably half of the outcroppings or ledges on a southern heading has at least one jewfish on it. Most seem to be small (100-250#)

Have not yet had any try to take fish but we haven't shot any fish within close vicinity of any goliaths. Thats pretty far noth for them isn't it?

[ROCK BOTTOM]

For years we never saw game wardens. Now we see them about once every five to six trips. There are just too many cuts and canals to run and not enough money to go around. We see a lot of agents during duck season but they are fairly occupied with all the local "wing commanders" and only rarely stop fishing boats. When they do they usually are totally clueless about fishing regs. Fish identification is like Greek to these yankees from the midwest.

Zz

[deepstops]

I have no idea how the UW pics on the Fantastico will come out. We had a sharp thermo with 100' viz above it and 20-30' viz below. This is what we woke up to 80 miles out on the Roatan Express. We had 100' viz top to bottom out there.

All six divers agreed there were about 12 jewfish on the RE and 15-18 on the Fantastico which is actually far less than the last trip there but we had much better viz on that trip.

[Chad Carney]

AJ,

I just found this post in the Spearfishing Regulations section.

If you want something to seen, for Christ's sake don't bury it here!

I shot only one jewfish back when they were still legal and bearing that name. I'll never shoot another for harvest purposes, but I would love to see those so inclined start culliing the herd.

I'll be glad to give reports if there is a place to do that.

Last week I saw two on the Tramp Steamer, a couple on the MG Wreck, (Gwalia), and a couple more on MG reefs.

Chad

[Ed Walker]

Hopped in 1 mile off Stump Pass today for a look at a wreck we found last year in 20 feet of water. J-Fish owned it. Nothing else good that I saw. Was at least 10 up to....uh, maybe 350 lbs I guess.
Rod and reelers hook all they want under the Boca Grande phosphate dock. Its loaded.
Caught one in my crab trap off my dock in Tarpon Springs last year that was about a pound and landed 3 well up into the Anclote River that were less than 10 pounds.
And the most populated spot I know...? The Wilkes Barre in 200 foot off Big Pine Key. When we are there in August it is 100% impossible to catch ANY fish before it gets eaten by Jewfish regardless of tackle. That thing is LOADED.

[Red Tide]

We were fishing in 25 feet of water on a wreck off Tarpon Springs yesterday. Every time we hooked a Permit the Heebs would pound on them like hungry sharks. We lost three in a row. Now that is what I call catch and release.

[RichT]

Location- West om Manatee county,Fl.
I was out yesterday and dove Two wrecks.
The first one was a very small piece of seldom dove wreckage about 20 feet long and ten feet high with a few small pieces around it in 85 feet of water.
JBY's wife and I each counted 13 Goliath's from 75 pounds up to 400 pounds.
The second wreck was a well known barge in 75 feet of water and it had three Goliaths from 100-200 pounds.
We came in and dove some very small ledges(less than 2 foot high) in about 45 feet of water off of Anna maria Island and saw one small Goliath on each of them.
There are litterally thousands of ledges off Anna Maria Island in 40 -60 feet of water and if only 50 percent hold just one Goliath grouper... well you do the math.

[deepstops]

As a side note on our trip to the Roatan Express and Fantastico: we saw no other grouper (coney don't count). Back in 1999 and 2000, we were seeing just a few jewfish and good numbers of blacks/gags on the Fantastico and it seems the ratio has fully reversed now.

[BluewaterRocket]

Dove the Halsey out of Ft. Pierce, moderate abundance of large Goliaths , approx 8-10 in the 100-400 lb range, and numerous smaller ones. We had 6 shooters on board that dove all 3 pieces of the wreck over the course of two dives. Quite a few pelagics, jacks, bonita, barracuda, etc; however, no groupers, mangos, hogfish or lobsters were spotted.

Goliaths were spotted inside the wreck, cruising close the the outside of the superstructure, as well as lying in the sand around the wreck. Something I had not seen before, were large Goliaths stealthily hiding inside of baitballs - actually it was probaly the smaller fish hanging around the Goliaths - perhaps as a defensive mechanism.

They had no fear of the divers. I was swimming alongside the wreck drifting into one of the large, dark baitballs expecting it to open up and discovered I was only a few feet away from a 300-400 lb Goliath - that's when I realized some of them were embedded in the baitballs.

[Thunderball]

I have been diving and spearfishing for 28 years. Most of them in Florida. I have a Ph.D. in marine biology with a specialty in animal behavior/ichthyology. So I guess I have a good knowledge base.

*Where are you seeing them: on virtually any structure, natural or anthropogenic, that will provide them cover. Limestone ridges, deep water reefs, wrecks, towers, etc.

*How many: as many as the site will hold (depends on their size, time of year and size of the cover). The most I have ever seen was 7 on one site.

*What size: (juveniles: 60-600 lbs [est.])

*Their behaviors especially if they are aggressive: the entire gambit: shy, to overly agressive, especially if I have shot fishes (Lutjanids, Serranids, Sparids, Scieanids, Carangids, Triglids).

*What you have seen them eat: see above, but especially members of the Serranidae, Lutjanidae and Crarangidae.

*If you have seen increase in their populations: no, not in the last 5 years. But I do see them EVERY time I dive in the Keys, east or wests coasts.

*Anything else pertinent to determining whether a limited harvest can work. Before a limitted harvest can be contemplated, an accurate estimate has to be made about their population dynamics. To my knowledge, this has not been done except in a cursory way.

[E. Holland]

Thunderball,

You seem to be having some trouble with your keyboard.

[Thunderball]

My keyboard is made by Riffe. And I only use my left index finger. I'm just a fast typer. :)

[Thunderball]

My previous post should have said 17 individuals. Not 7.

[deepstops]

Originally posted by Thunderball
I have been diving and spearfishing for 28 years. Most of them in Florida. I have a Ph.D. in marine biology with a specialty in animal behavior/ichthyology. So I guess I have a good knowledge base.

*If you have seen increase in their populations: no, not in the last 5 years. But I do see them EVERY time I dive in the Keys, east or wests coasts.



I have no idea where you actually dive but I've "only" been diving since 1994 (nearing 1000 dives from Fort Pierce around to Fort Myers though) and I didn't even see my first jewfish until 1997 and now it's rare that I don't see one (or as many as 50 as I observed on the Fantastico wreck last summer). What I have seen is a big decrease in black and gag populations on the same spots where I now see an abundance of jewfish.

[Screen Name]

I have spent plenty of time diving off Ft. Myers, and there is no shartage of Jewfish there.......on the ledges or the wrecks. It is pretty common, in my experience, to see fish disapear where Jewfish move in..........and fish come back when jewfish move out. They are everywhere, I encounter them every trip. These are just a few encounters I recall. I noted the ones last year because it concerned me that they were every place I dove in the bay.

Location: Tampa Bay, wreck 1, 25 feet depth: Two mature (400+) fish and one juvenile. Mature fish "boomed" me and attacked several fish that I shot. May 2003

Location: Tampa Bay, wreck 2, 25 feet: Three mature (300+) and two juveniles, agressive while shooting snapper. May 2003

Location: Tampa Bay, Channel marker: (8) Jewfish ranging from 400 to 100, all packed under the marker. May 2003

Location: Bayport, 12 feet deep, One 300+ pounder and a 100 pound Juvenile, May 2004

Location: Bayport, 25 feet deep, a 100 pound Juvenile, May 2004

Location: 50 Miles offshore Clearwater: Jewfish in the cave where big grouper used to frequent. June 2004

Location: 100 Miles offshore: Jewfish in a cave where 70lb groupers used to live. May 2004

Location: Pipes, 100 miles off Tarpon, 10+ very agressive Jewfish,
attacking bait and speared fish. May 2004

Location: Pipes, 100 miles off Tarpon, 5+ agressive Jewfish,
attacking bait. April 2004

[LuvMyRedDog]

Dove the Pillsbury on Saturday. Saw 4 Jewfish between 250 and 350 lbs. and they weren't at all shy. Didn't see a single other grouper. Didn't see a single hog. There were some grey snapper, but not a lot else.

[Spearo_Fla]

Here is my input to this thread. As reported in the East Coast section.

After diving Port Everglades out of Ft. Lauderdale for over 10 years I have never seen a Goliath Grouper on the reefs until this weekend. It was on the inside of the third reef with no wreck in the area. He was at least 300-400 lbs. No wonder their wasn't a grouper in sight. I have seen other Goliath groupers much smaller around wrecks to the north.

[Speargun]

Where: Barge about 30 miles west of Cedar Key.
When: 6-26-04
How Many: 4 in the 200# to 400# range & 2 around 100#

Every time that I would look through a hole in the barge, a JF would swim up to me. I shot a few fish in the wreck, but every one was stripped off of the shaft before I could pull it out. These fish are not scared at all. My buddy was stringing up a fish on the sand outside of the wreck and I had to push off a 300# JF that was within 7' of him, coming for his stringer.

[PatMyGreen]

7-5-04
Panama City Beach, Fl
Dropped down on the Navy Trash Pile to finish off a tank. On a barge like strucure with a large opening in the deck my buddy and I encountered a goliath. I estimate it at 5' in length and have no idea what it weighed. 55' depth lots of bait and a handfull of juvy gags and snapper. It let us get close enough to poke at it before it moved into the structure.

[Speargun]

Hit the same barge as above on 7-11-04.
My buddy was looking around the bottom of the wreck, no fish on the stringer, when the big boy (400#) came up behind him and literally rolled him over, pushing him away from the wreck.

It's one thing for them to hang around and steal a fish every now and then, but when they start getting physical.....

[Grauer]

I just found this thread. Im not sure if the time has passed for its use, however it doesnt do very much good where it cant be found. :(

[SLAYER]

On the east coast there is at least one goliath grouper on every wreck that I've dove from boca to st. Lucie, and it is possible that I have dove almost every know wreck in the area and a few unknown wrecks. Also they are on many of the ledges. I just dove the Aade(180') out of West Palm and there was a school of about 6 300 lb to 500 lb G.G.

My dive partners and I have had many fish taken from us sometimes right out of our hands. One while freediving on a wreck in 65' out of Jupiter I had a G.G. follow me to withen 5 feet of the surface grab my fish and beline to the bottom. It was so close to the surface that I pulled the line in and almost had my hand on the shaft. I'm lucky that I didn't get tangled in the line.

Another time on a different wreck I had one grab my stringer out of my hand and in the process it sucked my pressure gauge in, and started pulling me at full speed toward the wreck luckly my gauge came out of its mouth before it made it inside the wreck.

Those are just two of the notable encounters that I can think of. Both of those encounters could have ended bad, espiecially if I was an inexpeirenced diver, but luckly they didn't. It's only a matter of time before someone isn't so lucky

[SLAYER]

Also I agree with seaweed27 I never check the spearfishing regulations section. someone should tell the rest of the board about this tread.

[Spearo_Fla]

Let me add to my previous post on this subject - The big guy was missing my last visit to this spot. Well there were at least half of dozen groupers in the area. My partner got a 25-30 lb black I got two blacks also plue a yellowfin. Just goes to show you Goliath+Grouper= No Grouper and No Goliath+Grouper=Grouper = happy Spearo!

[from the sea]

off marathon on a landing craft in the bay 8-10 fsw 1 resident jf 7'+ maybe 600 ld, dont really know the waight, im 6'7" and this fish is a lot biger than i am, not agressive when diveing, but fishing cant get a fish in the boat.

[stainlessdeath]

I am diving the numerous artificials around sarasota. M3, M4, M8, M9, M7 and the like. Depths range from 40 to 55 feet. Five years ago there would be one or two on any given reef. Size back then were all big, in the 400 or 500 pound range. During that time frame there were large populations of all types of fish. Gag and red Groupers, mango snaps, yellowtails, hogs, doormat flounder, slipper lobster, and spinies. They GG's were not very aggressive mostly curious and I could sear fish to my hearts content. NOW... completely different story. Most of these artificials are just groups of reef balls not real big,not much shelter for a 500 pound fish. But what a great foood source! The afforementioned species are rare to encounter these days. Last time i dove m7 there were 10 GG's ranging from 75 to 500 lbs. No other fish. Barely even a grunt. This would suggest that they are eating the fish that are Smallerthan them. Big fish eat little fish, natural selection baby. I have notwitnessed this with my own eyes, but I can tell you with certainty that they are eating my hook and line catch. I haul the 100 pounders up on my 80 pound rig after eating a food fish all the time. sometimes the big boys take a turn and zip me. Some of the fish I catch and see have multiple busted rigs in their mouths. I have watched GG's follow a hooked fish from the bottom almost all the way to the boat, hot after an easy meal. (On more than one reef) I would love to harvest these guys. It is like over harvesting deer and letting the wolves eat the ones that were not harvested. If you thin the animals on the lower part of the food chain you have to likewise thin the apex predators. That's my two cents.(by the way the same thing is going on with shark populations, but that is my other two cents).

[greyface]

Asleep at the wheel, mods?:confused:

[PatMyGreen]

My bad I must have missed it too. I guess... good looking out Grayface, sorry about the mix up.

[stainlessdeath]

Right on Pat you got dat right!

[greyface]

PMG - the post in question was not from stainlessdeath, and was taken down.

[PatMyGreen]

Found a biggun on the Accokeek. The largest I have seen to date. Size and weight are hard to guess at because it was so large, est 6' and 500#s. The wreck goes down to just past 100' but this guy seemed to be pretty happy chilling on the deck in about 70' and squeezing in and out of the wheel house and barking if you got close. It sounded like someone slamming a tank into the metal hull of the boat when it barked. Pretty cool. Needless to say we didn't shoot anything on the wreck as almost everything was small and spooky. Lots of bait were present also.

[Wayward Son]

There's one on the B&B barge, maybe 400 lbs? Out of Panama City.

I also saw a large one on the Liberty ship recently.

[Nsearch]

Counted more than 15 on the Mexican Pride on 10/24/04, 5 of those were over 500 lbs. The big ones were difinitely interested in us after they heard the sound of the speargun go off and we got few "thumps" as if they were calling to us to give up our catch in their territory.

[from the sea]

i have seen a few on the leadges in the gulf around marathon. 300-400#s all on leadges less that a foot high in 15-20fsw i wanna get some :)

[from the sea]

and i seen 2 in my cannal yesterday 8-9#s

[stainlessdeath]

I dove the M7 reef off sarasota sunday and saw five that would go three hundred, and several in the 50-80 pound range. they didn't like me cause i was scary!

[datamunk]

i just found this thread, and read through its entirety, LOTS OF READING! i have been shy to join onto the FRA because i was still so new to this entire sport, but i figure that if i dont help now, while i learn, that i wont get a chance TO enjoy the sport... especially with the FWC trying to make Dade to Martin a no-take zone, which is where i live! (stuart) so i need to do my part... id love to go to meetings but i still have alot to learn! so, once posted, im joining the FRA!!!

[PatMyGreen]

Glad to have you aboard, now go tell all your friends!!

[stainlessdeath]

PMG is right Data. Your friends and dive/fishing buddies need to know about the FRA. Majority of people don't know it exists!

[Simply Scuba]

Perhaps we could use a catagory on spearboard for documenting our observations. A standardised form. I just found the thread, put a link on every regional shooting report. There is probally no organized recreational input out there.
I've seen hundreds from small and timid to large agressive and fast. Taking any free meal, but amberjack seem to be the thing to feed them 2nd only to a lobster. I bet most of us have had more close calls with GG than sharks. They don't much care whats inbetween them and free meal.

[Doc]

I got some sweet high quality video of a wreck; the orange tug, covered in a heard of about 40-50 of them. Mostly small 75-200 lbs. Of note on the video is that there are no shootable fish...

The following link has these videos and others; all shot by spearboard member meekal. Meekal may also be able to provide better footage than the one I mentioned. Scroll down to the March 6 Dive "Doc on the tug" to download.

[Speargun]

Originally posted by Doc
I got some sweet high quality video of a wreck;
The following link has these videos and others;... Uh.... What link? :rolleyes:

[Doc]

OOPS.

Here it is:

http://piddlefish.servepics.com/SCUBA/video.html

[snooker]

The cans on the Egmont shipping channel almost all of them outside of Egmont have GG (multiple) on the block that holds them down. We usually try and freedive cobia there.

Also on the rubble near the skyway I have seen multiple juvies that come runnng out at you. I agree with Rich that most people have more encounters with GGs than with sharks.

[riski]

back in the early 90's i knew of 1 breeding pair of goliath grouper (GG) on pinellas 1 art. reef and now 12 years later they are everywhere, pinellas 1 & 2. last fall the orange tug they put down at south pinellas art.reef held anywhere from 20-50 GG of all sizes! we even dove old masthead ledge and all we saw for fish was 1 big GG 300-400#.
in nite shark fishing at pinellas 1 art. reef in mid june 04,we caught 3 GG on hook & line and got them to the boat,small 1 was 350-400# the big 1 i estimate at 600-700#,it was so heavy and big,i couldn't even drag it up on the swim platform to remove the hook from it and i'm 6'1" and 215#!
i had a 5-6',400-500# GG take a nice amberjack off my line shaft at the sheridan tug at pinellas 2 art. reef the middle of may 04. the amberjack was 3-4' long just fyi.
the gulf is just lousy with GG anymore and they are a just plain pain in the neck as far as i'm concerned.2 weeks ago at the blackthorn i shot a nice cobia and had a GG following me around trying to steal it twice from me,wish i could have taken him too!!!
i never find lobster anymore in the places i used to find them and i believe it is the GG eating them up and wiping them out.
the GG need to be thinned out to give others living out there a chance!
Riski

[OTTO3663]

I see Goliaths more and more every year in the Jacksonville offshore area.They can be intimidating, and I have lost more than one fish due to one. Thats no big deal I feel I'm putting myself in the food chain, survival of the fittest. That being said if I ever feel threatened enough where I am actually frightened -that Jewfish will have a .357 in its head. I will be surfacing -unbent, and his (or her) cannibal friends can have it.
There should be some limited harvesting of these fish. Any fish that we can't legally harvest, that can eat a 100lb. fish we can harvest - has to be looked at.

[aue-mike]

And the most populated spot I know...? The Wilkes Barre in 200 foot off Big Pine Key. When we are there in August it is 100% impossible to catch ANY fish before it gets eaten by Jewfish regardless of tackle. That thing is LOADED.

Sure it wasn't cudas or something else? Every time we have dived it there has only been one resident on each section of that wreck. Got hours of video from 2000-2004 and we predictably see one fish on the stern superstructure up high, and one on the bow usually hanging up high near the break and guns. Lots of habitat there for them, but never seen more than a single GG.

[RichT]

Sure it wasn't cudas or something else? Every time we have dived it there has only been one resident on each section of that wreck. Got hours of video from 2000-2004 and we predictably see one fish on the stern superstructure up high, and one on the bow usually hanging up high near the break and guns. Lots of habitat there for them, but never seen more than a single GG.


Mike,
Interesting you bring that up. Some observations I have made are that many wrecks seem to have some resident goliath grouper while other times they are absolutely loaded with resident fish and additional fish that appear and dissapear.
I have three wrecks that are pretty much "secret" wrecks. I know.... nothing is completely secret in the gulf but these wrecks are as close to virgin as you can get. Ive dove these wrecks when there are only a couple of Golith's and other times when there are dozens of goliath's roaming around. :confused:

And then... there are some wrecks like the fin barge and the Mexican pride that seem to always have an overabundance of jewfish no matter what time of year it is or how much bait is around.
I have not read much from the researchers on this phenomenon.
I would suspect that many of the jewfish are like all the other groupers and follow the bait around but then why are certain ledges and wrecks so lousy with them even when the wreck or ledge is completely devoid of bait?

These personal observations (and several others) lead me to question much of the Science that is being written on these critters.

[WreckDiver]

I have three wrecks that are pretty much "secret" wrecks. I know.... nothing is completely secret in the gulf but these wrecks are as close to virgin as you can get.


Surely one of those would be that super secret burnt shrimper ;)

[RichT]

Surely one of those would be that super secret burnt shrimper ;)



;)

[aue-mike]

Goliath do move around periodically, such as when there is a low temperature event or for spawning. That is mentioned in the literature. However, they do demonstrate strong site fidelity. Tagging studies and visual census work support that. And I think most other divers here would say that is a pretty good rule of thumb based on their experiences (?).

Also, just because you don't see them, does not mean they aren't there. Recently, I have noted at some sites the GG are moving out into the sand (sometimes pretty far) and on the perimeter of a wreck, instead of stacked up like they used to be.
Sometimes they may indeed vacate a spot, but the general rule of thumb is a pretty good predictor.

As far as the Wilkes, having dived that in all times of the year (including prime spawning time), and fairly consistently, I have yet to see more than one resident on there. Having watched film from the wreck dived in the early 80s, I don't recall seeing significant numbers on the wreck either. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I have yet to hear it from other divers or see it myself. In the Atlantic and on deeper wrecks past 200fsw, many times you generally only have one, maybe two fish. On the shallower wrecks you might have more, but the Atlantic abundance/density seems to be very different from the Gulf.

YMMV...
Cheers,
Mike

Mike,
Interesting you bring that up. Some observations I have made are that many wrecks seem to have some resident goliath grouper while other times they are absolutely loaded with resident fish and additional fish that appear and dissapear.
I have three wrecks that are pretty much "secret" wrecks. I know.... nothing is completely secret in the gulf but these wrecks are as close to virgin as you can get. Ive dove these wrecks when there are only a couple of Golith's and other times when there are dozens of goliath's roaming around. :confused:

And then... there are some wrecks like the fin barge and the Mexican pride that seem to always have an overabundance of jewfish no matter what time of year it is or how much bait is around.
I have not read much from the researchers on this phenomenon.
I would suspect that many of the jewfish are like all the other groupers and follow the bait around but then why are certain ledges and wrecks so lousy with them even when the wreck or ledge is completely devoid of bait?

These personal observations (and several others) lead me to question much of the Science that is being written on these critters.

[aue-mike]

I have three wrecks that are pretty much "secret" wrecks. I know.... nothing is completely secret in the gulf but these wrecks are as close to virgin as you can get. Ive dove these wrecks when there are only a couple of Golith's and other times when there are dozens of goliath's roaming around.

I don't believe you - I think you need to take me to these wrecks to prove it :D

[RichT]

Im not sure if I mentioned it yet in this thread or not(dont feel like re-reading all 5 pages) but one of the most incredible things i have yet witnessed in all my diving experiences occured approximately ten years ago. It happend on a wreck aproximately 5o miles southwest of St. Pete on a very large shrimpboat wreck in 170 fsw.

As I was going down to the wreck it looked as if it was moving! :confused: :eek:
I closed my eyes for a second and continued on thinking I was getting a little narced. When I opened them again the wreck was still moving!
And then... I finnaly got close enought to see the most incredible thing I have ever seen to this day.
The wreck was loaded with not dozens or even a hundred Jewfish.
It was loaded with what I would estimate to be several hundred Jewfish!! :eek:
They were litteraly shoulder to shoulder on top of the wreck, along the sides and well out in the sand!

I just hovered about thirty feet above the spectacle and swam the length of the very large shrimp boat astonished at what I was seeing. I noticed a couple of extremely large carbos mixed in with the bunch but was not about to shoot anything in that mass of fish.

I noticed my dive partner floating even higher than I was above the rigging just shaking his head at what he was seeing.
Back then, we were only diving air on aluminum 80's so we were only there for a couple minutes before we decided to bug out.
Once on the boat we were both nearly speechless.
I asked my buddy how many fish he thinks he just saw?
He responded "at least 200, maybe more".
I responded "I agree with your assesment"
The other guy on the boat responded with "you two are full of shizit and must have been narced out of your gords"!

Never before and never since have I seen or heard about anybody experiencing a congregation of that many fish in one spot.

[Shark Byte]

In my experience diving in the Gulf of Mexico out of Clearwater Pass over the past twenty five years the population of Jewfish has grown significantly in both numbers and boldness. In the summer of 2001, I had a GG bend like it was about to strike and followed me up into the water column well off the reef, as I was carrying three large gags on a stringer. Now, whether you dive RA, Veterans, Indian Shores or any of the artificials in shallower or deeper water, you see many GG everytime. They also seem to be unafraid of divers. This is more disconcerning, perhaps an annual harvest would place a healthy fear into those fishes. Its extremely important to counter act negative affects mankind has on God's animals of all kinds. But man is not responsible to preserve all species and attrition is normal and healthy for the planet. Our protection of this particular grouper has created an abnormal distribution of this species as they possess an unnatural competitive advantage over other groupers. Their prolificacy has been restored and it would serve the interest of the natural environment to reduce their numbers.

[ICEMANSS]

Just found this thread......About 2 yrs ago I fished a barge off of horseshoe beach in 75'.We got our limit of grouper and AJ's easily.We finnally got back to it a few months later and nothing,over and over nothing! Finnally got to dive it a month ago and to no surpise 6 GG's from 100 pounds and up.No more gags just jews.Also another tall structured sight off of suwannee had atleast 4 that I could see and one was atleast 700+ and we had to beat him off and continually keep an eye on him.Im fairely new to the sport and have seen plenty of sharks,cuda,and jews and in my opinion the jews were the more intimidating and agressive.

[stainlessdeath]

they are everywhere... not only deep, but in shallow as well. theyr are animals!

[KWspearClub]

I was harrassed 2 days ago by a 100+ GG when I stuck my head in a huge ledge in 15 feet of water in jewfish basin in the gulf 2 miles North of Key West. When I stuck my head in he charged at me grunting and almost knocked my gun out of my hand, I went back down to look once more in the ledge after he left and he shoved his way back into the ledge to block my view. It seems like the GG know they cant be shot so they are getting braver and braver. :cool:

[Cuban Mule]

These fish are everywhere. I saw one that was probably 600 lbs, maybe bigger, on the airplane in 160' about 2 months ago.

When I shot the big carbo last august, he was hanging in a pack of 12-15 jewfish on a small ledge.

They are on every piece of bottom imaginable, in every depth, on every coast.

I won't let those fauckers get near me though. There's something about the ass end of the 54' rhino in their grill that tends to keep them away.

[SLAYER]

there are not enough to start killing them

[Mako993]

Yeah, if they're not harvested even minimally, they'll walk all over you because they've lost their fear of man, the top predator in the food chain. Sounds like we need to put the steel to those fellas down your way - sign me up for a harvest if a law ever passes. They're decent eating :]

[CWitch]

I agree with Ed, this should have been started in a different area of the board. Anyway, If someone has a camera, I will take them to 4 spots and show them 50 or 60 of them. I have brought this up before. If a wreck, say the Sulpher Barge, has 2 dozen GG on it (which it does), then how much fin-fish are they consuming every day? With an average weight of say, 70 to 90 lbs for each GG, then one would assume they are eating 5 lbs of fish each day. Multiply that by 20 fish, that is 100 lbs a day. Multiply that by 365 days, well you get the picture. And that is just one wreck. Any substantial structure with any decent refief is holding GG. They really have no predators so who or what is keeping them in balance with the ecosystem? I used to fish for them and I can tell you that they eat lobster, grouper, snapper and what ever else crosses their path. They have also become extremely bold and have little or no fear of divers. With so many of them sharing habitat, they have become aggresive and it is very common to have one attack your catch or aggresively defend their territory.

I think that a limited harvest each year would provide the balance that is not there now.

[jmaze1]

Actually, from what I've seen the past couple of weeks, we are having a limited jewfish (I refuse to call them "goliath grouper") harvest. It's called Red Tide :(

[junior]

Actually, from what I've seen the past couple of weeks, we are having a limited jewfish (I refuse to call them "goliath grouper") harvest. It's called Red Tide :(

I'll take any help we can get:D

[markZ]

GG' and diver dispute over who gets the snappers
http://www.keynoter.com/articles/2005/06/10/news/news01.prt

Also, GG's in large numbers in the JupiterDiveCenter area, see the photo's
http://www.jupiterdivecenter.com/divereport.html

[Southern Cross]

When I was a kid we used to shoot Coons in the yard with compound bows.
We would take the tips off the arrows and put a tennis ball on the end.
Just gave them enough to stay out of the yard for a while.

Is it illegal to harass a jewfish? Maybe hit him with a shaft tipped with a golf ball? May keep them off your ass when you have fish with you.
Kind of like kicking them in the nuts every time you see them. Eventually they would get tired of it.

Just a thought, I've never seen one. Or any fish that made me feel threatened. I'm sure its coming, but will probably be a shark or a ballsy cuda on one of my rigs.

[Quetzal]

Goliaths in Texas
COAST GUARD SEIZES 16,000 POUNDS OF SHRIMP


CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas - The Coast Guard and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration seized 16,000 pounds of shrimp from a fishing boat in the Gulf of Mexico today.

While on a fisheries patrol in the Gulf of Mexico Friday evening, the Coast Guard Cutter Steelhead, with a NOAA agent on board, located and boarded shrimp boat La Pachita. Upon inspecting the boats nets, the boarding crew discovered that the turtle excluder devices, also known as TEDs, were sewn shut.

Fishing or trawling with TEDs sewn shut is a violation of federal law under the Endangered Species Act (ESA), and authorizes the boat's catch to be seized. Also seized were three prohibited Goliath groupers, and approximately 300 undersized red snappers.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/news/news_SED_082005.html

[Gradyman]

We dove this past spring out of Ponce Inlet (Daytona Beach). On two seperate occasions we had the pleasure of showing off three GG to some first time divers. One was so docile he let us pet him, BUT we didn't have any fish. The wreck was the Rio Yuma located about 13 miles from the Inlet. On one of the trips I had managed to shoot a small snapper and one of them did come around to check out my dive bag...after shooting a 35lb AJ on the same dive I had one folow me up the anchor line for awhile...after giving him a punch in the snout with the butt of my gun he went back down to the wreck.

On a more recent dive at Mango Hole about 32 miles out of Ponce Inlet we had seen a GG...I never felt threatend.

This past July we dove the barge off Flagler and there were about five GG there. All of them seemed very timid to us and would try to swim away from us when approached. These ranged in size from 30lbs to 300lbs.

Most of the Goliaths mentioned were in the 100-300 pound range.

[IRONHEAD]

GRADY SAID:
On a more recent dive at Mango Hole about 32 miles out of Ponce Inlet we had seen a GG...I never felt threatend.

RESPONSE:
I saw this fish as well as another although they didn't bother us the big one was out of the wall in like .5 seconds after grady shot a mango. I saw what appeared to me to be an 8' long GG. now I know it was much smaller due to the fact things look 33% larger underwater. I am guessing it went maybe 400 lbs I originally thought it to be 600 or more. I am not sure if grady saw this fish but I sure did after seeing it I was reluctant to pulling the trigger on anything being my very fist spearfishing dive. also was my deepest dive at 115' previously only had been to 85 foot. Even though I didn't shoot anything on this dive it was definitely an experience I wont soon forget seeing grady hit the fish and immediately a big monster in the murky green water haul ass out of no where and go back in within seconds like a ghost. good stuff

[BiggsBubleWachr]

GG' and diver dispute over who gets the snappers
http://www.keynoter.com/articles/2005/06/10/news/news01.prt

Also, GG's in large numbers in the JupiterDiveCenter area, see the photo's
http://www.jupiterdivecenter.com/divereport.html

As noted in the article re attack by a Goliath Grouper.
My husband was out after stone crab ( 2nd week of season) under a bridge nearby us here, he said it was quite merky water and he could only see backwards to his knee. Something LARGE grabbed this bright orange ( free diver) fin, not once but twice, shaking him quite violently, then he heard the familiar BARKING type noise that the GG make. He decided enough was enough and left for another spot he knows to have stone crab. A very good idea I thought.... They have ( all three Bigg's guys ) said that they are normally docile.
He as well as his boys have also said before that the GG are territorial, and will steal anything you try to take from an area they consider theirs...
ask John again about Spearboard Open this year.
I am sorry to hear you were injured, as I had not heard anything that aggressive from the GG stories I had heard to date.
When Dan told his story to me I was quite scared. Something as huge as these fish get, and to have attacked a human!
Seems as though it is time to let them be hunted back?? :thumps:

[Gorilla]

Thats such a great and often thought idea. I often find many Goliath in good abundance and have a digital underwater video cam. I'll try to get some footage.

[Thunderball]

The problem with these stories: goliath grouper eat smaller sportfish, they are agressive towards divers, they are abundant on man-made reefs, is that it misses the mark about why we should explore the possibility of harvesting them. If a limitted fishery is opened, it should be based on good science and not on anecdotal stories about how big and ugly they are. Unfortunately, it is hard to collect worthy data on stock strength for a species that is distributed in such a clumped or concentrated pattern. Reviewing films and photos and second hand reports wont provide meaningful data. We have to admit, regulatory agencies have no idea about 1) the current status of the fish stock, 2) what constitutes a healthy stock, 3) what long term goals should be developed (other than closing the fishery altogether). Like most spearboard members, I'd love to have a shot at one of those big boys (girls, actually). Keep us informed as things progress with this thread!

[BadLatitude]

Spearing is not a legal gear type for the taking of a Highly Migratory Species such as Yellowfin Tuna. And they are trying to add wahoo and Mahi Mahi to the list also. Plus, it is illegal to harpoon an HMS; many ignorant people equate harpooning with gigging, bowfishing and spearing.

All this came about because no one was minding the store. The current regulations were written by fishermen without any input by spearos. We need to be heard or we will be left out again.

Zz

You are absoloutly wrong. U cant get a NMFS harpooning lic from Nmfs FOR TUNA. Either that or several hundred boats break the law with the uscg watching every single tuna season off newengland ,, BTW they stick boat swordfish also.

[narcosis]

I realize that this thread may be dead, but for what it is worth, I have been diving the rigs off the Texas coast for about 10 years, and saw my first GG last year (in Texas) about 25 miles offshore in about 70 feet of water. I have seen them on almost every wreck dive I have done in recent years in Florida.

The Texas fish probably weighed aboout 100lbs. I know that there used to be hundreds of big GG in Texas, but hear they were decimated by longliners. I was glad to see one, but do hope the population doesn't bounce back to the extent it has in Florida. We have enough trouble keeping our red snapper population up with the shrimpers netting them and the commercial snapper guys killing way more than their limits.

[Rock Monster]

Is that fra $ 35 a year , month or what ?

[biggsy]

Is that fra $ 35 a year , month or what ? It's an annual membership. There are several options. Here is a link to the join page. http://thefra.org/joinfra.htm

[Serpent6]

FYI,

Goliath Grouper Removed from Species of Concern List by NOAA Fisheries - March 7, 2006

After being protected from harvest by fishermen since 1990, NOAA Fisheries Service announced last week that it has removed goliath grouper (formally known as jewfish) from its species of concern list.

http://www.safmc.net/Default.aspx?tabid=433

One step closer in a good direction.
:knees:

[Quetzal]

Goliath grouper are popular attractions to reef divers who wish to view and photograph these large, "docile" ? creatures.

[FishBusta]

Last year I drove to an FWC meeting in Daytona. I read a prepared statement before the council regarding Epinephelus itajara, the goliath grouper, still called by many the jewfish. I was the only speaker for this topic.
After I left, I felt that I had wasted my time driving the 180 miles round trip, as there appeared to be little interest in hearing what I had to say. The council members had no questions and mearly thanked me for my input. I hope what I read on the preceding posts indicates a change in the FWC's interest in the managment for this species. On coasal Florida, every wreck, from well north of Tampa to north of Daytona, with no exceptions that I'm aware of, has a resident population from 2 to as many as 50 animals. The shallow reefs are now becoming the haven for many, and what's notable is that when they set up camp in an area it soon becomes devoid of lobster, and other small reef fish. As an earlier post mentioned they are throwing the ecology of the reefs and wrecks out of kilter. This I believe, is correct.

I went to a small piece of a wreck in 60' of water a few weeks ago, put two divers down, and they came up with a tale of about 12 to 14 jewfish on a little piece of the bow of a boat sticking up out of the sand. The fish were estimated to be from 60 to over 400 pounds and absolutely fearless. I'm pretty sure that this story can be repeated in many areas of the state.

Now is this species ready for a limited harvest? Quite possibly, but it must be very controlled and very limited. Lottery, ala gator permits? Purchase a harvest ticket, ala tarpon? Slot limits? Powerheads? I think the FWC must address this issue, and address it soon. They are no longer a rare sight diving, but quite common indicating a rather healthy population. There is a tendency for most groups to reject anecdotal data, but in this case it's really all we have.

Please, if you are a eco-tourist dive charter operation, post your comments, but do so a constructive vane rather than vent vehement opposition. It's just a matter of time before they allow a limited harvest. All sides will be considered before they come up with a plan - I hope!

[FishBusta]

Last year I drove to an FWC meeting in Daytona. I read a prepared statement before the council regarding Epinephelus itajara, the goliath grouper, still called by many the jewfish. I was the only speaker for this topic.
After I left, I felt that I had wasted my time driving the 180 miles round trip, as there appeared to be little interest in hearing what I had to say. The council members had no questions and mearly thanked me for my input. I hope what I read on the preceding posts indicates a change in the FWC's interest in the managment for this species. On coastal Florida, every wreck, from well north of Tampa to north of Daytona, with no exceptions that I'm aware of, has a resident population from 2 to as many as 50 animals. The shallow reefs are now becoming the haven for many, and what's notable is that when they set up camp in an area it soon becomes devoid of lobster, and other small reef fish. As an earlier post mentioned they are throwing the ecology of the reefs and wrecks out of kilter. This I believe, is correct.

I went to a small piece of a wreck in 60' of water a few weeks ago, put two divers down, and they came up with a tale of about 12 to 14 jewfish on a little piece of the bow of a boat sticking up out of the sand. The fish were estimated to be from 60 to over 400 pounds and absolutely fearless. I'm pretty sure that this story can be repeated in many areas of the state.

Now is this species ready for a limited harvest? Quite possibly, but it must be very controlled and very limited. Lottery, ala gator permits? Purchase a harvest ticket, ala tarpon? Slot limits? Powerheads? I think the FWC must address this issue, and address it soon. They are no longer a rare sight diving, but quite common indicating a rather healthy population. There is a tendency for most groups to reject anecdotal data, but in this case it's really all we have.

Please, if you are a eco-tourist dive charter operation, post your comments, but do so a constructive vane rather than vent vehement opposition. It's just a matter of time before they allow a limited harvest. All sides will be considered before they come up with a plan - I hope!

[Lobsterman]

Rico,

I agree with you regarding the (what seems to be) inevitable "regulated" harvest. The 180 mile drive I would have to debate for myself.

Anyway, I too could tell stories from an East Coast divers perspective of goliaths where none were previously seen in recent years. Personally, not only would I support and participate in a limited harvest, but also am willing to sign a petition or otherwise stating so. Unfortunately, with limited time and proper education regarding the avenues of support, I am in the dark other than hearsay and threads.

So, if it matters, list me with those that support the havest/ want to shoot.... :D

Steve

[Gradyman]

I can report seeing 3 Goliaths on June 3, 06 off Flagler county on a ship wreck I've been told is named the Chlorine Barge. Saw only one other type of grouper, a scamp, during two dives of 35 to 45 minutes each. Many snapper and AJ's.

[DryEspo]

I use to live in the TB area and moved to Dallas in 99. It has been 7 years since doing any diving or spearfishing in the Gulf (God do I miss it). Recently, in the past 8 months I have come back a few times to dive (SBO being the latest) and was amazed to see the population explode. Small peices like the doors holding 5 and 6 100+ pound fish... it was crazy.

In order for any data to be useful or taken seriously some amount of work on our part will be nesessary.

A standardized reporting form should be created. It should be done in coordination with the FWC and possibly with FRA input. Location, date, time and quant of fish with estimated size, pics if posssible. etc...

Then as trips are made, data can be collected in a unform manor to determin populations and health ( at least a educated stab at it). With as many divers as there are along the Gulf coast and S. Atlantic, a large amount of Data could be collected very fast.

I would think an on-line form, maybe a link here and at other dive/spearo sites would be the easiest way.

Maybe it's time for the "anonymous" person to come forward and shed some light on exactly what data should be collected, in what format, and so on. Otherwise we will do nothing more than post 7 pages of usless data and get nowhere .

[diverik]

Skimmed through the post and didn't see the Amazon in Ft. Pierce on this list 5-20 GGat any time from 100-400 lbs., there are other wrecks around here that are not on the charts with GG on them. The Highdrop ledge has a couple big boys on it in 65 ft. I also see them on the 80 ft bar to the north on almost every dive.

[gogators27]

I would like to report that off of cedar key there are a lot of huge Jewfish, at least 10 on the barge, about 8 on the bridge, there are a ton of artificials that only consist of about 150 square feet of square modules, and sometimes we will hunt around and in them. I consistently see anywhere from 1-3 large ones on this type of stucture. Yesturday, two of them where just laying on the bottom next to modules. And the larger one was about 7 feet long. After a while I wanted him to get out of the way so I could have some room to poke my head in some holes and not worry that my legs or fish would be engulfed in this suckers mouth. So I cam whithin 5 feet and made some sudden movements at it with my fist. Well, I will definately not do that again, I was a little above it and in front, and that thing "Chomped" a couple times and then darted right by me, I was left saying, that thing could have killed me. Just a bit scared I would say. My dive buddy had to fight to get back one of his grouper and a 19 lb AJ, from a large one as well. They eat large fish like they are just a little snack.

[RichT]

I reported this in another thread but probably not a lot of people saw it.
Two weeks ago while diving the West Coast Council tournament I was attacked and bitten by a Goliath grouper that Bucket One and I guessed to be about 350 pounds.
It was a rather minor incident but certainly had the potential to be much worse.

I was diving a wreck and laying on the bottom. A jewfish was sitting about 40 feet away when I shot a mangrove snapper about 15 feet away with a line shaft. The Goliath immediately charged the fish as I pulled it towards me as fast as I could. I pulled the snapper in close to my body but when the goliath was about 5 feet from me, he opened his mouth and continued strait for my head!
I instinctively put my hand out to block the charge and he veered slightly off but clamped down on my arm like a vise approximately 3/4 of the way up my forarm.
He gave a quick head shake, which tore my 3mm wetsuit and caused some minor cuts on my arm. what hurt more than the cuts was the vise like snapping and wrenching of my forarm when he shook his head.
It all happened in probably less than a second.

On another dive later that day. On a different wreck. Bucket one and I both watched as an Aj about 60-70 pounds that Bucket had just stoned was devoured by a Goliath almost as quickly as it was shot. Shaft and all! :eek:
That wreck had over 30 goliath grouper on it from about 50 pounds up to 400++ pounds.

I fear that it will only be a matter of time before somebody gets seriously injured by these animals. They have become accustomed to having absolutely no fear of divers and often look to them as a free source of food.IMO

[jakevandeman]

about 40 miles or more of key west on some of the deep radio towers i was diving in in seventty feet of water and it was loaded with large jewfish, probally about 20 and all were about 200# at least many bigger, and everyfish we would shoot we would have to pull up very fast, the grouper were going after about everything we shot and we lost about 6 or seven nice 30# plus fish to the big goliaths, one ripped my shooting line and ate the whole fish, the 6 foot spear was sticking out of its mouth and it looked like a toothpick the two fish we did get weighed 32 and 25 pounds

[jakevandeman]

it was really clear and looking down to the bottom all you could see was big goliath grouper, which were grunting and aggressive when you got close

[Megabeast]

When I dove the Drydock on 6/21/06... I only went into one part of the gigantic wreck and saw at least 10. Came inshore to a little bitty barge and it had a resident 200-300 lbers. Dove Casablanca two days later, and found 3 big angry thumpers on it. They are on just about every wreck in Jax.

[Trinigordo]

Hey they aren't the greatest illustration of photography but they are the best ones I could get on my limited Florida diving.

[DABEER]

I Do Not Currently Live In The Us But Am Over Seas Away From Home And Although I Am Not In Florida I Side Greatly With The Fra And When Returing Home Plan To Join And Most Proably Become A Marine Patrol Officer Where When I Get Back I Hope That I Can Make A Diffence In My Own Way Gg Populations Are Outrageous 4 Years Ago When I Was Home I Cant Fathom What They Must Be Now

[STITCH]

Here is the most recent pic I have of a Goliath Grouper. This pic was taken right before we (my girlfriend/dive buddy & I) were ran off the bow of the Rio by four of them as big if not bigger that this one. I think that a lotto type permiting system would be a great idea. :thumps:

[bfsc]

Just curious...Does anyone know what, if anything, is being done to open harvest on Jew Fish? What else can we do besides tell stories and show pictures? Sometimes it seems like no one is listening,or doesn't understand how bad they are. Are there any current studies being done on them? I alway here people talking about what "needs" to be done, but what is actually being done to achieve the goals.

I never thought they were found as far north as the Carolinas, but I read a report recently that said they seem them farely often. I know in south Florida they are literally on every wreck and big ledge. The most I ever saw was on the Castor of Boynton a few years ago I lost count after 40. We were just there the other day and saw about 20-30.

I guess I am just wondering what steps are being taken?

[bug_power]

Just thought I'd share a nice picture I saw after reading this thread..
http://www.bio.fsu.edu/coleman_lab/Goliath%20Grouper_files/GG%205%20amigos.jpg

[Speargun]

A quote from that website:

http://www.bio.fsu.edu/coleman_lab/our_labs_research.php

Recreational fishing is responsible for 23% of the harvest of overfished stocks in the United States, over 60% in the Gulf of Mexico. Both the Pew Oceans Report and the U. S. Commission on Ocean Policy Report identified overfishing as a serious problem for the health of the seas. Read the article from Science with letters to the editor from recreational fishing groups and from fishery scientists with our responses.

Hmmmmm.....???? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Speargun]

http://www.bio.fsu.edu/us_landings/

http://www.bio.fsu.edu/us_landings/ColemanSciencePrint.pdf

http://www.bio.fsu.edu/us_landings/ScienceLettersRecFishing.pdf

[rjnjupiter]

It sounds awful to start hunting these, but... they really are getting out of control. I have done over 600 dives per year in Jupiter for the past seven years. I feel like I know every Goliath out there. During the fall the population goes wild and we see as many as 50 on one sight. It is certain that wherever a Goliath lives there is a decrease of poulation otherwise. They are territorial and as they spread the territory gets well marked, almost every sight has one or two resident Goliaths. I will officially state here I support a controlled population growth as the FWC sees fit. Logically it would be easiest to issue tags and thin out the herd. If they do this be sure to have them allow a powerhead kill or we will end up with a lot of maimed fish and divers. I have hours of footage from the HOLE IN THE WALL, the MG111 wreck and several other sights in Jupiter that show an overpopulation of Goliaths and will be happy to share this with you or the FWC.

[sloticus]

I spotted one while rig diving this past summer of Dauphin Island in AL. I believe the bottom was about 80ft. It was my first time seeing one of these amazing fish in AL waters. It was huge ,looked lke a Volkswagon bug hovering next to the leg of the rig. I thought it was the leg of the rig until I got closer. It was not agressive and moved off when I approached. I shot a couple of red snapper on that dive and saw no sign of the big grouper.

[Nathan Florian]

Cystal River Art Reef , multiply locations
28-33'
8-10 GG, ranging from 50#-300#
summer of 2006
good luck getting a fish to the top on H&L
all seemed healty

Undisclosed Honey Hole 10-12 miles sw AR Reef
35'
5 GG 100-300#
summer 2006
will take fish from divers
all seemed healthy and not afraid to rush your speared fish

Crane, between hernado and Tarpon Springs
56'
2-3 GG to 300#
Good luck on H&L, nothing comes to the top
all seemed to be doing good, they usually hit the sand when we drop on the wreck

[Man-O-War]

I have done over 600 dives per year in Jupiter for the past seven years.

:confused: Thats like 2 tank dives EVERY DAY???

[ROBERTO REYES]

We have so few of them here, you guys need to export a few over.

[AristaKat]

I dive out of venice GC alomst every wreck like d-9,Bayronto, just about any wreck they are there I have been diving since 1995 and spots I used to find lobsters now all I find is GC . D-9 last dive had about 10-15 gc's on them , Almost every dive when spearing fish Gc's coming running after fish. They have become very aggressive and look for spearfishmen for free meals. I will consider FRA in the future.

[Grunt Hunter]

I have done approx 50 to 60 dives out of Miami and the upper Keys the last couple years and I have seen them everywhere from 20' deep on a nearshore reef to 130' down on the Spiegel Grove. They are plentiful and I would love to have a chance to spear one. They are definitely a food fish and it's not right to protect them over everything else. I have speared plenty of fish near Goliaths and have never had one steal a fish.

We dove the South County site out of St Petersburg last weekend and saw three to about 250-300lb.

[Nathan Florian]

I am counting the days until I take some off of one of my numbers in 35'. Its a ledge about 200' long, and I have seen as many as 7 in a group, all 100#-300#. Ray Odor, PM with me some info on some custom 1/2 graphite Riffe shafts, with the receiver end at 5/16 as soon as they open it up

[jfjf]

I am counting the days until I take some off of one of my numbers in 35'. Its a ledge about 200' long, and I have seen as many as 7 in a group, all 100#-300#. Ray Odor, PM with me some info on some custom 1/2 graphite Riffe shafts, with the receiver end at 5/16 as soon as they open it up


How high can you count?

[Nathan Florian]

Pretty high actually, I just hope we can take them legally in the near future and dont and dont have to count that high

[Carcharhinus]

I posted about this a couple of years ago. My impression is that there are quite a few places that could benefit from some culling of the Jewfish population, but nowhere west of Port St. Joe yet (unless someone knows of some specific spot.)
C. leucas

[brothertodd]

Memorial Day 07, I was on the White City Bridge off of Ceder Key, (about 60ft of water) there are always Goliath Grouper on this reef all times of year. This paticular day I was on the bottom a nice 32-36" AJ swam by, I landed a nice kill shot and he was stunned kind of floating tword the bottom and in a second 4 Goliath converge on my kill, they fought for it like a pack of wolfs and the biggest (probably 400 lb) fought off the others snatching my fish. The scary part was that as soon as I speared the AJ I droped my gun and was pulling the fish tword me, so I was with in 10 feet of it when the Goliath attacked. Once the Goliath chomped down on my fish with my spear still in it, It precedded to drag me across the ocean floor because I had wraped my line around my hand once. I was mad and afraid for my life all at the same time. A quick prayer was answered and the Goliath chomped down, pinched my spear out of the AJ and spit out my spear. I felt really lucky that I shot that AJ out in the Sand and not close to the wreck, That fish would have dragged me down into it's hole and I could have possibly lost my hand or died, I'm sure. I have a great respect for these fish and of all of God's creation, but I also believe that these creatures need a healthy respect for us humans as well. Its clear to me that they have no fear of divers. The more aggreassive ones will stalk divers and with experience I say; violently take your fish. I remember that the alligator ban was lifted after it was common place to see reports of "newsance alligators." FWC takes care of alligators when this top of the food chain preditor gets to comfortable with humans. So who can I call about the newsance Goliath Grouper on my favorite fishing spot. Sure they are a wonder to look at, but so are alligators. Those "individuals" who have become to aggressive and a danger to the public should be taken care of by FWC or Tag lottery system.