Update from the FRA on SAFMC meetings going on NOW.

[pelagic hunter]

The FRA is in attendance at the current SA Council meeting in NC.

Interestingly, Dr. Crabtree confirmed that the red snapper closure will INCREASE the uncertainty of recreational landings estimates. This increased uncertainty will lead to even LONGER rebuilding times.

The Council discussed the THIRTY YEARS that their scientists estimate Red Snapper will take to rebuild.

For a fish that has less than half the lifespan of a jewfish, that is a long time. Jewfish populations exploded in just ten years and are now at historically high levels, yet talk of harvest is TABOO. What the heck is going on?

Look to the SA Council's SSC (Science and Statistical Committee) for answers. This year, the SSC conspired to ignore Dr. Hester's report on the RS, because Dr. Hester dared to question the SSC's judgement and the stock assessment itself.

I personally witnessed an SSC member telling the SSC (after the recorder was turned off) that the SSC must figure out how keep Dr. Hester and Dr. Kenchigton from bringing scientific concerns to the SSC. Dr. Andy Cooper, an paid Ocean Conservancy advocate who is an associate professor at a canadian university, was the one leading the disgusting conversation.

Send and email to the SA Council demanding Dr. Cooper's removal from the SSC. safmc@safmc.net

I will call for this in the FRA public input today.

Watch it live at www.joinFRA.org. Click on the link for the SA meeting live.


Fighting for your fishing rights,


Dennis "Denny" O'Hern
Dennis O'Hern
Chief Executive Officer
Fishing Rights Alliance, Inc.
www.joinFRA.org

[jmiley]

The FRA is in attendance at the current SA Council meeting in NC.

Interestingly, Dr. Crabtree confirmed that the red snapper closure will INCREASE the uncertainty of recreational landings estimates. This increased uncertainty will lead to even LONGER rebuilding times.

The Council discussed the THIRTY YEARS that their scientists estimate Red Snapper will take to rebuild.

For a fish that has less than half the lifespan of a jewfish, that is a long time. Jewfish populations exploded in just ten years and are now at historically high levels, yet talk of harvest is TABOO. What the heck is going on?

Look to the SA Council's SSC (Science and Statistical Committee) for answers. This year, the SSC conspired to ignore Dr. Hester's report on the RS, because Dr. Hester dared to question the SSC's judgement and the stock assessment itself.

I personally witnessed an SSC member telling the SSC (after the recorder was turned off) that the SSC must figure out how keep Dr. Hester and Dr. Kenchigton from bringing scientific concerns to the SSC. Dr. Andy Cooper, an paid Ocean Conservancy advocate who is an associate professor at a canadian university, was the one leading the disgusting conversation.

Send and email to the SA Council demanding Dr. Cooper's removal from the SSC. safmc@safmc.net

I will call for this in the FRA public input today.

Watch it live at www.joinFRA.org. Click on the link for the SA meeting live.


Fighting for your fishing rights,


Dennis "Denny" O'Hern
Dennis O'Hern
Chief Executive Officer
Fishing Rights Alliance, Inc.
www.joinFRA.org

Go get em' Denny, that will show em':thumps:

[Gradyman]

Go get em' Denny, that will show em':thumps:

At least Denny is doing something for truth in science...Bret, what are you doing again????:scratch: Please enlighten us with your record of involvement for truth in science & balanced regulations! Please, no wordy bull...just a simple list will do...that way...just maybe...people may take you seriously.

Thanks Pelagic...maybe, just maybe, if the councils & Sci-Fi clubs get enough rope they might hang themselves.

[jmiley]

At least Denny is doing something for truth in science...Bret, what are you doing again????:scratch: Please enlighten us with your record of involvement for truth in science & balanced regulations! Please, no wordy bull...just a simple list will do...that way...just maybe...people may take you seriously.

Thanks Pelagic...maybe, just maybe, if the councils & Sci-Fi clubs get enough rope they might hang themselves.

Len,

Denny is right on the money calling for Dr. Cooper being thrown off of the SSC.:thumps:

I think everyone that has the audacity to disagree with Denny, the FRA and their kool aid drinkers should be smited, don't you?

[Gradyman]

Your list Bret...just the list...show me the list man!!!

[jmiley]

Your list Bret...just the list...show me the list man!!!

If my goal is to knock down a wall and I push real hard on the wall for 8 hours a day for 10 years but the wall never moves, does that mean I have accomplished any work?

Where are the results of these threats that the FRA likes to make?

Has the FRA ever had anyone that they tried getting fired or thrown off of a counsel or committee removed or fired?

The FRA is suing over AJ, yet the season is still closed, they along with the CCA sued over Red Grouper and Won, yet no one answered what it really accomplished, can you tell me what was accomplished by the big Red Grouper lawsuit win?

[PrincessSlaya!]

Go Denny!

[Gradyman]

Off subject Bret...show me your list. The focus of my question is directed at YOU...nobody elses efforts or lack of:

What have YOU done to press for truth in science and balanced regulations???

A simple list Bret...just a list.............................................. :sleep:

[jmiley]

Off subject Bret...show me your list. The focus of my question is directed at YOU...nobody elses efforts or lack of:

What have YOU done to press for truth in science and balanced regulations???

A simple list Bret...just a list.............................................. :sleep:

Len,

Ask Denny what I have done and how many thousands of dollars I have personally given to the FRA and helped raise for the FRA and the FSDA.

This was before I realizied the FRA is fatally flawed and IMO does more harm than good.

If you go knocking on doors and trying to lead people to Christ, if they don't respond the way you would like them to, do you make threats and call them names?

I would hope not because that is counter productive to the cause.

Just like the FRA always making threats and name calling when they don't get their way is counter productive to the cause.

What good can come from calling for Dr. Cooper to be thrown off of the SSC?

Especially when the FRA has pulled this before and nothing has happened, they wanted to get Steve Atran fired, yet Steve still has his job.

[jmiley]

Off subject Bret...show me your list. The focus of my question is directed at YOU...nobody elses efforts or lack of:

What have YOU done to press for truth in science and balanced regulations???

A simple list Bret...just a list.............................................. :sleep:

Len,

What have you done besides responding to a few email lists and writing some letters?

Why aren't you in Clewiston speaking about Permit?

I am sure a $35 FRA Membership really goes a long way in helping fight for your cause.

Show me your list

[inletsurf]

If my goal is to piss off everyone I can for 8 hours a day for 10 years but I end up lonely and angry, does that mean I have accomplished anything positive with my life?

You have a point. I really wish you can find a happy place Bret.

[Captrandy]

:lol:

[Gradyman]

...I really wish you can find a happy place Bret.

Me too Steve...good luck Bret.

[Louis Rossignol]

Ya know, guys, we're all supposed to be on the same team.

United we Stand,

Divided we Fall.

[RichT]

Ya know, guys, we're all supposed to be on the same team.

United we Stand,

Divided we Fall.

Louis,
You would think that some people would "get it", but unfortunately they don't.

[pirate_diver]

People get it...

But I'd be willing to bet my anything, that comparing RS closures, and rebuilding to Goliath Grouper...(or comparing any species to GG for that matter) is NOT going to help the situation. First off, it's a SEPERATE ISSUE. Second...well I'm not opening that can of worms. But if it were me, and people keep bringing up GG in any argument for low fish pops or lobster catches, or any other number of things...well the dead horse called...

[jmiley]

Louis,
You would think that some people would "get it", but unfortunately they don't.

pirate_diver has a good point, continually bringing up goliath grouper does not help the situation.

What is the FRA's current position on recreational spearing of Goliath Grouper?

[RichT]

People get it...

But I'd be willing to bet my anything, that comparing RS closures, and rebuilding to Goliath Grouper...(or comparing any species to GG for that matter) is NOT going to help the situation. First off, it's a SEPERATE ISSUE. Second...well I'm not opening that can of worms. But if it were me, and people keep bringing up GG in any argument for low fish pops or lobster catches, or any other number of things...well the dead horse called...


What???:confused:
What does Goliath grouper have to do with this thread???
The issue is Brett's constant attacks on members of this community who are simply trying to get a fair shake.
Are you saying you support Brett's constants attacks on this board?
If you are, then I dont feel we have anything more to say to each other...

[RichT]

pirate_diver has a good point, continually bringing up goliath grouper does not help the situation.

What is the FRA's current position on recreational spearing of Goliath Grouper?

Huh??
What does GG have to do with this thread???
As far as The FRA's position?
I just looked on the FRA website and there isnt a mention of it so I would suspect it is relatively low on the scale of prorities.
If you really did dive, and you really did care, you would know that there are for more pressing issues to be concerned with currently.

[jmiley]

Huh??
What does GG have to do with this thread???
As far as The FRA's position?
I just looked on the FRA website and there isnt a mention of it so I would suspect it is relatively low on the scale of prorities.
If you really did dive, and you really did care, you would know that there are for more pressing issues to be concerned with currently.

Denny brought up jewfish, I put it in bold so you can see it for yourself.

The FRA is in attendance at the current SA Council meeting in NC.

Interestingly, Dr. Crabtree confirmed that the red snapper closure will INCREASE the uncertainty of recreational landings estimates. This increased uncertainty will lead to even LONGER rebuilding times.

The Council discussed the THIRTY YEARS that their scientists estimate Red Snapper will take to rebuild.

For a fish that has less than half the lifespan of a jewfish, that is a long time. Jewfish populations exploded in just ten years and are now at historically high levels, yet talk of harvest is TABOO. What the heck is going on?

Look to the SA Council's SSC (Science and Statistical Committee) for answers. This year, the SSC conspired to ignore Dr. Hester's report on the RS, because Dr. Hester dared to question the SSC's judgement and the stock assessment itself.

I personally witnessed an SSC member telling the SSC (after the recorder was turned off) that the SSC must figure out how keep Dr. Hester and Dr. Kenchigton from bringing scientific concerns to the SSC. Dr. Andy Cooper, an paid Ocean Conservancy advocate who is an associate professor at a canadian university, was the one leading the disgusting conversation.

Send and email to the SA Council demanding Dr. Cooper's removal from the SSC. safmc@safmc.net

I will call for this in the FRA public input today.

Watch it live at www.joinFRA.org. Click on the link for the SA meeting live.


Fighting for your fishing rights,


Dennis "Denny" O'Hern
Dennis O'Hern
Chief Executive Officer
Fishing Rights Alliance, Inc.
www.joinFRA.org

[jmiley]

What???:confused:
What does Goliath grouper have to do with this thread???
The issue is Brett's constant attacks on members of this community who are simply trying to get a fair shake.
Are you saying you support Brett's constants attacks on this board?
If you are, then I dont feel we have anything more to say to each other...

Rich,

Post some of my so called attacks.

Keep drinking the kool aid.:thumps:

[inletsurf]

Bret, since you seem to know more than anyone about the politics of fishery management, why don't you consider starting your own fishing rights organization?
Have you ever considered this?

[jmiley]

Bret, since you seem to know more than anyone about the politics of fishery management, why don't you consider starting your own fishing rights organization?
Have you ever considered this?

We can discuss starting a group if you want to, you can be the Executive Director and can I be the spokesperson,how about calling it RSRA?

Recreational Spearing Rights Alliance

[Gradyman]

We can discuss starting a group if you want to, you can be the Executive Director and can I be the spokesperson,how about calling it RSRA?

Recreational Spearing Rights Alliance

Off subject again Brett...Inlet (Steve) NEVER mentioned anything about himself starting a new organization with or without YOU...he mentioned about YOU doing it since YOU think so differently then the ones already organized.

Why is it that everytime a question is asked about YOU...it's turned and directed elsewhere NOT about YOU...

YOU should run for office...YOU"RE missing YOUR calling!!

[awthacker]

We can discuss starting a group if you want to, you can be the Executive Director and can I be the spokesperson,how about calling it RSRA?

Recreational Spearing Rights Alliance

Is this a genuine post? You seem to play the devils advocate very well. This can be good for bringing the true issues to the table and brushing aside the irrelevant issues. However, from what I can tell, your posts aren't very well received. I'm just trying to understand your position. Are you trying to lead a new charge that doesn't include the FRA, or are you just stirring the pot? I think alot of people on this board would like to better understand your position.

[RichT]

Denny brought up jewfish, I put it in bold so you can see it for yourself.



His point could have been made better and he could have used any number of fish for an example but I believe his point was that GG populations are increasing rapidly,by everyones account.
Yet, the governements figures show that it would take 35 years for Red snapper to rebuild, with no fishing, and it grows much, much faster than a GG.

But a better question would be why would a guy who doesnt even dive care about what is happening on the East coast of Florida??

[RichT]

Is this a genuine post? You seem to play the devils advocate very well. This can be good for bringing the true issues to the table and brushing aside the irrelevant issues. However, from what I can tell, your posts aren't very well received. I'm just trying to understand your position. Are you trying to lead a new charge that doesn't include the FRA, or are you just stirring the pot? I think alot of people on this board would like to better understand your position.

You must be fairly new to SB? Bret Walley aka JMILLEY is trying to stir the pot and no other reason. He has been permanently banned from numerous other fishing/diving related forums and Ive ben told several other unrelated forums.
He has been compared to a "serial criminal" by moderators from this very board yet for some reason Tony chooses to let him have a place to spew his childish rhetoric.
Why? I have no idea.
He does not dive.
He often comes on here with old personal grudges trying to instigate fights and no other reason.
He does not care one bit about this sport.

[PrincessSlaya!]

HMMM - he is one of those guys?

[jmiley]

Off subject again Brett...Inlet (Steve) NEVER mentioned anything about himself starting a new organization with or without YOU...he mentioned about YOU doing it since YOU think so differently then the ones already organized.

Why is it that everytime a question is asked about YOU...it's turned and directed elsewhere NOT about YOU...

YOU should run for office...YOU"RE missing YOUR calling!!

Len,

YOU should start your own church, YOU remind me of Jim Jones.

[jmiley]

His point could have been made better and he could have used any number of fish for an example but I believe his point was that GG populations are increasing rapidly,by everyones account.
Yet, the governements figures show that it would take 35 years for Red snapper to rebuild, with no fishing, and it grows much, much faster than a GG.

But a better question would be why would a guy who doesnt even dive care about what is happening on the East coast of Florida??

Rich,

You asked who brought up jewfish, your boy Denny did.

No matter how much you kool aid drinkers jump up and down scream, holler and make threeats the people making the rules are going to do whatever they want to.

Do you really think they are worried about a "Chiuaha in a pit bull suit: (Your saying) FRA or the Better funded better organized enviro's and the Obama administration?

BTW did the kool aid drinkers get Dr. Cooper kicked off of the SSC?

[Surface Tension]

Len,

YOU should start your own church, YOU remind me of Jim Jones.

Well, that unsolicited attack of the man's faith pretty much confirms you have nothing intelligent to respond with.

Dave

[Gradyman]

Nuff said...Bret (Jmiley), I'm sorry man, but I call what I've done "tough love"...and apparently YOU still can't see what I'm talking about...
Once again YOU turn the question around to take the focus off YOU...why not just answer the question, stop pointing fingers and name calling...and help us all like you!!

[jmiley]

Well, that unsolicited attack of the man's faith pretty much confirms you have nothing intelligent to respond with.

Dave

Len doesn't mind taking shot's at me, does he get special treatment because of his faith?

If he does, I should get the same special treatment.

[jmiley]

Nuff said...Bret (Jmiley), I'm sorry man, but I call what I've done "tough love"...and apparently YOU still can't see what I'm talking about...
Once again YOU turn the question around to take the focus off YOU...why not just answer the question, stop pointing fingers and name calling...and help us all like you!!

Len,

This is just another HARP from you, I expected better from you, but IMO you have fallen short, again.

[awthacker]

BTW did the kool aid drinkers get Dr. Cooper kicked off of the SSC?

I agree that calling for someones job may be counter-productive; Just as your attacks are. The FRA, however has good intentions. I'm not certain the same is true about yourself.

[jmiley]

I agree that calling for someones job may be counter-productive; Just as your attacks are. The FRA, however has good intentions. I'm not certain the same is true about yourself.

Since you think the FRA is great, you should send them some money, a paultry $35 won't do much, put your money where your mouth is and send them at least a few hundred dollars.

How much of your hard earned money have you sent the FRA?

[Gradyman]

Len,

This is just another HARP from you, I expected better from you, but IMO you have fallen short, again.

Well, again I'm sorry Bret, I hoped my HARP would be more like a wake-up slap across your face...I'm trying to help you wake up from your bitter lonely delusion! I'll add you to my prayer journal.

[jmiley]

Well, again I'm sorry Bret, I hoped my HARP would be more like a wake-up slap across your face...I'm trying to help you wake up from your bitter lonely delusion! I'll add you to my prayer journal.

I don't think you know what I meant by HARP.

If you are sincere about adding me to your prayer journal, I appreciate it.:thumps:

[Gradyman]

...If you are sincere about adding me to your prayer journal, I appreciate it.:thumps:

Yes, I don't "joke" about that...here's the page I wrote this morning.

I just noticed the one for Rob's freinds son up top...Luke got home safe...yea!!!

[jmiley]

Yes, I don't "joke" about that...here's the page I wrote this morning.

I just noticed the one for Rob's freinds son up top...Luke got home safe...yea!!!

Len,

Thanks, I appreciate the concern and I am happy you wouldn't make a joke about such an important matter.