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Old 08-26-2017, 05:47 PM   #16
kwyoungspear
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

I don't know about all that. My dad says there were never THAT many nassaus in the keys (then again he started diving in the early 80's when fish traps were a big problem). I see them quite frequently on the reef and inshore, not as many as Red Grouper or Black Grouper but still. I've only seen Tiger Grouper a few times in the keys, and I know that has nothing to do with overfishing.

I think after being closed for 20 years you would see a huge rebound like Goliath Grouper, even if you account for poaching and "incidental bycatch" but you haven't because they simply weren't even here in high numbers like other fish in the keys.
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:46 PM   #17
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

whats the difference between federal waters and state?
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:59 PM   #18
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
And why do you think nassaus are gone?
Off Ft Lauderdale, they are gone. Back in the late 70's and early 80's I would see them all the time on the first and second reef, small and big ones. Now, I cant tell you when the last time I saw a Nassau on those reefs.

But same with cuda's. Up through the 90's I would swim through huge schools of cuda when diving the wrecks off Lauderdale and pompano, plus they were all over the reefs. Now you are lucky if you see 2 on the wrecks.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:42 PM   #19
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

I've only ever seen one Nassau and it was last year in Boca on a popular dive spot.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:14 PM   #20
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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Originally Posted by clambake 50 View Post
whats the difference between federal waters and state?
Federal is completely closed at this point. State waters are open with a 12" minimum, 1 fish maxiumum. State will surely close after the September FWC meeting. Get one soon, they may be closed for a long time.

http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/r...ional/hogfish/
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:31 PM   #21
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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Originally Posted by Jason7654 View Post
Federal is completely closed at this point. State waters are open with a 12" minimum, 1 fish maxiumum. State will surely close after the September FWC meeting. Get one soon, they may be closed for a long time.

http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/r...ional/hogfish/
The link you posted says: Effective August 24th, 2017
Gulf State Waters = 14" minimum five per harvester
Atlantic State Waters = 16" one per harvester
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:58 AM   #22
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

Hogfish is now 16" to the fork. I'd expect it to close in State waters after the next meeting as well.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:17 PM   #23
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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whats the difference between federal waters and state?
In the Atlantic federal waters are over 3 miles offshore, state waters are within 3 miles of shore. In the gulf its 9. But now the surrounding waters of the keys when it comes to hog fish is all managed under Atlantic regulations.

That's what really annoys me. Commercial guys in the keys need to have 2 permits to fish areas only a few miles apart, but now they want to manage just one fish in "the gulf" with Atlantic rules and regulations. Shooting hog fish on a gulf permit used to be great since there are more hogs and bigger hogs in the gulf, AND you didn't have to pay any quota like you do for groupers. Now those guys are stuck with a 25 pound trip limit which they can get in minutes and have no shot at making money. Obviously the ecosystem is more important than a few people make a couple bucks, but it's bull shit how they want to be nit picky about what the gulf is and isn't.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:53 PM   #24
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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Originally Posted by kwyoungspear View Post
In the Atlantic federal waters are over 3 miles offshore, state waters are within 3 miles of shore. In the gulf its 9. But now the surrounding waters of the keys when it comes to hog fish is all managed under Atlantic regulations.

That's what really annoys me. Commercial guys in the keys need to have 2 permits to fish areas only a few miles apart, but now they want to manage just one fish in "the gulf" with Atlantic rules and regulations. Shooting hog fish on a gulf permit used to be great since there are more hogs and bigger hogs in the gulf, AND you didn't have to pay any quota like you do for groupers. Now those guys are stuck with a 25 pound trip limit which they can get in minutes and have no shot at making money. Obviously the ecosystem is more important than a few people make a couple bucks, but it's bull shit how they want to be nit picky about what the gulf is and isn't.
Dude no offense by ***** (excuse my language) commercial fishermen. I understand that people want fish in restaurants and super markets, but clearly over-fishing is the direct cause of depleted fish populations. It is not a sustainable business or activity. Literally its only a few boats out at sea that are taking over 80% of the fish.

Just look at China and Japan and how they are struggling with the long-term effects of over-fishing. I think all commercial fishing should be banned. I don't care if a fish fillet will cost me $100 in a restaurant. Its all good since I could go out and get my own fish. We as a civilization have lost the privilege of having commercial fisherman.

I am only 24 years old and in my 15 years of being in and around the ocean in Miami, I have seen INCREDIBLE depletions of fish populations. I do not see the same numbers of fish when I used to be younger. The cause for this is not the average guy who takes his boat out on a sunday with his family a couple times a year. Its the commercial guys who hunt for lobster EVERY NIGHT sweeping over the same spot at least three times to make sure they "get them all."

A couple weeks ago I was at the Blue Green Hotel in Marathon sitting dockside drinking a beer on my vessel at night. I was preparing my gear to fish the next day and in the 2 hours I was there (10pm-12am) at least 3 commercials guys swept that area right in front of me with a bully net for lobsters. It was at that moment when I realized why the past years I have struggled to reach bag limits on mini season. This was one spot, gulf side, and 3 commercial boats sweeping lobsters in 2 hours. I came back the next night to prepare gear again and BOOM the same exact thing happened. No wonder lobster numbers/sizes suck now.

So thanks commercial fishing..for ruining it for everyone.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:46 PM   #25
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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Originally Posted by FalconSpearo View Post
Dude no offense by ***** (excuse my language) commercial fishermen. I understand that people want fish in restaurants and super markets, but clearly over-fishing is the direct cause of depleted fish populations. It is not a sustainable business or activity. Literally its only a few boats out at sea that are taking over 80% of the fish.

Just look at China and Japan and how they are struggling with the long-term effects of over-fishing. I think all commercial fishing should be banned. I don't care if a fish fillet will cost me $100 in a restaurant. Its all good since I could go out and get my own fish. We as a civilization have lost the privilege of having commercial fisherman.

I am only 24 years old and in my 15 years of being in and around the ocean in Miami, I have seen INCREDIBLE depletions of fish populations. I do not see the same numbers of fish when I used to be younger. The cause for this is not the average guy who takes his boat out on a sunday with his family a couple times a year. Its the commercial guys who hunt for lobster EVERY NIGHT sweeping over the same spot at least three times to make sure they "get them all."

A couple weeks ago I was at the Blue Green Hotel in Marathon sitting dockside drinking a beer on my vessel at night. I was preparing my gear to fish the next day and in the 2 hours I was there (10pm-12am) at least 3 commercials guys swept that area right in front of me with a bully net for lobsters. It was at that moment when I realized why the past years I have struggled to reach bag limits on mini season. This was one spot, gulf side, and 3 commercial boats sweeping lobsters in 2 hours. I came back the next night to prepare gear again and BOOM the same exact thing happened. No wonder lobster numbers/sizes suck now.

So thanks commercial fishing..for ruining it for everyone.
As a commercial fisherman, I do take a offense. However, I'll forgive you.

I think you are a little confused on the issue at hand. Hog fish is taken predominantly by spearfisherman, recreational spearfisherman at that.

As for lobstering, I posted earlier this year with the average catch data by user group. 540 trappers caught around 70% of the Lobster in 2014 (5 million pounds).
209 Commercial Divers (252 lic. total) caught 3.6% of the Lobster in 2014 (under 200,000 pounds).
327 Bullynetters caught 3.5%.
And finally 156,000 permit holding recreational divers *40,000-63,000 in
monroe county* caught about 23% of the lobster (500,000 pounds in mini season, and 1.1 million pounds after)

I do agree though, it is crazy how many bullnetters are out there, I had no idea until I was driving home late on one engine and saw a bunch of guys in some areas I dive. I'm sorry to hear that you have a hard time catching lobster though. I thought it was a great year and had no trouble getting my commercial limit for the first week and was catching a very good amount after that until Irma came through.

Additionally, I think you are confusing the problems in Japan and China to the problems we have in Florida. This is a fact, there are less commercial fisherman in the Florida Keys than ever before. Now look around at how many charter boats are out there. They too are out there every day and in much higher numbers than commercial fisherman. Most of the commercial fisherman you see in the Florida Keys are yellow tailing. I don't know what it's like in Miami, but I guarantee there are not many commercial fisherman left, I know there are tons of charter captains though. Basically, your statement that "only a few boats out at sea that are taking over 80% of the fish" in Florida is wrong.


Here is some more data from Noaa for the SOUTH ATLANTIC (East Florida and the Keys, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina), THE GULF OF MEXICO IS NOT INCLUDED.

Landings (lbs of fish, x 1,000)
All Recreational Landings = 35,568
All Commercial Landings = 48,518
Commercial Landings of Species Also Sought After By Anglers = 37,546

Now, I'm not saying that the laissez faire mentality that was the norm in fishing is appropriate, it's lead to many problems for the ecosystem. I believe stricter bag limits and trip limits for commercial fisherman should be applied, larger size limits that allow all fish to spawn, and closed seasons that protect spawning fish. I'm glad fish traps have been banned, and the moves that have been made against gill netting and longlining. The fishing practices used by the countries you mentioned above are down right disgusting. I think corporate fishing is terrible. However, to say all commercial fishing should be banned is an asinine statement based off of emotions. It's easy to blame one group for all the problems, but in reality it is much bigger than that.


I'm a commercial diver. My dad and I go out by ourselves on a center console boat and dive all day when the government and weather allow us and get what we can and sell all of our fish to local restaurants and small scale fish markets (shout out to Eaton Fish). **** me, right?
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Last edited by kwyoungspear; 09-19-2017 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:17 PM   #26
FalconSpearo
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwyoungspear View Post
As a commercial fisherman, I do take a offense. However, I'll forgive you.

I think you are a little confused on the issue at hand. Hog fish is taken predominantly by spearfisherman, recreational spearfisherman at that.

As for lobstering, I posted earlier this year with the average catch data by user group. 540 trappers caught around 70% of the Lobster in 2014 (5 million pounds).
209 Commercial Divers (252 lic. total) caught 3.6% of the Lobster in 2014 (under 200,000 pounds).
327 Bullynetters caught 3.5%.
And finally 156,000 permit holding recreational divers *40,000-63,000 in the problems going on but in reality it's much more than that.
monroe county* caught about 23% of the lobster (500,000 pounds in mini season, and 1.1 million pounds after)

I do agree though, it is crazy how many bullnetters are out there, I had no idea until I was driving home late on one engine and saw a bunch of guys in some areas I dive. I'm sorry to hear that you have a hard time catching lobster though. I thought it was a great year and had no trouble getting my commercial limit for the first week and was catching a very good amount after that until Irma came through.

Additionally, I think you are confusing the problems in Japan and China to the problems we have in Florida. This is a fact, there are less commercial fisherman in the Florida Keys than ever before. Now look around at how many charter boats are out there. They too are out there every day and in much higher numbers than commercial fisherman. Most of the commercial fisherman you see in the Florida Keys are yellow tailing. I don't know what it's like in Miami, but I guarantee there are not many commercial fisherman left, I know there are tons of charter captains though. Basically, your statement that "only a few boats out at sea that are taking over 80% of the fish" in Florida is wrong.


Here is some more data from Noaa for the SOUTH ATLANTIC (East Florida and the Keys, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina), THE GULF OF MEXICO IS NOT INCLUDED.

Landings (lbs of fish, x 1,000)
All Recreational Landings = 35,568
All Commercial Landings = 48,518
Commercial Landings of Species Also Sought After By Anglers = 37,546

Now, I'm not saying that the laissez faire mentality that was the norm in fishing is appropriate, it's lead to many problems for the ecosystem. I believe stricter bag limits and trip limits for commercial fisherman should be applied, larger size limits that allow all fish to spawn, and closed seasons that protect spawning fish. I'm glad fish traps have been banned, and the moves that have been made against gill netting and longlining. The fishing practices used by the countries you mentioned above are down right disgusting. I think corporate fishing is terrible. However, to say all commercial fishing should be banned is an asinine statement based off of emotions. It's easy to blame one group for all the problems, but in reality it is much bigger than that.


I'm a commercial diver. My dad and I go out by ourselves on a center console boat and dive all day when the government and weather allow us and get what we can and sell all of our fish to local restaurants and small scale fish markets (shout out to Eaton Fish). **** me, right?
Hey I appreciate that you took your time to formulate a thorough response. After reading it, I think we are all a little at fault here. I understand you have to put food on your table. At the end of the day a job is a job, I get it. I just think that looking at the trend of fish numbers receding, soon, my kids will only read about black grouper in books and my grandkids will never taste a snapper lol. I love the ocean, everything about it. I think with the Earth over populating, we are just threatening the fauna and flora more so every day. It scares me to think that in 5-10-15 years, many species could be virtually extinct and its all OUR fault, both recreational as well as commercial fishermen's alike.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:06 AM   #27
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

I have read a little bit about what has been said here and without taking sides, it is very obvious that FWC needs to take much stronger action with respect to all species. I have been scuba diving for 40 years and have witnessed the decline of all ocean species. It is sad with what has been happening in our oceans and like what has been said on previous posts, soon our reefs will be totally barren with no chance of any comeback by any species unless we take much stronger action NOW. I apologize to everyone about my rant but I am extremely concerned.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:51 PM   #28
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

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I have read a little bit about what has been said here and without taking sides, it is very obvious that FWC needs to take much stronger action with respect to all species. I have been scuba diving for 40 years and have witnessed the decline of all ocean species. It is sad with what has been happening in our oceans and like what has been said on previous posts, soon our reefs will be totally barren with no chance of any comeback by any species unless we take much stronger action NOW. I apologize to everyone about my rant but I am extremely concerned.
Yes I totally agree. I get so emotional and make irrational arguments because I cant contain my frustration. I'm only 24 and I want to continue to experience everything the Ocean has to offer. I want to share these experiences with my future friends and family.

FWC seriously needs to step up, we need stricter regulations and harsher punishments. I know from experience sometimes people make mistakes (11" inch hog looked legal" etc.) and to avoid this problem we need stricter regulations for example 20" hog min size. Poachers are still out there. I call for harsher punishments for poachers.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:57 PM   #29
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Re: No More Hog Fish till 2018

I think there should be a bag limit of 1 fish per person per day for a lot of species. Also sizes need to increases. Groupers should be 30 inch min for black. 26 inch min for red. 16 inch min for mangrove "grey" snappers. Etc. It should be such a crazy min size that no one can "make a mistake" because lets say you shoot a 29 inch black grouper, thats still a monster that lived a long time and reproduced plenty. You get my point? Technically these min. sizes take into account mistakes. If you shoot and kill a 15 inch grey snapper, thats still really good! Thats a big grey snapper. FWC should have discretion to fine. I think if you have a cooler and every fish is legal except for one that under by one inch you should be fine. But if you're clearly hunting smaller sizes expecting leniency then no, you should get fined.
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