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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-05-2017, 02:59 AM   #31
Azure Recluse
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
I have owned a lot of guns....

Some I liked some not so much, all for different reasons. Not saying there is anything wrong with the guns but, just I didn't like them for personal reasons.

Guns I own and shoot now and happy with:

Aimrite no frills 120cm carbon with Meandros mech.

Roisub Michelangelo115 Demo 3

Abellan Albacore 130


The review of the Albacore 130 was spot on! Best shooting gun I have ever owned except for one that Phil H made for me few years back.

I am really liking the Roisub. Its a fun gun to shoot with a lot of power in its 8mm shaft. The loading system is really unique and very simple even with having to load 2 bands and the shaft line.

One brand of gun I own (3 of them actually) are going to consignment sales soon.

For me personally the Bluetec guns haven't lived up to the hype. I used them last year on a trip and just couldn't like them. The flat thin body style is really difficult to use in current. Current plays a big part of that gun's performance. Because it is lighter, flatter and wider, any current has a dramatic effect on how the gun handles and if it gets caught it will sweep and make you miss shots.

The pic is from my first time shooting the Abellan. Shaft used was a GR Tarr Red Tide 8mm double flopper. The are the most underrated and best shafts on the market right now. I'm sold on them as the workmanship is second to none even the Hunt shafts.

Now if Red Tide will release their gun line, I will be shooting one of them also.
Alot of good information there from a seasoned spearo

Still not sold on rollers and am interested in testing out some invert rollers. One things for sure though... Abellan Albacore 130 is the way to go for bluewater. There are too many top spearos using and recommending them.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:08 AM   #32
2fishin2
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

The Roisub I am using is an inverted roller of type. Two large 18mm bands are for pretension and 4 other 16mm bands for more power. The shafts have multiple tabs for different power setting....more than normal shafts. The bands are actually loaded under the shaft between the shaft and tube.

There is a lot of power in this gun. Like said before if I can put a 8mm shaft completely through the thick skull of a Giant Trevally, that's a true test of power. I did shoot a small Dogtooth with it but for the big guys pushing 100lbs and over, the 115 model is just too short and lacks enough range.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:21 AM   #33
spearq8
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by apeogre View Post
Woody, if you want one of the Red tide guns that they have on their instagram, you can get them. Alper from Budak spearguns makes them for GR. They've got a few different rear handle guns as well as a couple of rollers that aren't on the website. I've got a 110 and it measures 125 cm long. You can get them custom painted as well.

Check them out at www.budakonline.com. I've found contacting him on his instagram is really easy. @budak_spearguns
Looks like an interesting gun, very similar lines to an Abellan. Also seems to have a rotated handle which is a plus. I would worry about the trigger, with big power the trigger sears are bound to scratch. I know it says 316 heat treated ... but 316 cannot be hardened with heat treatment. That is a gun that could use a double roller trigger!

As for the shafts ... the ones I see on the website use wired fins ... I would avoid those like the plague. Salvimar used this method and was a complete failure. The wishbone will slip if you touch it with your next band ... just an absolute PIA. Loading bands is like walking on eggshells ... I hate those wired fins!
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:09 AM   #34
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

I'm am still dialing my in my 110. So far so good. It's setup with a 7mm 140cm shaft. I am using 2 14 mm green salvimar bands cut to 350% but I feel like there's more room for bandstrech. As far as holding the gun, the rotated handle is very comfy. I don't have any floats for testing, so I use fish. It seems to kill fish just fine. I dive with less than 10 meters of vis and the biggest fish being no bigger than 7 lbs if you're really lucky so it fits the bill nicely.

With the wire fins, I haven't had any problem with them are angled back and I'm using the wishbone line he hasn't on his website with no problems of slipping or even remotely coming loose.
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:52 PM   #35
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Using the 14.5 mm small ID rubbers, loading even a double roller is pretty quick.

I think rollers using two 14.5mm small ID rubbers offers a lot of advantage over 1 thick 16mm or 18mm band. Often with the thicker bands there is a multiple stage process where you have to flip the gun over a couple times.

With two 14.5 rubbers, no need to flip the gun over, you can just load like a traditional gun, albeit with a load assist to get started and a little extra oomph.

Loading the gun pictured below takes a fair amount of strength at 380% stretch, but takes less than a minute and its a very simple procedure: 1. hook load assist around wishbone; 2. load to rest tab; 3. load to back tab. No flipping the gun over, no complications, no releasing bands after shots, just using a load assist and a traditional load process.


My favorite advantage of any roller over traditional guns is that I can see the shaft the entire time from when I fire to when I hit or miss the fish. The lack of recoil and the clean sight picture without bands flying up from the gun allow great tracking.

This makes a huge difference in dialing in your accuracy for longer shots and learning from your mistakes (you can actually see why/where you missed a shot)
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Old 06-08-2017, 03:42 PM   #36
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Woodwardsan, Those Roisubs look cool. I never seen one in person. That Band on top, does that thing stretch as well or is just a fixed length for grabbing the bands easier? Does yours have a Kicker band or it only using the pullied bands and a string on top?
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:36 PM   #37
Diving Gecko
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Woodwardsan, Those Roisubs look cool. I never seen one in person. That Band on top, does that thing stretch as well or is just a fixed length for grabbing the bands easier? Does yours have a Kicker band or it only using the pullied bands and a string on top?
The Roisub range of setups can be a bit confusion but 2fishin2 seems to have a Demo 3 model. That means no grabber/booster band. Demo 3 only has dyneema on top. So, should load like this: one pretensioned set of rubber where you grab the dyneema wishbone on top in the first go and load that onto the shaft (like "normally'), and then two sets of bands more that you load afterwards but here you pull the rear ends of the bands towards their attachment point on the rear end of the gun. Those bands are already tied to the inverted dyneema wishbone at the same point as the pretensioned set.

When 2fishin2 says the bands are on top (below the shaft), it's because Roisub's feature of the "rear wishbones" of the 2nd and 3rd set of bands running on top of the barrel just under the shaft. As you grab those bands and pull backwards, the rear band "wishbone" will slip into the "Shark" holding thingey pretty much by itself. This means you don't have to turn the gun around - all the loading happens from the top side like a regular bandgun and probably feels like loading a three-banded gun in that regard.

Maybe this shows it better:
http://www.roisub.net/user-guide-demo3.html

If any of you DIY wood guys like the idea, you can buy Roisub parts for wood guns, too. Also, if you like the idea of not having to turn the gun around in loading - you can obtain that by cutting notches in the top of the blank. Like this guy who set out to prove you can build a functioning gun in 8H effective build time... (he took a bit longer though):
http://uvjaegeren.dk/forum/4-diy-gor...start=15#14643
(He is now the Pathos and Roisub distributor in Denmark, btw)

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 06-08-2017 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:35 AM   #38
spearq8
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

I think if there is a roller design that will out shoot a good classic setup, it will come in the form of an inverted roller. Somehow the shaft seems much more stable with an invert roller ... maybe the movement of the rubber as it moves rapidly on top and then rotates around and over causes some inertia that is hurts shaft stability in a classic roller. However I do thing that with invert rollers there still is a problem which a classic roller has and that is that when you power up the gun, the shaft starts to dive. I think that is the only problem I can see that is holding things back ... this needs to be resolved. I haven't tried the Roisub invert rollers, but maybe they have fixed this?
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Old 06-09-2017, 06:11 AM   #39
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Woodwardsan, Those Roisubs look cool. I never seen one in person. That Band on top, does that thing stretch as well or is just a fixed length for grabbing the bands easier? Does yours have a Kicker band or it only using the pullied bands and a string on top?
There are more options...you have a standard Demo 3 with only dyneema on the top. Than there is fusion Demo3 (fkddemo3) including two short 16mm kicker bands with dyneema inside to limit the stretch. This setup is much more powerfull than basic demo3 system.
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Old 06-09-2017, 06:16 AM   #40
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post

There is a lot of power in this gun. Like said before if I can put a 8mm shaft completely through the thick skull of a Giant Trevally, that's a true test of power. I did shoot a small Dogtooth with it but for the big guys pushing 100lbs and over, the 115 model is just too short and lacks enough range.
Hi, You can maybe try to upgrade the normal demo 3 to - fusion demo 3. You only need two short 16mm rubbers with internal dyneema and 2x 110cm 2,5mm dyneema line. The pretension with the fusion system is very strong, you can hardly load the gun. With the basic demo 3 system, loading the gun is easy and pure pleasure. You can also consider to change the 21mm rubber for 2x 16mm. Than You would have demo4. With that configuration and a 8,5mm shaft You would gain some serious power.

I will post some pics of my roisub, plan to go next week to the pool to test the fusion system on my demo3.
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Old 06-09-2017, 06:20 AM   #41
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I think if there is a roller design that will out shoot a good classic setup, it will come in the form of an inverted roller. Somehow the shaft seems much more stable with an invert roller ... maybe the movement of the rubber as it moves rapidly on top and then rotates around and over causes some inertia that is hurts shaft stability in a classic roller. However I do thing that with invert rollers there still is a problem which a classic roller has and that is that when you power up the gun, the shaft starts to dive. I think that is the only problem I can see that is holding things back ... this needs to be resolved. I haven't tried the Roisub invert rollers, but maybe they have fixed this?
When I was in the pool with my Roisub 115 a week ago, the thing was shooting center but little high. 2cm on 5 and 6m. I pushed the setup for higher loads this week and will soon go to a pool to see how it shoots. I will writte a short report.
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Old 07-28-2018, 10:17 PM   #42
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

The C4 Urukuay 120 was nothing special and I have good experience with that gun and it really needs quite a bit of modification to shoot well. With the Dr. Dark ... looks like it has a baby speargun in its belly that wants to come out. But it shot dead on and very flat to about 5 meters with only 2 bands. I helped him mod the handle with epoxy putty and will try to push the band strength today to see if things are still under control. The gun is very accurate but I felt the bands were too easy to load and can gain some power.[/quote]

Spearq8-
Did you ever try that MR DARK with shorter bands? I cant get that design out of my head. It looks so crazy it might work well.

Thanks for sharing all the information!
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:41 AM   #43
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Makely View Post
The C4 Urukuay 120 was nothing special and I have good experience with that gun and it really needs quite a bit of modification to shoot well. With the Dr. Dark ... looks like it has a baby speargun in its belly that wants to come out. But it shot dead on and very flat to about 5 meters with only 2 bands. I helped him mod the handle with epoxy putty and will try to push the band strength today to see if things are still under control. The gun is very accurate but I felt the bands were too easy to load and can gain some power.
Spearq8-
Did you ever try that MR DARK with shorter bands? I cant get that design out of my head. It looks so crazy it might work well.

Thanks for sharing all the information![/quote]


I tried the Mr. Dark that a friend brought along and it shot very accurately with the setup he had. But the setup he had was very low power and I saw a video of his where he stoned a large dogtooth from good range ... but then lost it on the way up as the flopper did not have good penetration and just slid off. Testing his setup in the pool (I think was using a 7.5 or 8mm shaft) he had very poor results on the penetration test. We tried adding power to the bands, but that hurt accuracy. I think if he mods the handle he would be able to add power and get good accuracy. I really did not like the handle of the C4 as it just didn't feel stable and secure. It is highly adjustable but it just never felt stable. I have a lot of experience with the C4 Urukay 120 as well and with that gun I finally did get it to shoot extremely well. I had planned to post a big review on that gun, but lost the test footage due to a HDD crash. Maybe will redo that test again. The C4 guns easily have the best Carbon Fiber work of any speargun out there. The also have a very good trigger that uses a front roller. They used to have a polynesian line release (outside the mech) and that was not very good, but have since changed their trigger and now the line release is in box (much better). I ended up shooting the U120 at full power with 3 x 14.7mm bands at 380% and using an 8.5mm shaft. The default setup the gun came with was 3 x 17.5mm bands on a 6.5mm shaft
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:00 PM   #44
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Thanks for the information!
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:08 PM   #45
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Obviously you only handled it in the pool but any thoughts about how the shape would help or hinder tracking fish in a real world situation with current, swell, etc?
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