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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 09-24-2019, 01:25 AM   #31
popgun pete
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
FYI the 110 model costs about 1800€. One of my dive buddies inquired about those guns.
Nearly 2000 bucks! Wow, that is some serious money.
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Old 09-24-2019, 02:50 AM   #32
Diving Gecko
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Re: Briante spearguns

I guess the idea behind the plastic shaft guides is that they can be changed out easily according the shaft diameter which would help the shaft and trigger always being aligned.
I agree with Majd, that it's cool to see the SS inserts and in terms of high handles, the Briante looks good.

The reel on a big bluewater gun, Kavachi has a point... But I guess they can bend some metal for a trigger guard and mount it where the reel is now (the rear of the reel functions as the trigger guard as it is now).

One thing that caught my eye is that all of the guns have this raised profile in the middle long along the bottom with bands on each side of it. If, just if, friction between band is an issue - and I have no clue if it is - then there's not much to be done about it on the Briante. On e.g. the Gladiator and Carbonia they use a spacer plate at the pulleys to separate the bands. On the other hand, the Alemanni rollers don't either, I think (except for the demultiplied guns). So, maybe it's just that demultiplied guns can space the rubbers and rollers don't?

I would be interested in knowing if it is a carbon skinned wood gun. I actually think it is and nothing wrong with that. E.g. the CF Gladiators are, too. Probably the Alemanni CF guns as well?

Just sharing some random pics from the "Briante folder".

High handle:



They seem to have made, at least, one travel gun, too:


With a wood core? Maybe they all are. Would make sense at this point as composite molds can take quite an investvest in time and/or money. Also, you clearly see the cross section shape here:


Some hardware:



And some tacky "marketing":

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 09-24-2019 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:31 AM   #33
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Re: Briante spearguns

thanks for sharing DG, thats some industrial grade gun porn there! Going head to head with Alemanni, and with what Gerard Graves has been doing with Alemannis in the South Pacific the last coupla years tho, does invite some serious scrutiny

that travel gun in peli case image is bound to move some product in the cashed up end of town. and give an unsuspecting TSA agent kittens when they open it

reckon the jury is still out though on how a lump of plastic attached thru a carbon skin with a couple of self tappers constitutes Very High Quality Standard. Guess Alemanni have had the arena to themselves for awhile tho, so bound to be a whole lot more bluewater hunting hardware comin thru. BUT have they got the secret sauce that puts a ten mil shaft right thru a gigantic bonito ???

and not jealous at all of G‘s full Alemanni armory to chase pelagics with
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:01 AM   #34
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Re: Briante spearguns

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thanks for sharing DG, thats some industrial grade gun porn there! Going head to head with Alemanni, and with what Gerard Graves has been doing with Alemannis in the South Pacific the last coupla years tho, does invite some serious scrutiny

that travel gun in peli case image is bound to move some product in the cashed up end of town. and give an unsuspecting TSA agent kittens when they open it

reckon the jury is still out though on how a lump of plastic attached thru a carbon skin with a couple of self tappers constitutes Very High Quality Standard. Guess Alemanni have had the arena to themselves for awhile tho, so bound to be a whole lot more bluewater hunting hardware comin thru. BUT have they got the secret sauce that puts a ten mil shaft right thru a gigantic bonito ???

Also, how long is the longest Briante?
and not jealous at all of G‘s full Alemanni armory to chase pelagics with
I agree, it does look like porn but there are 1-2 pics on their website that, for me, leaves something to be desired in the CF craftsmanship. But I have also seen a brand new C4 gun in a shop with some serious sanding marks on it and 400-500 euro fins from quite a few brands with tons of pin holes in them. Pinholes and sanding marks are pretty much just cosmetic issues, but e.g. the car modding market or the yachting one would likely not be able to get away with what the spearo brands are these days.
I think we are still an easy target group. Slap some CF on a product and we start drooling.
Actually, it's not that easy getting a pinhole free surface and maybe even harder on a wood core that might be outgassing in a vacuum bag? But a lot of times, a proper top coat can fill them in. And at 1800 euros, I hope Briante have sorted out their finishing process by now.

I actually feel half bad writing the above as I wish Briante all the best and I really like their out of the box thinking. I just wanna have someone tell me they have seen the guns and shot them and they are cool in real life, too

As for the sizes, the B3 Pacific is their big bluewater pulley gun which they state can shoot 9.5-10mm shafts and comes in 120-150cm. Counting bands on it, it looks to have a battery of four (with one of them reversing through the stock) plus an optional kicker on the top.
Looking at the shape of the stock, it doesn't seem to taper near the front, so even if they are made in a mold (I still speculate, they are skinned woodies), they could just cut one to size or not lay it up the full length of the mold.

BTW, they say their B2 TIRRENO comes in 70-110cm.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 09-24-2019 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:36 AM   #35
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Briante spearguns

Here is a picture of the Vastator model that supposedly is able to shoot a 10 mm shaft. Note the trigger guard and lack of reel. I suppose this one is purposely built for a breakaway setup.
I certainly love the butt plate on the handle, that is a neat feature. The handle overall seems nice apart from the finger grooves since not all our hands have the same size.



I made a comment a while ago about a possible pool test and expressed my interest in seeing some footage, he answered “and at this point wouldn’t it be better to see how it shoots at sea with a 10mm shaft at 8mt?”

I can’t wait to see that footage!
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:38 AM   #36
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
The Briante “B3 Pacific” is basically a one and a half band gun if you neglect the optional top deck band anchored a short distance back from the muzzle. There is the long pre-stretched body window wrapped band and two bands that wrap on the wide curved hook anchor point in front of the reel and grip handle, one a full wrap around and the other with a wishbone[EDIT]
Hey Pete,
I think you might have missed a band.
I think it has one reverse band and three regulars - plus the optional kicker on top. So, I guess a 2-2.25 band gun not counting the kicker which looks perhaps like a 0.75 band. I guess, we can call it 3-band gun, perhaps slightly more depending on the amount of prestretch.


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Old 09-24-2019, 07:44 AM   #37
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
Here is a picture of the Vastator model that supposedly is able to shoot a 10 mm shaft. Note the trigger guard and lack of reel. I suppose this one is purposely built for a breakaway setup.
I certainly love the butt plate on the handle, that is a neat feature. The handle overall seems nice apart from the finger grooves since not all our hands have the same size.



I made a comment a while ago about a possible pool test and expressed my interest in seeing some footage, he answered “and at this point wouldn’t it be better to see how it shoots at sea with a 10mm shaft at 8mt?”

I can’t wait to see that footage!
Yes, I agree that the butt plate is amazing looking.
What I actually like about that kind of trigger guard is that apart from the depression for the fingers, is that it allows you a bit more freedom in moving your hand up on the handle. Well, up the point where your middle finger will sit behind the trigger and block it. But it's actually OK to have the index/trigger finger overlap the middle finger height wise when extended around the trigger. But too many handles - especially on airguns - have the trigger guard so low that's it's really hard to lift the hand up the handle. I think I will adopt this idea on my next handle

I might be wrong but I feel like I saw something about them saying they would/could customize the grip? So, maybe you measure your hand and send them some measurements and they place the grooves accordingly?

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 09-24-2019 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:48 AM   #38
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Re: Briante spearguns

Does anyone know exactly what triggers they are using?
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Old 09-24-2019, 07:54 AM   #39
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Re: Briante spearguns

Cutting away part of the trigger guard is common these days with handguns for the same reason.
He used to use Ermes sub dr triggers now he ises a “modified Version “. Not sure what that means though.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:22 AM   #40
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Cutting away part of the trigger guard is common these days with handguns for the same reason.
Ah, I googled a bit and while I can't find any cutaways, I do see a lot of "undercuts" where the rear of the trigger guard sweeps up.

I did the same, quite extreme and accomplished the same as having it cut away on this modified airgun handle:



It's pretty clear to see how high my hand would be on this grip as the middle finger (the highest on the grip) is almost as high as the trigger finger.

The trick to maximizing the space for this to happen is to make a slot in the rear of the guard that the trigger can move into.


Or at the very least, place the guard so that the trigger almost touches it when it's fully pulled.

Kodama, sorry for the shoddy woodwork on that guard, I suck at working in wood:-(. But it's very, very thin veneer sandwiched with CF, so while it is not pretty, it is quite strong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kodama View Post
He used to use Ermes sub dr triggers now he ises a “modified Version “. Not sure what that means though.
Yeah, I wonder if that just means unbranded... Some day we will know
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:32 AM   #41
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Briante spearguns

You’re correct no cutaways but undercuts. It is always good to be accurate in our wording.

Last edited by kodama; 09-24-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:38 AM   #42
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Ah, I googled a bit and while I can't find any cutaways, I do see a lot of "undercuts" where the rear of the trigger guard sweeps up.

I did the same, quite extreme and accomplished the same as having it cut away on this modified airgun handle:



It's pretty clear to see how high my hand would be on this grip as the middle finger (the highest on the grip) is almost as high as the trigger finger.

The trick to maximizing the space for this to happen is to make a slot in the rear of the guard that the trigger can move into.


Or at the very least, place the guard so that the trigger almost touches it when it's fully pulled.

Kodama, sorry for the shoddy woodwork on that guard, I suck at working in wood:-(. But it's very, very thin veneer sandwiched with CF, so while it is not pretty, it is quite strong.



Yeah, I wonder if that just means unbranded... Some day we will know


Nice work on the trigger guard. It is all about functionality.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:45 AM   #43
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Hey Pete,
I think you might have missed a band.
I think it has one reverse band and three regulars - plus the optional kicker on top. So, I guess a 2-2.5 band gun not counting the kicker which might be a 0.5-0.75 band.

I spotted the extra band in post #26 and added it to the energy storage graph shown there. The guns will have wooden cores as too many screws going into them otherwise. On C4 guns the ends are solid so that is where you see any screws. The Briante guns are rather squared off in their appearance and look to be a bit of a paddle in the vertical view. That block under the barrel bump comes off, so the hardware there can be changed and the reel can be deleted.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:04 AM   #44
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Re: Briante spearguns

Ah, didn't see the #26 catch

There are a few good ways to put inserts into hollow core composites. Just takes a bit more work and might not be super cheap in terms of materials but I think we will see it come in a few years once competition stiffens up a bit.
I think Briante uses a wood core as it is the easiest, cheapest and most flexible approach for them for now. No shame in that, plenty others do as well.

Honestly, the use of composites in spearguns, C4 included, is still on a very simple stage. But that's mostly because spearguns actually do not benefit from being light, so there's no need to optimize layups for max strength while keeping it light. You can easily build as strong as you need with very basic composite techniques.
I can absolutely promise that if we took a C4, even one without sanding marks, to a pro composites technician they would not be blown away like most spearos are;-)
(And yes, I know that C4 supposedly makes/made swank CF bikes.)
Once you start looking very closely at pretty much any CF gun out there, you will see cosmetic defects and sometimes layup issues in tight corners or tricky geometrically areas that have been covered later with a blackened epoxy coat or fixed in other ways. You don't see this on a CF bike frame but that's because they tailor each piece of CF to the area it goes into and then use way higher compaction forces than the speargun builders are doing. I am not saying autoclaves and prepreg or 10-30 bar bladders are needed for spearguns because they most certainly are not (and supposedly autoclaved parts are no longer vastly superior to other techniques). I am just saying I have yet to see any CF product in the diving industry that truly blew me away or used truly advanced techniques. My pet peeve story is the fin manufacturer who said the patterned surface on the back side was there to help efficiency and mimic shark skin - all it was was the "stippled" surface the peel ply leaves behind which is normally used to make secondary bonding and gluing operations easier...

I actually think Gladiator Neven has got it right. Using the best features of both CF and wood and being completely transparent on how he does it. Milling out oversized holes and tracks in the wood stock, filling them with epoxy and then milling out ultra precise pockets for inserts, roller wheels, shaft track and trigger is as just a very smart way of doing it.

I agree on the paddle remarks on the Briante design but some will see that as just a very functional shape. I just tend to like the more organic shapes. Kinda like a Mustang vs. a Jag E-type thing.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 09-24-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:21 AM   #45
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Ah, didn't see the #26 catch

There are a few good ways to put inserts into hollow core composites. Just takes a bit more work and might not be super cheap in terms of materials but I think we will see it come in a few years once competition stiffens up a bit.
I think Briante uses a wood core as it is the easiest, cheapest and most flexible approach for them for now. No shame in that, plenty others do as well.

That said, the use of composites in spearguns, C4 included, is still on a very simple stage. But that's mostly because spearguns actually do not benefit from being light, so there's no need to optimize layups for max strength while keeping it light. You can easily build as strong as you need with very basic composite techniques.
I can absolutely promise that if we took a C4, even one without sanding marks, to a pro composites technician they would not be blown away like most spearos are;-)
(And yes, I know that C4 supposedly makes/made swank CF bikes.)

I agree on the paddle remarks but some will see that as just a very functional shape. I just tend to like the more organic shapes. Kinda like a Mustang vs. a Jag E-type thing.
I have gone over every inch of my "Urukay" and know how it is made, the use of carbon fiber there is to make it heavy and that is why they call it a Bluewater gun and can squirt up to 9 mm shafts out of it. The section in the middle portion of the gun is like a paddle to stop it jumping around with the shot, the big curvy side body helps it to swing with the long tapered front section lowering the tip drag when traversing it. The center of the gun is so fat that I can barely get my hand to grip it with my fingertips just curling over the edge of the side rails.
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