TBSC Winter Invitational 2007

[Screen Name]

I just talked to an individual who witnessed the circumstance firsthand.

He said that no cheating happened at the weighin.

My understanding is that they knew that they were late, and weighed their fish just to find out how they "would" have placed. The witness was adamant that no trophies, prizes, or placements were awarded to anyone who was late.

It's easy to see how this could be misunderstood by people. I believe in the integrity of the people involved on both sides and I hope that this misunderstanding gets resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

It was a good tournament and I thank TBSC for putting it together.

[jerry1000]

Originally Posted by hogsniper

Jerry, I'm not sure that you want to go down that road with the folks in this thread. There are people here that have been hardcore FRA supporters for a lot longer than you have been on Spearboard. I applaud your enthusiasm, but that meeting was not one that required a show of numbers. By the way, can you post your speech from the hearing, I'm interested to hear your position. Oh yeah, just so you know, the tournament raised about $800 for the FRA, and Denny was in attendance.

i did not speak as for denny summed it up,and i support what the fra is doing.and i spoke with denny saturday an asked him the same question ,where was everybody ?? i guess ill just keep my mouth shut...

[fizisition]

Originally Posted by hogsniper

Jerry, I'm not sure that you want to go down that road with the folks in this thread. There are people here that have been hardcore FRA supporters for a lot longer than you have been on Spearboard. I applaud your enthusiasm, but that meeting was not one that required a show of numbers. By the way, can you post your speech from the hearing, I'm interested to hear your position. Oh yeah, just so you know, the tournament raised about $800 for the FRA, and Denny was in attendance.

What's intersting is that, in fact, the tournament did more good than 75 people showing up at the meeting would. It raised money for the FRA(Denny) to be able to attend the meetings that are 100% necessary to our goal.

[hogsniper]

John,
We missed you at the weighin, but you guys hauled in some nice fish.

[jfjf]

Originally Posted by Screen Name

I just talked to an individual who witnessed the circumstance firsthand.

He said that no cheating happened at the weighin.

My understanding is that they knew that they were late, and weighed their fish just to find out how they "would" have placed. The witness was adamant that no trophies, prizes, or placements were awarded to anyone who was late.

It's easy to see how this could be misunderstood by people. I believe in the integrity of the people involved on both sides and I hope that this misunderstanding gets resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

It was a good tournament and I thank TBSC for putting it together.

So is that true? I didn't participate in the tournament, but this little "detail" would make a huge difference to me if I had.

Also for once, I agree with Brett and disagree with Kevin... If I pay money to participate in a tournament as a competitor rather than as a volunteer, I think it is well within my rights to bitch and moan (both publically and privately) if I had a good reason to feel that someone had cheated, especially if it APPEARED that the management facilitated the questionable activity. "Shut up and drink beer, since you didn't perform volunteer work" might not sit so well with me, especially if I already drank a few beers. I think it is more than reasonable to expect that the management of any type of recreational contest such as this, makes a reasonable attempt to preclude cheating.

It sounds like a very unfortunate misunderstanding.

[blades1_99]

For our first tourney it went well to a point. As a tourney committe member I voluntered and paid to get our first tourney off the ground. I was insulted that Bill bentbroke the rules. It was a bad precedent.

John, I saw what happened because I went and got Mark to turn away people that showed up late but before Bill and Issac arrived with your fish. Since I was shooting and barely made it back (or so I thought because it seems I had an extra 8 minutes) I wanted a non-shooting judge to make the call. I wanted no reproach on me. Those people turned away were allowed to bring their fish back into line because of those actions.

I broke the speed record for Bunce's Pass to make sure we made it back in time. Not making back in time for the '06 Southern Open taught me that lesson. How much ribbing have I taken for running out of gas? One of my shooters had to piss from about 10 miles out. I wouldn't stop from him. We had 12 minutes to spare. We even gutted our fish in line.

This is about doing what was/is right. That wasn't right. We will do it better next time. Hopefully shooters here will allow us this faux pas.

[SpearMax]

Welcome to Spearboard blades1_99! Thanks for contributing to making the tournament successful!

[Screen Name]

Originally Posted by blades1_99

John, I saw what happened because I went and got Mark to turn away people that showed up late but before Bill and Issac arrived with your fish.

The fish in question were not "my fish". I am not even involved, beyond being a participant and passing on the information that I was given by credible, experienced sources. I am sure that when they are available, they will comment on this thread.

[bgbill]

Originally Posted by Screen Name

I just talked to an individual who witnessed the circumstance firsthand.

He said that no cheating happened at the weighin.

My understanding is that they knew that they were late, and weighed their fish just to find out how they "would" have placed. The witness was adamant that no trophies, prizes, or placements were awarded to anyone who was late.

It's easy to see how this could be misunderstood by people. I believe in the integrity of the people involved on both sides and I hope that this misunderstanding gets resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

It was a good tournament and I thank TBSC for putting it together.

John,

I saw what happened first hand, I was near the back of the line when Mark made two announcements about the line being closed, and I even looked at my cell phone to verify the time, after the line was shut down some people showed up, were told they were late, and then later Bill Hardman told them they could weigh their fish.

No one until now has mentioned anything about the late guys weighing their fish, just so they would know how they placed, if that was the case, an announcement during the weigh in should have been made, but no such announcement was made.

Clearly some guys who were late had their fish weighed, just because the fish didn't place high enough for a trophy does not excuse what happened.

[hogsniper]

Ray, Bill and Issac were with Dean and John from TBSC. "Screen Name" is actually John Schmidt-FSDA President and SPUC. He shot with Scott Hooker.

[bgbill]

Originally Posted by blades1_99

John, I saw what happened because I went and got Mark to turn away people that showed up late but before Bill and Issac arrived with your fish.

I am pretty certain that John Schmidt's fish were with Scott Hookers, and were clearly in line on time.

I was looking for John to pull up in his boat, because I was starting to get concerned and then Scott pulled up in his red truck, and later while in line he apologized for driving like a maniac and cutting in front of some people on the way to the weigh in.

[Spear One]

[quote=jfjf]So is that true? I didn't participate in the tournament, but this little "detail" would make a huge difference to me if I had.

Originally Posted by jfjf

Also for once, I agree with Brett and disagree with Kevin... If I pay money to participate in a tournament as a competitor rather than as a volunteer, I think it is well within my rights to bitch and moan (both publically and privately) if I had a good reason to feel that someone had cheated, especially if it APPEARED that the management facilitated the questionable activity.

Fair enough! Yes, anyone who pays to enter these tournaments has every right to bitch and moan both publicly and privately for whatever reason they may choose. But at the end of the day, these are volunteers who put on these tournaments. Every tournament that I know of takes reasonable care to make sure blatant cheating does not occur. However, if someone decides to take advantage of these rules, in the end it falls on their conscience not the volunteers.

I have been involved with tournaments since the late 1980's, particurlarly the SPO & the SBO. I have seen many good folks who unselfishly volunteered their valuable time and money over the years to make these events special while never asking or expecting anything in return. They just did it because it needed to be done. However, even the heartiest of volunteer has a breaking point. The LAST thing a volunteer wants, expects, or needs, is someone getting in his face for something that may have gotten overlooked, someone made the wrong decision, or someone may have cheated.

For the most part, these are non profit tournaments run by non professional volunteers. Given the logistical issues involved with putting a tournament on, I think the volunteers do one hell of a job. It is completely unrealistic for anyone to expect these events to go off without a hitch. When things do happen, I think for the most part, the right decision gets made the majority of the time.

If I pay money to see a movie, I expect to see the movie. If I buy a product that comes with a warranty, I expect the company that made the product to stand behind the warranty. Why? Because these are businesses run by professionals. I think we owe our tournament volunteers a whole lot more lattitude. If we are not careful, there are not going to be any tournaments because we are not going to have any VOLUNTEERS to put them on.

[hogsniper]

Kevin, to followup with you from this morning, Chuck Schnur won the donated speargun yesterday off of his FRA raffle ticket. My ticket number was exactly 10 off of the winner. Thanks again.

[RichT]

Congratulations Bucket One for his first place finish. And congrats to Fizisition for his 2nd place finish.
How bout that... A SPUC and a Team Spearboarder in a 1-2 finish, both diving together on the same boat having fun. Just like it should be.
Of course SPUCS finished 3,4 and 5th also.

I was unable to participate in this tourny due to an injury but after a bottle of pain killer I was able to at least make it to the weigh in for the festivities.
The fish were far more plentiful than I would have guessed based on the weather forecast for that day.
It was a pretty good turnout as well, considering the forecast.

I thought the tournament went pretty well minus a hiccup or two.

As far as any controversy? Here is my take on it.
I agree that what happened should not have.
Im also sure that those involved will look back and agree that It probably wasnt the brightest idea to have your fish weighed "just to see how you would have done".
In fact... it was pretty stupid and Im sure it wont ever happen again untill looooong after everyone goes home.

During the chaos and confusion of a tournament, things can sometimes be taken or misinterpreted no matter how innocent.
Ive seen it many, many times before.
Its silly to think that anyone would purposefully try to have their fish slipped in after being disqualified.
Especially after 10-15 witnesses saw their fish disqualified along with several other coolers from other participants!
How do I know?? I was standing right there talking to several of the participants when the weighmaster came to the end of the line to tell them!

As far as I remember, those particiapnts in question picked last.

For anyone to suggest this tournament was "rigged" is ludicrous and I believe an appology is owed to all who won glass.

I hope some things were learned and TBSC can put on an even better tournament next year.

[bgbill]

Originally Posted by RichTaylor

As far as I remember, those particiapnts in question picked last.

Rich,

Prize pick was based on having your ticket called, it didn't matter if you shot in the tournament (as long as you were registered), weighed a fish or were even in line on time.

I know this as I had mine and Mikes (Mike was at his son's birthday party, some things are more important than diving) ticket, and Mikes ticket number got called, but mine did not.