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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 08-07-2017, 12:46 AM   #16
Ric.Fallu
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Re: Help with wood

Mate,

Your cover info indicates you come from Sydney. All you need to do is to walk into the nearest Bunnings and select a strip of Tasmanian Oak from the indoor timber section.

Its far superior to the timbers you mention:
- Its a lot cheaper.
- Tassy Oak has an optimal density (SG ~0.6+).
- Its very dimensionally stable.
- Nobody is looking over your shoulder, so you can sort through the entire rack to get the straightest stick with the straightest grain.

Tassy oak does have some drawbacks
- There tends to be a bit of tear-out when you plane it
- Its a little harder than teak, so if you want to make some pretty compound curves, you might need to sand a little more forcefully
- Its not an oily wood, so its better finished with epoxy or varnish.
But these are minor issues.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:35 AM   #17
spearq8
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Re: Help with wood

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Originally Posted by kavachi View Post
a bit off-thread, but as Majd has already chimed in on the topic.....carbon skin

I love the idea of having the strength, impact resistance, and stiffness with only negligible weight gain, and the carbon sleeves make sheathing relatively straightforward [the stock anyway, bit more work for muzzle, handle and loading pad] for the more uniform shaped stocks.

A lifetime of dealing with water ingress in composite surfboards, sailboards, and saturated wood boat built-ins though, I’m wary of carbon-epoxy-skinned wood in spearguns being susceptible to trapping water inside the encapsulating skin.

You only need one slightly slack thread, or a hairline crack in a corner somewhere for water to penetrate thru the carbon epoxy shell, and once water is in there, even with gun being stored out of water its impossible to get the inner wood core totally dry again. That trapped water just does not find its way out in one atmosphere of air as easily as it found its way in a couple of atmospheres of ocean, and it only takes a little bit of water trapped in there [think constant diving to 20 metres] and the gun's neutral buoyancy will be compromised.

Yes - if you have removable ballast you can compensate for this - but sooner or later the gun is going to get too heavy in the water to be fun anymore.

Trapped water will start rotting things out too, even with hardwood, tho thats prob not going to affect performance in the short term, unless it’s around threads, or causing delamination under the track, which would be a real bummer

Epoxy putty encased in carbon and epoxy not a problem, so not an issue with handles. But with a timber stock, or even so called ‘closed cell’ composite foams [LibTech’s proprietary foam surfboard core possible exception] it is absolutely critical that there is ZERO potential for water to breach the carbon epoxy skin. This adds a considerable layer of complexity for us backyarders looking at embracing the carbon revolution, and it IS a revolution, no doubt about it. Given the # hours required to backyard build a full blown bellied carbon skinned wood gun, I’d wanna get serious years out of it

Has anyone out there encountered issues with carbon skinned wood guns getting heavier? Is the foam used to core composite carbon guns dense enough for water ingress to not be a problem? Has anyone tried shaping a shooter from a slab of Majd’s ultralight Japanese epoxy putty? KISS principle in full effect out here, but the idea of shaping and glassing a gun exactly the same as I would a surfboard.....thatd be fun

I have yet to have a problem with any of my CF skinned wood guns, but I think the first one I did was maybe 4 years ago ... so who knows how this holds up after 10 years or so. But during the 4 years that gun has travelled around the world ... been left days at a time on an open boat in hot humid climates. Only problem I ever had was with some light corrosion on the mech and screws. I think if you do it properly the CF skin is going to last a lifetime. Remember that there is a full epoxy coat under the CF skin. Then you sand the epoxy properly ... clean it off and then put the CF skin and vacuum bag it. I think it is very important that your wood has an epoxy coat on it before putting the skin as raw wood might bubble out under vaccum and you probably would get voids between the CF and the wood. I also oversize drill out and seal every single hole where there will be a screw ... and after finishing the gun I drill again a pilot hole and insert the screw with epoxy dipped in it. No way water is coming through there. I have yet to see someone not drool over one of the CF skinned guns. Of course that first gun looks like crap now as every time it gets a scratch or ding ... I just mix up a little 5 min epoxy and fill in the hole or scratch .... so out of water when dry, it looks like it has been through hell as you can see the epoxy patches all over the place. But I never really care how my guns look like and I care more about how they shoot. Nothing I hate more on a boat than a guy who babies his gun and eyes every little scratch with horror. A speargun is a tool not an ornament! If I wanted it to look new again I would just light sand the entire stock and give it one or two layers of clear UV resistant epoxy coat ... it would look brand new!
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:52 PM   #18
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Re: Help with wood

thanks for the feedback Majd!

that 140-ish bandstretch Denton of yours, what does it weigh?

My 142 twin band made from Vitex build is 4kg [heavy!] but feels superb in the water, and i travel by sea not air so weight's not an issue.

made the gun for three bands and 170 x 8.5mm double flopper shaft, but with a little shaved off have found it sweet for the lighter 160 x 7.5mm single flopper shaft, and with twin 14.5mm bands at 4X range is pretty damn impressive, even dragging two wraps of 1.4mm cable
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:11 AM   #19
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Re: Help with wood

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Originally Posted by kavachi View Post
thanks for the feedback Majd!

that 140-ish bandstretch Denton of yours, what does it weigh?

My 142 twin band made from Vitex build is 4kg [heavy!] but feels superb in the water, and i travel by sea not air so weight's not an issue.

made the gun for three bands and 170 x 8.5mm double flopper shaft, but with a little shaved off have found it sweet for the lighter 160 x 7.5mm single flopper shaft, and with twin 14.5mm bands at 4X range is pretty damn impressive, even dragging two wraps of 1.4mm cable

That looks nice! The back of the trigger does look a little high ... did you check that it is perfectly parrallel to the track? Put the gun on a flat surface then put a level meter on the track and prop it up till the track is perfectly parralel ... then see if it matches the levelling of the track. If it is too high ... just groove out two sides for the trigger to go in. Check shaft to trigger seating ... you want the shaft to just barely make it into the mech with the absolute minimal clearance. If it is parralel, on your next build you could build the back of the gun up a little more so that the trigger can nest into the wood. The more wood you have back there the better.

If possible, take a picture of the gun with your hand holding it and pointing it. I want to see if your thumbridge has clearance and how the alignment is.
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Old 08-14-2017, 07:39 PM   #20
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Re: Help with wood

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That looks nice! The back of the trigger does look a little high ... did you check that it is perfectly parrallel to the track? Put the gun on a flat surface then put a level meter on the track and prop it up till the track is perfectly parralel ... then see if it matches the levelling of the track. If it is too high ... just groove out two sides for the trigger to go in. Check shaft to trigger seating ... you want the shaft to just barely make it into the mech with the absolute minimal clearance. If it is parralel, on your next build you could build the back of the gun up a little more so that the trigger can nest into the wood. The more wood you have back there the better. If possible, take a picture of the gun with your hand holding it and pointing it. I want to see if your thumbridge has clearance and how the alignment is.
thanks Majd! shaft and mech mate perfectly - just a bee's dick clearance between shaft tail and mech roof. the reason rear of stock isnt higher is I used table saw to cut track and ran stock thru both ways to get it nice and straight & even. next build i will have access to router for track and will be able to leave plenty of meat in top of rear stock.

Still mucking around with a couple of practice stocks to do integral handle a la Dr P, and also higher loading butt with better shaped V to make sighting easier on those looong shots

what weight is that twin band 140-ish Denton of yours?
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:01 AM   #21
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Re: Help with wood

Kavachi, that thing looks real nice. I like the honey coloring. 8.5lbs for 2 band gun shooting a 7.5mm shaft without a reel? Careful, Richard Simmons might get on your case.. Ofcourse I know that big girls need lovin too and they make for some sweet shooters, but man... if it was me showing a gun with those specs would I get an earful from the usual suspects.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:42 PM   #22
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Re: Help with wood

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Kavachi, that thing looks real nice. I like the honey coloring. 8.5lbs for 2 band gun shooting a 7.5mm shaft without a reel? Careful, Richard Simmons might get on your case.. Ofcourse I know that big girls need lovin too and they make for some sweet shooters, but man... if it was me showing a gun with those specs would I get an earful from the usual suspects.
true that
stock's from a particularly dense Vitex from mountainous weather coast [tree under significant wind stress with poor footing], chosen for extra mass to shoot that [relatively] heavy 8.5mm x 170 Hunt dbl offset flopper shaft and three hot bands.
I stupidly shot large GT which noodled that shaft, decided to try 7.5mm x 160 shaft on the gun, and was amazed at the range and penetration got with just two bands and lighter shaft. that extra mass really boosted efficiency, incl much less recoil than my previous two band rig. the flattened ovoid profile swings well, and as mentioned above, additional weight out of water isnt a problem for me.
So certainly not everyones cup of tea, but for me its extended what i can do with two bands
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:46 PM   #23
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Re: Help with wood

guessing spec grav of this stock is a tad north of 0.8. hope to get some decent scales so can work out exactly on next build
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:07 AM   #24
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Re: Help with wood

"that extra mass really boosted efficiency"

Interesting....

My read on this would be that Recoil is the great robber of both Range and Accuracy. I've made a few guns with similar specs. My guess is that if you are happy with a 19/64" (7.5mm) you would be most happy with a 5/16". This takes away a little from the heavy handedness of an 11/32" or 8.5mm.

There is a very significant reduction in Recoil switching from a heavier shaft to a lighter one. This in turn Robs less energy from the reaction allowing for a more efficient transfer. Similarly, you are dropping a band.

One thing I would suggest on that gun. That grip is nice to look at. But I can't help but think you would benefit from a Grit coating for those higher loads and heavier shafts. Is that smoothed grip at all slippery in your gloved hand? You could probably still maintain a nice look by scuffing that grip up with 60 grit brushing on a thin coat of Epoxy and then sprinkling some of that White sand on there.
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:48 AM   #25
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Re: Help with wood

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"
One thing I would suggest on that gun. That grip is nice to look at. But I can't help but think you would benefit from a Grit coating for those higher loads and heavier shafts. Is that smoothed grip at all slippery in your gloved hand? You could probably still maintain a nice look by scuffing that grip up with 60 grit brushing on a thin coat of Epoxy and then sprinkling some of that White sand on there.
havent got any epoxy here at all, so sandpaper and tung oil it is, but with 120# finish and these Hyflex 11-927 gloves grip is actually not bad, not razor sharp, but precise, and comfortable with the super mellow recoil on this rig

one day will get hold of some epoxy and carbon and go nuts
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:04 AM   #26
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Re: Help with wood

No Epoxy? Doesn't anyone surf on that rock?
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Old 08-17-2017, 03:38 PM   #27
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Re: Help with wood

polyester mate
surfed firewires for a few years but have gone back to polyester/PU boards cos love the feel. and the timber boards i shape are just oiled, Gmelina doesnt seal well.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:01 PM   #28
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Re: Help with wood

Nice gun.
If you will treat your gun with resin don't use polyester. Try to find epoxy. West System have Junior pack I think. Packing contains all that you will need.
It will be more then enough for one gun. Epoxy will go deeper into wood making composite layer. Your gun will be protected for years.
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