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Old 05-01-2007, 06:21 PM   #1
Red Tide
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Why does this happen?

Why do the bands sometimes get caught in the shooting line??
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:44 PM   #2
Bill McIntyre
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Re: Why does this happen?

I have a friend who was having that problem frequently and it was driving him nuts.

It turned out that one of the fins on the shaft was poorly welded, with a little notch at the base of the front end of the fin where it met the shaft. Also, his Spectra wishbones were of a type with a sort of loose weave jacket. So the wishbone was catching in that notch. We filed down the notch and fixed the problem.

Come to think of it, you said shooting line rather than wishbones, so maybe I answered the wrong question. But as I recall, when the shaft stopped, it seemed to be all tangled in the shooting line too, and it was hard to tell what had happened.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:50 PM   #3
kitefisherman
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Re: Why does this happen?

Maybe your crimp is catching the wishbone?
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:52 PM   #4
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Re: Why does this happen?

I don't know why, but this used to happen to me only on my 3 band wong muzzle. I doubt that it was the muzzles fault, but I have never had it happen with any of my other guns... let me know if you figure it out...
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:06 PM   #5
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Re: Why does this happen?

I've had this happen a couple times too on my Riffe euro only when I had a double wrap. I switched to a single now and haven't had it happen yet. I dont recall the shots that it did happen to me on but I would think that they would be close range shots, which leaves alot of extra shooting line in the area. Maybe some high speed cameras and a pool test would solve this....
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Old 05-01-2007, 08:03 PM   #6
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Re: Why does this happen?

Make sure the tag end of your crimp is on the opposite side of your shaft from the side which your line wraps over the muzzle...ie, if your tag end of the crimp to your shaft is on the left, the line runs down the right side of your shaft and goes over the muzzle on the right side. This keeps the crimp from catching on the shooting line and bands. I also taper the tag end of that crimped tag so that it is more streamlined. The french call this "clusterf#ck" a labolet(sp?). I missed a nice tuna in hatteras because of this at damn near point blank range. If you are talking about shooting with a reel and the bands tangling the line well after the shot, the only thing that has helped me w/ that is shortening the wishbones as much as possible.

Good luck
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:20 PM   #7
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Re: Why does this happen?

I have seen it happen on Riffe, Rabitech, Aimrite, Omer and Wong. It is definitley not a gun specific problem. I watched Cameron kiss his Master America good bye under an oil rig in LA. I watched Ritchie almost drown holding on to his Rabitech 130 with the bands caught in the shooting line with a Jack at 70 feet.
This past weekend I shot what would have been a tournament winning kingfish at the Key West Open. I made a perfect shot on this 60 plus pound fish. The bands got caught where the shooting line connects to the reel line swivel. The fish took off at warp speed when I was at 65 feet. I remember looking at the bands as they stretched out about 10 feet in front of me. Fortunatley the flopper bent backwards and the fish tore off. I had a death grip on my gun and things could have gotten ugly.
I have shot this gun close to 1,000 times and only had this problem a few times. This time it actually ment something to me, so I thought somebody would know the answer. Lets figure it out.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:25 PM   #8
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Re: Why does this happen?

I had this problem more when I ran the reel line through the eye of the line wrap near the muzzle, now I've stopped running it through that guide and it hasn't tangled since...could be coincidence though. I nearly lost my beloved Master Comp to the same shit, fortunately the fish holed up.

What about using a loop-loop connection reel line to shooting line rather than swivel to loop, might be more streamlined.
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Old 05-01-2007, 09:51 PM   #9
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Re: Why does this happen?

Here's my take, for what it's worth coming from someone with a hell of a lot less experience than you and the rest of the guys you mentioned having the problem.

Bill C. told me that he occasionally had problems with the shooting line getting caught in the muzzle of his euro gun. We have to shoot stainless cable here on the rigs, and he found that the answer for him was re-rigging the cable at the first sign of a kink.

I know that this doesn't address why your shooting line got tangled in the bands, but it does show how little it takes to cause a problem. My take on the situation is that the odds of a problem can be minimized by addressing all the small potential causes:

(1) Consider not routing the reel line through the line anchor.
(2) Make the wishbones as short as possible.
(3) If shooting cable, re-rig if kinked.
(4) Braid your cable connections and make the crimps as small and streamlined as possible.
(4) Replace frayed wishbones.
(5) Look for messed up fins, pins, etc.
(6) I'm sure there are more potential causes.

In short, pay very close attention to all the little details of rigging.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:19 PM   #10
KEYSKILLER
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Re: Why does this happen?

G.R-

it would not be fun if you came up with something on every drop.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:25 PM   #11
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Re: Why does this happen?

I have sheared cable by getting it tangled in the rest tab twice.I known I am pusy for using one.Both times I have been in the a shtload of fish and excited. I wish I could see WTF I did.
I would write it off that you have super human bottom scratching abilities and shoot 3 times as many fish in a day as everyone else.Even though your nasty wet suit rash may hide the S on you chest. Even if NASA designed a speargun sht would still tangle.Pare el ser un gatito y trate de él.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:04 PM   #12
Bill McIntyre
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Re: Why does this happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tide
The bands got caught where the shooting line connects to the reel line swivel.
That gives me an idea. Was the swivel right next to the reel, or was it out there somewhere in the wrap?

I don't run my reel line though the line anchor, and my swivel is right next to the reel. I would think that it would be impossible for the swivel to get into the bands during the shot as long as the shooting line is long enough so that no reel line is pulled off during the shot.

My reasons for not running the reel line have absolutely nothing to do with this problem, but I wonder if I have not been just accidentally lucky?

If the reel line runs through the line anchor, then the swivel has to be in front of the line anchor. And if its a bit more then right next to it, then it could swing around and be in the bands before any line was pulled off of the reel.

I almost always rig the length of the shooting line so that the swivel is right next to the reel, but a few times I have not wanted to use enough mono for one more full wrap, so the reel line has gone around the line anchor, and then the swivel is maybe half way back down toward the butt. Just one time I had the line tangle in the bands, and I couldn't figure out what happened. Now I wonder if it was on a gun where the swivel was not right next to the reel.

What is funny is that the one time it happened, I did hit a white sea bass, so I could have had the same problem that you did with the fish trying to take the gun away from me. Luckily, I happened to almost stone the fish, so after a brief struggle with me trying to get to the surface and the fish trying to take the gun away from me, it rolled over and let me win.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:11 AM   #13
Griswold
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Re: Why does this happen?

When I first started rig diving, I bought a riffe MT3 for myself and 3 of my buddies got the same guns. 3 out of the 4 muzzles have exploded while shooting in 3 years. I had blamed it on poor muzzle quality, but now think the problems is that the cable got caught in the bands and ripped the muzzles apart. This gun has one of the most open muzzle designs available (no small hole to go through like some euro guns), but riffe bands tend to have very long wishbones, which could be part of the problem in this case.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: Why does this happen?

GR...

I don't know why, but I can tell you what works for me to prevent it. I make sure that the conncection at the swivel is no more than six inches below the shooting guide. I never have this problem if I do that. I lost a jack on the first dive of the day years ago in the Bayport tournament that cost our team the championship for this reason. I had put new shooting lines on my guns, and they all were connected to the swivel about twelve inches below the line guide when wrapped. They tangled every shot. I shortened it and never again have had the problem.

Carl
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:06 AM   #15
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Re: Why does this happen?

Only time it happened to me was when I disconnected the cable to facilitate the easy removal of a twisted up AJ and managed reattach the cable through the bands..don't know how but I did.next dive ....nice cobia.....easy 8 foot shot...shaft stopped at 2 feet out the muzzle with a hellacious jerk....dis and re connected the cable and all was fine
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