Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing

Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing Post here to discuss regional action or issues about spearing on Florida's Gulfcoast.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-09-2020, 07:29 AM   #1
fishkilla
Slayographer
 
fishkilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: FL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,467
Send a message via AIM to fishkilla
The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkilla

i think there are multiple contributors to the collapse of the grouper fishery in the Gulf.

Red Tide

Overfishing

Loss of Habitat / Water Quality

i think the fisheries biologists and fishermen who have fished for years are willing to admit the gulf and for that matter the south atlantic grouper fishery is in a state of collapse. the gulf council and the NMFS do not want to admit how bad it is due to their incompetence. catch shares was suppose to keep our fisheries healthy but since 2015 it has been a steady and sharp decline in landings. i don't think the gulf can sustain such large scale recreational and commercial fishing any longer. at the current state of regulation there is no come back coming.


Originally Posted by Moose

When you say ďgrouper fisheryĒ you are painting with an extremely broad stroke and I couldnít disagree more. Gags have been on the upswing ever since the implementation of catch shares and TAC limits and aside from my extensive personal observations The NMFS agrees and has continued to expand recreational seasons even with the increase of the recreational fleet. Right now itís harder to find a piece of bottom without keeper gags than with so Iím not sure where you are coming from on this.

Red grouper on the other hand has been negatively impacted not by overfishing but by repetitive red tide events dating back to 2014. I would assume these may be landing numbers you are referring to. You also have to consider weather events like the multiple hurricanes that have impacted the GOM over the last five years during peak fishing seasons that also contribute to reduced landings for both recreational and commercial. I agree red grouper are in trouble and in need of additional restrictions but itís not a harvest issue but an environmental one.

Now letís talk about the east coast grouper fishery and how seasonal rally fishing has worked out. With only about 1/16th of the viable grouper habitat shelf the grouper stocks have plummeted to the point that trip limits have finally been implemented. Still, no limit of commercial trips taken and little to reliable catch data. Fishery managers have seriously dropped the ball on the east coast by not implementing a catch share program and the gag, red, and other shallow water grouper stocks have suffered from it. Catch shares brought the gag fishery back from the brink in the Gulf. It got rid of the part time sporty commercials that the South Atlantic fishery managers still allow.

The Gulf fishery management is certainly not perfect but is light years ahead of limited entry rally fishing and actually has a good record of protecting the fishery while still allowing reasonable access to both recreational and commercial users.


.
__________________
www.lookunderwater.com
fishkilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 08:16 AM   #2
fishkilla
Slayographer
 
fishkilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: FL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,467
Send a message via AIM to fishkilla
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Lets do the math. Arithmetic does not lie.

the only hard numbers we get are from the commercial industry the recreational estimates are at best disseminated from witch craft.


here is where i'm getting my data from https://portal.southeast.fisheries.n...wanceTable.pdf

let's start with gags

Commercial Landings

2010 - 35%
2011 - 74%
2012 - 92%
2013 - 81%
2014 - 70%
2015 - 57%
2016 - 97%
2017 - 52%
2018 - 52%
2019 - 56%

as of right now 2020 is on target to do about 50% of the TAC (total allowable catch)

when i get back from my trip i will go more into depth about these numbers and i will also share my catch decline and the decline of the lease price of Gag grouper allocation.

with the Gag grouper wholesale price around $6 to $7 a lb whole fish gutted, either there are not enough commercial fishermen catching Gag grouper or there are not enough Gag grouper to catch. i agree with the later.
__________________
www.lookunderwater.com
fishkilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 09:46 AM   #3
Gary H
gangsta' speargun pioneer
 
Gary H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fort Pierce, FL
Age: 64
Posts: 1,163
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Has the TAC been the same from 2010 - 2019? If not, the percentages don't paint an accurate picture.
__________________
When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.

Fishing is like sex, you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it.
Gary H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 10:01 AM   #4
fishkilla
Slayographer
 
fishkilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: FL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,467
Send a message via AIM to fishkilla
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

TAC has been the same since 2015
__________________
www.lookunderwater.com
fishkilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 07:30 PM   #5
captadam123
Registered User
 
captadam123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Largo Fl
Posts: 586
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

The gag fishery for us has been better and better every year. Hard to remember over the past 3 seasons when we didnt limit.
captadam123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 09:44 PM   #6
jfjf
.
 
jfjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 10,918
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

I don't really have an opinion, but you can't look at the percentage of the TAC landed without looking at the TAC Total allowable catch itself.

The TAC (in lbs) varied greatly over the time period tabulated. They would need to be examined in conjunction with each other to begin to understand the situation.
jfjf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 07:16 AM   #7
fishkilla
Slayographer
 
fishkilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: FL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,467
Send a message via AIM to fishkilla
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

i remember when we didn't have seasons and the daily bag limit was 5.
__________________
www.lookunderwater.com
fishkilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 07:31 AM   #8
fishkilla
Slayographer
 
fishkilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: FL
Age: 40
Posts: 2,467
Send a message via AIM to fishkilla
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Gag Commercial Landings Gutted Whole Weight in LBS

2010 - 496,826
2011 - 318,663
2012 - 523,138
2013 - 575,335
2014 - 586,362
2015 - 542,774
2016 - 910,996
2017 - 492,095
2018 - 492,934
2019 - 532,015

why would commercial fishermen leave half of the quota on the table for the past 3 years? we don't want to make a big paycheck? i can't shoot what i don't see.



.
__________________
www.lookunderwater.com
fishkilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 08:01 AM   #9
SEATUX
Registered User
 
SEATUX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Port Charlotte Fl
Age: 73
Posts: 2,349
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkilla View Post
Gag Commercial Landings Gutted Whole Weight in LBS

2010 - 496,826
2011 - 318,663
2012 - 523,138
2013 - 575,335
2014 - 586,362
2015 - 542,774
2016 - 910,996
2017 - 492,095
2018 - 492,934
2019 - 532,015

why would commercial fishermen leave half of the quota on the table for the past 3 years? we don't want to make a big paycheck? i can't shoot what i don't see.



.
Come On now...You believe all commercial fisherman accurately report there catch?
But we wont go there!
SEATUX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 08:33 AM   #10
Gary H
gangsta' speargun pioneer
 
Gary H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fort Pierce, FL
Age: 64
Posts: 1,163
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkilla View Post
Gag Commercial Landings Gutted Whole Weight in LBS

2010 - 496,826
2011 - 318,663
2012 - 523,138
2013 - 575,335
2014 - 586,362
2015 - 542,774
2016 - 910,996
2017 - 492,095
2018 - 492,934
2019 - 532,015

why would commercial fishermen leave half of the quota on the table for the past 3 years? we don't want to make a big paycheck? i can't shoot what i don't see.



.
The Gag Grouper numbers look consistent other than 2016.

I am not a commercial fisherman in the Gulf, so don't know the basic regulations, but what species are included in the TAC? Also, are Gag the primary species taken?
__________________
When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing.

Fishing is like sex, you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it.
Gary H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 11:56 PM   #11
kwyoungspear
Registered User
 
kwyoungspear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Michigan/Key West
Posts: 737
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkilla View Post
Gag Commercial Landings Gutted Whole Weight in LBS

2010 - 496,826
2011 - 318,663
2012 - 523,138
2013 - 575,335
2014 - 586,362
2015 - 542,774
2016 - 910,996
2017 - 492,095
2018 - 492,934
2019 - 532,015

why would commercial fishermen leave half of the quota on the table for the past 3 years? we don't want to make a big paycheck? i can't shoot what i don't see.



.
I don’t get it. You said in your original post that the grouper fisheries in collapsing and in a steady and sharp decline. The data your postings doesn’t support that.

I think there is a pretty simple answer to your question on why fisherman are only catching 50% of the TAC. as you stated, the TAC was raised in 2015, TAC is a made up number derived from a formula. Obviously the TAC is set too high.
__________________
kwyoungspear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2020, 05:17 AM   #12
100days-a-year
Seafood Sifu
 
100days-a-year's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jax Fla
Age: 57
Posts: 3,800
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Catch shares only concentrate the profits , they have nothing to do with the health of a fishery.Fisheries are best managed with spawning closures and TAC adjustments. Thankfully the commercial guys here on the Atlantic side are mostly not stupid enough to buy that catch shares line. There are fewer boats actually fishing on this side as well, hard to find anyone under 40 with a work ethic.
100days-a-year is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2020, 06:33 AM   #13
sharpshooter
Registered User
 
sharpshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: st. petersburg,fl.
Posts: 1,972
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Ben, you remember the gag limit of 5 per person per day. When, I started spearing it was 10 per person per day. Everything was open year round. Even back in The Holy- Spear It days we never thought of a trigger fish closed season. Thru the years its been less fish catch allowed and longer fish lengths with closed seasons. Back when I started. Everyone thought we'd never exhaust the fish supply. I had a Sitex paper machine and Loran C had recently come out after Loran A. Now a days you can just about see a shrimp walking on the bottom with the modern electronics. No fishing chip maps either. You burned the fuel and your time to find spots. We could fillet our fish on the boat and dump the guts on the last fishing spot to feed the reef fish. I'm just wondering when we'll have a limit and season on grunts.
sharpshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2020, 06:41 AM   #14
kmoose
Team Headhunter
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slowcala, FL
Age: 55
Posts: 4,060
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkilla View Post
with the Gag grouper wholesale price around $6 to $7 a lb whole fish gutted, either there are not enough commercial fishermen catching Gag grouper or there are not enough Gag grouper to catch. i agree with the later.
The math is simple. The number of commercial fishermen is steadily declining causing fewer trips. Less trips = less catch = quota price drops. With TAC remaining the same due to healthy stocks = less percentage caught due to less fishing.

If you are going to post your catch history as proof of declined gag stocks, make sure you include the number of trips Per year to divide it by as well as the number of working crew per trip and the number of days per trip. Accurate mathematical assumptions require all the factors of the equation.
__________________
The Moose is Loose !
"SUPER SPORTY"
kmoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2020, 02:26 PM   #15
kwyoungspear
Registered User
 
kwyoungspear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Michigan/Key West
Posts: 737
Re: The Collapse of the Gulf of Mexico Grouper Fishery

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100days-a-year View Post
Catch shares only concentrate the profits , they have nothing to do with the health of a fishery.Fisheries are best managed with spawning closures and TAC adjustments. Thankfully the commercial guys here on the Atlantic side are mostly not stupid enough to buy that catch shares line. There are fewer boats actually fishing on this side as well, hard to find anyone under 40 with a work ethic.
Agreed with the spawning closures.

I'm RIGHT HERE!!! lol how is the diving up there in July, September-early November? Those are the months I need to find somewhere else in the SA to dive.
__________________
kwyoungspear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com