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Old 06-19-2012, 04:05 PM   #16
chuam
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Re: Tsunami sent invasive species to US West Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
The thing being glossed over is while a species is invasive; there was really no 'Original species'. Everything is an evolution, or an invasive species that found a place in the order of things and set up shop permanently.
Before there were coconuts on Hawaii, there was nothing. They came from somewhere else. After a few dozen thousand years, many of the animals there that held on and flourished actually have been passed onto other places. Some of them displace a local where they land. Some coexist. Some do not survive and re-establish themselves.
While man certainly speeds up the process via shipping, it's not going to cause a mass extinction. It will cause a mass change of dominant species, but not extinction in the sense that nothing will survive.
In nature, there are 2 things: Winners, and losers. The ONLY thing on earth that has a hard time with this is humans, who feel they can somehow change this natural path.
In the case of the earthquake, it would have sent that stuff over whether it was a barge, or a dock........ or, if the land there had never been developed, the dock would have been trees and other vessels to carry stuff in the currents.
It's how Hawaii got planted in the first place.
I don't disgree. One of the main differences is the rate at which invasive species are being introduced.

There are a lot of physical barriers that kept most species in their geographic areas. Would there be drift from one area to the other? Sure but the amount was pretty small and the chances slim.

Now adays where an invasive species can hop a ride on a ship or airplane we run into a whole different ballgame. Historical drift would usually give the original inhabitants a chance to evolve against the invasive species. Today that is much less likely.

Take for example the grass carp from Asia. Since it is a freshwater species the chances it could have made it across the Pacific are slim to none. If it had the odds of a breeding pair making it are even more miniscule. Now take man, we bring them in to eat algae at fish farms and such. They escape, find a system devoid of any natural predators and start multiplying.

This is the issue with invasive species all over the world.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #17
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Re: Tsunami sent invasive species to US West Coast

But it is still a natural process as everything done by a natural species is natural. If humans are part of the next great extinction there will be no one to tell those carb they are inthe wrong place.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #18
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Re: Tsunami sent invasive species to US West Coast

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Originally Posted by benthosslayer View Post
"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.
"Rahm Emanuel"
I could have sworn that was a quote from obama... oh well...
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #19
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Re: Tsunami sent invasive species to US West Coast

Fish and other marine species are believed to have populated the Pacific islands by hitch hiking on debris from the Indo Pacific. Flotsam floating across the Pacific to the west coast of the Americas happens, but less frequently than island hopping through the Pacific island chains.
The open water between the Marquesas, the Hawaiian Islands to the Americas is referred to by ichthyologists as the East Pacific Barrier and this is why many fish species that occur in the indo Pacific, are not in the tropical Americas. It was along journey for them to survive.
As KMoose said, it could have been a coconut log or some other flotsam. It happens.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:29 AM   #20
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Re: Tsunami sent invasive species to US West Coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
The thing being glossed over is while a species is invasive; there was really no 'Original species'. Everything is an evolution, or an invasive species that found a place in the order of things and set up shop permanently.
Before there were coconuts on Hawaii, there was nothing. They came from somewhere else. After a few dozen thousand years, many of the animals there that held on and flourished actually have been passed onto other places. Some of them displace a local where they land. Some coexist. Some do not survive and re-establish themselves.
While man certainly speeds up the process via shipping, it's not going to cause a mass extinction. It will cause a mass change of dominant species, but not extinction in the sense that nothing will survive.
In nature, there are 2 things: Winners, and losers. The ONLY thing on earth that has a hard time with this is humans, who feel they can somehow change this natural path.
In the case of the earthquake, it would have sent that stuff over whether it was a barge, or a dock........ or, if the land there had never been developed, the dock would have been trees and other vessels to carry stuff in the currents.
It's how Hawaii got planted in the first place.
Breath of fresh air...nice to see someone combining solid science and common sense rather than parroting nonsensical BS they heard on NPR.
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