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Old 06-10-2017, 03:26 PM   #1
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Financial/Investments

I have been looking at Vangaurds 500 mutual funds.I dont have time to constantly watch the market.They have low fees too.Anyone try them or have a better idea for low /medium risk and return?
I buy gold/silver as a hedge when its priced right and I can get it below spot.So Im good on PMs.
Would eventually like to set my sons up with separate starter funds in a trust they cant waste.

Any ideas?
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:16 PM   #2
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Re: Financial/Investments

American Funds might be worthy of comparison.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:18 AM   #3
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Re: Financial/Investments

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...Any ideas?
I think any of the S&P 500 ETF tracking funds are good and in the very long haul are beating 95% of the managed mutual funds. That's why everyone loves ETF's lately. Vanguard changes it's fee and min purchase requirements alot as all the other funds (like iShares,etc) move requirements.

Tomorrow (6/12) is going to be a very pivotal day at the market's open. I have a handful items in my shopping cart sitting at the checkout counter. But I may put them back on the shelf if I don't like what I see in the 1st 10 mins of open. I'm hoping for a wider continued correction from friday's results. YMMV.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:13 AM   #4
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Re: Financial/Investments

Yeah, if you want to invest in something and never have to worry about it again, go for a market index fund.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:33 PM   #5
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Re: Financial/Investments

Thanks guys!Im going to do some more research but to be honest the market stuff puts me to sleep.I had a buddy that did commodities and went from average joe to super rich(350-400k a year)in a few short years.He was tied to his house computer and ticker till the market shut down everyday but couldnt unwind from the stress.Heart attacks in your 40s are a good sign your doing something wrong.Few other buddies day traded but lost their asses and their assets.
Im going to try a modified Dave Ramsey approach now.No large debts if any.Save in land,food,tools,firearms,PMs and on the end printed money and funds or bonds.
Cars,trucks,toys,pms are all bought cash or we dont get them!One bank card and one credit card and thats it!
Should be totally debt free in under two years.I wont be living lifestyles of the rich and famous but I wont have any bills but food and electric.That should free me up to hunt,fish,dive or whatever the hell I want to do within reason.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:05 PM   #6
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Re: Financial/Investments

Sounds like a good plan. I should clarify something - don't put any money into the stock market / stock funds that you will need to use in the short term (under say 5-10 years?). Stocks earn the most in the long run but the market is more volatile going up sometimes and down other times. You can't be emotional in the stock market and you don't want to be forced to liquidate shares that have taken a temporary down turn. Long term, though, you'll want the extra returns that stocks will earn you. Definitely for your sons I would recommend an S&P market index fund, which is fire and forget. Even Warren Buffett feels like indexes are the best way to go.

Some mutual fund companies offer funds that are managed in order to adjust the investment mix as you near your "retirement date" when you will want to start cashing out. How they work is you invest in, say, the 2030 fund. Most of your money is in stocks until you get within a certain range of your target date, at which point they shift money gradually into bonds, money markets, and other less volatile investments. That way, it's very unlikely that your portfolio is going to drop 50% in a crash just before you need to start withdrawing.

Investment options like index funds and target date funds allow you the freedom to avoid sitting at a computer all day watching tickers... And they keep you safe from yourself.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:39 PM   #7
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Re: Financial/Investments

At this time I will probably start with Vangaurd and add money monthly.I had done money market with American Express but the payout after 9/11 was abysmal so I put the money into land.
Biggest hurdle in life seems to be the house mortgage and vehicles.I own my(old but maintained) vehicles.Property should be paid in under 2 years.Its not my log house but its a roof over our heads.
Probably should stay out of gun shops and car shows for a while.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:51 PM   #8
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Good luck in finding any safe investment vehicle. MAJOR investment fund managers have been dropping like flies. Many of them giving the money back to their investors because nothing makes sense anymore. Free markets are totally gone. All the rules that used to apply are null and void due to the massive corruption. Fundamentals, tech analysis...all gone out the window. It's an upside down world. Everything I've ever read about investing is now defunct.
The only sure thing in the long run is real money, aka precious metals. Some say that crypto currencies are free markets but the action I've seen and the vulnerabilities due to hacking is quite scary.
Investment houses, from all my research, are a rip off. Good luck getting any of your money back when the market finally does crash. It's not a matter of 'if', just a matter of when. I'm very surprised that they've managed to prop up the markets for this long. It's ONLY because the central banks have been printing money out of thin air and buying stocks directly. It's such a SHAM. That's the reason I stay out of them. There's no telling when they'll pull the plug and wipe out Billions upon Billions of dollars when they do. You won't have a chance to get your investment out.
PM's in hand they can't steal though. Investment strategist say you should have at least 10 percent in PMs. I have a bit more. The rest is in dry powder or real commodities. The dollar will someday be worth crap but, IMO, it will be a gradual decline. Good luck, it's a crazy crazy world out there. We've been in a dollar bubble for quite some time. It WILL eventually bust.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:01 PM   #9
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Re: Financial/Investments

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Originally Posted by OBLIGATED View Post
Thanks guys!Im going to do some more research but to be honest the market stuff puts me to sleep.I had a buddy that did commodities and went from average joe to super rich(350-400k a year)in a few short years.He was tied to his house computer and ticker till the market shut down everyday but couldnt unwind from the stress.Heart attacks in your 40s are a good sign your doing something wrong.Few other buddies day traded but lost their asses and their assets.
Im going to try a modified Dave Ramsey approach now.No large debts if any.Save in land,food,tools,firearms,PMs and on the end printed money and funds or bonds.
Cars,trucks,toys,pms are all bought cash or we dont get them!One bank card and one credit card and thats it!
Should be totally debt free in under two years.I wont be living lifestyles of the rich and famous but I wont have any bills but food and electric.That should free me up to hunt,fish,dive or whatever the hell I want to do within reason.
All good advice. Debt free should be priority number one. ETF's are popular for good reason, but if you're not into being actively involved with the market you may want to consider a safer, less hands on approach like a fixed indexed annuity. You can't lose money and because of that, many (not all), often outperform the index they use. The key is to find the company offering the highest and most consistent cap. Your money is never invested in the market, instead it's safe and sound with the insurance company.

In simple terms they use an index, like the S&P 500, to determine your interest credit that year. So for example, if you're capped at 6% one year and the S&P 500 goes up 12%, you get 6% locked in. Sounds like a bad deal, until you consider when the index goes down 12%, the worst thing that happens is you get a zero interest credit. Your money and any previous interest earned are safe from losses. Never losing money is what allows them to be competitive and consequently popular for conservative investors.

There's also no fees or commissions paid out of your money and they receive all of the tax benefits (tax deferral) of ERISA accounts, like an IRA or 401(k) without contribution limitations. They are also judgement proof in some states like Florida and Texas. See OJ Simpson and Ken Lay of Enron.

The one potential negative, depending on the individual, is they are long term investments and while they allow penalty free withdrawals (usually 10% per year), they do have surrender charge schedules. Typically 5 to 10 years, starting at 10% and decreasing every year to zero.

Ultimately though, (IMO and the math doesn't lie) nothing outperforms smart real estate rental investments. Of course to make that work requires a lot of capital or cheap money and hard work and good deals.

Nevertheless, just a couple alternatives to consider and research if they meet your goals and needs. Everyone is different and has different risks and goals, your decision should align as close as possible to your risk tolerance.

Attached is a real world example.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:06 PM   #10
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Re: Financial/Investments

Duk,T,Mo,PM, Pep, JnJ sleep well and prosper my friend.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:58 PM   #11
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Re: Financial/Investments

I warrant this advice to be worth a hundred times what it cost you;

Stay out of the Wall Street Casino. Period. It's nothing more or less than a game designed to separate credulous people from their money. And it works very well. The only reason anyone should play is that they think they have an inside track on an underappreciated trend. This is possible, but of course we're talking about speculating, not investing.

Because interest rates are outrageously low, real estate is also significantly overvalued. However, if you can make the mortgage, you own something if you own rental real estate, commercial, or farm ground. In the case of stock you own- what???? You own some piece of some enterprise the original owners were smart enough to sell. Except, technically, you don't own it. Your broker owns it.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:35 PM   #12
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Re: Financial/Investments

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I warrant this advice to be worth a hundred times what it cost you;

Stay out of the Wall Street Casino. Period. It's nothing more or less than a game designed to separate credulous people from their money. And it works very well. The only reason anyone should play is that they think they have an inside track on an underappreciated trend. This is possible, but of course we're talking about speculating, not investing.

Because interest rates are outrageously low, real estate is also significantly overvalued. However, if you can make the mortgage, you own something if you own rental real estate, commercial, or farm ground. In the case of stock you own- what???? You own some piece of some enterprise the original owners were smart enough to sell. Except, technically, you don't own it. Your broker owns it.
Vangaurd has paid about 12% Annuities about half that.Money market and CDs suck right now.
Ill invest some but I wont be going crazy.My kids kennel partner plays the market but he is a multi millionaire and likes gambling too.Im on the other end of the financial food chain and cant play with a 1/2 million at a time to make most peoples yearly salary in a few weeks time.I dont know much about it except that I dont want to watch the market everyday and sweat bullets.I just want a modest return and set a little something up for my boys when I croak.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:38 PM   #13
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IMHO, if you want to pass anything on to your boys, consider doing anything but handing money over to the crooks on Wall Street.

You should listen to me, because I'm so smart that I pour concrete and build things for money.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:07 PM   #14
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Re: Financial/Investments

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Vangaurd has paid about 12% Annuities about half that.Money market and CDs suck right now.
Ill invest some but I wont be going crazy.My kids kennel partner plays the market but he is a multi millionaire and likes gambling too.Im on the other end of the financial food chain and cant play with a 1/2 million at a time to make most peoples yearly salary in a few weeks time.I dont know much about it except that I dont want to watch the market everyday and sweat bullets.I just want a modest return and set a little something up for my boys when I croak.
Insurance companies use the returns from investing your money in the market to get wealthy while paying you back a pittance when they cannot figure any way around the claim.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:30 PM   #15
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Re: Financial/Investments

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I warrant this advice to be worth a hundred times what it cost you;

Stay out of the Wall Street Casino. Period. It's nothing more or less than a game designed to separate credulous people from their money. And it works very well. The only reason anyone should play is that they think they have an inside track on an underappreciated trend. This is possible, but of course we're talking about speculating, not investing.

Because interest rates are outrageously low, real estate is also significantly overvalued. However, if you can make the mortgage, you own something if you own rental real estate, commercial, or farm ground. In the case of stock you own- what???? You own some piece of some enterprise the original owners were smart enough to sell. Except, technically, you don't own it. Your broker owns it.
Speculative investments like Microsoft can pay off better than a lotto ticket. I sometimes buy a little risky stuff with money I might otherwise throw away on lotto tickets.
There is a lot of unbelievable research goin on in the drug industry, and the ROI could be MSFT like. Programming your own immune system to target cancer cells is the goal. Progress is being made. I own some shares of KITE. If ithe company folds and goes tits up I don't get rich. Or maybe I do, but I'm not trading I'm waiting.
Companies with long histories of raising dividends and not missing dividend payouts are a lot safer that the Enron and Bernie Madoff get rich quick shysters.
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