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Old 06-27-2008, 01:56 PM   #46
Omerbrother7
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oto_gc View Post
listen keez, I think we all agree that free-for-all mass immigration is not the best thing for the country, it needs to be under control, shit cuban immigration isn't a big problem anymore, the problem is out west.

your first statement is pretty harsh and I take offense to it being that I came to this country illegally, was rescued and given a chance for a new start. You are wrong saying that good cubans are the exception and bad is the rule.

by the way, when I first got here, I was on the welfare/charity/goodwill circuit for a few months until I could get on my feet. Funny thing is that during the last ten years I have paid enough taxes to fund the lifetime welfare monies of a family.

what is wrong with speaking a second language? in most countries that is a requirement in school, now if you want to be ignorant and say you or anyone else born in this country should never speak anything but English, so be it.
I commend you on all of your hard work thus far. You, as an hard-working immigrant in this country, deserve the chance to be here. And, speaking a second language was really key in your success here.

I think the only thing that bothers people who were born here (at least in my opinion) are those who come here, bash our culture and ideals, and say how much they hate it. Then, when confronted with an argument, they speak of how great their country is and how America is pretty much shit. The only thing is, if your (speaking in general terms..not you, personally) country is so wonderful and such a land of opportunity, why are you here? And for many people, there is a fear of going back to suffer some sort of repercussion with their government.

And, as far as the language barrier...that's a sticky situation. I remember going to Costa Rica a couple of years ago on a trip; many people spoke english, but the national language was obviously spanish. Now, I spent 5 years in highschool learning spanish, and the many, many years I played soccer helped my learning as well. When I would talk to people (even if it was broken, and gramatically horrible) I would speak spanish. The people respected the fact I was trying to integrate myself in their culture.

It bothers me when people don't even TRY to learn the language here, and worse than that is when they are lazy, and don't work. You all would feel the same if a lazy American came into your country, poked at your culture and ideals and bashed your country. (Which, I know they do). Also, it must bother you when an American comes into your country flashing his money and thinks he's some sort of king.

So, even though Keezdiver's comment was a bit out of line, you can't help but to understand where he's coming from if you've lived here your whole life and were born here.

And, as far as comparing Biology with Accounting...you can't compare the two. To each his own. And YES, being a graduate student is as hard as working two jobs. I'm a Biology major, myself.

America was built on immigration, and the culture is made of many different ethnicities and views. It's what makes America great. So, we have to accept those who are just getting here, per se. But, if you're coming here...enjoy it, work hard, make a life for yourself and your family and do what you have to do...

..if not, please leave. There's a long line of others who would die at the same opportunity.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:03 PM   #47
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

On a happier note I'd like to report that our balsero friend George (previously Jorge) has come a long way from the time of his humble arrival on US soil. Today he is happily retired as one of the major stock holders of the Miami inner tube and rubber corporation. Sadly, he still doesn't speak a word of English..

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Old 06-27-2008, 02:11 PM   #48
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

stir stir stir the pot....stir stir stir the pot....all nite and day.


see what happens when nobody bitches about jewfish and the Gulf Council wanting to reduce grouper limits in the gulf!!!

be offended all you want guys....its my subjective views on a topic i see in action all the time.

and it's my right to say those things.

and unfortunatly....as i see it and i think has been proven several times in this discussion....it is hard to discuss this topic without bringing up stereotypes and generalization.

there are always exceptions and examples. i speak on what i see and hear, you speak on what you see and hear....rarely do they match.


"Us who live in and around Miami frequent the keys often and shoot fish and enjoy the resource just as you do."

funny though...if you ask any LEO down here, the majority of illegal fishing that they catch down here...are from the mainland. and those LE guys find it entertaining when their excuse for having a 5gal bucket of 4-8" long snapper on a bridge is "but i'm cuban, i no speak english, i did not know the law"

again...a stereotype of sorts...but it still illistrates alot of my point.

we have TONS of european visiters who come here to fish. and i highly doubt there are many of them collecting dozens of illegal fish under the excuse of "i'm czechoslovokian, i barely speak english, i did not know the rules"





"as a matter of fact without tourists and visitors the keys would be shit."

honestly, i think most people down here would agree that the keys would be WONDERFUL without tourism. the reefs would be healthier, and the general atmosphere would be more enjoyable.

although thats strictly opinion. and for the most part is another discussion altogether.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:12 PM   #49
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

^^^^^LOL that's awesome. Jorge is a great man.

We could never go more then 2months without the Cuban vs. "white ameriacan" thing coming up. Everyone needs to "chill" and stop passing judgement on others so fast.

Larry O M...
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:15 PM   #50
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

But, if you're coming here...enjoy it, work hard, make a life for yourself and your family and do what you have to do...

Omer, does this include the guy at subway who was having trouble put together a sandwich, because of his lack of english skills?
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:21 PM   #51
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omerbrother7 View Post
I commend you on all of your hard work thus far. You, as an hard-working immigrant in this country, deserve the chance to be here. And, speaking a second language was really key in your success here.

I think the only thing that bothers people who were born here (at least in my opinion) are those who come here, bash our culture and ideals, and say how much they hate it. Then, when confronted with an argument, they speak of how great their country is and how America is pretty much shit. The only thing is, if your (speaking in general terms..not you, personally) country is so wonderful and such a land of opportunity, why are you here? And for many people, there is a fear of going back to suffer some sort of repercussion with their government.

And, as far as the language barrier...that's a sticky situation. I remember going to Costa Rica a couple of years ago on a trip; many people spoke english, but the national language was obviously spanish. Now, I spent 5 years in highschool learning spanish, and the many, many years I played soccer helped my learning as well. When I would talk to people (even if it was broken, and gramatically horrible) I would speak spanish. The people respected the fact I was trying to integrate myself in their culture.

It bothers me when people don't even TRY to learn the language here, and worse than that is when they are lazy, and don't work. You all would feel the same if a lazy American came into your country, poked at your culture and ideals and bashed your country. (Which, I know they do). Also, it must bother you when an American comes into your country flashing his money and thinks he's some sort of king.

So, even though Keezdiver's comment was a bit out of line, you can't help but to understand where he's coming from if you've lived here your whole life and were born here.

And, as far as comparing Biology with Accounting...you can't compare the two. To each his own. And YES, being a graduate student is as hard as working two jobs. I'm a Biology major, myself.

America was built on immigration, and the culture is made of many different ethnicities and views. It's what makes America great. So, we have to accept those who are just getting here, per se. But, if you're coming here...enjoy it, work hard, make a life for yourself and your family and do what you have to do...

..if not, please leave. There's a long line of others who would die at the same opportunity.

I'm with you 100%, a lot of cubans in miami should try to learn the language, but it's hard cause they don't really need to do that to get by, it's kind of sad.

I'm the first to defend the US, I don't like bashing of the US by either born citizens or immigrants, like you said, if you don't like it, go live somewhere else.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:30 PM   #52
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by av001 View Post
But, if you're coming here...enjoy it, work hard, make a life for yourself and your family and do what you have to do...

Omer, does this include the guy at subway who was having trouble put together a sandwich, because of his lack of english skills?
haha, well I believe that the manager is at fault-hiring a person to work with the general public and can't speak the national language.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:33 PM   #53
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keezdiver View Post
stir stir stir the pot....stir stir stir the pot....all night and day.


See what happens when nobody bitches about jewfish and the Gulf Council wanting to reduce grouper limits in the gulf?

Be offended all you want guys....they're my subjective views on a topic I see in action all the time.

And it's my right to say those things.

And unfortunately....as I see it and I think has been proven several times in this discussion....it is hard to discuss this topic without bringing up stereotypes and generalization.

There are always exceptions and examples. I speak on what I see and hear, you speak on what you see and hear....rarely do they match.


"Us who live in and around Miami frequent the keys often and shoot fish and enjoy the resource just as you do."

Funny though...if you ask any LEO down here, the majority of illegal fishing that they catch down here...are from the mainland. and those LE guys find it entertaining when their excuse for having a 5gal bucket of 4-8" long snapper on a bridge is "but i'm cuban, i no speak english, i did not know the law"

again...a stereotype of sorts...but it still illustrates a lot of my point.

we have TONS of European visitors who come here to fish. And I highly doubt there are many of them collecting dozens of illegal fish under the excuse of "i'm Czechoslovakian, I barely speak English, I did not know the rules"





"as a matter of fact without tourists and visitors the keys would be shit."

Honestly, i think most people down here would agree that the keys would be WONDERFUL without tourism. The reefs would be healthier, and the general atmosphere would be more enjoyable.

Although thats strictly opinion. And for the most part is another discussion altogether.
Keez,

A "Puertorriqueño" has just corrected some of your grammar/spelling and went through the courtesy to underline it for your convenience. Just something I picked up from your wonderful country while there.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:10 PM   #54
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oto_gc View Post
I'm with you 100%, a lot of cubans in miami should try to learn the language, but it's hard cause they don't really need to do that to get by, it's kind of sad.
.
That is a very real issue in my opinion. It is my understanding that historically other populations of immigrants formed their own communities but they were also integrated into the larger society and were pretty much forced to learn english to get by economically, if not socially. Now, in some areas of the country, there is a critical mass of people forming non-english speaking communities and this negates the need to speak english. I agree that this is sad and could have significant negative consequences if the situation becomes more widespread.

Our government and education systems foster this situation by providing expensive "accomodations" for the spanish speaking people. I'm not sure how anyone can argue that it is not more efficient for all the citizens of a country to be able to communicate in a single common language. English is the language of technology, engineering and science and I think our country should put more emphasis on increasing the population's proficiency in english and decrease the resources directed at accomodating people who do not speak english, especially the children which, in my opinion should be compelled to master the language within the public education system.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:28 PM   #55
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keezdiver View Post
:but i get to do 300+ dives a year, dive areas that are off limits, attend conferences with other top scientists, contribute to the welfare of our resources, and in general do some pretty cool stuff.

marine biology and diving is how i really got to know my future wife (ugh...my fingers shudder at the typing of that word ).

i could have made $100K as an engineer or chemist, or as you describe a great living as a blue collar worker.

i chose not to.

but i worked damn hard to enjoy what i enjoy.
Gee, I wonder why the NFMS/FWC is having such a hard time coming up with good data on fish populations when their fish counters are arguing politically incorrect topics on the internet. Get back to work Jeff and quit wasting our tax dollars!!!!
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:44 PM   #56
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

It seems our cuban refugee has since climbed the ranks of subway and become a celebrity even.




Sorry I had to though.
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:12 PM   #57
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Its sad to read some of these posts. You guys are messed up. Keez you may be a biologist/educated man but some of your views are very questionable/sad. Sapingo
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:36 PM   #58
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

This thread is turning into an unhealthy plague and should be shut down immediately. As the son of Cuban immigrants, some of the posts on here have made my stomach cringe and I have forced myself to delete about five posts so far which I felt were inappropriate. We are here to discuss spearfishing and not demented/unfounded ideals on what Cuban immigrant's agendas are in this country.
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:26 PM   #59
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

I've sat back and watched this B/s go on. Now I have to say my piece.
Firstly, AV001 - Believe it or not the Keys can live without the tourists, sorry to burst your bubble. We have evolved and changed as tourists have become less appealing due to their attitutudes, demands and spending habits.
OTOGC
In AMERICA - English is a 1st language! And should always be.
Takowill - I care - Speak English! I work in construction and I will tell you that the "bilingual people" choose to speak spanish when they don't want Americans (white people as they condesendingly call us) to hear/understand what they say.

HP169 - Livi8ng here (USA) it's not our problem how it is "over there". This is the USA, we care how it is over here.
Point of information for ANYBODY from a forein country - IT IS EXTREMELEY INSULTING - when you make reference to where you came from as "my country"! You live here! Earn your living here! Have the freedoms of being here! Enjoy the benifits of being here!
THIS IS YOUR COUNTRY!
OMERBROTHER7 - You are on the money.
JFJF - We've bumped heads in the past, but you've sat back, analyzed, moderaterated and said a few things that reflect your education rather than emotion. Thank you.
Tyler Durden - Follow your Avatar - !st Rule Don't Talk.. You'll sound more intelligent.
Stallbaum - What have you done lately? Other than "poke into someone's thread?

I personally have no axes to grind. Immigrants from all over the world should be welcome to the USA as long as they are here with the idea that this is OUR (yours also when you get here) country.
Guys let's this place a better place for us and everybody who may come later.
 
Old 06-27-2008, 06:49 PM   #60
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Re: Fish ID: Yellowtail Snapper Look-A-Like.

Guys, Just think about what you guys are talking about. This is called Spearboard.

Why don't you guys just get along here in OUR country and go spearfishing?

Whos in??
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