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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 06-13-2018, 09:49 PM   #1
kingfisherflesh
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High Current Gun Suggestions

I have need for a "bluewater" gun (as far as range and penetration goes) but I am looking for something that is a bit easier to swing, and haul up and down on deeper dives.

Mainly targeting bluewater fish (dogtooth, etc) in the south pacific.

Currently I have a Rob Allen 120cm...not big enough.

And a Ulusub 155...maybe big enough, but a load in these conditions.

I was thinking of maybe looking into a roller gun to keep the gun short and compact...any thoughts and recommendations would be appreciated.

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Old 06-13-2018, 11:31 PM   #2
2fishin2
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

I have a couple Alemanni rollers that I have not had a chance to test....

I have a Roisub Demo 3 115cm roller gun that I have used and like. It shoots a 8.5mm shaft and kills big fish dead. Ive shot several dogtooth and big GT with it and am satisfied with its performance so far. I would however change the trigger mech when the new Ermes Sub one comes out. It uses a Pathos 2 handle and mech.

I also have and use an Abellan Albacore that I am satisfied with....same story have killed both dogtooth and GT with it with success.

Yesterday I was out and shot a couple fish, 20lb doggie and 30lb GT. Lucky for me they were small and was using my reef gun, 120cm AimRite with 7.5mm shaft. That's about the max size fish for a 120cm gun IMO. Sure you can kill larger fish but to get penetration and stopping power you need a more powerful and larger diameter shaft.

One problem with GT and dogtooth is they are so damn strong. Strongest in the ocean. Over the years I have learned the hard way that probably the most important thing for these fish is your flopper setup. Typical flopper pins are flattened with a hammer setup and these WILL give out with these fish. The key is having a flopper that is welded on the end and also staggered double floppers with increase your chances.


Best shafts....


Value: Spearcrafters from Fla. GR Tarr is a great retail supplier of them.


Performance: Vector Marine and Dean. You will pay more but, if you are willing they will not disappoint. He will custom make any shaft you want.

For power in a small package yes a roller gun is what you are looking for....the inverted/polyplast style guns. Many brands out there.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:18 AM   #3
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

There is a discussion going on about up to what size a classic roller setup gives you better performance a a double banded tradicional gun. The limit seems to be arround 120cm.

My suggestion would be to go with a cuttlefish shaped stock, high custom shaped handle (to absorb recoil better) and rear handle (just because I am used to euro guns being from Spain). That said, I think the Abellan Albacore could suit your needs well. You can even order it with a slip tip from factory!
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:21 PM   #4
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fishin2 View Post
I have a couple Alemanni rollers that I have not had a chance to test....

I have a Roisub Demo 3 115cm roller gun that I have used and like. It shoots a 8.5mm shaft and kills big fish dead. Ive shot several dogtooth and big GT with it and am satisfied with its performance so far. I would however change the trigger mech when the new Ermes Sub one comes out. It uses a Pathos 2 handle and mech.

I also have and use an Abellan Albacore that I am satisfied with....same story have killed both dogtooth and GT with it with success.

Yesterday I was out and shot a couple fish, 20lb doggie and 30lb GT. Lucky for me they were small and was using my reef gun, 120cm AimRite with 7.5mm shaft. That's about the max size fish for a 120cm gun IMO. Sure you can kill larger fish but to get penetration and stopping power you need a more powerful and larger diameter shaft.

One problem with GT and dogtooth is they are so damn strong. Strongest in the ocean. Over the years I have learned the hard way that probably the most important thing for these fish is your flopper setup. Typical flopper pins are flattened with a hammer setup and these WILL give out with these fish. The key is having a flopper that is welded on the end and also staggered double floppers with increase your chances.


Best shafts....


Value: Spearcrafters from Fla. GR Tarr is a great retail supplier of them.


Performance: Vector Marine and Dean. You will pay more but, if you are willing they will not disappoint. He will custom make any shaft you want.

For power in a small package yes a roller gun is what you are looking for....the inverted/polyplast style guns. Many brands out there.
Thanks for the post - I will look into these. I havent had a chance to shoot at a GT yet, but they are here so I am probably just diving in the wrong places. See lots of dogtooth - but really want something light and small to swing around on these high current reefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
There is a discussion going on about up to what size a classic roller setup gives you better performance a a double banded tradicional gun. The limit seems to be arround 120cm.

My suggestion would be to go with a cuttlefish shaped stock, high custom shaped handle (to absorb recoil better) and rear handle (just because I am used to euro guns being from Spain). That said, I think the Abellan Albacore could suit your needs well. You can even order it with a slip tip from factory!
Thanks!

Im thinking pipe/carbon roller - and preferably about 120cm.

If such a beast doesnt exist - Ill stick with that big ulusub and just hang in there until I become beast enough to manuever that thing around. It tracks pretty well. But theres definitely a difference hunting with that thing vs a pipe gun after a couple hours
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:36 AM   #5
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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Originally Posted by kingfisherflesh View Post
Im thinking pipe/carbon roller - and preferably about 120cm.
I posted yesterday but seems like my post is gone (?), weird!

I was suggesting you looked into the Salvimar Hero.

Thick aluminum oval shaped hidroformed barrel, inverted mechanism (rated to 350kg), anatomic handle (can be configured even for lefties), reel included (but not the line)

Available in 115, 125 and 135cms. 7,5mm shaft with sharkfins for those lengths.

Two 16mm bands.

And it is cheap (by US estandards!), at least here in Spain it can be had for less than 300.

I hope it helps!
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:46 PM   #6
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

Im looking at the handle modification posts and wondering if doing that to my Rob Allen 120 might be enough if I powered up the bands.

Some of those test videos have incredible results!
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:39 AM   #7
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

An aluminium Pathos Pro 120 with the plastic trigger ... just mod the handle with epoxy putty, then 2 x 14.5mm bands and a good 7mm or 7.5mm shaft @ around 150cm to 155cm shaft ... add a cone to it ... and you are good to go. This will all probably cost you less than $200 and is the best deal out there. I would keep an eye out in case a good SS trigger comes out as a future upgrade (there are none I would recommend at the moment).
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:23 AM   #8
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
An aluminium Pathos Pro 120 with the plastic trigger ... just mod the handle with epoxy putty, then 2 x 14.5mm bands and a good 7mm or 7.5mm shaft @ around 150cm to 155cm shaft ... add a cone to it ... and you are good to go. This will all probably cost you less than $200 and is the best deal out there. I would keep an eye out in case a good SS trigger comes out as a future upgrade (there are none I would recommend at the moment).
Thanks - cheapest I can find a 130 pathos pro is about $240...which is steep but I am considering it and definitely searching for these items and sales on a daily basis now.

I really appreciate all of your help spearq8
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:46 AM   #9
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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... I would keep an eye out in case a good SS trigger comes out as a future upgrade (there are none I would recommend at the moment).
Spearq8, I know that you are heavily involved with Ermes roller and double roller mechanisms... I do have an Ermes evo back roll installed in a homemade wood gun I put together a couple years ago. I like it.

However... as for drop in / replacement mechanisms.... what is your opinion about Meandros? I have another gun with a Meandros LS and it works great. I guess the looooong lever reduces the galling problem between trigger and lever (very low forces involved).

Last time I checked they had a replacement trigger for Pathos D1: https://www.spearfishingproducts.com...er-dynamic-pd/

Expensive from my point of view though....
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #10
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
Spearq8, I know that you are heavily involved with Ermes roller and double roller mechanisms... I do have an Ermes evo back roll installed in a homemade wood gun I put together a couple years ago. I like it.

However... as for drop in / replacement mechanisms.... what is your opinion about Meandros? I have another gun with a Meandros LS and it works great. I guess the looooong lever reduces the galling problem between trigger and lever (very low forces involved).

Last time I checked they had a replacement trigger for Pathos D1: https://www.spearfishingproducts.com...er-dynamic-pd/

Expensive from my point of view though....
I have two of those Meandros for dangelo 1 but I could never get accuracy with that setup and for a long time I had no clue why. I then suspected that the line release was snagging the line and tried a shot with only load on rest tab ... and sure enough the line would snag on the line release.

As for friction trigger not galling ... I don't think it is technically possible to not have galling with stainless steel sears. I can see and feel galling with even an 82cm gun. You can get less galling, but you cannot eliminate it. If you have a reel and you are using a line release that goes behind the shaft sear, then for sure you will get less galling than if you use a bungee ... as the bungee will push on the back of the shaft sear which causes more stress on the contact surfaces.

As for the Evo Back, it is good but again it is a friction trigger and the sears will gall. The back roller helps getting the shaft out smoothly but the frontal sears will gall and will hurt accuracy. I can actually see galling happening as I use a trigger in the pool. In the mildest cases my groups will start "walking" and will not stay in the same place. If I polish the sears, I will get about 20 good shots and then the groups start moving again. When I was getting really frustrated with this galling problem a few years back, I asked Mario if he could develop a similar trigger to the Evo Back (great smooth shaft release), but with a front roller that took care of the galling problem. He agreed if I would help him in the development and testing and thus is how the double roller trigger came about. I am not actually involved at all in selling those triggers, but I do think they are the best trigger on the market today. I think as more and more people try it out they will understand what I am talking about.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:47 PM   #11
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

Spearq8: Did you ever tried an actual Salvimar Hero mechanism? I remeber you telling it was useless but you were trying a different one.

As for the conditions Kingfisherflesh is referring, I would go with a 130 pneumatic with a 8 mm shaft. It packs a lot of punch with the total length of a 100 pipe gun. But that's a different animal...

Mikel: There is censure here. Sometimes they don't like when you recommend some brands. You'll get used to it. Not even in PM's. They are watching us!
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:32 PM   #12
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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Mikel: There is censure here. Sometimes they don't like when you recommend some brands. You'll get used to it. Not even in PM's. They are watching us!
Where's all the guys who rant in the politics forum to start harping the 1st and 4th Amendments when you need them?
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:21 AM   #13
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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Spearq8: Did you ever tried an actual Salvimar Hero mechanism? I remeber you telling it was useless but you were trying a different one.

As for the conditions Kingfisherflesh is referring, I would go with a 130 pneumatic with a 8 mm shaft. It packs a lot of punch with the total length of a 100 pipe gun. But that's a different animal...

Mikel: There is censure here. Sometimes they don't like when you recommend some brands. You'll get used to it. Not even in PM's. They are watching us!
No, I tried the handle from Salvimar for a gun called Metal which according to the local Salvimar dealer has the same roller trigger as the Salvimar Hero. After looking online I can see that the trigger looks identical to the Hero, but the internal sear looks like it has a slightly bigger roller. So it is not the same as the Metal version. Also the literature has the Metal version rated at 250kg but if you read the Hero version it says 350kg ... so obviously the Salvimar dealer was fed wrong information or he didn't know. The Metal version is rated 250kg but it will not work well even at 100kg load. There is obviously a defect in that design and that gun should be recalled. As for the Hero version, I will try to get one this summer when I am in Europe as it is not available locally. If the trigger problem is fixed that gun would certainly be interesting. The quality of the materials used is really some of the best I have seen in a pipe gun.
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:02 AM   #14
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

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Mikel: There is censure here. Sometimes they don't like when you recommend some brands. You'll get used to it. Not even in PM's. They are watching us!
Ooooops! Will try to keep it civil then...
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:44 AM   #15
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Re: High Current Gun Suggestions

The Ulusub 155 must be killer for wahoo.
It's much bigger than most guns being suggested here. If you had the budget, you could ask Jon about an Ulusub 140 or possibly sell the 155 to finance the 140. It'll be a similar feel but much much smaller with enough power to still get wahoo and other pelagics but still dive deep.
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