Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > Spearfishing Gear > All About Guns

All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2020, 01:14 PM   #121
Behslayer
Registered User
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Big Island
Posts: 5,039
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Man, you guys have beat this gun to death. Am I crazy or would using this gun with 2 x 14.5mm small ID bands create the band ramp for the upper band and be the right match? To me that is Why they have the Band Slot on the Reverse Angle. First Band Snugs Up, Second Band lays over.


I guess if it really bothers you, you could create a band raiser around the spot where that scuff mark is. Few ways to do that. Nicest would be to shape from a compression resistant foam and then glass over with carbon. Create a small Hourglass band raiser up there. Try to neutral out the weight or maybe gain buoyancy. Switch up to a 7.5mm Shaft. I think what you are reallllly hoping for is the Double hourglass.. the little flare behind the muzzle, the big flare infront the handle.
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2020, 03:22 PM   #122
Marco
Registered User
 
Marco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Miami, Florida
Age: 54
Posts: 2,676
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

My question is: Did you ever tried it in the water? With real fish? Didn't it shoot right and there is really the need to do all this modifications?
__________________
Marco

A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work
Marco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2020, 03:50 PM   #123
kodama
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 436
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

I am sure it shoots just fine in the water and will shoot a plenty of fish as it is. I have no doubt about it’s performance to shoot straight and hard out of the box.
It is just a hobby project to experiment with the maximum potential of the platform.

Also I am curious to see if placing the bands inline with the spear will increase performance noticeably. The original C4 designs always emphasized this design feature as something that would increase performance. Now one of its trademarks is abandoned. Maybe for good reason who knows? I am just curious to find out.

The decisive factor of catching fish will always remain the skills of the hunter not the speargun.
But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t play and tinker with our toys.
kodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2020, 03:58 PM   #124
Marco
Registered User
 
Marco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Miami, Florida
Age: 54
Posts: 2,676
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

If I'm not wrong, C4 was sold and Marco Bonfanti is not the owner anymore. So expect more changes to come...
__________________
Marco

A bad day fishing is ALWAYS better than a good day at work
Marco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2020, 04:33 PM   #125
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,647
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodama View Post
I am sure it shoots just fine in the water and will shoot a plenty of fish as it is. I have no doubt about it’s performance to shoot straight and hard out of the box.
It is just a hobby project to experiment with the maximum potential of the platform.

Also I am curious to see if placing the bands inline with the spear will increase performance noticeably. The original C4 designs always emphasized this design feature as something that would increase performance. Now one of its trademarks is abandoned. Maybe for good reason who knows? I am just curious to find out.

The decisive factor of catching fish will always remain the skills of the hunter not the speargun.
But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t play and tinker with our toys.
C4 originally used single strand bands mounted in a crossbar muzzle, same principle as socket mount bands that give in-line pull. Originally in euroguns which were all tube guns a vee shaped wire wishbone/bridle stood the band ferrules off the barrel to the sides with the gun cocked, but once you move to cord wishbones they drape against the barrel if it is not a slim tube. As mentioned before if you curve the beam type barrel down and away towards the muzzle on the sides of the stock the bands cannot drag on the barrel where it counts which is the last part of band travel during the shot. This coupled with the move to circular or loop bands.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 06:32 AM   #126
adzhoo
Registered User
 
adzhoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Panama
Posts: 139
Send a message via Skype™ to adzhoo
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco View Post
My question is: Did you ever tried it in the water? With real fish? Didn't it shoot right and there is really the need to do all this modifications?

Great points here.
adzhoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 07:04 PM   #127
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,647
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

A number of varying prototypes would have been evaluated, guns for which expensive molds are made to enable their mass production are unlikely to have been created after a first rush of blood to the head. And that would have included testing to iron out the bugs. Previous models had suffered slightly from the desire to be different with respect to muzzle arrangements once they ceased making the transverse bar muzzle models.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2020, 09:13 PM   #128
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 916
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodama View Post
I am sure it shoots just fine in the water and will shoot a plenty of fish as it is. I have no doubt about it’s performance to shoot straight and hard out of the box.
It is just a hobby project to experiment with the maximum potential of the platform.
And great point here, too.

Some people look at a finished product and think it's as good as it gets (or they are alright with it as it is) while a few others immediately start identifying areas of possible improvement, however small and it makes them tick. Kodama spent his money and it's in his blood to tinker so let him.

If people didn't tinker, builders included, nothing would progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Man, you guys have beat this gun to death. [...]
I don't see much of a difference between a good builder and someone with the skill and willingness to improve on (already good) store-bought products. It's very much the same frame of mind you'd need to do both and Kodama is not your ordinary hack so he will do it properly.
Also, I suspect many of the best builders started out as spearos buying guns they thought were the bee's knees and then realized they could modify and improve them. Only to then realize that they could actually build a whole gun better and then naturally, why not sell them.
(That said, I know Jon is not just saying Kodama shouldn't do this. Well, he does - and then as often is the case he offers up advice on how to do it, if you really need to;-))

Besides, Kodama stated long ago his intent to shoot it as stock, too. So, there's that...
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 05:58 AM   #129
Mikel_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bilbao (Spain)
Posts: 334
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodama View Post
...That happens when you rig a speargun after a few bears...
I strongly suggest you quit doing bears, in the long run it will be very bad for your health.

Now, regarding the band riser you are taking about. Keep in mind that whatever you ad in the muzzle area will make tracking more difficult. And in the end, whatever you end up gaining in power output (which seems to be the ultimate goal reducing friction and making them pull inline, yada yada yada....), may not give you any real advantage because you cannot line up your fish quick enough.

This is an 85cm gun. I use guns this length in two situations (actually it is 83cm stretch, frankengun), while fishing in the surf (browse "pesca submarina en la rompiente" in youtube to see what I mean) or when I expect short range shooting (hole hunting or murky water).

In the first situation, maneurability is key, the faster you can line up your fish, the better, therefore, the slimmer the muzzle, the better. Shots are taken at 2,5 or 3m at the very most. Single wrap is all you need.

In the second situation, you are shooting basically point blank. For small fish anything suffices. If you need uber penetration (grouper) and stopping power, go pneumatic. They are the best option for point blank shooting as the pack the most power in the shortest package. And the power reduction feature will help save many shafts.

Now the question... what kind of fishing you expect to be doing with this gun? Sometimes enough is enough...

Mikel

PD: I am also all for the DIY, modifications and improvements... but it is hard to for me to swallow tinkering a +500€ gun (let alone buying a 85cm stretch gun for that money!)
Mikel_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 06:06 AM   #130
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 916
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

I totally agree on the need for fast tracking. I find my Pathos 100 too slow sometimes when fast moving fish don’t wanna stop and play with me.
On that note, and yes, I know molds for these guys are expensive but they could have shaved off 4-5mm if height I they had made a version for 2 x 14mm bands for those that don’t like a single 18mm or whatever the max is this gun can take.
People may not think 5mm would make a difference but I reckon it would really help.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 09:29 AM   #131
kodama
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 436
New C4 Gladius speargun

The proof is in the pudding they say. So to take away all your doubt about real life performance here is last weekends catch.

DISCLAIMER
“No modifications were used while these fish were harmed.”


http://www.spearboard.com/attachment...1&d=1591713240



Here are some of my thoughts to make my intentions clear:
  • I never doubted that this speargun 'needs' modification, if you read the tread it would be clear that I never doubted it's performance.
  • If I could choose between time spend in the ocean or shooting guns inthe pool I would be in the ocean. Always!



Please note that C4 guns have a great history of being modified by their users. Here are some pictures to illustrate that. Rollers, inverted rollers, special Carbon Fibre work you name it. These things have been tinkered with for years and now that I own a couple of C4 guns I understand why. It is not that they don't work as they are sold but they are just ideal platforms to tinker with. The CF work is very good and design is very well thought through.



So why do I spend time trying to tinker with this gun. Not because I don't like it the way it is but just because I can. I enjoy doing it and along the way I learn a lot about speargun ballistics.

I have been inspired by the articles and work of Giorgio Dapiran and also by Spearq8 and Diving Gecko among others.



In this particular case I would like to investigate for myself if placing bands inline 'yada yada' will make a measurable difference and if so how much. Will it make a difference next time I go out to get diner? No certainly not! My hunting skills don't depend solemnly on a fancy carbon fibre gun, I can do the same with 120$ gun. Actually I have an MVD Predator 75 with the exact same dimensions which in my limited experience (with this particular platform) preforms almost equally well.



Regarding maneuverability I think that the modification I have in mind is not going to affect that in a perceivable way, but we will see and if I am wrong you will hear so as well.

Thank you all for your concerns and to question my approach it helps me to reassure wether I really want to invest time in this meaningless endeavor and it has fueled my motivation to continue as time allows because believe it or not I have a lot of other exciting things going on in my life.

Time for a bear now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Normandy8.6.20.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	110.9 KB
ID:	245588  

Last edited by kodama; 06-09-2020 at 11:31 AM.
kodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 09:38 AM   #132
kodama
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 436
New C4 Gladius speargun









For every C4 model ever produced modifications have been made. Why oh why do people waste their time doing that?

Last edited by kodama; 06-09-2020 at 03:40 PM.
kodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 04:23 PM   #133
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,647
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Most of those changes are to create a rollergun which C4 don't make themselves at this time. The modifications are a matter of degree, an example would be swapping the carby on my V8 or pulling the whole engine out and putting in another engine of larger displacement which would mean uprating the transmission as well and possibly the brakes.

You don't want to convey the impression that the gun must be modified to perform well, especially as some readers skimming these pages may only see what they want to see.

Contrary to some opinions some guns shoot OK straight out of the box.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 09:59 PM   #134
Behslayer
Registered User
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Big Island
Posts: 5,039
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for modifications.

The Muzzle on that gun has a reverse bandslot angle. This allows the first band to snug up high and the next band to be pulled over the top. My guess is 2 14.5mm bands or 14mm bands would lay more inline than one single 18mm.

If you want to use a band raiser, the best way is to shape out a Cuttle right behind the bands. Like a Cobra Hood. The thing is you don't want it to add too much weight. So, the Core needs to be a foam then covered with Carbon. Ofcourse C4 does incredible Carbon work, so you should do a great job to match the quality of the rest of the gun.
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 12:06 AM   #135
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 916
Re: New C4 Gladius speargun

I have mentioned this elsewhere, but you can actually make a putty that floats and is plenty strong. Epoxy + Chopped CF + Micro Balloons. The latter will lower the density substantially while the chopped CF will keep the strength.

Not saying this is what Kodama should do, just saying that foam is not the only solution.
Here are some pics of my uses for it so far:





And yes, you can literally make it lighter than water as these off-cuts show


I get that not everyone has the ingredients lying around, but if you are already doing composites work, this might be worth looking into.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com